POL The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans - Vivek Ramaswamy
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TheSearcher
Are you sure about that?
And Vivek's supposition is that the old, successful American way can be reborn. Not that Americans are incapable.
@RealTheoWold
1. I led the drafting of legislation in the Trump ‘45 White House to create a new legal immigration framework. I saw firsthand what happens when ANY visa reform is proposed: executives from the biggest multinationals and lobbyists from all kinds of industries are banging on the door, demanding to keep what they have.
2. What they have is a tangled morass of visa classes that are carve-outs, handouts, and special favors to particular industries, bought and paid for through decades of lobbying feckless members of Congress and presidential administrations. Industries lobby for the foreign workers they claim to “need,” and then they get a visa class carve-out, which they protect (and seek to expand) at all costs.
3. And there are enormous costs for our nation - costs that fall on the American worker with devastating consequences. The statistics bear that out: job gains go to foreign-born workers while American workers post net job losses.
I also know this firsthand because I grew up a working class kid, watching my father (and by extension, our family) suffer from unfair foreign labor competition.
4. For too long, Americans have been largely unaware of the source of these problems because the policies are designed to be too complicated and are made largely invisible to public scrutiny. I’m glad the right is having an open debate about legal immigration. It is past time.
5. To be clear, the difference between O1Bs and H1Bs matters in this debate, for example, because these visas are intended to accomplish very different goals and are entirely different in scale, BUT both visa classes are rife with abuse. (Plenty of Reggaeton stars and anti-American athletes enter the U.S. on O-1 visas.) Essentially ALL visa classes are abused. Again, that’s because these things exist to serve special interests on one side of the labor market (and it’s not the side of the American worker).
6. The debate can’t be confined to a single industry - it’s about Big Tech, Big Ag, tourism and hospitality, transportation (airlines, trucking), the media & sports entertainment complex (yes, the NFL and MLB have their own special visa classes and their own special treatment by DHS and State) and many many others. They all want special visas to import cheap and convenient foreign labor. Even the roofing industry is now seeking its own special visa class. And all of these special classes get expanded over time, allowing the American worker to be flooded with foreign competitors for no reason other than labor savings for employers.
7. I, like many Americans, voted for a sealed border and an immigration moratorium. Americans need to retake control of our immigration system — how many are coming in, for what reasons, and for how long. One question absent from our current system: how does this individual immigrant benefit the American nation and her people? No more blanket exemptions or economic rationales. Immigration is a regime-based question, as both Hamilton and Jefferson wrote on extensively, and our system should reflect that Americans must also demand meaningful investment in assimilation and integration requirements for legal immigrants here already.
View: https://twitter.com/realtheowold/status/1872411493935026545
1. I led the drafting of legislation in the Trump ‘45 White House to create a new legal immigration framework. I saw firsthand what happens when ANY visa reform is proposed: executives from the biggest multinationals and lobbyists from all kinds of industries are banging on the door, demanding to keep what they have.
2. What they have is a tangled morass of visa classes that are carve-outs, handouts, and special favors to particular industries, bought and paid for through decades of lobbying feckless members of Congress and presidential administrations. Industries lobby for the foreign workers they claim to “need,” and then they get a visa class carve-out, which they protect (and seek to expand) at all costs.
3. And there are enormous costs for our nation - costs that fall on the American worker with devastating consequences. The statistics bear that out: job gains go to foreign-born workers while American workers post net job losses.
I also know this firsthand because I grew up a working class kid, watching my father (and by extension, our family) suffer from unfair foreign labor competition.
4. For too long, Americans have been largely unaware of the source of these problems because the policies are designed to be too complicated and are made largely invisible to public scrutiny. I’m glad the right is having an open debate about legal immigration. It is past time.
5. To be clear, the difference between O1Bs and H1Bs matters in this debate, for example, because these visas are intended to accomplish very different goals and are entirely different in scale, BUT both visa classes are rife with abuse. (Plenty of Reggaeton stars and anti-American athletes enter the U.S. on O-1 visas.) Essentially ALL visa classes are abused. Again, that’s because these things exist to serve special interests on one side of the labor market (and it’s not the side of the American worker).
6. The debate can’t be confined to a single industry - it’s about Big Tech, Big Ag, tourism and hospitality, transportation (airlines, trucking), the media & sports entertainment complex (yes, the NFL and MLB have their own special visa classes and their own special treatment by DHS and State) and many many others. They all want special visas to import cheap and convenient foreign labor. Even the roofing industry is now seeking its own special visa class. And all of these special classes get expanded over time, allowing the American worker to be flooded with foreign competitors for no reason other than labor savings for employers.
7. I, like many Americans, voted for a sealed border and an immigration moratorium. Americans need to retake control of our immigration system — how many are coming in, for what reasons, and for how long. One question absent from our current system: how does this individual immigrant benefit the American nation and her people? No more blanket exemptions or economic rationales. Immigration is a regime-based question, as both Hamilton and Jefferson wrote on extensively, and our system should reflect that Americans must also demand meaningful investment in assimilation and integration requirements for legal immigrants here already.
