GOV/MIL US Air Force Reveals Conditions to Lift Decades-Long Ban on F-22 Raptor Exports

Richard

TB Fanatic

US Air Force Reveals Conditions to Lift Decades-Long Ban on F-22 Raptor Exports
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A US-built for sale F-22 Raptor performs during the Dubai Air Show, United Arab Emirates, Monday, November 13, 2017. - Sputnik International, 1920, 18.09.2021

© AP Photo / Kamran Jebreili
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Tim Korso - Sputnik International

Tim Korso
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The jet, developed and deployed well before the F-35 stealth fighter, contains a number of still classified technologies which Washington fears might be leaked to its adversaries if the F-22 was to hit the market.
The US Air Force has declassified a report to Congress exploring sales of the F-22 Raptor air superiority-oriented American fighter jet, which has never been offered for purchase abroad, The Drive website reported, citing documents obtained under a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request.
The F-22 programme was slapped with an export ban in September 2006 by the US Congress due to the jet containing numerous technologies, including stealth, which had never been exported. Although lawmakers decided that these technologies should be kept secret even from allies out of fear of falling into the hands of adversaries, they nonetheless sought to explore ways to make the F-22 available to sell. Several reports have been made since the end of the 1990s, as the jet was still in development, but the most recent, presented in March 2010, has remained classified until now.
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According to media website, the US Air Force, which prepared the report, suggested building an export version of the jet, dubbed Foreign Military Sales (FMS) F-22. The original F-22 included several components used in the F-35, a fighter specifically built to sell, and had a precedent to be cleared for purchase "as is". However, at least three critical systems were unique to the F-22: two were blacked out in the heavily-redacted report and a third known to be the Raptor's advanced 2-D thrust vectoring and super-cruise capabilities. These systems would either be replaced or modified to be allowed to be sold to the military of other countries.
F22 Raptor & F35 Lightning II  - Sputnik International, 1920, 18.09.2021
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15 May, 10:31 GMT

Some F-22 systems similar to those installed in the F-35 would have to be replaced. An FMS F-22 would feature the Joint Strike Fighter's AN/APG-81 active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar instead of the domestic AN/APG-77. Among other things that would need to be changed would be the jet's avionics with "mission data files" that would need to be tailored per individual client, as well as stealth components, coatings and weapons.
To add to the list of peculiarities, an FMS F-22 would provide potential customers with more sovereignty over their jets than an F-35. The latter comes with the pre-installed cloud Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) and hard-wired software, created and operated solely by the US (except for F-35 Adir supplied to Israel). FMS F-22 owners, on the other hand, would have full control over their jets, although they wouldn't be able to produce their parts domestically, as is the case with F-35s.
FMS F-22 Costs: For Customers and for the US
The authors of the website's report projected production costs of an FMS F-22 based on two scenarios: whether it would start immediately or if purchased after the production of US military jets. The latter happened in 2012, after the US slashed an order from 750 jets down to 187.
One reason for the order drop was the Raptor's price tag: it cost around $338 million per airframe versus around $80 million for a normally-equipped F-35. However, export scenarios featured a different price: from $232.5 million ($259 million in 2021 prices), if the product line for jets had to be revived, to $165 million apiece ($184 million in modern prices) in case of continuous manufacturing.
One apparent reason for price reduction was an expectation that prolonged production of the Lockheed Martin F-22 for export purposes would push down procurement and operating costs for all countries, including in the US. The report did not specify those potential benefits for the US, however, and nor did it factor in the cost of training programmes for new pilots.
Six F-22 Raptors arrived at Kadena AB, Jan. 10, as part of a three month deployment in support of U.S. Pacific Commands security obligations in the western pacific - Sputnik International, 1920, 17.09.2021
US House Armed Services Committee Warns Troubled F-35 Program May Become Unsustainable at Its Peak

17 September, 04:16 GMT

Although ways to make the F-22 jets viable for sale were outlined, Congress never acted upon the information. The program was later halted because the F-22 jets were focused on air-to-air combat and potential US adversaries Russia and China had not progressed much with their own fighter programmes according to the Pentagon. Concurrently, the emerging F-35 fifth-generation stealth jet offered greater versatility at a lower price and the fast-tracked ability to sell it to other militaries.
The F-22 initially sparked interest in potential buyers: Israel, Japan and Australia all explored the possibility of purchasing them. However, all three countries eventually declined to buy, in part due to the export ban and the incoming F-35. The F-22 purchase programme, which cost $32.4 billion to develop and $35 billion to purchase from Lockheed Martin, was put on ice.
 

Illini Warrior

Illini Warrior
Israel was the first country to get the F-35s >> more or less real world combat trials against Russian technology ...

with Puppet Biden being played by Obammy - they'd now be the last on the planet to get the real deal F22s exports
 

mecoastie

Veteran Member
NO. NO. NO. DO not export this technology!!! These things are still top in the world. Like our submarine technology keep it here!!!
 

teedee

Veteran Member
I used to know a general dynamics test pilot. He was older but still did first flights on the F-16. He said that the export versions were so slow that he wanted to read a newspaper while taking off.
 

Illini Warrior

Illini Warrior
Canada is looking for a new fighter. Today is election day in Canada, if the conservatives win, maybe Canada might be a targeted customer as well.

I don't know what happened to the deal >> Canada was going to update and sell off the old F5s to Australia in a wholesale deal sanctioned by the US - no technology had to be stripped out and it a good bargain - with Biden around God only knows ...
 

OldArcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Hmmm... I was of the understanding that a BUNCH of the F-22 tooling was scrapped almost a decade ago, shortly after the last plane rolled off the line..

They did the same thing with the F14. LibTurds ALWAYS kill off our best weapon systems…. Remember the F111 Aardvark? Great platform. Eisenhower was right- beware the Military-Indusrial Complex. Watch out for crooked politicians and those above 0-6, as well.

