Just one of the reasons why it is so important we take back the educational system in this country from the libs/progs. But that amount of damage will not be cured overnight. And not without a real fight.
POL The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans - Vivek Ramaswamy
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Just one of the reasons why it is so important we take back the educational system in this country from the libs/progs. But that amount of damage will not be cured overnight. And not without a real fight.
Dux
Veteran Member
My first real job out of grad school was very hard to get (1983). It helped that a classmate recommended me. That classmate was from Germany. He got a green card after the company advertised his position. "Must have" a PhD and x years of experience in PL1 programming in the telephone industry, or some such. That was observed with a smile back then, because we wanted him to stay.
A healthy dose of skepticism is essential when dealing with politicians of any flavor, self-made or not. We don’t need any more sycophants in the world.
That said, even a broke clock is right twice a day. And Vivek being right about this does not automatically mean that those concerned with the H1-B visa issues and the money issues are wrong.
Thunderdragon
Veteran Member
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Buick Electra
Member of the Early Bird Club
Zardoz
Veteran Member
An insider's perspective...
Most Westerners know nothing about India beyond vague ideas about Hinduism, yoga, gurus, and maybe a dash of Bollywood. To such people, this article will be a rude awakening...
www.zerohedge.com
Most Westerners know nothing about India beyond vague ideas about Hinduism, yoga, gurus, and maybe a dash of Bollywood. To such people, this article will be a rude awakening...
India: It's Worse Than You Think | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
How did DOGE go from “let’s cut wasteful government spending” to “here’s why we need to import more immigrants” almost overnight?
I don’t think it does. Vivek has a wide range of opinions outside of his job description. He may (or may not) ultimately do a good job at DOGE. But he is a person and is entitled to an opinion(s) on other topics the same as every other person out there. He’s just more vocal - with a soap box - and stands out as a result.
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Southside
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Teaching to the lowest common denominator. It is the primary means of destruction of the education system.
helen
Panic Sex Lady
Vivek is pushing this narrative that America doesn't have what it needs exactly as a new H-1b law is being enacted that makes it easier to get in and harder to get booted out.
He's done everything you hate. Check him out. America has plenty of highly educated and motivated people for every job we have.
He's done everything you hate. Check him out. America has plenty of highly educated and motivated people for every job we have.
Especially when they've required "mainstreaming" profoundly handicapped kids..even with a full time "aide", it slows the whole class down.
Summerthyme
Southside
Has No Life - Lives on TB
If you're not on a few, your too nice.
That's what I'm sayin'!
Highly educated by what standards? I’ve dealt with “highly educated” people for close on 45 years at this point, starting with a decade of working at a university. I’m not impressed by sheepskins on the wall.
What we need in this country, regardless of skin color or origin or any other excuse people seems to want to drag in to the discussion, is innovation. Being able to do what someone else does is not innovation. We need people that can do what other people cannot or will not do. And from my experience those type of people are as rare as hen’s teeth.
In my mind, it is akin to how many people own and run their own business vs. working in someone else’s business. There is a different mindset that is necessary. Unfortunately the so-called educational system in this country has been co-opted into something where people are taught to be a cog in someone else’s wheel. Even the kids in AP tracts in high school are more taught about excelling to work for someone else as opposed to excelling so you don’t have to work for someone else.
Ractivist
Pride comes before the fall.....Pride month ended.
The communists control the curriculum, and the kids are dumbed down intentionally, and sexualized early, and likely often. A smart kid with a mentor, family or teacher, has a chance to excel....unfortunately, the kids who are just there because they have to go to school, often fall thru those huge cracks. The schools have teachers who are fully indoctrinated in this new society of ours. They vote progressive as a whole....and allow their union dues to go to the progressive party.
Education will be the hardest system to purge or fix....the teachers are useful idiots more often than not. Many are not very smart either.
