POL The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans - Vivek Ramaswamy

Dash

Veteran Member
@VivekGRamaswamy

The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans isn’t because of an innate American IQ deficit (a lazy & wrong explanation). A key part of it comes down to the c-word: culture. Tough questions demand tough answers & if we’re really serious about fixing the problem, we have to confront the TRUTH:

Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long (at least since the 90s and likely longer). That doesn’t start in college, it starts YOUNG.

A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympiad champ, or the jock over the valedictorian, will not produce the best engineers.

A culture that venerates Cory from “Boy Meets World,” or Zach & Slater over Screech in “Saved by the Bell,” or ‘Stefan’ over Steve Urkel in “Family Matters,” will not produce the best engineers.

(Fact: I know *multiple* sets of immigrant parents in the 90s who actively limited how much their kids could watch those TV shows precisely because they promoted mediocrity…and their kids went on to become wildly successful STEM graduates).

More movies like Whiplash, fewer reruns of “Friends.” More math tutoring, fewer sleepovers. More weekend science competitions, fewer Saturday morning cartoons. More books, less TV. More creating, less “chillin.” More extracurriculars, less “hanging out at the mall.”

Most normal American parents look skeptically at “those kinds of parents.” More normal American kids view such “those kinds of kids” with scorn. If you grow up aspiring to normalcy, normalcy is what you will achieve.

Now close your eyes & visualize which families you knew in the 90s (or even now) who raise their kids according to one model versus the other. Be brutally honest.

“Normalcy” doesn’t cut it in a hyper-competitive global market for technical talent. And if we pretend like it does, we’ll have our asses handed to us by China.

This can be our Sputnik moment. We’ve awaken from slumber before & we can do it again. Trump’s election hopefully marks the beginning of a new golden era in America, but only if our culture fully wakes up. A culture that once again prioritizes achievement over normalcy; excellence over mediocrity; nerdiness over conformity; hard work over laziness.

That’s the work we have cut out for us, rather than wallowing in victimhood & just wishing (or legislating) alternative hiring practices into existence. I’m confident we can do it.

View: https://twitter.com/vivekgramaswamy/status/1872312139945234507
 

Dash

Veteran Member
Vivek couldn’t be more wrong. He is completely discounting that it was American exceptionalism that led to the greatest achievements of the last 150 years…that put men on the moon…

There is one reason why tech companies import tech talent - money.

I didn’t have a problem with Vivek until now. I thought he was a dynamic thinker and a great asset to the Trump team. His agenda is now clear. I will view everything he does going forward with skepticism.

He’s also a hypocrite. He was proudly posting videos of his son doing push-ups with Pete Hegseth at the Army/Navy game just a few weeks ago. Surely his son’s time would’ve been better spent with a math tutor.
 

wait-n-see

Veteran Member
A Christmas gift from Elon and Ramaswamy to the American worker. :shk:

I had to provide screenshots as the page is preventing cop-n-paste.

Per these 2, I guess America-first does not mean American citizens first, but American company profits first!!

Maybe we all need to get ready for a massive influx of foreign engineers brought in to take the jobs away from American born Engineers?

@@@

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/musk-ramaswamy-discuss-us-talent-shortage-as-sriram-krishnans-immigration-views-spark-row-america-first-means-/articleshow/116676724.cms

TOI World Desk
TIMESOFINDIA
Dec 26, 2024



elon1.png

elon2.png

elon3.png
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Vivek couldn’t be more wrong. He is completely discounting that it was American exceptionalism that led to the greatest achievements of the last 150 years…that put men on the moon…

There is one reason why tech companies import tech talent - money.

I didn’t have a problem with Vivek until now. I thought he was a dynamic thinker and a great asset to the Trump team. His agenda is now clear. I will view everything he does going forward with skepticism.

He’s also a hypocrite. He was posting videos of his son doing push-ups with Pete Hegseth at the Army/Navy game just a few weeks ago. Surely his son’s time would’ve been better spent with a math tutor.
Sorry, I agree with Vivek. (And the silly straw argument about his kid "wasting" time with Pete Hegseth doing push-ups is just that...silly.)

"American exceptionalism" was based on our culture... going into the 1960s. Certainly, kids watched cartoons and played games...but parents kept things I'm balance. This was far easier then, as cartoons were only on Saturday mornings, and for an hour or so after school.

Kids also had routine chores and responsibilities.

