What would you do????

[cory]

Here's the issue we're knocking around, wonder what your thoughts are.

Glancing around, I notice that interest rates are rising, premium gas has just touched $3.00/gallon, real estate taxes are going up, there's a rumor of 70% electrical rate hikes, and the job market isn't so great.

I knew a guy who had a convenience store, like a 7-11 but with more refrigerator cases, he told me his summer electric bill was $3,500/month.

Looks like harder times are on the way for some.

I've shared this on WRP but don't think I mentioned it on TB2K, but after working many, many hours of uncompensated overtime and forfeiting 6 days of vacation, my wonderful employer booted my butt out a few months ago.

The good news is that I had been helping an old pal out, doing sub-contract work a few hours here and there. When I told him I had lost my job, he said, "Great! Does this mean I get you full time now?"

Things turned out OK for me but looking forward, I can see that it's gonna get tough for a lot of folk. It hasn't quite started yet so you have some time to pull things together.

Suppose the higher costs for energy, taxes, interest causes a recession and you lose you job, what is your plan-B?

I had been helping this guy, I call him "J", on and off for a couple years.

Do you have a line on something else and what is it? What's a good back stop?

 

[lynnie]

"a recession and you lose you job,"


We can't make it here in NJ-single family home- if hub loses good job. Even two jobs at low pay won't do it with the kids also paying rent IMO...either they are in school, or they owe 300/mth health insurance, school loan ( small), and car insurance. Maybe we could get by but I doubt it. Put all four boys in one room and rent another one out for 400/month?

I think plan B for most of the nation will be moving in with Mom and Dad, or another couple. House share; everybody works and chips in. Third world crowding.

We could afford a mobile home.....right now our house is worth 300,000 thanks to the bubble. But if things get that bad will anybody be buying?

 

[workingman]

"What's a good back stop?"

#1 you live in Dee Cee - get out NOW!

#2 - you are super skilled (mostly mainframe, government data, legacy?) there's work in any town USA.

#3 - If you have assetts saved/in markets, cash out and RENT, not buy a place in the country (West Va. Carolinas, Montana, etc. - but does have access to cable internet, DSL one has to be too close to a POP - do not know about satellite internet, but that would be even better if there's the bandwidth).

#4 - like the ole saying goes, if you live within 5 miles of a 7-11 you are toast!

#6 - If you are free (fired), repeat, get out of Washington Inc.

 

[cory]

I meant this as a "general problem".

I meant, what would you do, not what would you do if you were me.

I've already faced a "big one" this January when my wonderful employer turned on me. "Hey thanks for working all those unpaid hours of overtime, letting us take credit for the awards that the customers gave you, and forfeiting 6 days of your lavish 10 days/year of vacation; get your hairy behind out of here."

Each of us has a different situation. I got lucky when "J" put me on full time.

It was funny, the folks at the job-job were giving me pitying looks and the two guys who turned on me (I call them the idiot and the idiot's pet) were happily rubbing their hands together, "we lied to get rid of him but it was worth it, it's all ours now, every bit of it."

Uh-huh. Here, hold the tar baby for me.

"J" has me working full time at better money but more importantly, with people who are doing real work and are a joy to be around.

So it can work out but looking at the signs, gasoline, rents, the overall economy, I'm guessing one or two in ten here will face the Vortex this year.

When that happens, what's your plan-B.

I'm guessing that most folk have a plan-B and like me, have a back-up job or hobby-business, or something.

I wondered what you have for your plan-B.
-C

 

[workingman]

Plan B is still in the works - I'm screwing up by spending too much time on TB instead of being a working-man. too much information!

 

[sparkky]

I have a skilled trade, electrician, so I could always "freelance" for some cash. Also there is always Ebay if one happens to "have money to make money" and is knowledgable in a few certain areas.

 

[nharrold]

Hold on there, Cory, no need for a plan B, Bush says that everything is just hunky-dory....

Don't you believe him???

 

[momof23goats]

bush should come to michigan. My hubby is an electrician, and is laid off ,with aobut a zillion other ones. many people here are laid off, no work. so everything isn't ok, at all.