Plain Jane
Just Plain Jane
Someone mentioned that vocational Ed needs to be restored to the schools. Unfortunately the schools cannot afford to do that and also mainstream handicapped students and those with behavior disorders. It's too dangerous for both the students and the regular students around them and liability insurance doesn't cover it
Those classes were being phased out in the 90s even though trades, manufacturing, and the military were begging the schools to keep the programs.
subnet
Boot
I was an FTE until the new CIO came aboard and farmed out all of IT infrastructure playing the shell game to make it look like he was saving the company money ("because everyone is doing it" his words to me), it looked good at first we were "swimming in money" as he put it ....now.... we are somehow in the hole again? Weird
Anyhow, the CEO of the staffing company we were moved to refused to hire more bodies for some jobs because "he could hire off shore for 7 bucks an hour".
IT staffing companies should be illegal or only able to keep 20% of whats charged per employee imo
Anyhow, the CEO of the staffing company we were moved to refused to hire more bodies for some jobs because "he could hire off shore for 7 bucks an hour".
IT staffing companies should be illegal or only able to keep 20% of whats charged per employee imo
Blacknarwhal
Three-Time Trump Voter
Yeah, tell me about how American "culture" produces "lesser" employees after they've been systematically undervalued in favor of cheerful slave labor for decades.
Thunderdragon
Veteran Member
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greysage
Gold Level Member
Those were well on the way out in the late 80's at my high school. I remember asking about those classes, and the guidance counselor said, "You're all going to college." We all did not.
It didn’t. But everyone on this thread is laser-focused on one thing they said. Stare at the flame long enough and get attracted into it.
Most American parents no longer raise their children they just watch them get taller.
momma_soapmaker
Disgusted
Our 28 yr old DS worked his arse off for his Civil Engineering degree, graduating at the top of his class. He has a strong work ethic, instilled by us at a young age.
He would vehemently disagree with Mr. Ramaswamy's opinions.
He would vehemently disagree with Mr. Ramaswamy's opinions.
Jez
Veteran Member
It's been my experience that the only reason companies really hire foreign IT workers is cost. They are cheaper, up front. The problem is that you usually have to have someone else, usually an American IT person, come in behind them to fix the crap that the foreigners created and make it actually work. First level IT support goes to India or somewhere near because it's cheaper. I've never meat anyone who actually had a good experience contacting 1st level support.
Though the most epic support call conversation I have ever listened to was when our Filipino senior engineer had to call HP support that was in India. Neither person could understand each other and it was getting extremely heated by the time I left to go do something else. I think everyone found another reason why they needed to be in the data center's server room because we couldn't help but laugh our asses off.
Here's another interesting thought to consider. Once upon a time, America had one of the strongest manufacturing economies. That helped us win WWII. A few generations down, we have sold off our manufacturing capabilities to become a service oriented job market. Welp, just a short term later they are trying to ship off those service jobs to foreign places. You have to wonder, how the hell is an American worker supposed to make a living now?
Though the most epic support call conversation I have ever listened to was when our Filipino senior engineer had to call HP support that was in India. Neither person could understand each other and it was getting extremely heated by the time I left to go do something else. I think everyone found another reason why they needed to be in the data center's server room because we couldn't help but laugh our asses off.
Here's another interesting thought to consider. Once upon a time, America had one of the strongest manufacturing economies. That helped us win WWII. A few generations down, we have sold off our manufacturing capabilities to become a service oriented job market. Welp, just a short term later they are trying to ship off those service jobs to foreign places. You have to wonder, how the hell is an American worker supposed to make a living now?
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Jez
Veteran Member
I've heard it called "feed them and let them grow." It's a roll of the dice on how they turn out as an adult.
Jez
Veteran Member
And people accuse Americans of being racists.
So I would like to point out something. Did anyone read the comments under that thread on twitter or post how Viviek responded to the criticism? I see a lot of critical post about what he said. But none on this thread about how he responded to those critical posts.
I did. And for every critical response that gave a specific example of how Americans pulled ahead or did outstanding jobs he said " That's the America I want to return to." Saw three like that and stopped reading.
He is trying to help build this country back up. If it takes a few Indian geniuses to do that then so be it. Until we get rid of DEI and everyone get s trophy requirements for hiring. White men will not have a chance. Stupid shit leftist ideals is what is required to get hired right now.