Our kids played sports, won Homecoming King, had paying jobs (aside from working for us on the farm) by the age of 14, and they were hired ahead of non-Americans as well as American engineers. Two sons were told that they were hired over many other equally qualified people *because of their farm background*.

The average American kid is raised to value feelings over facts, and to take time off for minor injuries or illnesses...or even for "mental health" days (which translates into "I'm feeling lazy and self indulgent, and need an excuse to stay home")
It's absolutely crazy how many simply WON'T follow attendance rules, show up on time, or work during the hours they are fretting paid for.

I agree with Vivek.

Summerthyme
 

privatemom

Veteran Member
We dare not forget the the 80s and 90s was the beginning of all the outsourcing of jobs and importing of the h1b visa people. We had to train people who became our replacements in our jobs. I cannot begin to explain just how much of a hot button this is for me! My husband and I both had to work with these imports. To say they were not good experiences is a gross understatement!!!!
 

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
@VivekGRamaswamy

The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans isn’t because of an innate American IQ deficit (a lazy & wrong explanation). A key part of it comes down to the c-word: culture. Tough questions demand tough answers & if we’re really serious about fixing the problem, we have to confront the TRUTH:

Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long (at least since the 90s and likely longer). That doesn’t start in college, it starts YOUNG.

A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympiad champ, or the jock over the valedictorian, will not produce the best engineers.

A culture that venerates Cory from “Boy Meets World,” or Zach & Slater over Screech in “Saved by the Bell,” or ‘Stefan’ over Steve Urkel in “Family Matters,” will not produce the best engineers.

(Fact: I know *multiple* sets of immigrant parents in the 90s who actively limited how much their kids could watch those TV shows precisely because they promoted mediocrity…and their kids went on to become wildly successful STEM graduates).

More movies like Whiplash, fewer reruns of “Friends.” More math tutoring, fewer sleepovers. More weekend science competitions, fewer Saturday morning cartoons. More books, less TV. More creating, less “chillin.” More extracurriculars, less “hanging out at the mall.”

Most normal American parents look skeptically at “those kinds of parents.” More normal American kids view such “those kinds of kids” with scorn. If you grow up aspiring to normalcy, normalcy is what you will achieve.

Now close your eyes & visualize which families you knew in the 90s (or even now) who raise their kids according to one model versus the other. Be brutally honest.

“Normalcy” doesn’t cut it in a hyper-competitive global market for technical talent. And if we pretend like it does, we’ll have our asses handed to us by China.

This can be our Sputnik moment. We’ve awaken from slumber before & we can do it again. Trump’s election hopefully marks the beginning of a new golden era in America, but only if our culture fully wakes up. A culture that once again prioritizes achievement over normalcy; excellence over mediocrity; nerdiness over conformity; hard work over laziness.

That’s the work we have cut out for us, rather than wallowing in victimhood & just wishing (or legislating) alternative hiring practices into existence. I’m confident we can do it.

View: https://twitter.com/vivekgramaswamy/status/1872312139945234507
 

Dash

Veteran Member
Sorry, I agree with Vivek. (And the silly straw argument about his kid "wasting" time with Pete Hegseth doing push-ups is just that...silly.)

"American exceptionalism" was based on our culture... going into the 1960s. Certainly, kids watched cartoons and played games...but parents kept things I'm balance. This was far easier then, as cartoons were only on Saturday mornings, and for an hour or so after school.

Kids also had routine chores and responsibilities.

Our kids played sports, won Homecoming King, had paying jobs (aside from working for us on the farm) by the age of 14, and they were hired ahead of non-Americans as well as American engineers. Two sons were told that they were hired over many other equally qualified people *because of their farm background*.

The average American kid is raised to value feelings over facts, and to take time off for minor injuries or illnesses...or even for "mental health" days (which translates into "I'm feeling lazy and self indulgent, and need an excuse to stay home")
It's absolutely crazy how many simply WON'T follow attendance rules, show up on time, or work during the hours they are fretting paid for.

I agree with Vivek.

Summerthyme
I actually agree with most of what you said. And you’re right, I did use a silly straw man argument, I will own that. But the key is balance. Vivek is not advocating for balance. There are lots of well balanced American kids like yours and mine. It is absurd for Vivek to argue that they no longer exist. These high achievers don’t go into tech because of the pay disparity. Tech pays less than finance (for example) because the tech industry can import cheap labor.

