GUNS/RLTD Texas pushes closer to dropping handgun license rule - UPDATE, post 25

20Gauge

TB Fanatic

In Texas, where gun laws are among the loosest in the U.S., there is one line the state has long resisted crossing: making it legal to carry a handgun in public without a permit, background check or training.

Governors didn’t champion it. Police persuaded Republican leaders to avoid it. And two years ago, when a frustrated gun rights activist showed up outside the home of the Texas House speaker, the resulting outcry quickly snuffed it out again.

But in a span of just weeks, Texas has suddenly pushed ever closer to becoming the largest state in the country with unregulated or "permitless" carry — a move that is alarming law enforcement and has some Republicans staring down a vote they’d rather avoid. It has also disheartened lawmakers from El Paso, which is still recovering from one of the worst mass shootings in the nation’s history, when a gunman at Walmart killed 23 people in 2019.

"What is going on out there that we need to overhaul a system that works?" asked Kevin Lawrence, executive director of the Texas Municipal Police Association, which opposes the bill. "We are fine with law-abiding citizens having guns. But there are still some people who should not be allowed to carry guns in public."

On Thursday, a special committee hastily created by the state Senate was set to advance the measure — an unusual move because it comes just weeks after Republicans said they didn’t have the votes. And a week after ducking a question on the bill, Republican Gov. Greg Abbott said this week that he would sign it.

The measure would eliminate the license requirement and the state background check and training that go with it. It wouldn’t prevent businesses from banning guns on their property, and federal background checks for some gun purchases would remain in place. Supporters of the bill say it would allow Texans to better defend themselves in public while abolishing unnecessary hurdles to the Constitutional right to carry a gun.

Emblematic of the pressure the governor has been under from some Republicans, state party Chairman Allen West, a firebrand former congressman from Florida who took over the Texas GOP’s leadership in 2020, chided Abbott and Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick as "squishies" for their initial hesitance on the gun issue.

"You’d think they’d be proud to whip the Legislature and get it done," West said.

Texas has more than 1.6 million handgun license holders under a law first passed in 1995. The state doesn’t require a license to carry long guns in public, and eliminating the license for handguns has long been a goal of hardcore gun activists. After years of being mostly ignored, they seized on a change of leadership in the Texas House to press forward.

The House’s new speaker, Republican Dade Phelan, sponsored a permitless carry bill several years ago. With him in charge now, the issue sailed through the Republican-dominated chamber this month.

"We cannot allow another session to come and go where we pay lip service to the Second Amendment while failing to fully restore the God-given rights to our citizens," state Sen. Charles Schwertner said Thursday. "We simply can’t allow this opportunity to pass us by. This issue is far too important."

Gyl Switzer, executive director of the gun control group Texas Gun Sense, which opposes the bill, said she grew worried when the issue got a full vote in the House. Republican lawmakers who avoided the vote in the past likely didn’t want to look soft on gun issues ahead of the 2022 elections, she said.

"It’s literally a life or death bill," Switzer said. "I would like to believe that people could step away from some oath to the right wing of their party."

Texas would join about 20 states that allow some form of unlicensed handgun carry, but it would be by far the biggest in terms of population. Tennessee earlier this year dropped its handgun license requirement and several others are considering it.

"It’s in the air," Switzer said. "There is even national pressure. I’m sure Texas (Republicans) don’t want to look weak."

The change would still only allow people age 21 or over to carry handguns. And people with violent crime convictions or some other legal prohibition would still be barred from carrying them. But there would be no way to weed them out without the early background check.

Law enforcement groups warn eliminating the license requirement will make the streets more dangerous. Figuring out who can legally carry and who can’t shouldn’t be left to a patrol officer, Lawrence said.

"I fear for our law enforcement," said Sen. Eddie Lucio, a Democrat. "I would hate to see more guns out there that cause more injury or death."

A handful of Democrats support the bill, but others are frustrated that the state isn’t strengthening its gun restrictions in light of its mass shootings in recent years, most notably at the El Paso Walmart, a Houston-area high school and a church in Sutherland Springs.

When the bill passed the House, state Rep. Joe Moody, who district includes El Paso, said lawmakers had "done nothing at all to make good on solemn promises made to the families of El Paso and in places across the state on the graves of their loved ones."
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
It just seems those who keep saying they are against a CW2, are the people who really want one.....lol

My fault. I will keep it simple next time.
 

