GOV/MIL The U.S. Air Force Is Quietly Cutting A-10s - Here we go again....

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Here we go again....I know this is "big project"/budget driven (AKA F-35 and the "budget battle") and a lot of "Zoomies" don't want to deal with it but this is becoming serious BS and some career peoples' scalps need to be hanging from the Congressional lodge pole....

For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
https://warisboring.com/the-u-s-air-force-is-quietly-cutting-a-10s/

The U.S. Air Force Is Quietly Cutting A-10s

Here we go again

WIB AIR January 18, 2018 Dan Grazier

The U.S. Congress wants to keep the A-10 Warthog attack jet flying. The U.S. Air Force, not so much.

Lawmakers have repeatedly demonstrated their commitment to maintaining a dedicated ground-attack aircraft and, more importantly, an effective close air support capability. They have done so through legislation in successive National Defense Authorizations Acts since 2013.

In the most recent NDAA, Congress authorized $103 million for the Air Force to complete the job of installing urgently needed new replacement wings on the A-10 fleet. But a senior Air Force official recently told a meeting of A-10 personnel that the Air Force has no intention of fully implementing the re-winging effort and has no intention of keeping any more A-10s flying than the 171 that have already been upgraded, thus thwarting Congressional intent and legislation.

At the most recent A-10 Program Management Review meeting, Todd Mathes, the civilian A-10 Program Element Manager for the Air Force’s Air Combat Command, told the gathering of approximately 100 people involved with the program that the re-winging program “was not going to happen.”

This is according to people inside the room who are reluctant to speak publicly out of concern of retaliation. Previous senior Air Force officials have accused those who speak out about efforts to undermine the A-10’s effectiveness of “treason.”

The re-winging program is necessary to keep 110 of the current 281 A-10s in a flightworthy status. The original wings are now rapidly nearing the end of their operational lifespans, particularly because A-10s deployed to combat are flying six times more than they do during peacetime. New wings will allow the aircraft to fly for at least another 20 years.

According to Mathes’s reported statements, as the wings wear out, the Air Force will allow the number of flyable A-10s to draw down to 171 aircraft. As the number of operational aircraft falls, so, too, will the number of A-10 squadrons, going from nine squadrons down to six. Six is exactly the number the USAF is planning for, according to Congressional testimony by Air Force Lieutenant Generals Jerry Harris and Arnold Bunch.

According to Rep. Martha McSally, a former A-10 pilot and squadron commander and current member of the House Armed Services Committee, six squadrons of A-10s would not be enough to meet the need of the troops in the field.

Over the last 25 years, the Air Force has repeatedly attempted to shrink or cancel the A-10 program despite the fact that it has proven itself to be the most effective and most in-demand workhorse of all the planes supporting ground troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Congress has come to the program’s rescue many times.

Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson said in a December 2017 Senate Armed Services Committee hearing that the Air Force would begin building new A-10 wings if the funds to do so were restored to its budget. Congress authorized the funds, although it still remains an unfunded mandate until Congress passes the appropriations bill. Debate about the spending bill is still ongoing but the A-10 clearly needs to be a priority for readiness given current and future combat needs.

Boeing won the contract to build new wings for 242 A-10s in 2007. Air Force leadership deliberately allowed this contract to lapse in 2016 after only 171 aircraft received the new wings. Because Air Force officials allowed the earlier production line to shut down, they are now saddling the taxpayers with extra costs of more than $103 million to restart the wing production line.

“Pending approval of the FY18 appropriation, the Air Force plans to use the $103 million authorized in the FY18 NDAA to award a contract, establish a new wing production line and produce four additional A-10 wings,” an Air Force media-relations official said. “Establishing the production line will enable the Air Force to procure additional wings if the decision is made to do so in future budgets.”

The careful observer will note that neither Wilson nor the Air Force’s P.R. office is committing to fully updating the A-10 fleet. They are only committing to restarting the production line again — after the Air Force allowed the earlier contract to lapse — and building only four of the required 110 wingsets, which appears to continue a pattern of official Air Force hostility towards an aircraft and mission its leaders believe is beneath them.