 

[Dazed]

bush should come to michigan. My hubby is an electrician, and is laid off ,with aobut a zillion other ones. many people here are laid off, no work. so everything isn't ok, at all.

Strange:

Here in Indiana, they are BEGGING for electricians....

 

[sparky1]

I'm an electrician in southern MO, and just went back to work after a 3 month layoff. Now, I'm about to be swamped in work for the next several months.

 

[Cardinal]

"What's a good back stop?"

#1 you live in Dee Cee - get out NOW!

#2 - you are super skilled (mostly mainframe, government data, legacy?) there's work in any town USA.

#3 - If you have assetts saved/in markets, cash out and RENT, not buy a place in the country (West Va. Carolinas, Montana, etc. - but does have access to cable internet, DSL one has to be too close to a POP - do not know about satellite internet, but that would be even better if there's the bandwidth).

#4 - like the ole saying goes, if you live within 5 miles of a 7-11 you are toast!

#6 - If you are free (fired), repeat, get out of Washington Inc.

Why do you say rent?

 

[Barry Natchitoches]

"a recession and you lose you job,"


We can't make it here in NJ-single family home- if hub loses good job. Even two jobs at low pay won't do it with the kids also paying rent IMO...either they are in school, or they owe 300/mth health insurance, school loan ( small), and car insurance. Maybe we could get by but I doubt it. Put all four boys in one room and rent another one out for 400/month?

I think plan B for most of the nation will be moving in with Mom and Dad, or another couple. House share; everybody works and chips in. Third world crowding.

We could afford a mobile home.....right now our house is worth 300,000 thanks to the bubble. But if things get that bad will anybody be buying?

Oh, goody.... We can all live like illegal aliens....

 

[cory]

What did you do during the hiatus???

I'm an electrician in southern MO, and just went back to work after a 3 month layoff. Now, I'm about to be swamped in work for the next several months.

but those 3 months and momof23goats' report suggests that being in trades isn't enough.

About 3 years ago, I ran out of contracts. I was out of work for a while and finally had to take a job-job at a reduced rate. (One problem with accepting a reduced rate is that idiots who earn more start thinking that they are worth more.)

Well, fast forward 3 years, during which I worked like a draughthorse, and when more idiots infested the department, they decided, "well, if he could do so much all by himself, we, the four of us can do so much more."

As this was also during a time when the company was floundering, they decided to force me out, ie take my share of the budget, and save themselves.

It really was like handing them the tar baby. I've been out there for 2 months and the production has fallen way off.

But that's not the question. Looks like this summer and fall will be rough going for the economy. If not, hey, we dodged another bullet.

If it is, what are your plans????

 

[Amazed]

We're close enough to retirement to use it as a plan B. We'd sell the big house and probably move to an area with a more reasonable cost of living. But right now business is hopping (medical research area) so we're ok. But the increases in energy costs is hitting everyone in the wallet not to mention the dang taxes.

 

[Ed]

Cory,

For three years previous to last July I worked for a ERP shop near Philly.
Biggest mistake I have ever made was leaving Kansas for that job.
They wrote slop code and were proud of their system. I told the VP
that their programming pratices needed serious improvement which
of course didn't go over well.

I'm now working for a large shop doing software testing. Not as much
fun as development, but still better than the PA job, even at a greatly
reduced pay rate.

I have someone who got my resume from the local university asking if
I'm available, so at least I have something to look forward to tomorrow
when I return their call.

I agree with the other poster in that getting out of DeeCee might be a
good idea. If I remember, you have IBM mainframe COBOL experience.
That is still an in demand skill set, usually with larger organizations.
I have seen demand for this skill set in some of the strangest places.

However if your people network is in VA and the DeeCee area moving
a great distance may not be the best idea.. My adventure in PA is a good example.

I wish you the best of luck. I feel like you will do well.

Ed

 

[cooter]

well cory

on this,
,the two guys who turned on me (I call them the idiot and the idiot's pet) were happily rubbing their hands together, "we lied to get rid of him but it was worth it, it's all ours now, every bit of it."