Sicario

The Executor
I find it interesting that those against "constitutional carry" never resort to providing statistics to support their argument that gun assaults explode when "constitutional carry" is adopted. With 20 STATES adopting it so far, you would think the statistics would be readily available to bolster their claims. :whistle:
 

Macgyver

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Law enforcement groups warn eliminating the license requirement will make the streets more dangerous. Figuring out who can legally carry and who can’t shouldn’t be left to a patrol officer, Lawrence said

Not really that hard. You run their name it that new fangled computer you have in the car.
If they could back a felon you arrest them if they have a gun.
Kind of the exact opposite of running the carry permit to see if it's valid.
 

vestige

Deceased
I find it interesting that those against "constitutional carry" never resort to providing statistics to support their argument that gun assaults explode when "constitutional carry" is adopted. With 20 STATES adopting it so far, you would think the statistics would be readily available to bolster their claims. :whistle:
No explosions in KY since constitutional carry was signed into law by Gov. Bevin.

Louisville has demographically challenged areas that have always had daily shootings. No change in that was or is expected.
 

bartp40

Veteran Member
The state has sent out renewals early for LTC to capture renewal payments before legislation is passed.
LTC affords you the convenience of not having to go through a background check while filling out your 4473.
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
I'm seeing reports of the Texas Senate passes the constitutional carry.
Anyone else seeing any thing on this?
 

Mac

Veteran Member
Procedurally ... the bill goes back to the House and they can vote to concur with Senate changes or vote to go to conference committee. If they go to committee they will negotiate a final version of the bill that both chambers must pass. If that happens it goes to the Governor and if signed it goes into effect Sept. 1st, 2021
 

The Snack Artist

Membership Revoked
I stopped reading here. "El Paso, which is still recovering from one of the worst mass shootings in the nation’s history, when a gunman at Walmart killed 23 people in 2019."

These folks don't think straight. The more carriers you have the quicker this a**hole would have been put down. I would like to think that in a situation I would not run except in the direction of the shooter. I bet I'll never find out.

Sometimes I'll look around church or a restaurant and try to pick out those who I think are carrying.
 

Old Gringo

Senior Member
"Law enforcement groups warn eliminating the license requirement will make the streets more dangerous. Figuring out who can legally carry and who can’t shouldn’t be left to a patrol officer, Lawrence said."


More dangerous for whom ?

A patrol officer responds ( perhaps ) after the crime is committed; why should a citizen not be able to protect themselves during the crime, assault, theft, rape or whatever in an area where the patrol officer does not function.

This is not an issue with a patrol officer.....it's an issue with the victim and the perpetrator. Why the H... cannot I exercise my unalienable right to protect myself ?

CONVINCE ME.
 

DryCreek

Veteran Member
The state has sent out renewals early for LTC to capture renewal payments before legislation is passed.
LTC affords you the convenience of not having to go through a background check while filling out your 4473.
And, it is needed for carry in states that don't have Constitutional Carry enacted but still recognize the Texas LTC in a reciprocity agreement.

That article is funny in all of the scaremongering. I would think that the shooting at the music event in Las Vegas easily eclipses the number killed in the El Paso shooting. It also fails to take into account that you don't need any permit or license to carry a concealed handgun in your vehicle while traveling, and to carry it concealed between your house and you vehicle.
 

thompson

Certa Bonum Certamen
I stopped reading here. "El Paso, which is still recovering from one of the worst mass shootings in the nation’s history, when a gunman at Walmart killed 23 people in 2019."

These folks don't think straight. The more carriers you have the quicker this a**hole would have been put down. I would like to think that in a situation I would not run except in the direction of the shooter. I bet I'll never find out.

Sometimes I'll look around church or a restaurant and try to pick out those who I think are carrying.

Journalists have such short memories these days. The massacre at Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, TX in 1991 was the clear impetus to get concealed carry passed in TX, which was signed into law in 1995.


snipped

The Luby's shooting, also known as the Luby's massacre, was a mass shooting that took place on October 16, 1991, at a Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas. The perpetrator, George Hennard, drove his pickup truck through the front window of the restaurant. He quickly shot and killed 23 people, and wounded 27 others. He had a brief shootout with police, refused their orders to surrender, and fatally shot himself.

[...]

An anti-crime bill was scheduled for a vote in the U.S. House of Representatives the day after the massacre. Some of the Hennard victims had been constituents of Rep. Chet Edwards, and in response he abandoned his opposition to a gun control provision that was part of the bill. The provision, which did not pass, would have banned some weapons and magazines like one used by Hennard.

Families of deceased victims, survivors and policemen received counseling for grief, shock and stress.