View: https://twitter.com/realtheowold/status/1872411493935026545
adgal
Veteran Member
Yesterday, I had lunch with a dear friend who is an engineer for a company that designs and builds water towers. He has been trying to retire for almost a year - but every time they think they have found a replacement it doesn't work. He said, "They are bringing in all of these Gen-Zers who want to be paid, but don't want to work. They don't have any work ethic at all." They just hired an American woman who was educated in Poland - and he is hoping that she will have more of an A-type personality work ethic.
I didn't think Vivek was saying we needed to import more workers - I think he was stating that there is a problem with a lot of US workers, which is why companies are hiring Asian workers - and we need to fix that problem if we are going to succeed. We moved to a small farm when our children were small so they could LEARN how to work. They are all successful and hardworking. They also give back to their communities and raise their children to learn how to serve others and work hard. Those kids are going to be successful because they're not afraid of working hard.
wait-n-see
Veteran Member
Interesting.
Outright accusing others of racism while ignoring the valid concerns of what is being said by those being accused of racism.
The tactic when that side has lost the argument and credibility and now has nothing else to do but resorting to personal attacks, eh?
Cacheman
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Follow the money, H1B is just another form of Human Trafficking, H1B is looking like another government sponsored scam......
A big shot employment attorney in California called me last night re: H1B visa fraud / trafficking of workers.
Here’s what she said: The market is cornered by visa body shops who apply for ~50% of the visas.
The economics of it: These body shops are headed by former hiring managers from Big Tech companies. They bring people to America, rent apartments for them, and house about 10 together in one apartment.
They put these recipients through a ~4 week bootcamp of basic tech training, fraudulently rewrite their resumes, teach them how to interview.
The body shops land them jobs, primarily at the companies these hiring managers came from, and pay the workers less than half of the money in hand. Ex. Job is listed as a $200k salary, but the company is contracted with the body shop *not* the H1B worker, and the worker is actually paid closer to $40 an hour.
The body shops pocket most of the money and are making millions by essentially trafficking people.
The abuse and fraud must end!
The H-1B visa program is a giant fraud.
View: https://twitter.com/stclairashley/status/1872671451163087150
A big shot employment attorney in California called me last night re: H1B visa fraud / trafficking of workers.
Here’s what she said: The market is cornered by visa body shops who apply for ~50% of the visas.
The economics of it: These body shops are headed by former hiring managers from Big Tech companies. They bring people to America, rent apartments for them, and house about 10 together in one apartment.
They put these recipients through a ~4 week bootcamp of basic tech training, fraudulently rewrite their resumes, teach them how to interview.
The body shops land them jobs, primarily at the companies these hiring managers came from, and pay the workers less than half of the money in hand. Ex. Job is listed as a $200k salary, but the company is contracted with the body shop *not* the H1B worker, and the worker is actually paid closer to $40 an hour.
The body shops pocket most of the money and are making millions by essentially trafficking people.
The abuse and fraud must end!
The H-1B visa program is a giant fraud.
View: https://twitter.com/stclairashley/status/1872671451163087150
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Zardoz
Veteran Member
I believe it to be very accurate. Many years ago when I was working in Management, our CEO needed to go to India for a Business Deal he was trying to put together. He described the culture and behavior he encountered there and swore no Business Deal was worth that experience again. I doubt things have improved.
Over the course of my IT career, I’ve noted that almost universally, Indian tech workers are unable to analyze tricky problems (though they can address simple ones), nor can they see the bigger picture on a large project. They’re only at their best when EXACT specs are handed to them, and they code to those specs. Get them “off script” and they’re worthless.
My take is that there is a real good reason why Ramaswany and Musk are in "advisory positions only" while serving at Trump's pleasure in his administration. They can be immediately jerked back real hard if/when they run off the reservation.
(Frankly, I'd feel better if RFK Jr. was in same).
As for Trump, I believe he means it when he says "America First".
(Frankly, I'd feel better if RFK Jr. was in same).
As for Trump, I believe he means it when he says "America First".
Cascadians
Leska Emerald Adams
Wow this debate just exposed another form of corrupt rampant human trafficking!
Trump is completely against this type of trafficking and slavery. Hoooo boy. Talk about exposure!
Praying every citizen now applies pressure to get this STOPPED IMMEDIATELY !!
Trump is completely against this type of trafficking and slavery. Hoooo boy. Talk about exposure!
Praying every citizen now applies pressure to get this STOPPED IMMEDIATELY !!
Buick Electra
Member of the Early Bird Club
I wasn't irate with what Musk said because after all, he does own a tech company and would know about the quality of "professionals" out there. My ire arose reading 'Sammy Sock Salesman' Vivek's response. He doesn't own a tech company and his choice of words on how the American people are failing at raising and educating their kids, although true, could have been put a little less blunty while jamming people of his own race down our throats. It's a shame responders made their responses about race because I dare say, if Price Harry or Prince Phillip had come on and made the same comments about how superior British people were over Americans, I would think the responses would have been just as lethal.
The timing of these "insights" couldn't have been worse. The United States is still overrun with millions of illegal immigrants who have sucked up every ounce and dollar of government help, not to mention housing as we wonder about how many and how long it will take to get rid of them, AND.... Trump hasn't even taken office yet! Can we say "BAD TIMING?" Talk about pouring salt in a gaping, bleeding wound!