If everyone thinks Trump being in office is going to put every white man back to work in top paying jobs and it is going to be the 1950's all over again, you all better wake up. Those days are gone. Can it get better? I sure hope so. White men might actually stand a chance again.
FFFS give the guys a chance. They haven't even started yet.
I did. And for every critical response that gave a specific example of how Americans pulled ahead or did outstanding jobs he said " That's the America I want to return to." Saw three like that and stopped reading.
He is trying to help build this country back up. If it takes a few Indian geniuses to do that then so be it. Until we get rid of DEI and everyone get s trophy requirements for hiring. White men will not have a chance. Stupid shit leftist ideals is what is required to get hired right now.
If everyone thinks Trump being in office is going to put every white man back to work in top paying jobs and it is going to be the 1950's all over again, you all better wake up. Those days are gone. Can it get better? I sure hope so. White men might actually stand a chance again.
FFFS give the guys a chance. They haven't even started yet.
That is BS. Even Health care can't get qualified white people. You of all people should know that.
Cascadians
Leska Emerald Adams
Well this topic has ignited a heated cesspool of hurt feelings on Twitter.
Musk is shadow banning Loomer and the fireworks are setting off.
GOOD. These issues need to be discussed and viable AMERICA FIRST remedies implemented.
Looks like hypocrisy and power mongers are busy outting themselves.
We are not going to progress until these issues are debated hashed out and solved.
Musk is shadow banning Loomer and the fireworks are setting off.
GOOD. These issues need to be discussed and viable AMERICA FIRST remedies implemented.
Looks like hypocrisy and power mongers are busy outting themselves.
We are not going to progress until these issues are debated hashed out and solved.
helen
Panic Sex Lady
"Qualified white people" - let's call them "qualified natural born American citizens" instead of a crayon color - those people quit healthcare because they won't work like robots and let corporate managers make medical decisions.
H-1b medical staff are held hostage just like any other professional with a provisional visa.
Redleg
Veteran Member
Worked with a guy years ago who's girlfriend was a H-1b worker with an engineering master's degree who knew she was getting a lot less pay than a US engineer, I think $30K/yr back then, who couldn't do anything about it because of the restrictions on the H-1b holder. Again, follow the $$$$ is why the big tech companies like them H-1b people.
I get it, I really do.
But do you know any QUALIFIED American Engineers that are having a hard time finding a job?
I used the term White people because DEI hiring practices are getting color crayons jobs. This thread is about Indian people you know BROWN people. So it is about color and ethnicity. That is really what the OP beef is about. Vivek, or specifically Big Tech bringing in cheaper help. It is White American males that are being pushed out of the work force. Females have no issue finding jobs. In fact (unless a Hospital CEO) if a qualified man or woman apply for the job, and he is white, she will get it.
Because these white men can't get hired, then hiring in a H-b1 visa person is even more irritating. I get all that. I used Healthcare professionals to prove my point. Nurses and MDs move on all the time for better pay and they move a lot. Many are travelers now because the pay is so good. NO ONE is taking their place.
In fact in the 90's bringing in Philippine RN's was a big thing. They even set them up in an apartment as long as they stayed two years. Did they do all that because it was cheaper? No, it was because they needed bodies. Plane tickets, Rent, and getting them set up for the first month does not make them cheaper. They may make less, but it still cost the hospital just as much.
It has been on going in this country. Our colleges are shit. Our kids ( with the exception of a few) cannot do math, even less can read decently.
Our birth rate has dropped significantly. Think about for each married couple most have ONE child. that is 2/3 less than boomers who are now aging out. As they had on average 3 kids each. There are not enough workers for certain types of jobs in the US. And of that up and coming 1/3 probably 1/3 of those are either woke, or just plain lazy and expect 100K year jobs and only want to work part-time for it.
There are a ton of workers in the US yes, qualified for certain fields? NO. And if you are a white male you can't even get the job. They will let it go unfilled for awhile and work on trying to steal someone from some other company. Also known as head hunting.
helen
Panic Sex Lady
Foreign. Not crayon colors.