I hope you have pay back in store for these arseholes

for every action there is a opposite reaction

 

[cory]

Don't have to, cooter.

I hope you have pay back in store for these arseholes

for every action there is a opposite reaction

You're quoting a law of nature, cooter.

This is what's happening. They booted me out by lieing. OK, fine. As you say, a law of nature is that they'll get theirs.

Let's see, I get a better job, they get to wave their hands and try to make the magic work. Well, it doesn't work without the magician.

But back to the topic, suppose the cost of gasoline, electricity, deilvery charges and so on actually tank the economy. What do you, any of you do???

Here and on the WRP list, we like to think about disasters and riots but suppose it's worse than that... suppose the economy pulls back 20% and costs go up 20%.

Just kinda gradual like.

There you are, the boss man says, "sorry, but we're cutting hours. I'm taking a 20% salary cut and so are all the other salaried folk. We want to be fair. Unfortunately, we're laying off your entire division."

Then you go home and the electric bill is 70% higher. Your wife who is working part time says "Hon, I saw regular gas at $3.49 today."

That's the scenario.

What do you do??

I'm the king of tuna casserole and brewing coffee that I buy on sale at Safeway, but there's only so much that I can squeeze my budget.

Back 3 years I took a job-job at 2/3rds pay. Then this January, they booted my behind out. It happens.

My plan-B 3 years ago was to take a job-job at reduced pay. This time I was luckier and had a back-stop in place.

I think it would be prudent for folks to have a back stop. It might be a hobby that could earn money or a part-time job in the wings.

Bubba, the guy who moved west is doing jack-leg carpentry on the side. That's real smart. It's not for everyone but everyone should have a backstop.

I'd like to know what people are doing. I don't care why. Just what.

 

[cider]

What is the WRP list?
Cider

Edited to add: No, can't say we have a back up. We were farmers before dh went into automotive. I can't see going back to farming.

 

[Deena in GA]

We're in the situation now as my hubby got laid off last month. Fortunately he received a nice severance package and doesn't have to get a job immediately. Knowing that the layoff was coming, we stocked up even more than usual on food and other basic needs. Also put back as much money as possible. Plan B is to hopefully find another job. He does have an offer from a fast food company that he didn't even go looking for and if nothing better comes along, he'll take that. Any job is better than none to our way of thinking. At the same time, we're planting a bigger garden then ever, along with planting more fruit trees and planning to put up more food than ever. Basically we're cutting back on things and planning to take care of more things ourselves, especially our food. We are blessed in that we have no mortgage on our home.

 

[theoutlands]

I won't get laid off - I'm a commissions-sales guy. Which, of course, sux hind teat when budgets are pulling back hard and clients start cutting anywehere they can figure. Also, I put over 100 miles A DAY on a slow day. At the moment, I am staying really busy making deliveries to existing customers. However, one of my largest customers ( local hospital) replaced a significant number of printers with new models from a competitor - a move we found out about when they started installing the printers, because no one asked us to bid on a new system. So - that gives me an incentive to go out and spend MORE gas to find new customers (assuming I can) to provide to. I am also using evenings and weekends to build up the farm to the point we are either providing most of our food or we are generating income from farm goods to pay bills we can't barter away.

I'm also working on improving the house's energy efficiency and building a solar-power system to reduce the power bill. Our biggest Plan B is to heavily push ldyh's herbal products she makes, which we are working on doing, anyway.

So - that's a rough outline of our plan b.

 

[Wingie]

Plan B---
I am a registered nurse. I can work anywhere and get paid... it may not be good hours or good pay, but I can get a job anywhere as nurses are in short supply everywhere.

 

[gappedout]

I run my own company building websites and web apps...

I've got a bunch of clients, many of who will likely go under if the economy gets much worse... However, I also have a business in development that will grow if mass layoffs with severance packages become the norm...

Luckily, I've also got a couple of larger clients who would love to put me on the regular payroll right now...