The timing of these "insights" couldn't have been worse. The United States is still overrun with millions of illegal immigrants who have sucked up every ounce and dollar of government help, not to mention housing as we wonder about how many and how long it will take to get rid of them, AND.... Trump hasn't even taken office yet! Can we say "BAD TIMING?" Talk about pouring salt in a gaping, bleeding wound!
vector7
Dot Collector
Bannon: “You can’t run a country by algorithm. We are not going to be run by big tech oligarchs it’s not why we fought these wars and spilled blood”
DC Draino made a great observation that this is like the Democrats saying “Who’s gonna pick the crops but with the elites saying whose gonna do the coding”
He also said “Don’t trash the American culture, we just took our country back from a dangerous regime”
Bannon’s comment about “…Run a country by algorithm….” Is the BEST encapsulation of what we face. This is a grave issue that must be addressed, and it’s going to get very ugly
I said the other day and I will say it again! We are full, no immigration of any kind for 10 years!
After the hell we just went through under Biden these people are nuts!
RT 4min
View: https://fxtwitter.com/SolzhenitzenJr/status/1872688224004653503?s=19
DC Draino made a great observation that this is like the Democrats saying “Who’s gonna pick the crops but with the elites saying whose gonna do the coding”
He also said “Don’t trash the American culture, we just took our country back from a dangerous regime”
Bannon’s comment about “…Run a country by algorithm….” Is the BEST encapsulation of what we face. This is a grave issue that must be addressed, and it’s going to get very ugly
I said the other day and I will say it again! We are full, no immigration of any kind for 10 years!
After the hell we just went through under Biden these people are nuts!
RT 4min
View: https://fxtwitter.com/SolzhenitzenJr/status/1872688224004653503?s=19
Buick Electra
Member of the Early Bird Club
️ DOGE DAYS OF THE COLOR WAR ☙ Friday, December 27, 2024 ☙ C&C NEWSDOGE DAYS OF THE COLOR WAR ☙ Friday, December 27, 2024 ☙ C&C NEWS
A war against MAGA is underway, and it is disguised as a Civil War against DOGE. But who's really behind it?
Good morning, C&C, it’s Friday! Five days left until 2024 becomes a memory. History will decide what kind of record-breaking year it was, fine or foul. The Childers family is hitting the road today for our winter vacation, for some reason seeking colder weather than is available in the Sunshine State. It just makes returning that much sweeter. Today we explore what the Washington Post is calling a MAGA civil war. It’s a much bigger story than it looks.
WORLD NEWS AND COMMENTARY
Elon and Vivek accidentally chewed through a high power line yesterday, and social media has been on fire ever since. The battle lines of a fierce war between conservatives are shaping up. Today’s post focuses not on the debate’s issue, but on the character of the debate itself — and how this is MAGA’s first major challenge from the deep-state. Then we’ll discuss ways to fight back and hold recent gains rather than pop! like the Tea Party bubble.
Corporate media was beside itself. Rolling Stone ran its giddy story late yesterday afternoon under the headline, “Musk, Ramaswamy Face MAGA Uproar After Saying Tech Firms Need Foreign Workers.” But where did the ‘uproar’ really come from? Was it really from Elon and Vivek, or did it originate in some security state skunkworks?
It all started yesterday when Elon tweeted about H1-B visas. He should know, since he owns a handful of companies that depend on the visas. Elon’s perfectly predictable point was that as a tech owner, in his view there is a shortage of top engineering talent among native Americans, and so in the short run it would make American companies more competitive if they have temporary work visas for engineering hires.
In other words, Elon was advocating, at least in part, for the legal immigration of highly qualified, very productive people, from Elon’s perspective of owning a tech company.
Based on the ferocious response, you would have thought Elon called for opening the borders even wider, or for mandatory mint flavoring to be added to all commercially sold ice cream, ruining it (of course), or something even worse, like saying UFO’s don’t exist. Familiar conservative accounts tore Elon a new one, calling him woke, stupid, and nappy-headed, and screamed he should be deported back to South Africa on the first available flight. More than one conservative influencer demanded Elon be immediately ‘fired’ from his volunteer job with the Department of Government Efficiency.
It was the best news ever for corporate media. Finally, an immigration hammer to hand conservatives so they could beat each other to death. Here’s how Rolling Stone gleefully described the burgeoning red-on-red controversy. It began with Musk’s original comment:
In 2016, Trump did argue on CNN that the H1-B Visa is bad for workers, unfair, and should be ended (Clip: 0:24), but he’d used it before, because businesspeople must use the visas otherwise competitors will get an advantage. More recently, Trump has signaled that students graduating from American universities should automatically get a green card (Clip: 2:05). Trump did not weigh in yesterday.
Bottom line, Elon’s honeymoon is officially over, and the wedding party must swim back to the mainland through shark-infested waters. Elon’s stock with some MAGA types had clearly fallen below zero yesterday. Buying and freeing twitter? Who cares! Funding the Trump campaign? So what! Swinging Silicon Valley to MAGA? That’s old news! Elon favors H1-B work visas!
Now, you might think the argument over H1-B work visas is a pretty wonky and thinly sliced issue. You might think it is hardly the issue to torch the MAGA movement over. Stick with me. There’s a lot more to this, and it is dark.