Vivek says we need foreign H-1b workers because America isn't good enough to produce the workers we need.
He was born here. He is a natural born American citizen. He is early-30's and likely positioning himself to run for Vice President with Vance.
He wasn't a great CEO of his pharmaceutical company. They lost money. He pushed DEI in his company.
Now there is a new law about to take effect that will increase H-1b worker numbers and make it much harder to send them back home.
Elon made his platform into a tool to get Americans to protest the pork bill disguised as a continuing resolution, and it worked.
Elon and Vivek do not want Americans to protest the new H-1b law about to take effect.
So, they push the false narrative that Americans aren't educated well enough to fill all jobs in IT. Americans outperform the world in STEM classes. That's the truth. Americans don't want to be indentured slaves for big corporations.
It's not about skin color at all. It's about importing slave labor legally and driving down wages for Americans so corporations make more money. But hey, Americans can mow lawns for a living after the bottom-tier illegal workers are forced out.
Vivek says we need foreign H-1b workers because America isn't good enough to produce the workers we need.
He was born here. He is a natural born American citizen. He is early-30's and likely positioning himself to run for Vice President with Vance.
He wasn't a great CEO of his pharmaceutical company. They lost money. He pushed DEI in his company.
Now there is a new law about to take effect that will increase H-1b worker numbers and make it much harder to send them back home.
Elon made his platform into a tool to get Americans to protest the pork bill disguised as a continuing resolution, and it worked.
Elon and Vivek do not want Americans to protest the new H-1b law about to take effect.
So, they push the false narrative that Americans aren't educated well enough to fill all jobs in IT. Americans outperform the world in STEM classes. That's the truth. Americans don't want to be indentured slaves for big corporations.
It's not about skin color at all. It's about importing slave labor legally and driving down wages for Americans so corporations make more money. But hey, Americans can mow lawns for a living after the bottom-tier illegal workers are forced out.
Sacajawea
Has No Life - Lives on TB
There was a loss of respect of for those people from the C-suites and administrators. I saw this happen. "Any warm body" - especially one who came cheaper than someone with heavy student loans - was slotted into positions they had no business being in and everyone else had fix what they blew up or muddled so badly (2nd language issues) that interfaces were totally unusable.
Another point to add here, is that "more Tech" is simply not the answer to every problem. It needs to be BETTER Tech. In healthcare, the issues are different. Starting with the danged insurance "gatekeeping" and reducing the amount of doctor to patient time to sheer drive-bys.
ShyGirl
Veteran Member
I don't blame the foreign workers or their race, although for me they were hard to understand and were below par technical workers. I blame the big corporations who wanted cheap slaves and had no idea how to treat technical people. Maybe if this new bill stops the abuse and low pay enabled by the previous H-1B visa law we could start getting back to making things in this country. I still believe in our technical skills and innate out-of-the-box thinking but I think it is going to take time to get the number of workers up to where we need it. You've got to want to do a STEM type job because it isn't easy and if it doesn't pay or you are treated bad you'll do other work and play around with the technical stuff as a hobby. This change is not going to happen overnight especially considering how long the abuse went on. I also think that the companies are going to have to start looking for those people who are playing with the tech for fun but working at a job they hate for the pay. I think we have a lot of talent right here now that just don't have the piece of paper because it wasn't worth the crummy pay. Instead of recruiting foreigners why not find interesting ways to find and recruit Americans with that strange technical bent. Most important of all, RAISE THE PAY!
WriterMom
Veteran Member
That was very interesting. I know little about Indian culture, but if this article is accurate, I'm not sure I want to know more.An insider's perspective...
Most Westerners know nothing about India beyond vague ideas about Hinduism, yoga, gurus, and maybe a dash of Bollywood. To such people, this article will be a rude awakening...
India: It's Worse Than You Think | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
I did visit a Hindu temple one time, as a friend of mine participated in a special religious custom/ritual and invited me to attend. I was amazed at the amount of gold given as offerings and adorning the various statues of gods!
