FarmerJohn
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Sorry, I haven't voted yet.
POL WHY WE HATE/FEAR/DISTRUST TRUMP (and who we would vote for)
- Thread starter Dennis Olson
- Start date
-
- Tags
- hate trump
Sorry, I haven't voted yet.
"I don't like Trump and the more I listen to him the less I like him. He is smart...just like Obama. He surrounds himself with smart people that are loyal to him...just like Obama. He has 'tested the waters' and knows that Americans are fed up and also knows exactly what we want to hear....just like Obama. He is saying what he knows we want to hear...just as Obama did in his campaign. But in the end, if he becomes president, will any of us matter to him if a decision that is best for the country isn't best for Donald Trump? I guess we many find out and I sincerely hope my feelings about this man are wrong. Obama no longer worries about keeping up appearances. Something tells me the same will happen with Trump."
THIS^^^
I don't vote for people I don't trust. I don't vote for the "lesser of two evils" anymore. I cannot be bullied into voting for Trump or anyone else if I am not convinced it's the right thing for me to do.
THIS^^^
I don't vote for people I don't trust. I don't vote for the "lesser of two evils" anymore. I cannot be bullied into voting for Trump or anyone else if I am not convinced it's the right thing for me to do.
Last edited:
Oilpatch Hand
3-Bomb General, TB2K Army
Yeah...I've already dealt with that particular source some days ago. In the case of Donald Trump, OnTheIssues.org it is not terribly useful other than as a compilation of various quotations of statements he has made on various occasions. It's especially unhelpful in analyzing Trump's positions, since he has no voting record as a legislator against which his statements at various times can be matched or measured. In the case of someone who has an established public policy record (Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Bernie Sanders, etc.), OnTheIssues.org could be a useful barometer of a candidate's political stands. Trump has no such record, of course, and the absence of any such record leaves OnTheIssues.org with nearly zero utility in figuring out where Trump actually stands on any one issue.
So, in your intensive "research" effort, the one source you cite, one with which I have a passing level of familiarity, suffers from a fatal defect insofar as Donald Trump is concerned, yet you're relying on it as if it is actually an effective barometer of his position on the issues, when it isn't.
Frankly, I'm surprised that anyone who claims to have "researched" Trump's stand on public policy issues would rely so heavily on a single source, one which is fatally flawed with regard to one or more candidates covered thereby who have no public policy record. (I'd include Ben Carson in that group also...OTI.org is not going to cut it as an analytical tool for him either for the same reason...the only items OTI.org has to present for Carson are quotations from remarks he has made from time to time.)
So, having dispatched OTI.org as essentially useless in the case of Donald Trump, I know that you must have consulted other sources of information about Donald Trump in the course of your "research."
Please tell us what those other sources of data are.
So OPH, if I understand you correctly, you require a professional politiwhore to be the candidate, so you can "measure their history".
Is that a fair statement?
Is that a fair statement?
packyderms_wife
Neither here nor there.
Dennis, I'm so disappointed, your poll is set up so I can only vote once!
packyderms_wife
Neither here nor there.
I see you're an establishment voter.
If you want to know about Trumps history why don't you do a little research about his business contacts, contracts he's secured both here in the states and over seas for building hotels, casino's, resorts, golf courses, etc. It's not that hard.
Oilpatch Hand
3-Bomb General, TB2K Army
More accurately, if the candidate has a voting record, one can measure their present-day statements in light of their voting history.
I'm not sure I actually used the term "politiwhore," and no, I don't have any hard and fast "requirement" that a candidate have a legislative track record. But it's helpful if the candidate does have such a record.
packyderms_wife
Neither here nor there.
what about the paper he penned recently, it's in another thread here, about his stance on illegal immigration and what he would do to not only stop the flow but what he would do with the illegals here and their anchor babies???
packyderms_wife
Neither here nor there.
So you are wanting an establishment politician, ie a professional politician, a lifer, someone with no real working world experience. It's those people who got us into this mess in the first place. Have noticed how many of them are attorney's? Oh wait Obama is a community organizer.
Be Well
may all be well
Oilpatch Hand
3-Bomb General, TB2K Army
I see you're an establishment voter.
If you want to know about Trumps history why don't you do a little research about his business contacts, contracts he's secured both here in the states and over seas for building hotels, casino's, resorts, golf courses, etc. It's not that hard.
I myself wasn't interested in Trump's history. Besides...I'm already quite familiar with it.
Rather, I wanted to know what other sources of data Be Well consulted (other than OnTheIssues.org) in his/her "research" concerning Donald Trump's political stands.