Next, seeing his fellow DOGE-er being savaged in the comments, and noticing a lot of people were misunderstanding Elon’s point, Vivek Ramaswamy decided to spring to Elon’s defense. He landed right in the lion exhibit. Vivek uncharacteristically botched an obviously correct point about American culture not valuing STEM or academic achievement, not when compared to other cultures like Asians and (he should’ve omitted this one) Indians.
Vivek should have just said the American educational system has been hollowed out by wokeness so there are currently more good STEM graduates available from cultures that haven’t gone woke yet. But he went just that much further and things went sideways.
What followed next was some of the ugliest free speech you can imagine, with apparently respectable conservatives throwing around anti-Indian tropes so repugnant I won’t repeat them here. Think gas stations and motels and Apu from the Simpson’s and you’ll start to get the idea. People accused Vivek of racism, complained he smelled like Indian spices, and accused Vivek of wanting to replace Americans with his extended Indian family.
I wish I were exaggerating, but I’m hardly scratching the surface.
At some point in the afternoon, euphoric corporate media began piling on, triumphantly reporting the glorious Fall of Elon at the hands of “his own supporters.” It was the one time media failed to defend legal immigration. If anything, in its glee, corporate media even hinted darkly that H1-B visas might in fact be the worst thing ever, finding common cause with disgruntled anti-DOGE conservatives. Headline from the Washington Post:
Corporate media is so happy today.
For what it’s worth, I’m skeptical of H1-B visas. But nearly all Silicon Valley CEOs think they are critically needed, and I have no reason to doubt Elon’s good faith. So the issue deserves intelligent debate and inspection.
But, and this is a big but, H1-Bs seem like the least of our immigration problems right now.
I am not terrified of long-standing, well-known legal immigration. I am terrified about the unmonitored illegal immigration that is happening right now, as I write this, as our porous Southern Border continues to be overwhelmed by wave after wave of anonymous migrants, waves that we know for a fact include hardened criminals, serial killers, pedophiles, and terrorists. And I am deeply dissatisfied by Biden’s quasi-legal tricks like giving millions of aliens automatic asylum status, cash cards, and a free iPhone.
Given everything else going on at the moment, you’d have a hard time getting me worked up about legal immigration by productive people who’ve achieved post-graduate degrees and want to help American companies develop competitive, world-leading technologies. I get that DEI policies are punishing American engineers, who are being passed over for “diversity” (and probably also to save money, although how much is more debatable.)
The practical truth behind Vivek’s ‘culture’ comment is that most young foreigners in the U.S. on work visas are willing to work 14 hours a day. Why not? What else do they have to do? Meanwhile, native Americans have been browbeaten into “maintaining a work-life balance” and want to work 40 hours a week or fewer. Since both parents work in most American families, Dad can’t be off working all the time, since he needs to leave early to take Taylor to her dance recital. No judgment; it’s just the truth.
So this seems like a perfectly legitimate argument to hold. Should we erect legal barriers to stop single foreigners from competing against married American engineers? Should American companies be required to prove they’ve exhausted native-born options before hiring legal immigrants? Maybe. A reasonable discussion among people of good faith working to make a better country would be a fine way to handle it.
But … who wants to hold a time-consuming, intellectually demanding ‘reasonable discussion’ when you can just cancel your enemies on social media with slurs and zingers?
And that, dear friends, is how they are getting us.
vector7
Dot Collector
The superpower of the United States is the American citizen
RT 30secs
View: https://fxtwitter.com/KarluskaP/status/1872675120759890034?s=19
POSO- during Covid we were ruled by nerds, and it was a disaster
RT 3min
View: https://fxtwitter.com/KarluskaP/status/1872673624941023394?s=19
RT 30secs
View: https://fxtwitter.com/KarluskaP/status/1872675120759890034?s=19
POSO- during Covid we were ruled by nerds, and it was a disaster
RT 3min
View: https://fxtwitter.com/KarluskaP/status/1872673624941023394?s=19
Jez
Veteran Member
That has been my experience as well. It was very frustrating. In many ways I'm glad I've retired. Job hunting had become such a slog trying to get past the HR bulwark just to get a phone interview where you could find out what the job really required. Then there was all the entry level jobs that required 5 or more years of experience and paid crap. Then if you managed to get the job, no amount of hard work would lead to advancement or salary increases. If you wanted more money you had to find another job. Sorry for the rant. This topic hits a sensitive spot.
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
That is a language gap issue. That happens when you are not natively speaking the language of your customer base...
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I suspect this may be part of the plan. Get everything out there for everyone to see how crooked things are.
Seems I read somewhere he was on the spectrum.
Without agreeing or disagreeing with your statement look at the bigger picture.
1) erectric cars
2) spaceships
3) boring machines
4) an apparent spare bedroom at the President elect's crib
This isn't normal. Call him what you will but he's a force.
I thought he was a weirdo smokin' dope with Rogan.
Plain Jane
Just Plain Jane
A Highly Toxic Silicon Valley Meltdown Over Well Documented H1B Visa Fraud Explodes - The Last Refuge
The Silicon Valley immigration priority was not the topic I thought would explode and fracture the tenuous MAGA alignment with the New Big Tech group represented by Elon Musk and his billionaire network. However, we learn more every day. This is a jaw-dropping moment to watch unfold as a very...
theconservativetreehouse.com
A Highly Toxic Silicon Valley Meltdown Over Well Documented H1B Visa Fraud Explodes
December 28, 2024 | Sundance | 54 CommentsThe Silicon Valley immigration priority was not the topic I thought would explode and fracture the tenuous MAGA alignment with the New Big Tech group represented by Elon Musk and his billionaire network. However, we learn more every day.