In that context, Mathes’s recent statements are quite revealing. They demonstrate that the Air Force never had an intention to complete the re-winging project. Rather, it appears the USAF plan was and is to ensure that the aircraft with the older wings will “time-out.”

Without the new wings, the Air Force will be able to retire the older aircraft while claiming it had no choice as a result of metal fatigue. By such Congress-defying means, the Air Force will shrink the fleet of A-10s down to 171 aircraft and six squadrons.

This story originally appeared at the Project on Government Oversight.
 

Thunderbird

Veteran Member
The A-10 is John Boyd's legacy. Boyd shoved this up the Air force's ass and they have every thing they possibly could to kill it. The hell with the lives it will cost, the perfumed princes will have their way.
 

Rayku

Sanity is not statistical
Seems to me that the A-10s could transfer to the Marines. It's high grade dumnassery to kill a bird that has proven it's worth so many times over in recent years.
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
The US Air Force has NEVER ACCEPTED the ground air support mission and they never will. The Air Force has the same thing the Navy had with the battleship and aircraft carrier divide before World War Two. Trump simply needs to strip the Air Force of the ground support mission and transfer all A-10's to either the Army or the Marines.

The Air Force is too brain dead to care about whether infantry gets slaughtered from not having enough ground support. Trump should sack some Air Force generals, transfer the mission and then things will be okay.
 

Ractivist

Pride comes before the fall.....Pride month ended.
The US Air Force has NEVER ACCEPTED the ground air support mission and they never will. The Air Force has the same thing the Navy had with the battleship and aircraft carrier divide before World War Two. Trump simply needs to strip the Air Force of the ground support mission and transfer all A-10's to either the Army or the Marines.

The Air Force is too brain dead to care about whether infantry gets slaughtered from not having enough ground support. Trump should sack some Air Force generals, transfer the mission and then things will be okay.
Exactly. And while they are at it, build another 144 A 10's.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Building new A-10's isn't QUITE the snap folks think. They would have to disassemble a couple of them and rebuild ALL of the construction jigs for the airplane.....since the originals are gone.....
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
What is it with the Air Force? Why the serious negative animosity against this aircraft?

Saw firsthand some of the wicked damage they could do in Desert Storm.....FRIGGEN DEVASTATING! You do not want to be on the wrong side of one of these birds when it's in the zone! They totally eat armor....like a snack.:shkr:

What they should do is take all the A-10's from the Air Force and give them to the Marines. I don't know if there is a way to modify them to launch and land on carriers, They do have an amazingly strong air frame so it might be possible.

The kind of close air support that A-10's deliver is FRIGGEN AWESOME!! Talk about a true died in the wool KILLER!! I'm sure the Grunts would love the kind of wicked close ground support A-10's can deliver.

Screw the Air Force.....give'em to the Marines. But whatever happens the A-10 needs to keep flying for as long as possible.
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
Building new A-10's isn't QUITE the snap folks think. They would have to disassemble a couple of them and rebuild ALL of the construction jigs for the airplane.....since the originals are gone.....

^^^^all that for the price of how many new whiz-bang new zoomies....that can't fight?
 

Thunderbird

Veteran Member
What is it with the Air Force? Why the serious negative animosity against this aircraft?

Saw firsthand some of the wicked damage they could do in Desert Storm.....FRIGGEN DEVASTATING! You do not want to be on the wrong side of one of these birds when it's in the zone! They totally eat armor....like a snack.:shkr:

What they should do is take all the A-10's from the Air Force and give them to the Marines. I don't know if there is a way to modify them to launch and land on carriers, They do have an amazingly strong air frame so it might be possible.

The kind of close air support that A-10's deliver is FRIGGEN AWESOME!! Talk about a true died in the wool KILLER!! I'm sure the Grunts would love the kind of wicked close ground support A-10's can deliver.

Screw the Air Force.....give'em to the Marines. But whatever happens the A-10 needs to keep flying for as long as possible.

If you really want to know the answer to this question read "BOYD. The fighter pilot that changed the art of war" by Robert Coram.
The Air Farce mentality is unbelievable. Damn good book about the man that was able to mathematically define dogfighting and thusly define what a fighter aircraft should be.
Incidentally he was a hell of a pilot. Forty second Boyd would bet any new graduate of the Air Force "Top Gun" school, where he instructed, that he could reverse the advantage given the student within 40 seconds. He never had to pay off on the bet.
 