The kids that are raised to value feelings over facts, etc… aren’t going for tech jobs or the high paying finance jobs. I agree with everything you said here.

The reason why I don’t trust Vivek on this is because at the end of the day he is advocating for importing more Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis rather than making tech a more attractive industry for Americans.
 

Lone_Hawk

Resident Spook
I actually agree with most of what you said. And you’re right, I did use a silly straw man argument, I will own that. But the key is balance. Vivek is not advocating for balance. There are lots of well balanced American kids like yours and mine. It is absurd for Vivek to argue that they no longer exist. These high achievers don’t go into tech because of the pay disparity. Tech pays less than finance (for example) because the tech industry can import cheap labor.

The kids that are raised to value feelings over facts, etc… aren’t going for tech jobs or the high paying finance jobs. I agree with everything you said here.

The reason why I don’t trust Vivek on this is because at the end of the day he is advocating for importing more Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis rather than making tech a more attractive industry for Americans.
The thing is that over the last 40+ years the move has been to mediocrity in this country. Be it in our schools, colleges, military, culture. You may not like the answer he is giving, I know I don't, but is he wrong? Reality abhors a vacuum. If we don't want H1Bs filling the slots, we have to solve our culture problems, and that will take time. It took time to get where we are today.
 

Sacajawea

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I saw it happening in the 80s with my kids. Youngest was very quick to learn and participated in advanced level courses. She was ignored & put down because of it. Still complains that she didn't have any friends because she was faster in track, got As in math & science, etc.

Dumb was "cool". So the other kids didn't TRY to learn and then teaching lowered their standards and even did away with grading. I've seen it in the workplace, as well.

If the expectation standards are raised again, people will work up to those expectations IF they've learned anything in life.

The Indians aren't BETTER at tech - they just worked at learning it all. And they are awful (IMO) at customer service.
 

Dash

Veteran Member
The thing is that over the last 40+ years the move has been to mediocrity in this country. Be it in our schools, colleges, military, culture. You may not like the answer he is giving, I know I don't, but is he wrong? Reality abhors a vacuum. If we don't want H1Bs filling the slots, we have to solve our culture problems, and that will take time. It took time to get where we are today.
I don’t disagree. But we have also created a culture where white males won’t be considered for many jobs or colleges. Where it is cheaper to hire H1Bs. That is a huge part of the culture problem. Yes we have a problem where mediocrity has become acceptable. But there are also millions of over achievers that aren’t valued because of their skin color. That is a huge part of the culture problem that needs to be rectified.

I think Vivek is wrong because there has to be balance in everything. My son scores perfectly on state math tests, he also spends 3 to 4 nights a week in the karate dojo, either taking classes or assisting. He also watches cartoons and plays video games. He is a happy and well adjusted kid. He’s 10 and full of potential, it is up to us to harness it. The children I encounter that have tiger moms are the most anxiety riddled, depressed kids I meet. I feel bad for them.
 

Dystonic

Veteran Member
I've been following this for a few days on X. Laura Loomer was the one who brought this all up and has been running with it. She's been bringing the receipts and all the tech bros have been on defense.
 

BassMan

Veteran Member
I do think we have a lot of low-achievers.

On the other hand, policies like "996" in China - work 9-9, 6 days a week - sort-of takes the joy out of life. Also, schooling to the exclusion of all-else is likewise a "drag".

While I have no answers, I suspect a couple of factors will soon arise:
  1. Competing with (and losing to) AI.
  2. A few more years out, physically integrating computer technology with the brain (surgery or nano-tech).
I don't think our bodies are well suited to being "human computers". I think our design (or evolution...) assumes exercise, time for quiet reflection/nature, and social bonding.
 
Last edited:

SageRock

No digital ID, No CBDC!! Reject psyops!!
Fair use cited.


The H-1b Lie: This Program Must END

2024-12-26 07:00 by Karl Denninger

Let's cut the crap on H-1b abuse: The H-1b program is in essentially every single case simple abuse, wild-eyed racism through the effective of the "caste" system into the US and destruction of the wage base .vs. the claimed purpose of the program.