After all, when you are researching a topic, you no doubt consult many different sources of information about that topic, in order to get the greatest amount of data before attempting to draw any conclusions. So would most experienced researchers.
In that vein, Be Well has made powerful claims about his/her research effort on Donald Trump and his stand on various issues, but has cited only one, OnTheIssues.org, which isn't useful in analyzing a candidate with no public policy record. All OTI.org can do is regurgitate quotes from such a candidate, and the candidate can always say "My views have evolved since then," or "I was misquoted there," or "That quote was taken out of context" when confronted by inconsistencies between his present and past statements. Where the candidate actually has a voting record, it's not nearly as easy to do that, and OTI.org can be useful in analyzing that type of candidate. Not so with Trump, obviously.
So, Be Well's research effort must have extended well beyond OnTheIssues.org. My question was: "What other sources did Be Well consult in his/her research on Donald Trump and his policy positions?"
OPH, "voting record" - are you talking about their voting history as a citizen, or a voting history as a member of elected office? Please be more specific.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Be Well
may all be well
Everything I can find, and I ordered his 2011 book, which I hope to pick up at the post office very soon and read. And if you refuse to believe statements or written word that Trump has written or stated over the years, then you have only your "feeeeelings" to go on. Or, you're the smartest person in the room and Know All and we are all fools.
mourningdove
Pura Vida in my garden
Scotto
Set Apart
I chose "I WILL NOT BE VOTING."
I'm sorry, but Saddam Hussein held "elections" too, and gee - he always won. What a coincidence.
I guess most people think "voting" for our POTUS is a real, actual thing? They don't think he is "groomed" or appointed? Bams is living proof of that.
They know WAY beforehand.
I'm sorry, but Saddam Hussein held "elections" too, and gee - he always won. What a coincidence.
I guess most people think "voting" for our POTUS is a real, actual thing? They don't think he is "groomed" or appointed? Bams is living proof of that.
They know WAY beforehand.
Attachments
What I find so disturbing is that a FULL THIRD of you responding to this poll will not be voting. If that trend holds, chances are very good that a dem will occupy the big chair at the end of election day. And those of you IN that third - why aren't you getting your guns and assaulting elected officials? Because that's exactly where your heads are at. Or do you lack the courage of your convictions...?
What I find so disturbing is that a FULL THIRD of you responding to this poll will not be voting. If that trend holds, chances are very good that a dem will occupy the big chair at the end of election day. And those of you IN that third - why aren't you getting your guns and assaulting elected officials? Because that's exactly where your heads are at. Or do you lack the courage of your convictions...?
Couldn't agree more Dennis. I think Bonhoeffer said it best when he said...“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”
Be Well
may all be well
What I find so disturbing is that a FULL THIRD of you responding to this poll will not be voting. If that trend holds, chances are very good that a dem will occupy the big chair at the end of election day. And those of you IN that third - why aren't you getting your guns and assaulting elected officials? Because that's exactly where your heads are at. Or do you lack the courage of your convictions...?
A poll that has all the candidates plus a "not voting" choice would more accurately show the membership's position on voting. Maybe could leave out the ones no one has voted for since they just take up empty space.
lojoma
Veteran Member
I hope when false conservative Donald (Rickles) Trump implodes (after all, his bombast about what HE will do is no different than our previous pen and phone wielder) that at least some of his followers are drawn to Cruz. Some liked it when Trump ejected a reporter who disagreed with him yesterday. Contrast this with the attempt of Ellen Page to punk Cruz at the Iowa State Fair on gay marriage. Cruz dismantled her arguments and shut her down without even burning the pork chop he was grilling. Than later praised freedom of speech! Those cheering for Trump may not love the cult of personality so much when it is turned against them, as always happens with xenophobes.
Buick Electra
Member of the Early Bird Club
I don't label Trump as 'conservative.' I guess I could label Trump as a 'RINO' but I choose to label him as he has been for most years of his life...a 'Democrat.' So, for the first time in my life, it looks like I'll be casting my vote for democrat Trump.
It would still be skewed because I assume that everyone who is FOR Trump will vote. These are the ones who WON'T. I'm no statistician, so I'm not sure of how those numbers gel out. There was a "who will you vote for" generic poll a few weeks ago, and Trump got something like 80% of the vote from TBers.
Rex Jackson
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Hilary is a polished pathological liar. She has been lying since she could talk. She learned by getting into law she could remain that way by learning loopholes. Her and her BF were from the same mold only Bill wanted to learn law to protect himself from the DEA as he was smuggling tons of cocaine across the boarder every year.