One of these companies caters strictly to extremely wealthy clients, and is in the environmentally-friendly products market - I don't think that market will see as many bumps if the economy goes south...

Also have a job if I want one working as a web developer for a local online auction company that does well... If the economy goes south, their business will probably grow... The caveat with them is that they get paid in US dollars, though I'm sure they could start charging CDN if they have to...

Have a number of other businesses in development that could collectively pay the bills... Would mean some long hours to get things functioning though...

As plan D, I could work at my parents' retail store, provided it doesn't go down the tubes as well...

Plan E is to work for the hundreds of wealthy individuals who own cottages in the area (I use the term 'cottages' loosely - think $10 million dollar mansions on the water) as a painter, which I did during high school and college and still have contacts for...

Plan F is to work for a wealthy individual as a bodyguard - there are few around here who are licensed to own firearms, thus it is a valuable asset...

Have a couple of other things up my sleeve as well, depending on what the future may bring...

Good question Cory... Glad to hear you were able to thrive under pressure...

Edited to add: Also, have to note that what theoutlands said is important... There will NEVER not be a demand for commissioned sales people...

Also should have added: Plan G is to work as a guard for a farmer who can in turn pay me in food...

 

[prudentwatcher]

Well, my SO is a nurse working for the state (two years until retirement) and retired Army. Nurses can usually find something.

I work at several different things, trying not to put all my eggs in one basket:

1) office job, 730am-1230pm, 25 hours a week--been there three years, it's owned by friends, but it's a small company and the future depends on what they want to do

2) night job at the paper in the distribution dept--about 20 hours a week--been back for a year, worked there for 2 1/2 years before--could probably add another night or two, or work the later shift--that's tough with the morning job, but it could work

3) part time consulting work--don't really want to do a lot of this, but right now it helps pay for the health insurance--kind of hard to up the hours, depends on the clientele

4) plama donor, 2x week--$45 week in cash income, not taxable-been doing this for five years and make about $1800 a year

5) elections--I work the elections-three this year--city one was in March, the primaries in Sept and the regular election in Nov--for three days work and some training classes, I'll make about $450

6) rebates, coupons, super shopping, ebay, etc.---this is my main hobby area and I do pretty well, considering it is all tax free--I've been doing this for a number of years and figure that not counting great deals and prices, I save/make over $3000 a year (for 2 people)

7) have lots of preps (food for 2 years) and a small garden

I could live on one job, but I work two and use the extra money to pay off debt and to save. I just do my best to b e as flexible as possible. I don't put many miles on my car (daily job is 5 mile RT night job is 14 mile RT). We've done all we can to reduce the utility bills for summer and could use firewood for winter (this is Florida, after all). We could cut back a little more in certain areas, but I don't feel the need to cut off cable before baseball season is over or to cancel my $14.95 a month internet connection. If gas prices go too high, we won't go on vacation this year, even though we have the money saved up. I guess the key is to be creative and flexible.

 

[Freeholder]

My 'regular job' is only six or eight hours a week and pays about $8.00 per hour, so while it would hurt a bit to lose it, we'd manage. I'm going to enlarge the garden this year, am planting more fruit trees and such, am going to get some more animal feed going on our own place so I don't have to buy all of it (we have all the milk and eggs we can use, and some meat), and am working on things to sell from home (goat milk, soap, magazine articles and small books, and so on). Further paring back would see us parking one of our two elderly vehicles (one belongs to Grandma, the other is mine, both are paid for), and not paying the insurance on it. We'd also have to reduce trips to town. As it is, we buy a lot of our clothes at the thrift shops, and are generally pretty frugal. Of course, I just got back on-line after nearly a year off, and in a pinch we could cut that again. We have no mortgage, and are pretty careful with the utilities. Come decent weather the laundry all gets hung out on the line to dry. We have no credit cards or debt of any kind. You can get by on a pretty low income that way.