In truth the H-1b garbage and the tech firms, including Elon's, shilling for it is nothing more than the same bullshit run by the construction industry when it comes to illegal aliens putting on roofs or farmers and picking strawberries. Neither industry wants to pay Americans a living wage and so both look for ways to cut their costs and stuff the rest of the money in their pockets. Breaking the law doesn't matter to them and yes, essentially every H-1b as currently used is breaking the law because the law requires first a diligent search for American talent at the wage said talent will accept and then, and only then you must pay more to legally use H-1bs. This is never the case, and the job-shop crap is even worse which I will go into detail on below. The so-called "tech bros" all know this, all exploit this and every single one of them should be imprisoned for suborning it, abusing Americans and foreigners alike.

One of the more-common abuses is to list a "job opening" that has a litany of "requirements" that no reasonably-skilled person in-field actually meets but magically some H-1b person "does." Or so they claim; said person really doesn't have five years of experience in the entire list proffered, but this is the basis of their claim "there's no American who can do this job." As someone who has more than forty years in the computer field as a programmer, networking and systems guy I can spot those "ads" instantly; every one of them is a fraud and used solely to avoid hiring an American. Let me be clear: The posting of a single one of those ads is proof of fraud and thus a felony for which the posting entity should be instantly arrested, indicted and everyone involved in it imprisoned.

If you really are an "exceptional" individual in-field you have no need for H-1b at all irrespective of your nationality; the claim that this program actually provides "exceptional" talent is a bald-faced lie that we must not tolerate in any venue. If you are truly exceptional in your field you can apply for and get an O-1 visa which allows you to work for three years in the United States, it can be extended for additional one year terms indefinitely, it has no tie to a specific employer so you can follow job opportunity or set up your own firm unlike the H-1b that does not and thus forces the holder to stay with the sponsoring company or depart the US, it can form the foundation (assuming you aren't misrepresenting anything and really are exceptional and prove it once you get here) for permanent residency and of course that, over time, can lead to citizenship.

So why don't they do that? Because nearly all of them are not really more-skilled than an average person and further if they were they'd turn their own nation into a technology powerhouse since they have four times our population or more and plenty of natural resources.

H-1b visas as illegally exploited today by industry are essentially indentured servitude. The worker is captive to the employer who sponsors the visa and what's worse is that an entire consulting industry has risen up around these things that siphons off a huge percentage of the pay; many of these people make only the minimum of about $55,000 a year with the rest going to the consulting company which is a direct violation of the intent of the program that is supposed to only allow their use at above-market wages. Of course this means the "employee" winds up working 80 hours a week for 40 hours of $27.50/hr in pay.

No, $55,000 for a "skilled" tech worker who is then expected to work double time for no extra money is not an above-market wage anywhere in the United States. It is in fact way below any such skilled position's wage and in addition that "wage" being that its a contractor position does not include either taxes or benefits.

I know multiple young men and women who, knowing my history in the tech sector from worker bee to CEO asked for my opinion on going to college and entering tech careers a decade or more ago and I warned them of the rise of this program and its abuse -- and that given the cost of a degree unless they had a full ride scholarship it was quite dangerous because they could end up with quite a lot of debt and then be undercut by an Indian on an H-1b who makes a hell of a lot less and they'd have no way to possibly survive and pay down their debt on that wage.

I'm aware of more than one of said young men and women, a few of who are definitely in the top 2% on an intellectual basis (that is, Mensa material and potential future superstars) who completed highly technical degrees with high honors and then left the tech industry entirely and don't work in it today. I do not know if they got directly ****ed by the H-1b program as the reason but I bet at least in part it was due to lack of satisfaction with offered working conditions which is driven in large part by this insanity.

Those individuals have deliberately given the finger to the American tech industries despite having the intellectual and educational chops to be top engineers and possibly discover and implement breakthroughs that would change our lives. It is only reasonable to believe they made this decision to stick up their middle fingers due to external market conditions beyond their control and H-1b abuse is a big part of it. And by the way they are also not having kids either; by their actions they have zero intention of putting another generation in that position and this is despite having found an apparently-permanent heterosexual relationship.

Further, many of these so-called "technical people" on H-1bs, particularly from India, have bogus certificates and degrees that demonstrate nothing; they are really no better than an American with no experience who went through a couple of week bootcamp in Android programming or similar. There is utterly no reason that any of those people should be here instead of Americans doing those jobs; if the job is within their capabilities the average High School graduate can, with nothing more than a High School level of education, learn enough to work at that level inside of a few weeks time in learning.

