CHAT US Supreme Court: Gun Licensing Fees Are Unconstitutional

medic38572

TB Fanatic

April 12, 2021

By Civis Americanus


While I am not an attorney and cannot give formal legal advice, a 1943 U.S. Supreme Court decision, Murdock v. Pennsylvania, may give Second Amendment–supporters an overwhelming legal weapon with which to destroy every single firearm ownership (although not necessarily concealed carry) licensing scheme in the country. This includes those that require licenses to own or purchase firearms.

  • License to own: IL, MA, NY
  • License to purchase: CT, HI, IA, MD, MI, NE, NJ, NC, RI

The executive summary of the ruling in Murdock v. Pennsylvania (1943) was that it is unconstitutional for a state to levy a tax on people who want to sell religious merchandise. "A municipal ordinance which, as construed and applied, requires religious colporteurs to pay a license tax as a condition to the pursuit of their activities, is invalid under the Federal Constitution as a denial of freedom of speech, press and religion. The mere fact that the religious literature is 'sold', rather than 'donated' does not transform the activities of the colporteur into a commercial enterprise."

What does this have to do with fees to obtain a license to own or purchase a firearm? The USSC also found, "A State may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal Constitution." This means the entire Bill of Rights as opposed to just the First Amendment.

It is similarly unconstitutional to charge a fee to exercise the right to vote, AKA a poll tax. This could well be the reason why states with voter ID laws must provide free identification cards to qualified residents who do not have driver's licenses, as shown by Crawford v. Marion County Election Board. "The law's universally applicable requirements are eminently reasonable because the burden of acquiring, possessing, and showing a free photo identification is not a significant increase over the usual voting burdens, and the State's stated interests are sufficient to sustain that minimal burden." States can charge fees for driver's licenses because driving is a privilege, but voting is a right.

Gun Licensing Fees Are Racist
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The racist nature of many gun licensing schemes is meanwhile underscored by an amicus curiae brief filed by the African-American Gun Association (AAGA) against California. "African Americans have been the target of some of the oldest and most odious attempts at forced disarmament[.] ... NAAGA has a strong interest in this case because taxes and fees imposed on the right to keep and bear arms disproportionately affect African Americans,
due to the average lower income and higher rate of poverty in the African-American community." White supremacists once argued openly that this was their intention, and I recall that the complete quote, while it did not use the N-word, did refer to the "son of Ham."
It is a matter of common knowledge that in this state and in several others, the more especially in the Southern states where the negro population is so large, that this cowardly practice of "toting" guns has always been one of the most fruitful sources of crime[.] ... There would be a very decided falling off of killings "in the heat of passion" if a prohibitive tax were laid on the privilege of handling and disposing of revolvers and other small arms, or else that every person purchasing such deadly weapons should be required to register[.] ... Let a negro board a railroad train with a quart of mean whiskey and a pistol in his grip and the chances are that there will be a murder, or at least a row, before he alights.
The same went for a Virginia poll tax on the right to vote.
Discrimination! Why, that is precisely what we propose; that, exactly, is what this Convention was elected for — to discriminate to the very extremity of permissible action under the limitations of the Federal Constitution, with a view to the elimination of every negro voter who can be gotten rid of, legally, without materially impairing the numerical strength of the white electorate.

The same applies to laws that require gun-owners to buy expensive liability insurance that might be affordable by people of the middle and upper classes, but not by low-paid workers among whom are many black Americans. While these laws cannot discriminate openly against black people (just as Jim Crow gun taxes and prohibitions on inexpensive firearms known as N-word Saturday Night Specials did not specify any race), they can and do exploit the economic disparity that unfortunately prevails between Caucasians and black people to disarm the latter. Perhaps certain elements of the Democratic Party have hidden the same sheets and hoods they wore openly 70 or 80 years ago instead of getting rid of them entirely.

An Illinois Court Questioned the FOID Card Requirement
More to the point, however, is the brief's citation of Murdock v. Pennsylvania and the phrase "[a]cross constitutional rights, the courts have consistently forbidden the use of special fees and taxes on constitutionally protected conduct to generate general revenue."