Hillary was first caught lying under oath along side some of the most famous cartles & traitors of all time. Cheney, Paulson, Rumsfeld, Rockerfeller, Kissinger, and Nixon. She was banned and fired while working on Watergate.
Just google "Hilary Wartergate". Don't forget to click "images: its all there
Hillary was first caught lying under oath along side some of the most famous cartles & traitors of all time. Cheney, Paulson, Rumsfeld, Rockerfeller, Kissinger, and Nixon. She was banned and fired while working on Watergate.
Just google "Hilary Wartergate". Don't forget to click "images: its all there
Be Well
may all be well
I see about the poll issue.
Some thoughts about the label "conservative". I don't think it really has much meaning any more. I stopped thinking I was a conservative a while ago. Plenty of "conservative" politicians are ...well, they hold all kinds of views. I prefer "Constitutionalist". And Trump, on the site On the Issues, comes out as a strong conservative.
I don't label Trump as 'conservative.' I guess I could label Trump as a 'RINO' but I choose to label him as he has been for most years of his life...a 'Democrat.' So, for the first time in my life, it looks like I'll be casting my vote for democrat Trump.
I don't think he has been a Dem most of his life. He's been a Dem, a Repub, a Reform Party member and unaffiliated.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Donald_Trump.htm
Some thoughts about the label "conservative". I don't think it really has much meaning any more. I stopped thinking I was a conservative a while ago. Plenty of "conservative" politicians are ...well, they hold all kinds of views. I prefer "Constitutionalist". And Trump, on the site On the Issues, comes out as a strong conservative.
I don't label Trump as 'conservative.' I guess I could label Trump as a 'RINO' but I choose to label him as he has been for most years of his life...a 'Democrat.' So, for the first time in my life, it looks like I'll be casting my vote for democrat Trump.
I don't think he has been a Dem most of his life. He's been a Dem, a Repub, a Reform Party member and unaffiliated.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Donald_Trump.htm
packyderms_wife
Neither here nor there.
Trump is more of a centrist and a capitalist.
Oilpatch Hand
3-Bomb General, TB2K Army
The candidate's voting record in an elected legislative body, if they served in one. That would be a matter of public record, whereas their voting record as Joe Citizen may not be, for the most part, except for their participation in primaries.
Scotto
Set Apart
Yup, good analogy there.
JDSeese
Veteran Member
Oilpatch Hand
3-Bomb General, TB2K Army
So the only source you have consulted and are willing to cite is the OnTheIssues.org website, which is, as we have seen, massively flawed as a measure of Donald Trump's stands on the issues. Thank you for firmly proving my point.
I need say little more, inasmuch as you have confirmed my suspicions about 1) Donald Trump, the most "Johnny-Come-Lately" of Northeastern neo-liberals, now magically converted to a latter-day conservative as of June, 2015, and 2) your research, which was considerably shallower than you first portrayed it.
But I will say I bit more.
For the record:
I don't hate or fear Donald Trump as a candidate. I don't particularly trust him, either. If I ultimately support him in the general election, however, it wouldn't be the first time I will have voted for somebody I didn't altogether trust. He's quite adept at handling the media and his competitors, and he has been putting on quite the political show so far. Nobody seems to have any idea how to deal with him. I'm enjoying watching him deal body blows to both the GOP establishment and the media. His campaign so far is a fascinating political reality program that dares the viewer to change the channel.
But over the 40 years I have observed The Donald through the media, there has been very little in any of his public statements on policy issues that makes me think he and I have anything in common politically or philosophically. Most of his past statements on policy issues over the past 40 years can be characterized as having a liberal orientation. He self-identified as a Democrat for most of his life, and had very little to do with GOP politics other than what may have been minimally necessary as far as his business interests may have been concerned. His social circles are comprised almost exclusively of people like himself, moneyed Northeastern liberals who have little in common with the average working Joe.
However, suddenly, in June, 2015, we are now to believe that he has become a rock-ribbed conservative concerned about illegal immigration and trade issues, although he had been strangely silent on illegal immigration for all of his 69 years.
Just because Donald Trump says something doesn't mean I'm obligated to buy it.
Just because Donald Trump pretends to be concerned about illegal immigration doesn't mean he actually is.
But he knows that a lot of people are concerned about it, and he knows that is THE paramount issue for many voters.
How better to attract these voters than to promise to do something about illegal immigration, an issue which was apparently of little, if any, concern to him for 69 years, until June, 2015, when he announced his candidacy for the Republican presidential nomination, after 69 years of studiously avoiding any involvement whatsoever in the Republican party?