This is a jaw-dropping moment to watch unfold as a very influential sector of the political discourse begins a full-frontal attack against those who are pointing out how the tech community abuse H1B visas to replace American workers. In the background, of course, is the context of widespread immigration policy fraud being one of the priorities for the average Trump supporter.
The Silicon Valley team do not seem to review discussion of the H1B manipulation/fraud within the larger American economy as a problem, as long as the discussion of the visa fraud does not impact their business models. However, as soon as the H1B abuse started to be framed around Silicon Valley’s participation therein, the New Big Tech group take a nuclear war approach to defending their interests.
[SOURCE]
Having followed the immigration issue for a long time, yet specifically only having a big picture review of the H1B visa issues, it has been astounding to watch how Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, David Sacks and the Silicon Valley supporters and influencers are responding to having the H1B visa fraud confronted. The self-interest in their defense is just astronomical to watch unfold.
Empowered by what can only be reasonably defined as their perceived influence over President Trump, the new-era Tech team are quite forcefully telling the MAGA base of Trump-supporting American workers that their concerns, views and perspectives are irrelevant.
It appears that most of the explosive sentiments revolve around H1B visas in the tech sector issued to Indian workers specifically. Apparently, the friendships, networks and teams attached to the sector of computer engineering carry with them an emotional component. I guess that should not be a surprise considering this is essentially a peer-to-peer wagon circling, in defense of the H1B visa problems in the tech sector.
As said before, it always appeared the MAGA alignment with Silicon Valley would not be an issue until the interests of the billionaire tech team came into conflict with the MAGA base. I did not anticipate the fracture being so fast, nor did I anticipate immigration would be the trigger. However, H1B visa issuance is apparently a key part of the Silicon Valley business model.
That said, several pragmatic aspects of the discussion are now being lost amid a very toxic shouting match that has begun. President Trump and JD Vance are, perhaps understandably, staying very quiet at the moment. However, that silence is soon to be impossible as both sides of a very divisive issue are going to eventually demand President Trump to weigh in.
I will try to cut through some of the toxic noise so that we can discuss the larger issues.
Theo Wold provides some context:
(Theo Wold was already posted and is at the link below.)
Post in thread 'The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans - Vivek Ramaswamy' POL - The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans - Vivek Ramaswamy
Within the debate, those who advocate for the H1B visa process are quick to call anyone a “racist” or “nativist” who stands against it. Within the tech industry the use of H1B is positioned as vital for their success.
As can be noted by the extreme position on the pro-H1B side of the discussion, they view this debate as a zero-sum contest. The position of Musk and the Silicon Valley tech group is that if the H1B process is stopped, American technological advancements will immediately cease to exist.
When it is pointed out that Silicon Valley discriminates against white Americans with engineering degrees and or skills, Silicon Valley shouts back the same arguments as the DEI promoters Musk claims to abhor. Musk and the tech group immediately use the Alinsky attack method (isolate, ridicule, marginalize) against anyone who speaks forcefully against their interests. The Musk allies and influencers then pile on. It is something remarkable to watch happen.
Years of Americans in various business sectors being forced to train their foreign replacements before the Americans are terminated from employment, underscore a very hardened stance against the H1B abuse. The decision by the Silicon Valley network to dismiss this problem because they want to sustain their current business operations is not going to end well unless some cooler heads immediately intercede.
Nicole Shanahan, Robert F Kennedy’s former running mate – and also a Silicon Valley network influencer, puts it this way:
“Having lived in Silicon Valley for 20+ years and founded and sold an AI company, I’ve seen firsthand how we rely on H-1B to fill grueling, unglamorous coding jobs. These jobs are essential, and we need capable people doing them. But the system needs an overhaul.
Here’s why:
To keep pace with global competitors like China and India, we need Americans ready to tackle the challenging jobs in these fields. We have them, but often our STEM grads turn their noses up at these entry-level, low-paying coding positions after investing in a costly education.So why are immigrants from India, China, and elsewhere so eager for these jobs? It’s not because they’re glamorous or because these roles don’t exist back home. And definitely not because they offer high salaries. There’s something else driving this…
The undeniable proof that the United States is the single greatest nation on earth is that people from every corner of the globe dream of coming here—not to China or India—but America.
I take issue with some of the discourse I’ve read online today suggesting “lazy American culture” is the main driver for why we need to continue the H-1B program. Let’s be real: tech companies getting massive breaks on cheap labor at the expense of the American way of life is predatory.
Blaming our culture for why American STEM grads won’t take underpaying jobs is ridiculous and insulting.
The system we’ve constructed with H-1B visas, whether we like it or not, incentivizes people to come here and serve as essentially indentured servants for Big Tech, taking on the tough, grueling jobs that few here in America are excited to perform at the current suppressed salaries.
In return, if you’re good at your job, you’re then put on a fast track to get a Green Card, which means legal status and the chance to bring your family over through chain migration.