But will they do that for $27.50/hour when they're treated like human trash and members of an "inferior caste" on the job? Not when they can make $20/hr doing what amounts to a near-mindless job at Buc-Ees and punch a clock with no project pressures and related BS -- they can do that instead with a reasonable path to being an assistant manager at over $30/hr and if they stick with it management jobs in that company, which you really can attain, come with a $100,000+ income over the space of a few years!

What's worse is the staunchest defenders of this crap are Indians who came here either on O-1s or otherwise managed to get out of the H-1b trap themselves and stay -- and now are either in those firms as management or running the job shops ****ing all the other H-1b workers for 30+% of the billed hourly rate. They have now brought the Indian caste system with them and have to a large degree codified it into the United States workforce and thus love the job-shop abuse crap that goes on in the tech industry and it shows inexorably in the composition of the workforce that winds up under and around them over just a few years time.

You don't have to look beyond simply walking in the door or touring the neighborhoods where these workers live to see the racial discrimination against everyone other than them and just like every slavery system crafted through history its all about the money.

All of this must end; it is wildly illegal and found everywhere in the tech industry. Those who truly are exceptional, irrespective of nation, can already come here via the existing O-1 visa program which is purely merit-based and has exactly zero "pull" capacity by job shops and others who would seek to exploit those in other lands. The existing H-1b program does that in spades and effectively has become an import of the Indian caste system into the tech industries.

That is not embodiment of American values, it is illegal under federal anti-discrimination laws, it has been increasingly exploited to drive down wages and push Americans out of tech jobs and it must be entirely ended with prejudice right here and now as it is in fact no different than exploiting illegal Mexicans to put on roofs and pluck chickens.

If Trump does not do so then his claim of intent to "Make America Great Again" is just another political LIE and YOU are going to get it further up your ass as an American for the benefit of those who are not.
 

Firebird

Has No Life - Lives on TB
We raised our kids more like Vivek described. Limited TV, limited time with lazy friends, we homeschooled K-12, they started work very young, learned work ethic etc. We did not dump them at friends houses, but they grew up with horses, 4 wheelers and proper firearm instruction. They were voracious readers, and learned a ton on their own. To this day, both continue to learn.

Neither child went to college, both are extremely intelligent, both have outstanding careers, both own their own homes, and neither is a sponge on parents or govt. All of my son's lazy, coddled friends ended up in jail for being dumb ass morons.
 

NHGUNNER

Senior Member
I work for a Chinese company (unfortunately). At least at our facility, the push is to be more like our chinese co-workers. They sent a bunch of upper management over to see how they do things.

17 hour days, six days a week is the norm for management.

If that is what it takes to be successful nowadays, you can have it.
 

helen

Panic Sex Lady
Vivek Ramaswamy Is a Fraud—and Always Has Been | Opinion - Newsweek

Vivek Ramaswamy Is a Fraud—and Always Has Been


Vivek Ramaswamy's artful narrative, meticulously tailored for the GOP primary voter, weaves a tale of principled sacrifice and success. According to his version, he helmed the leadership of Roivant, a multi-billion-dollar American pharmaceutical company he founded, and gallantly relinquished his CEO role in 2021 due to his unwavering stance against ESG principles, despite facing opposition from his liberal workforce. While this narrative might seem appealing, it is akin to the endless "flip-flops" that have plagued his campaign—an elaborate work of fiction that unravels upon a modicum of scrutiny.



Let's start with the basics. Ramaswamy has funded his campaign through the sale of over $32 million in Roivant stock options in February of this year. This could lead one to believe that Roivant, based in Bermuda, is thriving and that Ramaswamy is a great entrepreneur. Except the company reported staggering losses of $1.2 billion in its financial report of March 2023. This isn't a one-time slump: In March 2022, when Ramaswamy was still Roivant's chairman and a major shareholder, the company reported an annual loss of $924.1 million.



Ramaswamy's defenders may argue that Roivant performed better during his tenure as CEO in 2021, but alas, the numbers tell a different story. The reality is that Roivant's finances were abysmal under Ramaswamy's watch. During his tenure in 2019, the company's net operating loss exceeded $530 million. By 2020, the losses had doubled to over $1 billion, accompanied by a 65 percent decline in revenue.



These numbers raise a puzzling question: How can a company consistently bleeding billions trade at over $10 a share?