Yeah...I'd say I have ample grounds for skepticism here.
And yeah...I'm surprised so few others here share that skepticism, given who we're talking about here.
Be Well
may all be well
I'm not going to bother reading any more. I specifically said that is NOT the only source, basically reading and listening to EVERYTHING I find, and his book from 2011 is next on my reading list.
And you are not a "skeptic", you are a nay-sayer. The idea that Trump is actually not concerned about immigration/border.... sheesh. I think you are so smart you've made it all around to the other side.....
Oilpatch Hand
3-Bomb General, TB2K Army
Yet you could not name any other source, which was pretty much the point. You couldn't even cite the title of his 2011 book, which you admit you haven't read, although it's purportedly on your reading list.
To be fair, I don't know what the title of Trump's 2011 book is, either, nor do I particularly care. But I hope you find your copy and enjoy reading it.
None of that obligates me to buy what Trump is selling without question or reservation. If you wish to subscribe to his newfound born-again conservative principles because you, for whatever reason, believe that he holds them in common with you, then be my guest.
I thought this thread was for people who didn't like or didn't trust Donald trump to talk about their views.
I think you are on the wrong thread.
Either that, or you are threatened by people who don't like/trust Trump.
If you are on this thread to play 'devils advocate' then learn some decent debating skills, otherwise you just come off as annoying.
Your all pervasive presence on this thread keeps the discussion from growing and getting interesting.
I am interested in why people like Donald and why they don't.
I know you like him, that fine.
Let the people who don't, state their reasons without being harrassed.
Be Well
may all be well
You want me to list every single article I"ve read and every single interview I"ve watched?
I think the title is Get Tough America, can't remember precisely, I ordered it about 2 weeks ago and haven't been to my PO box yet, it's 8 miles away and my one vehicle gets 18 mpg, is about to crap out at any moment, so I only go out when I have several errands to do.
You assert he has new-found conservative principles but have offered not one atom of evidence.
Any evidence any one else brings up you claim is biased or lies. Anything Trump has said you assume is a lie if it disagrees with your bias.
Your imagination rules your intelligence, and that is not a good thing, if one wishes to know the truth.
Be Well
may all be well
If you read Dennis' rules, this is like a TIO thread, with those rules. I am not threatened by people who don't like or trust Trump. I'd just like to see some rational debate, but there isn't any so far. I'm not "playing" anything, I never do. If you are annoyed, that's not my responsibility.
ETA: after seeing your additional comments, it seems that YOU are the one threatened, I'm harraassing? Stopping debate? People are so afraid that they won't post? Yikes... I'm just like a small chihuahua. I just want to see some REAL reasons why people don't like/trust Trump, all I see is "he's lying all the time when he sounds conservative", claims based on no evidence, or "gut feelings" based on nothing other than feelings. I'd like to see some actual reasons, I might even agree.
Rules for BOTH the LOVE TRUMP and HATE TRUMP threads are:
1) TIO rules of order. That is, almost anything goes except gratuitous profanity and direct trolling/threats against a member
2) Both sides are free to post on both threads
The link to each thread's opposite is in the OP of each thread.
ETA: Why TIO rules? Because political discussion can get heated. These rules allow people to do just that should they feel, um, so motivated...
1) TIO rules of order. That is, almost anything goes except gratuitous profanity and direct trolling/threats against a member
2) Both sides are free to post on both threads
The link to each thread's opposite is in the OP of each thread.
ETA: Why TIO rules? Because political discussion can get heated. These rules allow people to do just that should they feel, um, so motivated...
Oilpatch Hand
3-Bomb General, TB2K Army
Be Well said:
To be honest, I don't know that he has any conservative principles. All I know is that he is giving speeches that contain some conservative-sounding rhetoric, but which are at odds with the sum total of his political behavior for 69 years.
In fact, the last 69 years of his life spent as a northeastern liberal (ZERO GOP involvement heretofore, liberal positions on eminent domain, progressive taxation and single-payer medical systems, relative silence on illegal immigration until June, 2015, etc.) ARE the evidence that refutes the assumption that Trump is now a genuine conservative firebrand.
You see...I don't have to supply any evidence. Donald Trump has done that for me.
Now, it is possible, after nearly 70 years of northeastern liberalism, that Donald Trump now, at long last, has come to embrace conservative principles.
But it's only barely possible, in my estimation. Mr. Trump has a long way to go before he convinces me.
