CHAT The Myers-Briggs personality test and it's origins

ArisenCarcass

Veteran Member
Freud and Jung did well enough in their day, but most of their "Psychology" is pseudo-scientific nonsense.

Neuroscience is where it's at today.
With the greater understanding of the brain mechanisms and components we now have, we can determine the neurological problems associated with various symptomologies and treat them more effectively by targeting the root causes or utilizing evidence-based treatments to promote neuroplasticity.
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
So I'm thinking... Karens?

No "Karen's" allowed in my sphere!

ISTJs are most at home with "just the facts." ISTJs are easily frustrated by the inconsistencies of others, especially when the second parties don't keep their commitments. But they usually keep their feelings to themselves unless they are asked. And when asked, they don't mince words. Truth wins out over tact.

And, I am about as tactless as they come!
 

jward

passin' thru
Freud and Jung did well enough in their day, but most of their "Psychology" is pseudo-scientific nonsense.

Neuroscience is where it's at today.
With the greater understanding of the brain mechanisms and components we now have, we can determine the neurological problems associated with various symptomologies and treat them more effectively by targeting the root causes or utilizing evidence-based treatments to promote neuroplasticity.
That's what my FIL claims as well- though as an eminent psychiatrist in his field he stopped short of calling it "nonsense" :jstr:

I too am far more excited about using mind body connections and visualizations etc to rewire the brain, and thus the thoughts, feelings and body- if that is what neuroplasticity does.
 
Funny, I consider the brain simply the hardware housing the software (our souls). Of course, I have many theories that are uhm strange.
 

Cardinal

Chickministrator
_______________
Freud and Jung did well enough in their day, but most of their "Psychology" is pseudo-scientific nonsense.

Neuroscience is where it's at today.
With the greater understanding of the brain mechanisms and components we now have, we can determine the neurological problems associated with various symptomologies and treat them more effectively by targeting the root causes or utilizing evidence-based treatments to promote neuroplasticity.
Can neuroscience predict what career field will make ya happy, or who would make a good marriage partner?
 

KFhunter

Veteran Member
Depends on my mood when I take the test, I think its all BS anyways. Some agencies used to use this crap in hiring and promoting employees, but now its too known, and you can test for anything you want it to say.
 

KFhunter

Veteran Member
Have a couple shots of whiskey on a friday night after work, put on party music, then take the test..

Or take it the next morning with a good hang over and your out of coffee...
 

KFhunter

Veteran Member
for you astrology types

Gemini - and I typically I land on ENTJ.
It's like INTJ, but I'm not scared to be around people...
 

willowlady

Veteran Member
So I'm thinking... Karens?


It means you're an ass. :p
Disagree. Not usually Karens. This would violate the sense of order and right and wrong in trying to impose my viewpoint on someone who is probably too stupid to listen to reason. Not to mention a waste of time and energy in a hopeless task.

As far as astrology goes, there are certainly some interesting aspects to it. However, I figured out long ago that a dedicated nutcase could start a new religion (or conspiracy theory) based on, oh, say the number of steps NY City Hall.
 

jward

passin' thru
This is an excerpt from GAPerry's article The birth of Psychological Astrology that speaks to Jungs' system of analytical psychology and the use he made of astrology in it's formation...

Perry's liscened astrologer and psychotherapist on both coast, for what this worth, and has a # of interesting historical pieces if one is interested in the fields' of humanistic astrology or astropsychology:



Jung’s Contribution to Astrology
birth of psychological astrology
Carl JungSuch assumptions appear naive from the perspective of modern, depth psychology. We now recognize that while changing one’s inborn character can be extraordinarily difficult, it can be achieved through courage, persistence, and hard work. It was the Swiss psychoanalyst, Carl Jung, who first recognized the vast potential of astrology as a tool for exploring the depths of the human psyche.

In various writings throughout his life, Jung made reference to his profound respect for astrology. He asserted that astrology had a great deal to contribute to psychology and admitted to having employed it with some frequency in his analytic work with clients. In cases of difficult psychological diagnosis, Jung would draw up a horoscope in order to have a further point of view from an entirely different angle. “I must say,” said Jung, “that I very often found that the astrological data elucidated certain points which I otherwise would have been unable to understand” (1948).

Jung (1976) regarded the signs and planets of astrology as symbols of archetypal processes that originated in the collective unconscious. The archetypes of the collective unconscious were the universal organizing principles underlying and motivating all psychological life, both individual and collective. Whereas mythology placed its emphasis upon the cultural manifestations of archetypes at various times and places in history, astrology utilized archetypes as a language for understanding the basic psychological drives of human beings.