Kathleen

Edited to add: the reason I don't have a 'regular job' with full-time hours is because I'm full-time caretaker for my autistic daughter. It would cost all my paycheck to hire a babysitter for her (she's 26 now), so not much point in going out to work for someone else. For the little job I have, I leave her with Grandma, who is almost 93, or can take her with me.

 

[Caplock50]

Well, if things get that bad, I guess I'm just so much dead meat. I live on a fixed income of just over $900 S.S. a month. I can barely make the bills now. If they go up, well.... Plan B would be to lose the internet first. And if that don't do it, lose the phone. Gotta have the electricity for the refrigerator and water, so next, I'd quit using any lights. Go to bed with the sun and get up with the sun...or use my candles at night. I'd probably be doing a bit of illegal hunting to cut the grocery bill a bit also. After that? I have no idea. Save the last round for yourself, I guess.

 

[sirlancelot]

Hey Caplock50 at least you have your own house, I am renting so when things go belly up I will be homeless, the best I can hope for is martial law.

 

[Caplock50]

Sorry, Sirlancelot, but, I'm renting also. I wish I did own it, but, nope, just renting, like you.

 

[sirlancelot]

Hey Caplock I would say out of all the people that post here you would be my favorite, you remind me of my grandfather and great grandfather, they were gun slingers like you, your a peculiar breed for a modern age.

 

[Caplock50]

Yup! And that 'peculiar breed' is called a ...dinosaur.

 

[cory]

gappedout, prudentwatcher, etc.

I like the diversity. You have it handled.

For years, I tried to maintain 2 or 3 contracts.

Things kinda dried up around here in 2000-2001.

It looks like the energy thing is about to stall the economy. If it costs $3,500 for electricity for a 7-11 style store, then the 70+% increase will increase the monthly to almost $6,000.

That whack will appear about 2 months after the rate increase. It's enough to add a nickel to price of coffee, chips, and, uh, gasoline.

Which will fuel another round of inflation.

I'm guessing that cities will compress in from the fringes. The folks in the exurbs will get real tired of paying (18 gallons times $3.50) $63.00 to full up their Chevy Subbuba.

I know folk who drive into DeeCee from 70 miles out. That's 11 gallons a day to run a Sububa driving with a lead foot. 140 miles, 12 miles/gallon is 11.6 gallons.

That's $204/week for gas at $3.50/gallon. Even at 30 mpg, it comes out to over $80/week.

I "think" this will hit this summer. Gas might not hit $3.50, no way to know but it's a useful number to mull over.

The point is the options. What is your plan-B when costs ratchet up? If you're commissioned, what happens if sales drop. How much can you sell on eBay?

Do you run the summer without air conditioning? Two years ago, my central air went out and I got a window unit for my bedroom. It's very comfortable and costs a whole lot less to run that a whole house central system.

I found some 4 watt CFLs (same light as a 15 watt incandescent) at a swap meet. That'll be my primary lightsource.

This is about cutting expenses, increasing income, and developing back up plans.

 

[Trivium Pursuit]

Cory,

As you know from the WRP, I am downsizing my house. When, Lord willing, the dust settles and all is done, we will save about $325/month on the mortgage, new place vs. old. Still a 15 year mortgage. Second, as you know from the WRP, playing with mowers. Third, we are contemplating square foot gardening this year. Finally, we have small investment in a project to drill some oil wells, we're next in line for the drillers. If any of the 10 wells hit, we'll get a check every month for 25 years or so

 

[Deena in GA]

I've realized that I left a few things out of my post that will help us through now and hopefully in the future. First, we own a rental home with good renters. Even if times get really bad and we have to lower the rent (don't really see that happening around here - lowering the rent I mean) it would still be some money coming in. Also, my son and I clean our church to make extra money. We could always take on another church or business or more if needed.

Many years ago we made the decision to not replace or repair our central air conditioning. Instead we have a window unit in our den and my two oldest children whose rooms are on the far ends of the house have window units in their rooms. Their two units are only run a little while at night. We've found that if we just have one room that's cool, we can be happy. Otherwise, it's fans in the summer. We heat our home with wood and have several years worth stored. We've started replacing the light bulbs with the compact flourescents and see that making a difference in our electric bill. Even are trying some "little" things like going to bed earlier to cut back on electricity use. We've come up with lots of other little ways to save money or energy.