Even Illinois's own courts appear to be finding issues with the Firearm Owner Identification Card per Illinois v. Brown. "The circuit court was correct that the FOID card requirement impermissibly infringes on law- abiding persons' rights to bear long arms-in their own homes for self-defense." The court filing also argues that the FOID card fee violates not just the U.S. Constitution, but also Illinois's own laws: "a person cannot be compelled 'to purchase, through a license fee or a license tax, the privilege freely granted by the constitution. Thus, Brown, who was merely exercising her right to keep a long gun in her own home for self-defense, cannot be made to purchase a card or obtain a license to exercise this fundamental right guaranteed by the Constitution." I do not know the outcome of this case but the bottom line is that an Illinois court had problems with the FOID law.

This article has hopefully provided Second Amendment–supporters with a valuable legal tool with which to attack all state laws that require people to pay for licenses to own or purchase firearms, and potential jurors (i.e., every citizen in the country) with information to use if called to serve in cases that involve these laws.

Civis Americanus is the pen name of a contributor who remembers the lessons of history and wants to ensure that our country never needs to learn those lessons again the hard way. The author is remaining anonymous due to the likely prospect of being subjected to "cancel culture" for exposing the Big Lie behind Black Lives Matter.

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Image via Pexels.
To comment, you can find the MeWe post for this article here.

 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I'd like to think that will indeed provide legal ammunition to defeat firearms licensing fees. Additionally, this should provide the rationale to invalidate the $200 tax stamp fee mandated by the 1934 National Firearms Act required to buy fully automatic weapons, short barreled rifles and suppressors.

Best
Doc
 

SmithJ

Veteran Member
That case is from 1943

Did it help during the last 80 years? Why would it be of benefit now?
 
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mostlyharmless

Veteran Member
Interesting. NC is on that list ...

Yes. The state requires a "purchase permit" for any pistol purchased. From your sheriff's office. If you have a valid concealed carry license, there is no permit required.

Interestingly, the ruling only applies to "fees" for the license of exercising a right from the Bill of Rights. It doesn't address whether or not a [free] "permit" to exercise a right is constitutional. I suspect they'll go back through the courts for that. If it matters.
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
Mudook v. Penn., 319 US 105 (1943)
"A state may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal Constitution and that a flat license tax here involves restraints in advance the constitutional liberties of Press and Religion and inevitably tends to suppress their existence. That the ordinance is non-discriminatory and that is applies also to peddlers of wares and merchandise is immaterial. The liberties granted by the first amendment are and in a preferred position. Since the privilege in question is guaranteed by the Federal Constitution and exist independently of the states authority , the inquiry as to whether the state has given something for which it cannot ask a return, is irrelevant. No state may convert any secured liberty into a privilege and issue a license and a fee for it"
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
Mudook v. Penn., 319 US 105 (1943)
"A state may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal Constitution and that a flat license tax here involves restraints in advance the constitutional liberties of Press and Religion and inevitably tends to suppress their existence. That the ordinance is non-discriminatory and that is applies also to peddlers of wares and merchandise is immaterial. The liberties granted by the first amendment are and in a preferred position. Since the privilege in question is guaranteed by the Federal Constitution and exist independently of the states authority , the inquiry as to whether the state has given something for which it cannot ask a return, is irrelevant. No state may convert any secured liberty into a privilege and issue a license and a fee for it"



Shuttlesworth v. Birmingham AL, 373 US 262 (1962)
"If the state does convert your right into a privilege and issue a license and a fee for it, you can ignore the license and a fee and engage the right with impunity."


[ I have posted this info a few times in the past ]. [ The court cases from the past that to this date have never been over turned and can't be due to the wording and construction of the courts ruling and the Bill of Rights is page two of the United States Constitution and the courts cannot pick and choose what parts they want to enforce.]
 
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20Gauge

TB Fanatic
The devil is in the details.

For example, do we call it a subsidy or a loan? Let's call it a subsidy even though it is a loan.
The same logic will apply here also. Are they charging a "fee" on a Constitutionally protected activity or are they charging on a side issue.

A supressor (silencer) is not actually a firearm, but a component to one and not a critical one to function, thus it can be subject to the "tax or fee". Or can it? That is what they will argue about.

This is why when I am King for the day, I will execute all lawyers or people who want to act like one.