I’m reminded of this famous line by our second President, John Adams: “I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.”
Just because our kids have the “right” to chase artistic dreams like music and painting, doesn’t mean we should bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers to displace them in math-intensive careers. It’s a two-fold issue: both our education and immigration policies are broken. Instead of tackling these complex issues head-on, Big Tech monopolies and tech VCs are looking for the fastest way to outcompete globally and become industry giants. It’s paid off—look at the insane valuations of these companies!
We can’t entirely blame them for this approach—it’s been the industry norm for 40 years—but we can insist they seek out the tough, lasting solutions. No more temporary fixes.
I was asked if teaching American kids coding from a younger age would make them want these coding jobs. My response? No, it won’t. These jobs aren’t fun, people.
But, do I think removing the incentive of attaining legal status would reduce the volume of foreign applicants? Absolutely.
And, guess what? That might finally force Big Tech to look for workers right here at home (and pay them a competitive wage). Americans expect fair pay, which means these companies would have to start sharing their wealth rather than hoarding it.
Meritocracy is key to America’s greatness, but so are justice and fairness—we shouldn’t keep rewarding an industry that has curtailed free speech and American values. After Trump’s recent victory, the everyday worker feels empowered like never before. They won’t surrender that power, and frankly, it’s not right to imply they should.
There are numerous ways to improve our immigration system while safeguarding the American labor force (and I say “force” because it truly is capable, creative, and powerful).
Here are two straightforward steps to start the process:
1. Immigration policy must be designed to protect the American way of life and its workforce. Singapore’s work permit program, which they designed in the ’90s, was built from this standard and could provide good inspiration. They use a modern-day designation system to manage the influx of labor across various sectors.
⁃ Employers face levies (essentially fees that employers have to pay for each foreign worker they hire. It’s a way to manage the number of foreign workers coming in by making it more expensive to employ them, encouraging companies to also look for talent locally).
⁃ There are Dependency Ceilings, which essentially limit the number of foreign workers based on the local workforce—this is KEY.
⁃ They impose restrictions on the countries from which workers can come.
⁃ Permits are diversified across industries to ensure balance.
2. Special economic zones are amazing and can transform local tech job markets. Hiring locally is going to be critical for making sure Americans are taking key tech industry roles AND able to support their families.
If we really want to lift America to heights unseen in generations—not just talk about it, but actually do it—then we can’t continue to stick to outdated strategies that have harmed Americans. We owe it to ourselves and our communities to aim higher and do better.” (source)
As I watch this debate unfold, I find myself finally realizing why all the Silicon Valley tech people were such staunch Democrats. Their worldview does not: (1) seem to comprehend American Economic Nationalism as a priority; (2) seem to appreciate the importance of true liberty in the creation of the remarkable outcomes from American exceptionalism; and (#3) they appear to be inside a bubble of self-interest, unattached and unaffected by the economic issues that have seriously harmed the MAGA base.
In essence, the Silicon Valley network represented by Elon Musk team, does not connect in the same way to the important priorities of middle America. The technocrats are, well, Technocrats.
Watching this debate unfold is quite remarkable.
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Cascadians
Leska Emerald Adams
Nicole Shanahan has turned out to be impressive. Her campaign videos definitely helped Trump win. She has a brain and she is not afraid to look at issues factually without getting defensive or hysterical.
Initially I was like Hell No about her but am now glad she has a voice at the table.
The H1B issue needs to be reformed and solved now, and it will take diverse calm intelligence and strong will to do it.
Musk and Vivek are too emotionally blinded. Musk has basically shown he is capable of autistic meltdowns in public. He is not emotionally mature enough to be in charge. He has to learn to think, be factual and control himself.
Poor Trump, along with all the other Cabal crap he has to deal with, he's going to have to mentor these full grown temper tantrum toddlers.
Initially I was like Hell No about her but am now glad she has a voice at the table.
The H1B issue needs to be reformed and solved now, and it will take diverse calm intelligence and strong will to do it.
Musk and Vivek are too emotionally blinded. Musk has basically shown he is capable of autistic meltdowns in public. He is not emotionally mature enough to be in charge. He has to learn to think, be factual and control himself.
Poor Trump, along with all the other Cabal crap he has to deal with, he's going to have to mentor these full grown temper tantrum toddlers.
Trump or Vance need to make a statement on what the position of the administration is. This is getting very ugly on X.
@elonmusk
The reason I’m in America along with so many critical people who built SpaceX, Tesla and hundreds of other companies that made America strong is because of H1B.
Take a big step back and **** YOURSELF in the face. I will go to war on this issue the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend.
View: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1872860577057448306
@elonmusk
The reason I’m in America along with so many critical people who built SpaceX, Tesla and hundreds of other companies that made America strong is because of H1B.
Take a big step back and **** YOURSELF in the face. I will go to war on this issue the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend.
View: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1872860577057448306
Buick Electra
Member of the Early Bird Club
EXCELLENT READ!!! 
I suddenly like Nicole Shanahan more!
I suddenly like Nicole Shanahan more!A Highly Toxic Silicon Valley Meltdown Over Well Documented H1B Visa Fraud Explodes - The Last Refuge
The Silicon Valley immigration priority was not the topic I thought would explode and fracture the tenuous MAGA alignment with the New Big Tech group represented by Elon Musk and his billionaire network. However, we learn more every day. This is a jaw-dropping moment to watch unfold as a very...