OA
 

Wildweasel

F-4 Phantoms Phorever
Hmmm... I was of the understanding that a BUNCH of the F-22 tooling was scrapped almost a decade ago, shortly after the last plane rolled off the line.

It was all packed for into sealed containers along with video presentations by production personnel to show future workers how to build F-22s for storage and sent to Sierra Army Depot for secure storage in case production was ordered restarted.

About 10 years an inventory was done following a congressional hearing about the possibility of restarting F-22 production. That's when it was discovered that a lot of tooling was missing and the idea of more F-22s was dropped.

Question is, did anyone investigate where the missing tooling went and why? Chinese or Russian sabotage or theft? Sabotage by anti F-22 factions in the DOD? Sabotage by the F-35 mafia wanting all the USAF fighter budget to themselves?

I find it interesting that no investigation was done to find out what happened to that material. Maybe a sign that the highest levels of DOD or the Administration were happy that we don't have the ability to build more F-22s?
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Selling F-22s to another country would be like selling the B-2 stealth bomber to another country. Even without supercruise or the 2D jet nozzles, that plane is still chock full of tech. The engines, the databus that connects all the sensors and radar, the RAM material around the inlets and much of the airframe, the way the weapons bay doors are "tuned" to be low observable when opened, etc.
I wouldn't sell these planes to anyone. Ally or not, no.
 

Wildweasel

F-4 Phantoms Phorever
I'm guessing we'll see a clean sheet airframe married to the next block of F-22/F-35 avionics with more payload options.

It's called NGAD (Next Generation Air Dominance) and concept demonstrators/prototypes are now flying at a certain lake in Nevada. More than a fighter, it's looking like an AWACS/ drone fleet manager/fighter that flies as a hunter/killer NGAD+drones team that has drones sent after targets by the NGAD in most engagements while the NGAD shoots key targets from a high altitude perch that lets the NGAD overlook the battlespace (from outer space is the joke bout how high they will be flying).

Oh, and it will be armed with a laser along with its own stock of missiles.
ngad1.jpg\
kratos-.jpg
 

ElevenO

Veteran Member
I get a real bad feeling about this !!


Yep.

Judging by what i saw when this administration left all of our military equipment to the taliban in A-Stan then my guess for the first customer of the export version of the f-22 will be none other than Red China itself.
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
It's called NGAD (Next Generation Air Dominance) and concept demonstrators/prototypes are now flying at a certain lake in Nevada. More than a fighter, it's looking like an AWACS/ drone fleet manager/fighter that flies as a hunter/killer NGAD+drones team that has drones sent after targets by the NGAD in most engagements while the NGAD shoots key targets from a high altitude perch that lets the NGAD overlook the battlespace (from outer space is the joke bout how high they will be flying).

Oh, and it will be armed with a laser along with its own stock of missiles.
View attachment 290828\
View attachment 290829

You would think that something newer/better/more survivable than an E-3 should be used as the controller for these swarms. Perhaps satellite links with controllers sitting at Creech AB rather than sitting ducks in a E-3. The CC-137 prototype for the E-3 Sentry first flew in 1972? 73? and even with upgrades it can only fly so far and manouver so much.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
It's called NGAD (Next Generation Air Dominance) and concept demonstrators/prototypes are now flying at a certain lake in Nevada. More than a fighter, it's looking like an AWACS/ drone fleet manager/fighter that flies as a hunter/killer NGAD+drones team that has drones sent after targets by the NGAD in most engagements while the NGAD shoots key targets from a high altitude perch that lets the NGAD overlook the battlespace (from outer space is the joke bout how high they will be flying).

Oh, and it will be armed with a laser along with its own stock of missiles.
View attachment 290828\
View attachment 290829
And IIRC there's an Australian aerospace company up to its neck in developing the drone portion......
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
Doubt whether the US will ever export the F22 or indeed produce more examples, BTW I think they should reopen the production line before it is too late.
 

Wildweasel

F-4 Phantoms Phorever
You would think that something newer/better/more survivable than an E-3 should be used as the controller for these swarms. Perhaps satellite links with controllers sitting at Creech AB rather than sitting ducks in a E-3. The CC-137 prototype for the E-3 Sentry first flew in 1972? 73? and even with upgrades it can only fly so far and manouver so much.

There won't be an E-3 AWACS involved. NGAD will act as its own AWACS flying at U-2 altitudes using F-35-tech 360 degree radar/sensors to monitor the airspace and Artificial Intelligence to replace the human controllers to communicate with its drones and other fighters.

Couple that with the new air-to-air missiles it will carry and NGAD will be able to hit targets over 200 miles from their launch point. And if that launch point is a drone flying 200 miles ahead of the NGAD, well into enemy airspace, then air dominance is achieved because you can knock down the enemy's aircraft as soon as they take off while your manned aircraft is safely offshore of enemy territory/airspace.
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
There won't be an E-3 AWACS involved. NGAD will act as its own AWACS flying at U-2 altitudes using F-35-tech 360 degree radar/sensors to monitor the airspace and Artificial Intelligence to replace the human controllers to communicate with its drones and other fighters.

Couple that with the new air-to-air missiles it will carry and NGAD will be able to hit targets over 200 miles from their launch point. And if that launch point is a drone flying 200 miles ahead of the NGAD, well into enemy airspace, then air dominance is achieved because you can knock down the enemy's aircraft as soon as they take off while your manned aircraft is safely offshore of enemy territory/airspace.

So essentially NGAD uses a drone pathfinder aircraft for the other drones? Interesting. I'd say air dominance would be nearly assured with this setup.
Although I do wonder how much of the tech from the F-35 did end up in Chinese hands.
 
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