As Jung put it, “Astrology, like the collective unconscious with which psychology is concerned, consists of symbolic configurations: the planets are the gods, symbols of the power of the unconscious.” The gods of mythology represented the living forces of the universe that patterned all things. Like Plato’s Forms, an archetype was both subjective and objective; it was evident both in the innate ideas of human consciousness as well as in the fundamental processes of nature; it informed not only human experience but also planetary motions.

It was precisely this dual nature of the archetype that enabled the chart to bridge inner character with the outer events that reflected that character. “There are many instances of striking analogies between astrological constellations and psychological events or between the horoscope and the characterological disposition,” wrote Jung (1976). Archetypes, he concluded, were psychoid; they shape matter as well as mind. An astrological configuration defined both the innate disposition of the individual and the particular kinds of outer conditions which the individual was likely to experience. In a 1954 interview, Jung stated “One can expect with considerable assurance, that a given well-defined psychological situation will be accompanied by an analogous astrological configuration.”

Jung recognized that the unique and unparalleled ability of astrology to disclose correlations between planetary motions and human experience also made it an accurate way of timing life crises: “I have observed many cases where a well-defined psychological phase or an analogous event has been accompanied by a transit—particularly the afflictions of Saturn and Uranus” (1954).

Jung’s observance of correlations between psychological phenomena and astrological data contributed to the formulation of his theory of synchronicity. He defined synchronicity as “the simultaneous occurrence of a certain psychic state with one or more external events which appear as meaningful parallels to the momentary subjective state” (1955, p. 36). Accordingly, Jung did not hesitate to take the synchronistic phenomena that underlay astrology seriously. Astrology, he thought, worked precisely because of synchronicity. That is, the psychic structure of the person about to be born was “meaningfully paralleled” in the positions of the planets at that time.

When looking for a way to test the hypothesis of synchronicity, Jung set up an astrological experiment that correlated planetary configurations, or cross aspects, between the charts of marital partners. He hypothesized that certain cross aspects would appear with greater frequency between the charts of marital partners than between charts of people who had no relationship. “The meaningful coincidence we are looking for is immediately apparent in astrology,” said Jung, “since the astrological data…correspond to individual traits of character; and from the remotest times the various planets, houses, zodiacal signs, and aspects have all had meanings that serve as a basis for a character study” (1955, p. 43-4).

Although Jung never developed any systematic theory of astrology, it appears that his own theory of analytical psychology was heavily influenced by it. There are so many parallels that one is almost forced to conclude that at least some of his major concepts were borrowed directly from astrology. In addition to his explicit endorsement of planets as archetypes, and his theory of synchronicity as a means for explaining astrological coincidences, Jung’s notion of two attitude types—extrovert and introvert—is readily recognizable by astrologers as the bi-polar division of the zodiac into two polarities: positive/masculine (extrovert) and negative/feminine (introvert) signs. Likewise, his four function types—intuition, sensation, thinking, and feeling—are roughly paralleled in astrology by the four elements of fire, earth, air, and water.

In addition to these more obvious analogues, there are additional correlations that have been explored by astrologers. These include ego/Sun, persona/Ascendant, shadow/Pluto, anima/Venus, animus/Mars, and collective unconscious/Neptune. Difficult astrological configurations, especially those involving hard aspects from the outer planets to Mercury, Venus, Mars, Moon, or Sun, have been observed by astrologers to represent trouble spots in the personality similar to what Jung described as psychic complexes; that is, unconscious, emotionally charged memories, images, and thoughts clustered around a central core.
 

jward

passin' thru
There's some good info out there on extrovert/introvert. It isn't about fear or love of people, so much as the answering of the question "what energizes a person"? Some of us get our mojo from others, and feed off of the interactions, others of us find our energy drained. There is not a bit of superiority to either, it is merely a case of wiring. Regardless of which system or systems one looks to to answer the question of what is responsible for our wiring.

Some of us :: me me :: are BOTH, unfortunately, and likely to be introverted the night she's supposed to host a dinner party for the bosses boss, and extroverted in the wee hours before the sweeties important meeting that he really really really needs to prepare for :: shrugg ::

That reminded me of the biggest concern I had with all the Mb type systems: the danger that we may write off legitimately pathological behaviors as normal. i.e. saying oh sally is just shy, when in truth sally is agoraphobic and would enlarge her life and happiness if it were treated. . .
 

JMG91

Veteran Member
I go back and forth between ISFJ (Defender), INFJ (Advocate), and INTJ (Architect). I think it depends on what's going on in my life; also, I have a personality that seems to reach across the spectrum--more balanced that way. I feel deeply and empathize, but am also very logical and don't like to screw around--just give me the facts.

One thing remains the same though: I am 99% introverted. :lol:
 
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