Cruiser

Veteran Member
They would be a perfect "fit" for the Marine mission of "adapt, improvise and overcome". Not pretty but gets the job done.
 

Nowski

Let's Go Brandon!
The solution is simple.

The US Army already has an air corp, however it is rotary based.

Just take the A10's from the damned air force,
and transfer them, and the A10 drivers, to the US Army Air Corp.

It was a major screw-up by the Truman administration,
when they took the CAS job away from the then Army Air Corp,
and gave it to the newly formed up US Air Force.

Let the US Air Force, and their trillion dollar aircraft,
do the stratospheric fighting and bombing,
and the CAS to the US Army Air Corp.

Win win for all concerned, especially the troopers on the ground.

Please be safe everyone, and please arm up.

Regards to all deplorables.

Nowski
 

Bensam

Deceased
Seems to me that the A-10s could transfer to the Marines. It's high grade dumnassery to kill a bird that has proven it's worth so many times over in recent years.

Absolutely, this is also my thoughts on this issue.
 

zeda1

Senior Member
I love the A10.

What keeps coming to mind is Slaughterbots and future conflicts. Wars and regional conflicts and collateral damage are big issues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w682EEaXqQY

I think/feel that the future is here, Now, and this tech is exponential, just look at how far the cell phone has come, and how fast.

It breaks my heart, but the A10 is dead.
 

Raffy

Veteran Member
This discussion makes me wonder if the Air Force itself is just one big mistake. Maybe ALL of the current functions of the Air Force should be transferred back to the Army (the way it was during World War II and before).
 

Thomas Paine

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Better yet pick one of every third general officer and GS/ES asshole involved in this and give them a secret hearing for treason during war time and execute their power mad pointy little heads. Or if that's two much trouble pick an operational classified special operations unit at the team level that had their ass saved by the hawgs and give them a list ,explain the problem and tell them to solve the problem as quietly as possible but weapons were free if need be.




Damn these sonsabitches to the ends of the earth. I never saw combat didn't expect to but if I did I knew there would be those crazy guys in that beautiful flying gun to back the infantry up and most likely save if not my and my buddies asses then some other guys somewhere else. Damn I hate feather merchants .
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
The US Air Farce is full of zoomies - they want to fly higher and faster not lower and slower.

The A-10 (and any other CAS- close air support- airframes) should be stripped away from the zoomies, the 1947 Key West agreement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_West_Agreement) canceled and the US Army Air Corps re-established with armed fixed wing ground support aircraft flown by US Army warrant officers.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Hummm....Olive sprig a la "Lucy and the football" or the "real deal"?....

For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
https://www.military.com/dodbuzz/2018/01/25/air-force-searching-new-company-re-wing-10s.html

Air Force Searching for New Company to Re-Wing A-10s

Military.com 25 Jan 2018 By Oriana Pawlyk

The U.S. Air Force is searching for a new company to rebuild wings on the A-10 ground-attack plane after ending an arrangement with Boeing Co., officials said.

The service plans to launch a new competition for the re-winging work and award a contract sometime after Congress appropriates full-year funding for fiscal 2018, which began Oct. 1, they said. (The government is currently running on a short-term funding measure known as a continuing resolution, which lasts through Feb. 8.)

During a speech on Thursday in Washington, D.C., Gen. Mike Holmes, the head of Air Combat Command, touched on the contract with Boeing and the planned future deal.

"The previous contract that we had was with Boeing, and it kind of came to the end of its life for cost and for other reasons," he said. "It was a contract that was no longer cost-effective for Boeing to produce wings under, and there were options there that we weren't sure where we were going to go, and so now we're working through the process of getting another contract."

Related content:
A-10 Wing Replacements Depend on Budget, Air Force Says
Did the Air Force Dash Hopes for Building More F-22s?
How Many Fighter Jets Does the Air Force Need?

When contacted by Military.com for additional details, Ann Stefanek, a spokeswoman for the Air Force at the Pentagon, confirmed the planned contract will be "a new and open competition."