So never ever make me King for the day people
 

Shooter

Veteran Member
Nebraska is on the list of permit to purchase,

BUT . it allows you to bypass the instant check system, just fill out a 4473 and leave,
 

hiwall

Has No Life - Lives on TB
When the Dems have the votes in place, they Will change the Supreme Court.
Once that is done they could do anything.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Who is trying to use logic when attempting to decipher the rules in place? Hhmmm?

Thats just crazy...

The constitution and precedent only means anything when they say it means something. They haven't followed the law and the spirit of the constitution for many years and are not likely to start now.
 

ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
That case is from 1943

Did it help during the last 80 years? Why would it be of benefit now?
Because when these cases come before the supreme court (intentionally no longer capitalized after the traitorous acts of refusing to stand with the people in the theft of the 2020 election) the old cases are used as precedents and are of value and standing in the court. Previous actions in the past years as you note do not address this because the cases were not brought before the supreme court.
 

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Funny.

“Licensing fees” are unconstitutional, but the 872,386,421 other infringements are pure as the driven snow.

Got it.
 

SmithJ

Veteran Member
Because when these cases come before the supreme court (intentionally no longer capitalized after the traitorous acts of refusing to stand with the people in the theft of the 2020 election) the old cases are used as precedents and are of value and standing in the court. Previous actions in the past years as you note do not address this because the cases were not brought before the supreme court.
No, the article is discussing a supreme court decision from 1943 as if it matters now. Why would it matter now if its been disregarded for 80 years.
 

ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
It DOES matter now! This is how the supreme court works. NONE of the other cases of attempting to restrict gun rights has gone to the supreme court>>>>>therefore THIS ruling would not be taken into account.

When a NEW case does go to the supreme court, THAN THIS case WILL MATTER>>>>>because it is called precedence.

It is a previous ruling by the supreme court on CONSTITUTIONALITY of something and will be used as a method of defining what is Constitutional and what is not.


This is how our court system works (so far). Supreme court NOT capitalized after the traitorous actions of the theft of the 2020 election.

If you still do not understand what I am telling you, you will need to read about how the legal system, and especially the supreme court determines issues. Hillsdale College has an EXCELLENT FREE course on line that you could use to understand more about the way our government works. (or has worked in the past and is based on the Constitution).
 

SmithJ

Veteran Member
It DOES matter now! This is how the supreme court works. NONE of the other cases of attempting to restrict gun rights has gone to the supreme court>>>>>therefore THIS ruling would not be taken into account.

When a NEW case does go to the supreme court, THAN THIS case WILL MATTER>>>>>because it is called precedence.

It is a previous ruling by the supreme court on CONSTITUTIONALITY of something and will be used as a method of defining what is Constitutional and what is not.


This is how our court system works (so far). Supreme court NOT capitalized after the traitorous actions of the theft of the 2020 election.

If you still do not understand what I am telling you, you will need to read about how the legal system, and especially the supreme court determines issues. Hillsdale College has an EXCELLENT FREE course on line that you could use to understand more about the way our government works. (or has worked in the past and is based on the Constitution).
LOL , its apparently YOU that doesn't understand reality.

It . does . not . matter.

If the supreme court won't hear a challenge by 20 states to the presidential election then they will not pay attention to a 80 year old case.

And neither will anyone else.

It's not like they haven't had previous chances..........
 

ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
Fine Smith J.>>>>>>>believe whatever you like.

really couldn't give flying F!

I was telling you the correct proceedural for the correct function of the court. It is obvious that things have changed. I was not addressing that.

YOU obviously don't know a lot about how our government is even SUPPOSED to function and now you are trying to cover it with changing the topic to how things are now. Get a grip!!

THEN>>>>go take a FLYING LEAP!! Cause you have NO idea what the hell you are talking about!!
 

Masterchief117

I'm all about the doom
It DOES matter now! This is how the supreme court works. NONE of the other cases of attempting to restrict gun rights has gone to the supreme court>>>>>therefore THIS ruling would not be taken into account.

When a NEW case does go to the supreme court, THAN THIS case WILL MATTER>>>>>because it is called precedence.

It is a previous ruling by the supreme court on CONSTITUTIONALITY of something and will be used as a method of defining what is Constitutional and what is not.