Be Well
may all be well
Umm. For the last several years, can't remember exact number, at least 2 election cycles, he has donation $$$ to R candidates and speechified and appear on their behalf at events. Maybe before that as well. Unless, of course, every single thing that comes out of his mouth or typed words is a lie...
Everything he has said since he ran for election about taxes would please anyone except those who want no taxes at all. The progressive rate for the wealthiest, while I can't remember the %, was less than half of what it is now. He said repeatedly he wants to ultra simplify and bring it down, has also mentioned flat tax, but prefers ultra low taxes for the middle class.
Since you say you have not read his book and don't plan to, since you claim everything he says that sounds conservative is a lie, I guess his book doesn't count? Do not yet have book in hand, but those who have read it state that he talks about immigration in it.
Did a short search, found summaries of his positions on immigration from his 2011 book, and quotes from On the Issues (a non-partisan site covering all candidates on many issues), quotes go back to 1999 and up.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Donald_Trump_Immigration.htm
We need strong borders; we need a wall
Trump knocked former Florida governor Jeb Bush, calling him "weak on immigration." Trump specifically mentioned a view Bush espoused in a 2014 Fox News interview that immigrants cross the U.S.-Mexico border as an "act of love."
"We need strong borders. We need a wall," Trump said, addressing his solutions to the immigration issue. "The king of building buildings, the king of building walls--none of them can build them like Donald Trump."
Source: CBS News on 2015 Conservative Political Action Conf. , Feb 27, 2015
Citizenship for illegal immigrants is a GOP suicide mission
Donald Trump said the Republican party will lose elections if it reforms the nation's entitlement programs and will hand Democrats 11 million votes if Congress grants citizenship to illegal immigrants, likening the reform efforts to a "suicide mission." "The fact is 11 million people will be voting Democratic. You can be out front. You can be the spearhead. You can do whatever you want to do, but every one of those 11 million people will be voting Democratic," he said. "It is just the way it works."
"You have to be very, very careful, because you could say that to a certain extent the odds aren't looking so great for Republicans, that you are on a suicide mission," he said. "You are just not going to get those votes."
Source: 2013 Conservative Political Action Conf. in Washington Times , Mar 15, 2013
351,000 illegal aliens are in our prisons; costing $1.1B
America's prisons house 351,000 criminal aliens who committed a crime after having already broken the law by entering American illegally. Making taxpayers pay for 351,000 criminals who should never have been here in the first place is ridiculous. The annual price tag to incarcerate these thugs is $1.1 billion. And get this: criminal aliens have an average of seven arrests. That's at least seven crimes committed against American citizens by each of these criminals who should never have been allowed to cross our borders.
One out of every three federal prison inmates is a Latino, and three quarters of these are here illegally.
Source: Time to Get Tough, by Donald Trump, p.136 , Dec 5, 2011
Anchor babies were NEVER the intent of the 14th Amendment
The root cause of all the welfare payments to illegal aliens is the so-called "anchor baby" phenomenon, which is when illegal immigrant mothers have a baby on American soil. The child automatically becomes an American citizen, Though this was NEVER the intention of the Fourteenth Amendment, which states, "All citizens born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the state wherein they reside." The clear purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment, ratified in 1868, three years after the end of the Civil War, was to guarantee full citizenship rights to now emancipated former slaves. It was not intended to guarantee untrammeled immigration to the United States.
Source: Time to Get Tough, by Donald Trump, p.140-141 , Dec 5, 2011
Invite foreigners graduating from college to stay in US
Our country's leaders are just so plan stupid. As an example, foreign students come over to our colleges, learn everything there is to learn about physics, finance, mathematics, and computers, and graduate with honors. They would love to stay in this country, but we don't allow them to. We immediately ship them back to their country to use all of the knowledge they learned at the best colleges in the United States back in their country rather than keep it here in ours.
When we have gifted people in this country we should cherish them and let them stay. But instead we fling our arms wide open to the lowlifes, the criminals, the people who have no intention to contribute to our country.
Wouldn't it be better if we invited foreign student graduating from our colleges to stay to build American companies, instead of foreign companies that will be wreaking havoc against Boeing, Caterpillar, and many other of our great American companies in the future?
Source: Time to Get Tough, by Donald Trump, p.145 , Dec 5, 2011
Triple-layered fence & Predator drones on Mexican border
I am impressed with the success of the double- and triple-layered fence in places like Yuma, Arizona. The wall there is a serious 20-foot wall. It has three walls separated by 75-yard "no man's lands" for border agents to zoom up and down in vehicles. It also has cameras, radio systems, radar, and pole-topped lights. After the triple-layered fence was installed, the 120-mile stretch of the US-Mexican border known as the Yuma sector experienced a 72 percent plunge in illegal immigrant apprehensions.