Boeing has been upgrading A-10 wings for the Air Force since June 2007, according to Cassaundra Bantly, a spokeswoman for the Chicago-based company. The contract calls for replacing up to 242 sets of wings, and the company has so far received orders to replace 173, she said.

"Boeing stands ready with a demonstrated understanding of the technical data package, tooling, supply chain, and manufacturing techniques to offer the lowest risk option and quickest timeline for additional wings for the A-10 Warthog," Bantly said in an email.

She added, "The ordering period on the current contract has expired, so the U.S. Air Force is working on an acquisition strategy for more wings. Boeing would welcome a follow-on effort for additional A-10 wings.

"We’re currently in the process of delivering the remaining wings on our contract," Bantly said.

During a briefing at the Brookings Institution, Holmes said the Air Force requested funding in the fiscal 2018 budget to continue rebuilding wings on the A-10 Thunderbolt II, also known as the Warthog. The aircraft, popular among ground troops though a budget target for previous leaders, recently returned to Afghanistan to conduct close air support missions.

Stefanek recently told Military.com the Air Force plans to use $103 million authorized in the National Defense Authorization Act, which sets policy goals and spending limits for the fiscal year, to award a contract for the A-10 work, establish a new wing production line and produce four additional wings.

That work "is all that money funds," she told Military.com last week.

Once the Air Force receives the funding, the competition can be announced. Whichever defense contractor wins the contract will pay for the startup to include four sets of new wings.

However, because the wings will be considered a "new start" program, the work can't begin under a continuing resolution -- the program is dependent on the fiscal 2018 and succeeding 2019 appropriations.

"In the [FY]19 program that we're working, we also buy more wings," Holmes said.
With a new contract, like "all new contracts" the first set of wings will be expensive as engineers work through the design phase, Holmes said, referring to working through the production line kinks that come at the start of programs.

How many more A-10s will get new wings still remains in limbo.

Air Force officials have said the service can commit to maintaining wings for six of its nine A-10 combat squadrons through roughly 2030.

"As far as exactly how many of the 280 or so A-10s that we have that we'll maintain forever, I'm not sure, that'll depend on a Department of Defense decision and our work with Congress," Holmes said.

On the exact squadron number, he clarified, "It's not a decision that we have to make right away. It'll depend on what we have, what we need and what's useful on the battlefield year-to-year as we go through it."

Of the 281 A-10s currently in the inventory, 173 have already been outfitted or are in the process of being outfitted with new wings (though one of the newly re-winged planes was destroyed in a crash), Stefanek said. That leaves 109 aircraft remaining in the inventory still slated to receive the upgrades, she said.

The service has struggled with its message on how it plans to keep the fleet flying since the aircraft's retirement was delayed until at least 2022.

Facing financial pressure, the Air Force -- driven by spending caps known as sequestration -- made multiple attempts in recent years to retire the Warthog to save an estimated $4 billion over five years and to free up maintainers for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the stealthy fifth-generation fighter jet designed to replace the A-10 and legacy fighters.

Holmes on Thursday added that as more F-35 amass themselves across U.S. bases, "I won't be able to just add those on top of the [fighter] squadrons that I have."

The service is looking to grow its fighter fleet to stay competitive against near-peer threats such as Russia and China. To do so, it believes it needs to increase its number of fighter squadrons from 55 to 60.

But that means it needs a variety of aircraft to sustain the fight, not just a regurgitation of old planes. Whether this means the Air Force is still weighing retiring its F-15C/D fleet sometime in the mid-2020s is unclear. Holmes did not speak to specific aircraft fleets when addressing fighter requirements.

"We'll have to make some decisions" of what kind of aircraft to move or divest, he said.

Preferred basing for F-35 bases is old F-16 Fighting Falcon bases, he said. The Air Force has been moving Vipers around various bases or into new training units since the F-35 has come online.

-- Editor's note: This story was updated to add comments from the Boeing spokeswoman beginning in the sixth paragraph.

-- Oriana Pawlyk can be reached at oriana.pawlyk@military.com. Follow her on Twitter at Oriana0214.
 