This is how our court system works (so far). Supreme court NOT capitalized after the traitorous actions of the theft of the 2020 election.

If you still do not understand what I am telling you, you will need to read about how the legal system, and especially the supreme court determines issues. Hillsdale College has an EXCELLENT FREE course on line that you could use to understand more about the way our government works. (or has worked in the past and is based on the Constitution).
I think most here knows how the system SHOULD work but currently we don't believe the system WILL work the way it has been or intended to.
 

ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
I beg to differ with you Masterchief>>>>if you read the initial conversations and how he asked questions, he obviously did not understand the way the court worked or the value of precedents.

Yes, things have changed radically and our country is on the rocks and breaking into pieces even as we speak, but that was not the issue I was addressing and was not the question he was asking at first. No one denies that our court is totally messed up>>>>as is obvious from my in parenthesis statements about the court.
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
It is not a "right" if it is granted by the Constitution. It is a "privilege" if it is granted. A privilege can be revocable, made conditional or amended.
 

SmithJ

Veteran Member
I beg to differ with you Masterchief>>>>if you read the initial conversations and how he asked questions, he obviously did not understand the way the court worked or the value of precedents.

Yes, things have changed radically and our country is on the rocks and breaking into pieces even as we speak, but that was not the issue I was addressing and was not the question he was asking at first. No one denies that our court is totally messed up>>>>as is obvious from my in parenthesis statements about the court.
Obviously it has been 80 years since that case was decided. Obviously it has not mattered at all.

It will not matter in the future either.

Getting mad doesn’t change that
 

Sicario

The Executor
Obviously it has been 80 years since that case was decided. Obviously it has not mattered at all.

It will not matter in the future either.

Getting mad doesn’t change that.
Oh, it could. Getting mad enough has changed a lot in our history.
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
It DOES matter now! This is how the supreme court works. NONE of the other cases of attempting to restrict gun rights has gone to the supreme court>>>>>therefore THIS ruling would not be taken into account.

When a NEW case does go to the supreme court, THAN THIS case WILL MATTER>>>>>because it is called precedence.

It is a previous ruling by the supreme court on CONSTITUTIONALITY of something and will be used as a method of defining what is Constitutional and what is not.


This is how our court system works (so far). Supreme court NOT capitalized after the traitorous actions of the theft of the 2020 election.

If you still do not understand what I am telling you, you will need to read about how the legal system, and especially the supreme court determines issues. Hillsdale College has an EXCELLENT FREE course on line that you could use to understand more about the way our government works. (or has worked in the past and is based on the Constitution).


Part of the problem is the Supreme Court will only hear cases that has or is a Federal question or Constitutional question.
Example: Most will argue their gun rights are being violated, problem the constitution does not say you have a gun right, but it does say you have the right to Own Arms/weapons (to but own and have as personal property) and to Bear Arms/weapons (to carry) this has a much broader meaning and not limited to just firearms which is included.
So the Court not wanting to hear any more gun rights arguments to placate the political system and someone needs to make a constitutional rights argument of it and correct the court if or when they try say gun rights and say X-Amendment right. and maybe citing the right word by word.
 
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ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
Obviously it has been 80 years since that case was decided. Obviously it has not mattered at all.

It will not matter in the future either.

Getting mad doesn’t change that
And you obviously know not anything at all about the court system and the value of precedents in arguing a case. Nor why that case has not been applied previously. I'm not angry, I'm frustrated at how dense you are and after explaining it ad- infinitum, you STILL don't get it!!
 

SmithJ

Veteran Member
And you obviously know not anything at all about the court system and the value of precedents in arguing a case. Nor why that case has not been applied previously. I'm not angry, I'm frustrated at how dense you are and after explaining it ad- infinitum, you STILL don't get it!!
Lol, do you even know what the referenced case was about? It was about religious freedom and the Supreme Court specifically wrote their decision to address the free exercise of RELIGION. It creates no precedent related to the 2nd amendment.

And as I said, it hasn’t been successfully cited as such for 80 years and won’t be now.
 
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Ractivist

Pride comes before the fall.....Pride month ended.
Ther is no rule of law..........in this is the truth, and the problem....we hold the high ground, that’s for sure. But the enemy is made up of the lowest of low life’s. I feel ya iou.
 
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