A Highly Toxic Silicon Valley Meltdown Over Well Documented H1B Visa Fraud Explodes
December 28, 2024 | Sundance | 54 Comments
The Silicon Valley immigration priority was not the topic I thought would explode and fracture the tenuous MAGA alignment with the New Big Tech group represented by Elon Musk and his billionaire network. However, we learn more every day.
This is a jaw-dropping moment to watch unfold as a very influential sector of the political discourse begins a full-frontal attack against those who are pointing out how the tech community abuse H1B visas to replace American workers. In the background, of course, is the context of widespread immigration policy fraud being one of the priorities for the average Trump supporter.
The Silicon Valley team do not seem to review discussion of the H1B manipulation/fraud within the larger American economy as a problem, as long as the discussion of the visa fraud does not impact their business models. However, as soon as the H1B abuse started to be framed around Silicon Valley’s participation therein, the New Big Tech group take a nuclear war approach to defending their interests.
[SOURCE]
Having followed the immigration issue for a long time, yet specifically only having a big picture review of the H1B visa issues, it has been astounding to watch how Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, David Sacks and the Silicon Valley supporters and influencers are responding to having the H1B visa fraud confronted. The self-interest in their defense is just astronomical to watch unfold.
Empowered by what can only be reasonably defined as their perceived influence over President Trump, the new-era Tech team are quite forcefully telling the MAGA base of Trump-supporting American workers that their concerns, views and perspectives are irrelevant.
It appears that most of the explosive sentiments revolve around H1B visas in the tech sector issued to Indian workers specifically. Apparently, the friendships, networks and teams attached to the sector of computer engineering carry with them an emotional component. I guess that should not be a surprise considering this is essentially a peer-to-peer wagon circling, in defense of the H1B visa problems in the tech sector.
As said before, it always appeared the MAGA alignment with Silicon Valley would not be an issue until the interests of the billionaire tech team came into conflict with the MAGA base. I did not anticipate the fracture being so fast, nor did I anticipate immigration would be the trigger. However, H1B visa issuance is apparently a key part of the Silicon Valley business model.
That said, several pragmatic aspects of the discussion are now being lost amid a very toxic shouting match that has begun. President Trump and JD Vance are, perhaps understandably, staying very quiet at the moment. However, that silence is soon to be impossible as both sides of a very divisive issue are going to eventually demand President Trump to weigh in.
I will try to cut through some of the toxic noise so that we can discuss the larger issues.
Theo Wold provides some context:
(Theo Wold was already posted and is at the link below.)
Post in thread 'The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans - Vivek Ramaswamy' POL - The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans - Vivek Ramaswamy
Within the debate, those who advocate for the H1B visa process are quick to call anyone a “racist” or “nativist” who stands against it. Within the tech industry the use of H1B is positioned as vital for their success.
As can be noted by the extreme position on the pro-H1B side of the discussion, they view this debate as a zero-sum contest. The position of Musk and the Silicon Valley tech group is that if the H1B process is stopped, American technological advancements will immediately cease to exist.
When it is pointed out that Silicon Valley discriminates against white Americans with engineering degrees and or skills, Silicon Valley shouts back the same arguments as the DEI promoters Musk claims to abhor. Musk and the tech group immediately use the Alinsky attack method (isolate, ridicule, marginalize) against anyone who speaks forcefully against their interests. The Musk allies and influencers then pile on. It is something remarkable to watch happen.
Years of Americans in various business sectors being forced to train their foreign replacements before the Americans are terminated from employment, underscore a very hardened stance against the H1B abuse. The decision by the Silicon Valley network to dismiss this problem because they want to sustain their current business operations is not going to end well unless some cooler heads immediately intercede.
Nicole Shanahan, Robert F Kennedy’s former running mate – and also a Silicon Valley network influencer, puts it this way:
“Having lived in Silicon Valley for 20+ years and founded and sold an AI company, I’ve seen firsthand how we rely on H-1B to fill grueling, unglamorous coding jobs. These jobs are essential, and we need capable people doing them. But the system needs an overhaul.
Here’s why:
To keep pace with global competitors like China and India, we need Americans ready to tackle the challenging jobs in these fields. We have them, but often our STEM grads turn their noses up at these entry-level, low-paying coding positions after investing in a costly education.
So why are immigrants from India, China, and elsewhere so eager for these jobs? It’s not because they’re glamorous or because these roles don’t exist back home. And definitely not because they offer high salaries. There’s something else driving this…
The undeniable proof that the United States is the single greatest nation on earth is that people from every corner of the globe dream of coming here—not to China or India—but America.
I take issue with some of the discourse I’ve read online today suggesting “lazy American culture” is the main driver for why we need to continue the H-1B program. Let’s be real: tech companies getting massive breaks on cheap labor at the expense of the American way of life is predatory.
Blaming our culture for why American STEM grads won’t take underpaying jobs is ridiculous and insulting.
The system we’ve constructed with H-1B visas, whether we like it or not, incentivizes people to come here and serve as essentially indentured servants for Big Tech, taking on the tough, grueling jobs that few here in America are excited to perform at the current suppressed salaries.