The answer might lie in Ramaswamy's implementation of Roivant's diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiative, called Roivant Social Ventures, during his CEO tenure. Launched in 2020 while Ramaswamy was still CEO, this initiative aimed to foster "DEI opportunities for future leaders in biopharma and biotech."



While Ramaswamy vocally opposes ESG principles, Roivant's major institutional investors—including Morgan Stanley, Viking Global, and BlackRock, the very firms he criticizes by name—are among its largest stakeholders, owning over 500 million shares.
Ramaswamy himself holds more than 80 million shares, making him an essential partner of these major ESG funds.

In a deeply ironic twist, Ramaswamy's anti-"woke" campaign is being bankrolled by the profits reaped from the very policies he denounces.

Yet this irony is not the worst of it. In 2015, there was another sordid affair involving Ramaswamy, over Axovant Sciences Alzheimer's drug. In June 2015, Ramaswamy appeared on CNBC to praise the Axovant IPO, which soared to over $30 a share based on expectations surrounding its Alzheimer's drug, Intepirdine. The drug was touted as a "breakthrough," yet upon closer examination, this development fell apart.


Axovant had acquired the drug for $5 million in December 2014, six months before the IPO, after the majority of Phase 2 trials had "failed to meet their primary endpoints" in 2010. Ramaswamy devised a solution: His mother, Dr. Geetha Ramaswamy, conducted a new Phase 2 trial in 2015 involving "684 subjects." This trial conveniently claimed to demonstrate sufficient improvement to "support Phase 3" trials.
The aftermath was a triumphant $350 million IPO in 2015, followed by a drastic fall. By September 2017, the stock had plummeted 75 percent after Ramaswamy and his mother announced the Phase 3 trial's failure. Subsequent trials continued to disappoint, culminating in a 99 percent loss in value and a name change for the company.

While investors suffered significant losses, Ramaswamy profited from a higher media profile, IPO payouts, and the sale of remaining Axovant assets in 2020.

Ramaswamy's latest scam appears to be his run for president. The 38-year-old presidential candidate appears to have no serious interest in leading the nation. In fact, according to people who know Ramaswamy, the goal of his campaign seems to be to block Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis' path to the nomination by running as a MAGA-adjacent candidate. Ramaswamy's deception has gone as far as hiring a writer to delete from his Wikipedia page his past ties to the Soros family and the creator of the mRNA vaccine.

Serving as Donald Trump's political fullback and hiding unflattering information from voters may not be a crime, but it is part of a disturbing pattern with Ramaswamy, which goes something like this: Generate media buzz, pull out right before the crash, and leave a rubble behind for others to clean up. In this case, the ones who will have to clean up his mess are Republican primary voters.

Thankfully, there are signs that conservatives may be catching on to Ramaswamy's ruse. A poll of Iowa Republican caucus goers taken immediately after last week's Fox News debate showed him dropping from third to fourth place, with his unfavorability ratings more than doubling. Clearly, Iowans didn't like what they saw. Who can blame them?

Both parties are already led by scandal-plagued octogenarians. The last thing we need is a millennial conman pretending to be a presidential candidate.

Sam Nunberg is a lawyer and political consultant based in West Palm Beach, Fla. He previously served as an advisor to former President Donald Trump.
 
Last edited:

Milkweed Host

Veteran Member
We all know that foreign talent is becoming more important as the American
talent gap (vacuum) is widening. We did that to ourselves.

My three kids were raised on a farm. They had their own beef calves that were bottle
fed. They helped some, with cleaning pens, but most of the work was with a bucket on a tractor.
they had chores, but nothing like when I grew up on a farm. so they had it easy.

All three were honor roll students, A,B and principal's, with some advanced/honor classes.
They played instruments, class plays, sports.
Two boys placed first on a team of four, in the Minnesota Future problem solving program.
Two boys took four years of martial arts with some testing done in North Chicago.

All have at least BA or BS degrees.

Oldest son is a 'Site Lead' at a NZ Air Force base.

2nd son is a medical planner in the Navy res, 04 and also a Health Systems Specialist & Site Administrator (Gs-13)
at a hospital. (I have no idea what he does at work)

Both boys are veterans.

Daughter is more laid back, was an assistant manager at a library is now a officer manager at a local church.
Mostly takes care of two kids.
 
Last edited:

bassgirl

Veteran Member
First of all. Make sure it was the full transcript and you have the correct context. Do not believe anything you see or hear unless you see the whole thing yourself to make a decision. If there is one thing we have learned, they are bias, they hate DODG and will do anything to try to turn the tide against these guys.