The Texas State Rifle Association and others preferred that the state allow its citizens to carry concealed weapons. Democratic governor Ann Richards vetoed such bills, but in 1995 her Republican successor, George W. Bush, signed one into force. The law had been campaigned for by Suzanna Hupp, who was present at the massacre; both of her parents, Alphonse "Al" Gratia and Ursula "Suzy" Gratia, were killed by Hennard. She later testified that she would have liked to have had her .38 revolver, but said, "It was a hundred feet away in my car." (She had feared that if she was caught carrying it she might lose her chiropractor's license.) Hupp testified across the country in support of concealed handgun laws, and was elected to the Texas House of Representatives in 1996.
 

DryCreek

Veteran Member
Anyone know what the amendments were?
One stripped some language from the house bill, and the other added some language. In each case they maintain status quo for prohibiting carry by violent offenders and allowing the police to temporarily disarm you when being detained. Nothing that doesn't already exist under current statutes.
Hopefully it passes out of conference committee with an early vote and gets full house approval this week.
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
iu

1898 Texas Rangers - One Riot, One Man!!
 

DryCreek

Veteran Member
Greetings!


House Bill 1927 by Representative Matt Schaefer was heard in the Senate today and passed 18-13 on Third Reading

The Senate Sponsor Chairman Charles Schwertner worked hard to get this through.

The Senate version is NOT the same as the House version and that must be reconciled before it can go to the Governor's desk.

Keep in mind we have 25 days left in Session and my favorite motto about Session is "Anything can happen and usually does!"

I will keep you all apprised as to it's status!


Thank you!!!!!!
--------------


Andi Turner
Legislative Director
TSRA
 

Papacub

Veteran Member
Texas House & Senate Conferees Reach Agreement on HB 1927!
remote.axd
Bill author, Rep. Matt Schaefer (R-Tyler), and Senate sponsor, Charles Schwertner (R-Georgetown), announced this afternoon that the House and Senate conferees have reached an agreement on House Bill 1927, landmark NRA-backed constitutional carry legislation. House and Senate leaders have indicated that a final vote on the measure will be taken early next week. We will post a link to the conference report language as soon as it becomes available. Stay tuned - thanks to all your efforts, we're almost at the finish line!
schaefer-statement.jpg

schwertner-statement.png
I

 

Papacub

Veteran Member
Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick statement,

May 21, 2021
“A historic victory for the Second Amendment”


AUSTIN – Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick issued this statement today announcing that a full agreement has been reached on House Bill 1927:

“I congratulate Rep. Matt Schaefer, R-Tyler, and Sen. Charles Schwertner, R-Georgetown, for reaching a full agreement on Constitutional Carry – HB 1927. This legislation restores our Second Amendment rights and upholds every Texan’s right to self-defense. HB 1927 is a historic bill and a national model. It includes the thinking of national gun rights advocates and many in Texas law enforcement and affirms our commitment to protect the rights of gun owners and the safety of those in law enforcement.

“As a longtime Second Amendment advocate and NRA member with a strong NRA voting record, I am especially proud of HB 1927. I have worked hard alongside Sen. Schwertner to deliver the votes needed on HB 1927. The bill will become eligible for a final vote early next week, and on that day we will celebrate this great Second Amendment victory.

“Those who said HB 1927 would never pass and who perpetuated stories of a ‘poison pill’ and other conspiracies willfully misled many Second Amendment supporters in Texas. They also underestimated how hard members of the House and Senate were working to pass this bill.

“Once again, I want to thank Rep. Schaefer for his leadership and vision on HB 1927 and Sen. Schwertner for his diligence and commitment to making this legislation a reality. I look forward to celebrating with them when this bill is finally passed next week. “
 

Jeff B.

Don’t let the Piss Ants get you down…
The GOP was backed into a corner. If this bill didn’t pass, or if some maneuver stalls it, there will be hell to pay for the incumbents. Allen West seems to be operating more as a populist than establishment Republican, so I think he’d have a hand in inciting the Grass Roots side of the party.

Jeff B.
 

ArisenCarcass

Veteran Member
One of the main reasons that I never even entertained the thought of moving to supposedly gun-friendly Texas was the lack of decent carry laws.

No OC, No CC without the king's blessing........not cool.
The lack of ability for self-defense was always the sticking point, and with TX moving Blue I thought it would get worse.

I'm happy to see common sense prevailing.



Note: I don't buy many new guns, so I don't need to sidestep the background check.
 

lakemom

Veteran Member
Even if signed into law, I’d maintain my CHL.

IMHO, it would stand to reason that being able to present said license would bring any LEO one had to come in contact with a certain measure of peace knowing that the individual had been vetted and probably wasn't just some moron with a gun.
 
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