We need to be ready to build other kinds of fences, too. The point is that properly built walls work. We just need the political will to finish the job. And by the way, finishing the job will employ a lot of construction workers. Moreover, I call on Congress and the president to hire another 25,000 border patrol agents and give them the aerial equipment they need, such as Predator drones, to provide real-time aerial reconnaissance information to agents guarding the border wall.
Source: Time to Get Tough, by Donald Trump, p.146-147 , Dec 5, 2011
Control borders; even legal immigration should be difficult
America is experiencing serious social and economic difficulty with illegal immigrants who are flooding across our borders. We simply can’t absorb them. It is a scandal when America cannot control its own borders. A liberal policy of immigration may seem to reflect confidence and generosity. But our current laxness toward illegal immigration shows a recklessness and disregard for those who live here legally.
The majority of legal immigrants can often make significant contributions to our society because they have special skills and because they add to our nation’s cultural diversity. They come with the best of intentions. But legal immigrants do not and should not enter easily. It’s a long, costly, draining, and often frustrating experience-by design. I say to legal immigrants: Welcome and good luck.
It comes down to this: we must take care of our own people first. Our policy to people born elsewhere should be clear: Enter by the law, or leave.
Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.143-45 , Jul 2, 2000
Limit new immigration; focus on people already here
Trump was firm concerning restrictions in immigration. “I’m opposed to new people coming in,” he said. “We have to take care of the people who are here.”
Source: nytimes.com/library/politics , Dec 10, 1999
http://conservativetribune.com/trump-5-point-plan/
READ THIS: Donald Trump Has a 5-Point Immigration Plan That Every American Needs to See
- Donald Trump has made immigration one of the cornerstones of his run for the presidency and with good reason: Americans are fed up with our broken system and porous borders.
- While his critics charge that Trump doesn’t have a plan, they clearly haven’t read his book. In the 2011 tome “Time to Get Tough: Making America #1 Again,” Trump laid out a five-point plan to stop illegal immigration.
- Firstly, Trump would build a border fence. Trump said he was “impressed with the success of the double- and triple-layered fence in places like Yuma, Arizona,” with 75-foot “no-mans-land” areas where Border Patrol would operate.
- In addition, Trump said he would “hire another 25,000 border patrol agents and give them the aerial equipment they need, such as Predator drones, to provide real-time aerial reconnaissance information to agents guarding the border wall.”
- Secondly, he would enforce immigration law. While this should be a no-brainer, Obama’s “prosecutorial discretion” proves that it’s clearly something our government isn’t interested in doing.
- “This wholesale abdication of a president’s constitutional duties is as shocking as it is foolish,” Trump wrote of Obama’s actions on enforcing immigration law. “It’s political pandering of the worst kind.”
- Thirdly, Trump said there would be no more cozy detention centers.
- “The third thing we need to do is overturn Obama’s insane new ICE recommendations for illegal immigrant detention facilities,” Trump wrote.
- “That’s right, your government now requires resort-like accommodations – paid for by you, the American taxpayer – to reward the flood of people entering our country illegally. Obama has turned America into a laughingstock.”
- Fourthly, Trump would oppose the DREAM Act, which is structured so that illegals can often pay less money for college tuition than out-of-state U.S. citizens. Finally, he would make sure there were no future tuition breaks.
- Trump also talked about eliminating so-called “anchor baby” policies that allow children to get citizenship merely for being born in the United States, no matter what their parents’ legal status is.
- “The only other major country in the world that issues citizenship based on where one’s mother delivers her child is Canada,” Trump wrote. “The rest of the world bases citizenship on who the kid’s parents are, which is of course the only sane standard.”
- “The root cause of all the welfare payments to illegal aliens is the so-called ‘anchor baby’ phenomenon,” Trump added.
- “If a pregnant American mother is traveling to Egypt on business and goes into delivery, do we instantly declare her child an Egyptian? Of course not.” (H/T WND)
- Trump keeps on racking up the hits, especially when it comes to immigration. It’s little wonder that he’s pulled ahead of the Republican field — and unless the other frontrunners start addressing our illegal immigration problem, he’s likely to stay in the lead.
And - another summary of his position on Immigration, from his 2011 book.
http://bearingarms.com/trump-time-to-get-tough-on-illegal-immigration/
Trump: Time to get tough on illegal immigration
Posted by Neil McCabe on February 7, 2012 at 7:45 am
In his book “Time to Get Tough,” America’s most influential businessman wrote that one key to making America great again is to acknowledge and fix the epidemic of illegal immigration.