In return, if you’re good at your job, you’re then put on a fast track to get a Green Card, which means legal status and the chance to bring your family over through chain migration.
I’m reminded of this famous line by our second President, John Adams: “I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.”
Just because our kids have the “right” to chase artistic dreams like music and painting, doesn’t mean we should bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers to displace them in math-intensive careers. It’s a two-fold issue: both our education and immigration policies are broken. Instead of tackling these complex issues head-on, Big Tech monopolies and tech VCs are looking for the fastest way to outcompete globally and become industry giants. It’s paid off—look at the insane valuations of these companies!
We can’t entirely blame them for this approach—it’s been the industry norm for 40 years—but we can insist they seek out the tough, lasting solutions. No more temporary fixes.
I was asked if teaching American kids coding from a younger age would make them want these coding jobs. My response? No, it won’t. These jobs aren’t fun, people.
But, do I think removing the incentive of attaining legal status would reduce the volume of foreign applicants? Absolutely.
And, guess what? That might finally force Big Tech to look for workers right here at home (and pay them a competitive wage). Americans expect fair pay, which means these companies would have to start sharing their wealth rather than hoarding it.
Meritocracy is key to America’s greatness, but so are justice and fairness—we shouldn’t keep rewarding an industry that has curtailed free speech and American values. After Trump’s recent victory, the everyday worker feels empowered like never before. They won’t surrender that power, and frankly, it’s not right to imply they should.
There are numerous ways to improve our immigration system while safeguarding the American labor force (and I say “force” because it truly is capable, creative, and powerful).
Here are two straightforward steps to start the process:
1. Immigration policy must be designed to protect the American way of life and its workforce. Singapore’s work permit program, which they designed in the ’90s, was built from this standard and could provide good inspiration. They use a modern-day designation system to manage the influx of labor across various sectors.
⁃ Employers face levies (essentially fees that employers have to pay for each foreign worker they hire. It’s a way to manage the number of foreign workers coming in by making it more expensive to employ them, encouraging companies to also look for talent locally).
⁃ There are Dependency Ceilings, which essentially limit the number of foreign workers based on the local workforce—this is KEY.
⁃ They impose restrictions on the countries from which workers can come.
⁃ Permits are diversified across industries to ensure balance.
2. Special economic zones are amazing and can transform local tech job markets. Hiring locally is going to be critical for making sure Americans are taking key tech industry roles AND able to support their families.
If we really want to lift America to heights unseen in generations—not just talk about it, but actually do it—then we can’t continue to stick to outdated strategies that have harmed Americans. We owe it to ourselves and our communities to aim higher and do better.” (source)
As I watch this debate unfold, I find myself finally realizing why all the Silicon Valley tech people were such staunch Democrats. Their worldview does not: (1) seem to comprehend American Economic Nationalism as a priority; (2) seem to appreciate the importance of true liberty in the creation of the remarkable outcomes from American exceptionalism; and (#3) they appear to be inside a bubble of self-interest, unattached and unaffected by the economic issues that have seriously harmed the MAGA base.
In essence, the Silicon Valley network represented by Elon Musk team, does not connect in the same way to the important priorities of middle America. The technocrats are, well, Technocrats.
Watching this debate unfold is quite remarkable.
Last edited:
Buick Electra
Member of the Early Bird Club
A Highly Toxic Silicon Valley Meltdown Over Well Documented H1B Visa Fraud Explodes - The Last Refuge
The Silicon Valley immigration priority was not the topic I thought would explode and fracture the tenuous MAGA alignment with the New Big Tech group represented by Elon Musk and his billionaire network. However, we learn more every day. This is a jaw-dropping moment to watch unfold as a very...
theconservativetreehouse.com
Buick Electra
Member of the Early Bird Club
And so the battle begins…Vivek the Snake has definitely exposed himself as the globalist he is and Musk??? Just can’t seem to find the words to describe him accurately. At least Vivek had the good sense to not ingratiate himself into Trump’s family circle.
Buick Electra
Member of the Early Bird Club
There are thousands of jobs in this country that ARE tedious, repetitive, boring, and physically exhausting, i.e factory work. But if they pay enough then people will take them. They may not stay in them forever but they will stay for a while.
Buick Electra
Member of the Early Bird Club
Why not put Tariffs on H1b Visas?
Cascadians
Leska Emerald Adams
The whole system needs to be gutted and re-built from the ground up emphasizing America First, compassion, merit, sanity, fairness.
For centuries special interests have carved out their societal niches to the detriment of humanity.
For centuries special interests have carved out their societal niches to the detriment of humanity.
Buick Electra
Member of the Early Bird Club
Cascadians
Leska Emerald Adams
The Can Of Worms has been blown wide open.
Cascadians
Leska Emerald Adams
Government sponsored human trafficking.
Those who benefit are too money entangled irate to even see how their attitude makes them Monsters.
Monsters do not win popularity contests.
Those who benefit are too money entangled irate to even see how their attitude makes them Monsters.
Monsters do not win popularity contests.
Buick Electra
Member of the Early Bird Club
Looks like Musk is striking back at free speech....
View: https://twitter.com/NickJFuentes/status/1872794025943810498
View: https://twitter.com/NickJFuentes/status/1872794025943810498