LightEcho

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The solution is simple.

The US Army already has an air corp, however it is rotary based.

Just take the A10's from the damned air force,
and transfer them, and the A10 drivers, to the US Army Air Corp.

It was a major screw-up by the Truman administration,
when they took the CAS job away from the then Army Air Corp,
and gave it to the newly formed up US Air Force.

Let the US Air Force, and their trillion dollar aircraft,
do the stratospheric fighting and bombing,
and the CAS to the US Army Air Corp.

Win win for all concerned, especially the troopers on the ground.

Please be safe everyone, and please arm up.

Regards to all deplorables.

Nowski

Exactly what I was thinking. Close air support is already being done with choppers and adding the A10 would be a complementary and strong decision.

The Air Force is too busy with mindset of Obama- court martial-ling commanders who refused to conduct weddings of homos. Spending hours on diversity training instead of the ways of war. Worried more about gender studies than national defense.
 

teedee

Veteran Member
I used to work in the military industrial complex and was astounded to learn that all tooling was destroyed as soon as a program was off contract. Not just sent to a junk pile like out in Tucson where they store the older aircraft. I have seen new tooling ordered built when spares were required. It was a big make work boondoggle as far as I could see. The same thing happened when some special extruded material was no longer required because the contract was at an end. The remainder was sold for scrap as even though it could be used on another contract it was impossible to transfer the material to the new contract. The material would have to be remade. Had someone tell me one time that the whole MIC was welfare for the rich and well educated. I found this to be true.
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
The AF is shopping for someone else to do the wing upgrades, boeng is out of that process for whatever reason.

There is a blurb on this at The War Zone.
 

Jerry799

Veteran Member
In watching the video, it is the worst of all possible worlds ...a slow, stealthy ground support aircraft with no external hardpoints for external weaponry, bombs, or cannon, and no internal "GUN". Limited to a few missiles carried in internal bomb bay. An AirForce "wet dream"...pity the poor pilot that would have to fly it, or the ground troops who would be counting on it to save their lives...

If the Air Force wants to relegate the ground support mission to secondary status, they should simply turn all A10's over to the Army and Marines.
 

Warthog

Black Out
In watching the video, it is the worst of all possible worlds ...a slow, stealthy ground support aircraft with no external hardpoints for external weaponry, bombs, or cannon, and no internal "GUN". Limited to a few missiles carried in internal bomb bay. An AirForce "wet dream"...pity the poor pilot that would have to fly it, or the ground troops who would be counting on it to save their lives...

If the Air Force wants to relegate the ground support mission to secondary status, they should simply turn all A10's over to the Army and Marines.
I'm guessing those are just prototypes, I'm sure an Attack/Bomber is going to be armed to the max.
 

NoDandy

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Building new A-10's isn't QUITE the snap folks think. They would have to disassemble a couple of them and rebuild ALL of the construction jigs for the airplane.....since the originals are gone.....

I have NEVER understood why they get rid of the construction jigs. We have acres of old planes out in the desert, why not put the jigs out there, in case they would ever be needed ?
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
I have NEVER understood why they get rid of the construction jigs. We have acres of old planes out in the desert, why not put the jigs out there, in case they would ever be needed ?

As always follow the currents of the money...
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
https://www.military.com/dodbuzz/20...s-proposal-10-warthog-re-winging-program.html

Air Force Releases Proposal for A-10 Warthog Re-Winging Program

Military.com 30 May 2018 By Oriana Pawlyk

The U.S. Air Force has published its solicitation to defense companies to re-wing more than 100 A-10 Thunderbolt II close-air support mission aircraft.

The proposal, released May 25, calls for 112 wing sets and 15 additional kits over a five-year ordering period as part of the service's A-10 Thunderbolt Advanced-Wing Continuation Kit or "ATTACK."

According to the request for proposal, the contract includes a five-year ordering period that begins with the contract award, followed by two optional one-year ordering periods. A four-year delivery period will follow the conclusion of the ordering periods.

The Air Force is asking defense companies to respond by Aug. 23, the solicitation said. Estimated total costs have not been determined.