“Illegal immigration is a wrecking ball aimed at the U.S. Taxpayers. Washington needs to get tough and fight for “We the People,” not for the special interests who want cheap labor and a minority voting bloc,” said Donald J. Trump, who in addition to his far-flung real estate business interests is the host of the hit NBC TV shows “The Apprentice” and “Celebrity Apprentice.”
“Every year, taxpayers are getting stuck with a $113 billion bill to pay for the costs of illegal immigration,” he said.
“That’s a bill we can’t afford and wouldn’t have to pay if people in Washington did their job and upheld our nation’s jobs,” he said.
“I love America. I’m saddened by what I see happening to our country,” said the New Yorker, who toyed with the idea of running for president himself through 2011, but who endorsed former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney for president.
There is no need to write new laws, we need to enforce the laws we have on the books and treat those who violate the laws as what they are, he said.
“We shouldn’t want lawbreakers as citizens – and that what illegal immigrants are by definition: lawbreakers,” he said.
Trump said illegal immigrants and those help and encourage them take advantage of our natural sympathy for immigrants because we all have in our family roots people who came to America to make a better life for themselves and their families.
“Yes, America is a nation of immigrants, but that doesn’t mean we have to offer citizenship to everyone who crosses our border,” the billionaire said.
“Who wouldn’t want to come to the nation on earth? But, that obviously is crazy,” he said.
“What is not crazy is having an immigration policy where we decide which potential immigrants are entitled to citizenship, where we choose the best and most productive people who want to come here for that honor,” he said.
Trump said the focus should be on quality and what America has to gain.
“We should not let ourselves becomes the dumping ground for other countries’ undesirables,” he said.
“Instead, we should roll out the welcome mat only to those who can make our country better – and illegal immigrant criminals don’t do that,” he said.
There are many ways that illegal immigrants drain our energy and consumes our resources that we cannot use for ourselves, he said. One of the most insulting is the burden of illegal immigrants who break the law.
“Our prisons house 351,000 criminals who should not have be here in the first place,” he said.
“According to a report by the Government Accounting Office, the incarceration of criminal illegal immigrants costs the taxpayers $1.1 billion,” he said.
Another costly burden is the astronomical expense of welfare payments to illegals, he said.
“The root cause of all the welfare payments to illegal aliens is the so-called “anchor baby” phenomenon, which is when illegal immigrant mothers have a baby on American soil,” he said.
“The child automatically becomes an American citizen, though this was never the intention of the 14th Amendment, which states: ‘All citizens born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the state wherein they reside,’” he said.
Once again, our goodwill is used against us, he said.
“The clear purpose of the 14th Amendment, ratified in 1868, three years after the Civil War, was to guarantee full citizenship rights to now emancipated former slaves,” he said. “It was not intended to guarantee untrammeled immigration.”
No other country has such a stupid rule, said the mogul, who took control of his family’s real estate interests in 1971, when he renamed the company The Trump Organization from the name his father Fred Trump used, Elizabeth Trump & Son.
“If an American mother traveling to Egypt on business and goes into delivery, do we instantly declare her child an Egyptian? Of course not,” he said.
“But, that precisely what goes on every day in America: women who have zero connection to the United States cross the border, deliver a baby, and their kid magically becomes an American citizen eligible to receive all the rights and benefits of those who have lived, worked, and paid taxes in our country,” he said.
Trump said while he and others are working to solve the problem of immigration, it is shameful that President Barack Obama makes jokes like this one the president told at a 2011 immigration rally in El Paso, Texas.: “All the stuff they [Republicans] ask for, we’ve done,” “Maybe they want alligators in the moat! They’ll never be satisfied.”
Trump was direct: “Mr. President, you might think border deaths, narco-terrorists and waves of violent illegal criminals into America are a joke, but the people who live along the border and communities under siege do not. “
Obama’s program is a failed Leftist experiment and we need to get rid of him, Trump said.
“We need a president who will get tough, enforce our laws, protect our people, and pull wages up,” he said.
“Bottom line: living in America is the greatest blessing a person could ever receive. If people want to live and work here, they should bring something to the table, not just feasting off it,” he said.
I'm posting this in hopes that those not on the Trump band wagon can have an interesting discussion. I also admit that while posting my thoughts in the message below, I am wearing a big tin foil hat. In fact I even feel a bit silly bringing up some of the things I am about to say.