The key word they use a lot is Meritocracy. If you have merit you get the job. It does not matter what your skin color is anymore. With the exception of Vets who have served in wars this needs to be the case.

If you can pass the test and show proficiency better than anyone else you should get the job. Period.

East Indians are VERY driven and smart. Almost as smart and driven as Asians. In the medical field Indian MD's were way better than many American MDs. It is just a fact. Tho I worked under many American Black MDs there were a mixed bag. The rare one was really good. The rest where assholes who carried the Black chip on their shoulder and they were right no matter what.

A good Black MD was the exception, A bad Indian MD was the exception. That was my experience in 30 years of Hospital work.

I can only assume it is the same way in other fields. Most white MDs have opted for Surgery professions or family medical practice. A lot of the Indian MDs opt for Internal medicine. I.E. They are now Hospitalist. There is the odd ball white Cardiologist and many white Open Heart Surgeons.

So why import MDs at all? Because we do not have nearly enough.I have worked under Egyptians, Africans ( from Africa and not impressed)

Bottom line is if one comes here legally, and the position cannot be filled with an American who is of merit, then they have little choice to go other places.

While there are good Americans who are smart and driven usually they go into business or finance and maybe Science. Our colleges are turning out lazy, idealistic, pussies. There are exceptions always, some of you have smart hard working kids, but you also see that your kids are miles ahead of most of their friends.

Bottom line I want this country back on track. If it takes bringing in some LEGAL immigrants or work visas to get HARD TO FILL jobs until we can catch Americans up, then I see nothing wrong with it. As long as they do not go crazy. Which the HB -Visas have been around since the 90's. Hasn't crashed this country yet.

Again, be careful with what is going to be thrown at us for the next 4 years. They will be relentless. Trump nor his cabinet is always going to make popular decisions. And while I am riding the Red wave train with everyone else, and super happy about it. I am also cautious with the power tripping that is kind of materializing on the red side. We need to be careful and not turn into screaming mimi's like the left did and does.
 
Last edited:

Blue 5

Veteran Member
We need to stop importing foreign labor, and start being realistic about education. Not every kid is cut out for college, and lots of kids who could be brilliant engineers, scientists, and doctors are winding up in middle management, and other non-productive careers. We must do a better job of guiding American kids onto good, and appropriate, career paths.
 

Thunderdragon

Veteran Member
I have a close relative. Computer science degree from top 50 engineering school. Barely top 50 tho - to be clear. It was. Hard. Graduated. Could not find a job in his field. Took a job doing something completely unrelated that does not require a degree. Something is wrong somewhere. 2024 grad. His only comment is. He should have majored in business. Would have gotten a job and it would have been a lot easier. He will probably end up Getting a business grad type job. I will add. Stellar resume. He paid for college thru the National guard. Was not in rotc. it may have been viewed as a negative he has 3.5 more years of Ng commitment by employers although I have no proof.
 
Last edited:

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
I don’t disagree. But we have also created a culture where white males won’t be considered for many jobs or colleges. Where it is cheaper to hire H1Bs. That is a huge part of the culture problem. Yes we have a problem where mediocrity has become acceptable. But there are also millions of over achievers that aren’t valued because of their skin color. That is a huge part of the culture problem that needs to be rectified.

I think Vivek is wrong because there has to be balance in everything. My son scores perfectly on state math tests, he also spends 3 to 4 nights a week in the karate dojo, either taking classes or assisting. He also watches cartoons and plays video games. He is a happy and well adjusted kid. He’s 10 and full of potential, it is up to us to harness it. The children I encounter that have tiger moms are the most anxiety riddled, depressed kids I meet. I feel bad for them.

That's exactly it, there needs to be an appropriate balance, and that's not a one size fits all scenario.

Ramaswamy's intensity is based on the degree of seriousness the situation has been allowed to devolve to.

Heck from a simple side of health and test scores, as well as other "issues", only a fraction of the 18-25 year olds can even qualify to enlist, never mind be drafted (regardless of your position on conscription).
 

helen

Panic Sex Lady
Foreign medical professionals are not comparable to foreign IT workers in quality. Medical professionals maim and kill patients and get their employers sued. IT workers do not. They are not equivalent in training, education, or skills.
 
Top