 

[Brutus]

I already live far more frugally than just about anyone I know. 95% of the discretionary purchases I've made in the past two years are prep related. The only new clothes I've bought have been work clothes. My rent is cheap even for Mississippi - $300 a month for ~1,000 sq.ft. 1 BR apartment. I'm single w/ no dependents as are both of my parents, so if I had to I could move in with one of them. I work at our family owned biz, so I'd be the last to be laid off. I don't think I have much to worry about on the job front anyways, as we're extremely busy due to Katrina and Rita.

I consider myself quite lucky compared to most folks. I don't have a mortgage. I don't have any kids to feed. I have plenty of money to pay off my truck if I have to. If I paid it off I could drop all of my insurance except liability and save a lot there. I have a ton of long-term storable food, guns, ammo, etc. and easy access to well water with redundant generator backups in case the power goes away - I even have a hand bailer to use if all the gennies conk out.

We'll see.......

 

[Caplock50]

A/C? I've got a 12-10...











...12 windows at 10 mph wind speed.

 

[Bill P]

Plan B - Understand supply and demand and position oneself to add value and compete like H@ll. Work with like minded friends.

 

[seraphima]

We've been lowering our costs for several years; bought a tiny house 5 years ago, refinanced two years ago when the rates went down to 5% (at a savings of $200 a month- and didn't take any money out to raise the mortgage debt, either), moved all storage stuff into the house (saved $60 a month). We have learned to do with less, and not to spend frivolously in many areas.

Our garden has been inexpensively expanded every year, and the perennial berry bushes and fruit trees are getting to good size. We grow all our own potatoes for a year, and our own seed potatoes, too. I can, and freeze, and make jelly, and even my own dogfood.

We have tried to invest in some energy-saving device every year. The flurorescent light bulbs and insulating curtains on the windows have been the biggest energy savers- very helpful.

We have switched our buying practices for food to buy only on sale, and then in quantity, like a case of canned peas, or 6 jars of mayo. That meant building some shelves into a closet or two, but buying on sale (enough to last until the next sale) saves 25% to 40% on food bills. ( I have the receipts to prove it!) This of course applies to everything from dish soap to Cold-eeze, and ziplocs to toilet paper.

Christmas presents are bought year 'round at garage sales and thrift stores. This year I'm trying fiddlehead fern pickles as a present, and often I will give people jelly. (The ones who like it are now well trained to bring me back the jars.) I buy jars at sales and thrift stores also, whenever there are some of the right size, saving lots of $$.

That answers the domestic part of Cory's question. The other half of plan B is that my DH, who is retired, recently started working as a sub in the school district on a part time basis. I worked the census in 2000, and may do that again. It's good money, as long as you don't have to spend too much on gas!

 

[Just Plain Mom]

Welll...we live pretty frugally, too. So our cost of living could rise a bit--I'd not be happy with it, but we still have some leeway. We have no debts except Older Son's student loan (our portion) and we help him out a bit per month until he graduates (next January), so aside from taxes and insurance on house and vehicles, our largest expenses are food, gas, and electricity. We do the best we can with food--garden, sales shop, make from scratch--and with gas--limit trips to town and combine what we can; Husband works 8 minutes away--but I'm afraid the electric bill this summer may hurt us. If push comes to shove, we may have the kids sleep downstairs and keep the upstairs unit off. The house doesn't lend itself to wall unit(s), but is surrounded by shade trees and Husband spent the last 6 months insulating the upstairs, where the previous owner's remodeler neglected to do so. So I'm hoping this year will be better than last. We also installed ceiling fans wherever possible.

If Husband were to be laid off...well, our expenses are pretty well measured vs. worth. There are a couple of things we could cut, but all in all, as I said, we live frugally. He has all sorts of skills to fall back on (he's a maintenance man, and can fix just about anything), but most importantly, he understands pride vs. feeding your family.