When I first watched Trump I took great joy in his unbridled mouth spewing forth all the things I wanted to say about those running the country. I was thrilled when he took on the pc police. I was on that Trump band wagon...heck I could have been the driver. Kind of like the early days of Obama! But now I am just sitting back wondering why? Why does he want to be president? I haven't seen any evidence that he has given a rat's rear end about people unless they could do something for him. He has even admitted that his donations are to gain favors later. So what does motivate the man?
I contend that it is all about Trump. He is motivated to line his pockets and gain power. Lets face it, the president is generally considered the most powerful person in the free world and in recent times their wealth and power increases dramatically even after they leave office. Trump knows all the players. He travels in those circles so he certainly isn't looking for a foot in the door.
It is pretty widely known that Trump has been a liberal and I would venture to say a progressive for decades. Whether his conservative conversion is legit or not, I can't say. But I suspect he has reinvented himself to appeal to the masses and in that regard he has done a fine job...again just like Obama.
Now he is advertising for a twitter and face book army to spread his message and he is warning that these people need to be ready to get ugly for the cause. While not quite the same, I do believe Obama has mentioned his own civilian police force. I gotta admit, Trump knows how to get what he wants and manipulate the situation in his favor. But I go back to why? The Trump groupies will say because he loves the country and wants to make it great again....but I just don't believe that.
Think about this (put on your tin foil hats first). The UN conference is coming up Sept 25 to put in place Agenda 2030. As a progressive, Trump fits right into that program...One World Order...global governance. What better way to position yourself to be king of the world than to be king of the USA first. Obama came along and set us up to be looking for ANYONE that would stand up for the little guy. Trump did his homework and found out what us pee ons wanted to hear and we are flocking to him like lemmings going to the cliff. He is using every single talking point that will suck us in. Getting the presidency is very important to him. And I think he wants the presidency because he sees it as a stepping stone to a more powerful position.
He is silencing the press with intimidation. His law suits silence his detractors with intimidation. He bullies people with his money. I shudder to think what he will do once in office. I suspect he will make Obama look like a grade school nurd when it comes to using the power of the office to get his way.
What do others think? Could it be that he is using the presidency as a stepping stone to bigger and better things where he can control the world and not just the United States. And yes, I know this idea is a bit out there. I just watch Trump and more and more I see a manipulative power hungry bully.
Willow
When I first watched Trump I took great joy in his unbridled mouth spewing forth all the things I wanted to say about those running the country. I was thrilled when he took on the pc police. I was on that Trump band wagon...heck I could have been the driver. Kind of like the early days of Obama! But now I am just sitting back wondering why? Why does he want to be president? I haven't seen any evidence that he has given a rat's rear end about people unless they could do something for him. He has even admitted that his donations are to gain favors later. So what does motivate the man?
I contend that it is all about Trump. He is motivated to line his pockets and gain power. Lets face it, the president is generally considered the most powerful person in the free world and in recent times their wealth and power increases dramatically even after they leave office. Trump knows all the players. He travels in those circles so he certainly isn't looking for a foot in the door.
It is pretty widely known that Trump has been a liberal and I would venture to say a progressive for decades. Whether his conservative conversion is legit or not, I can't say. But I suspect he has reinvented himself to appeal to the masses and in that regard he has done a fine job...again just like Obama.
Now he is advertising for a twitter and face book army to spread his message and he is warning that these people need to be ready to get ugly for the cause. While not quite the same, I do believe Obama has mentioned his own civilian police force. I gotta admit, Trump knows how to get what he wants and manipulate the situation in his favor. But I go back to why? The Trump groupies will say because he loves the country and wants to make it great again....but I just don't believe that.
Think about this (put on your tin foil hats first). The UN conference is coming up Sept 25 to put in place Agenda 2030. As a progressive, Trump fits right into that program...One World Order...global governance. What better way to position yourself to be king of the world than to be king of the USA first. Obama came along and set us up to be looking for ANYONE that would stand up for the little guy. Trump did his homework and found out what us pee ons wanted to hear and we are flocking to him like lemmings going to the cliff. He is using every single talking point that will suck us in. Getting the presidency is very important to him. And I think he wants the presidency because he sees it as a stepping stone to a more powerful position.
He is silencing the press with intimidation. His law suits silence his detractors with intimidation. He bullies people with his money. I shudder to think what he will do once in office. I suspect he will make Obama look like a grade school nurd when it comes to using the power of the office to get his way.
What do others think? Could it be that he is using the presidency as a stepping stone to bigger and better things where he can control the world and not just the United States. And yes, I know this idea is a bit out there. I just watch Trump and more and more I see a manipulative power hungry bully.
Willow