Related content:

  • A-10 in Jeopardy Again? Air Force May Not Keep All Warthogs Until 2030
  • Air Force Debates Replacing Depleted Uranium Rounds for A-10
  • A-10 Vs. F-35 Showdown Still Coming -- And Could Happen This Spring

The contract award is expected in fiscal 2019, the documents said.

Gen. Ellen Pawlikowski, commander of Air Force Materiel Command, recently told reporters she knew of at least two companies interested in the endeavor prior to the draft RFP release. The service in February released a draft RFP to help defense companies submit ideas on how best to develop new wings for the remaining portion of the A-10 fleet.

"I understand there is some potential for some increase in coming editions [of the budgets], so I think there's an interest there," she said during a breakfast in Washington, D.C., on May 15.

"I think the jury will be out though in terms of the price I can get," Pawlikowski added. "That will be a function of what folks think will be our long-term buy of those as we go forward."

The Air Force in January said it was searching for a new company to rebuild wings on the A-10 after ending an arrangement with Boeing Co.

Of the 281 A-10s currently in the inventory, 173 have already been outfitted or are in the process of being outfitted with new wings (though one of the newly re-winged planes was destroyed in a crash), according to Air Force spokeswoman Ann Stefanek.

That leaves 108 aircraft remaining in the inventory still slated to receive the upgrades, she told Military.com at the time.

The fiscal 2018 budget approved by President Donald Trump in March includes $103 million for the service to re-wing a portion of its fleet. The fiscal 2019 budget, now working its way through Congress, requests an additional $79 million for the effort.

Air Force officials have said the service can commit to maintaining wings for six of its nine A-10 combat squadrons through roughly 2030.

Just how many it will actually restructure is unknown.

During a House Armed Services Tactical Air and Land subcommittee hearing last month, Lt. Gen. Jerry D. Harris, the service's deputy chief of staff for strategic plans and requirements, said as a platform, the A-10, beloved among ground troops and attack pilots alike, will remain until about 2030. But the number of A-10s that will keep flying as a result of new wings will likely be reduced.

"We are not confident we are flying all of the airplanes we currently possess through 2025," Harris said in response to Rep. Martha McSally, a Republican from Arizona and former Air Force A-10 pilot.

"We're not going to make a further commitment [on additional wingsets] until we know where we're going with both the A-10 and the F-35," he said, referring to the further Initial Operational Test and Evaluation (IOT&E) testing between the two aircraft.

A "fly-off" between the two, part of the IOT&E testing, is expected in the near future.

-- Oriana Pawlyk can be reached at oriana.pawlyk@military.com. Follow her on Twitter at @Oriana0214
 

Seer

Veteran Member
"We're not going to make a further commitment [on additional wingsets] until we know where we're going with both the A-10 and the F-35,"

What the heck does the A10 have to do with the F35? Like almost everyone has said, transfer the planes to the Marines. The Air Force wants dazzle everyone with technology and one day it's going to bite them in the ass when China throws 20 "inferrior" aircraft against the F35 and it's 9 missiles.
 

NoDandy

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The US Air Force has NEVER ACCEPTED the ground air support mission and they never will. The Air Force has the same thing the Navy had with the battleship and aircraft carrier divide before World War Two. Trump simply needs to strip the Air Force of the ground support mission and transfer all A-10's to either the Army or the Marines.

The Air Force is too brain dead to care about whether infantry gets slaughtered from not having enough ground support. Trump should sack some Air Force generals, transfer the mission and then things will be okay.

Exactly !!!
 

NoDandy

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Building new A-10's isn't QUITE the snap folks think. They would have to disassemble a couple of them and rebuild ALL of the construction jigs for the airplane.....since the originals are gone.....

I am not an aeronautical engineer. But I would think it is do able . And it should be done.
 

NoDandy

Has No Life - Lives on TB
" What is it with the Air Force? Why the serious negative animosity against this aircraft? "

To them, zoomies are more glamorous. Besides, they make more in kickbacks from contractors building new zoomies !!
 

Dosadi

Brown Coat
A10 should belong to Army and Marine aviation.

Let the air force become the strategic bomb delevery / air superiority fighter group

Leave CAS in the hands of the professionals who depend upon it.
 
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