CORP/BIZ Silver and Gold...The General Precious Metals Thread

Hfcomms

EN66iq
The metals accumulated for wealth preservation are not a ‘trade’. When it comes to paper trading I fully agree not to put in more than you can afford to lose and for God’s sake in this environment don’t use margin. And when it comes to your phys for core holdings I could care less about the paper suppression games like is still being done, they will get their’s soon enough. If they can smack silver back under $50 I’ll buy more. On the macroeconomic and financial scales nothing has changed except it’s getting worse and of course there no global political risk going on now. :whistle:
 

MartinK9

Contributing Member
The first rule of trading is only to use the money you can afford to lose. Never go into debt to finance a position.

Second rule is cut your losses quickly when you are on the wrong side. Better to take a small loss right away before it gets even bigger.

Third rule is never, ever average down your losses.

The market is willing to teach you, but the tuition is so damn expensive.
Rule No 4. Never take your PMs out on the lake with you, 'twill only end in tears.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq

Tweet from X worth reading

This tweet on my X-feed caught my attention, so I thought it would reassure Substack subscribers who are naturally worried about their gold and silver positions.​


MAR 23

GOLD & SILVER CRASHING NOW: SWISS TOP MANAGER REVEALS THE FINAL MANIPULATION BEFORE THE EXPLOSION

Dieter Lüscher from Premium Strategy Partners AG is one of Switzerland’s most decorated wealth managers. Multiple times named best in the conservative risk class after managing ultra-high-net-worth clients at a major Swiss bank. In his latest interview he cuts through the noise and delivers a crystal-clear warning on gold and silver right now. What he says will stop you mid-scroll.


THE QUARTER-END TRAP EXPOSED

Commercial banks and shorts still hold massive positions and options expiring in just nine days. Their only goal is to push gold and silver as low as possible so those options expire worthless and they pocket maximum profit. This exact game has run for fifteen years but Dieter says we are now in the endgame.

THE LOW IS COMING FAST The bottom in precious metals arrives in the next few days, maybe already today. Even with war escalating daily the price action is purely technical, driven by futures and option expiry. Once that window closes the structural bid returns with force.


THE ASIA POWER SHIFT ACCELERATES

India just announced that from April 1 gold and silver ETFs will price at the local Indian spot, not LBMA. China is openly pushing yuan-denominated gold pricing and demanding it gains importance. COMEX inventories are plunging while Shanghai Gold Exchange official stocks sit at just 600 tonnes.


THE PHYSICAL DEMAND REALITY

Silver supply is turning chaotic with mines shipping directly to producers, bypassing exchanges entirely. Physical metal carries zero counterparty risk, exactly what investors and nations now demand. Wars and exploding debt force massive new money printing that only gold and silver can truly absorb.


THE BOTTOM LINE

Dieter’s message is simple and urgent: this engineered dip is the final gift before the real bull market resumes and pricing power permanently shifts east. Buy the physical metal now while the manipulators still control the paper price.

 

West

Senior

Tweet from X worth reading

This tweet on my X-feed caught my attention, so I thought it would reassure Substack subscribers who are naturally worried about their gold and silver positions.​


MAR 23

GOLD & SILVER CRASHING NOW: SWISS TOP MANAGER REVEALS THE FINAL MANIPULATION BEFORE THE EXPLOSION

Dieter Lüscher from Premium Strategy Partners AG is one of Switzerland’s most decorated wealth managers. Multiple times named best in the conservative risk class after managing ultra-high-net-worth clients at a major Swiss bank. In his latest interview he cuts through the noise and delivers a crystal-clear warning on gold and silver right now. What he says will stop you mid-scroll.


THE QUARTER-END TRAP EXPOSED

Commercial banks and shorts still hold massive positions and options expiring in just nine days. Their only goal is to push gold and silver as low as possible so those options expire worthless and they pocket maximum profit. This exact game has run for fifteen years but Dieter says we are now in the endgame.

THE LOW IS COMING FAST The bottom in precious metals arrives in the next few days, maybe already today. Even with war escalating daily the price action is purely technical, driven by futures and option expiry. Once that window closes the structural bid returns with force.


THE ASIA POWER SHIFT ACCELERATES

India just announced that from April 1 gold and silver ETFs will price at the local Indian spot, not LBMA. China is openly pushing yuan-denominated gold pricing and demanding it gains importance. COMEX inventories are plunging while Shanghai Gold Exchange official stocks sit at just 600 tonnes.


THE PHYSICAL DEMAND REALITY

Silver supply is turning chaotic with mines shipping directly to producers, bypassing exchanges entirely. Physical metal carries zero counterparty risk, exactly what investors and nations now demand. Wars and exploding debt force massive new money printing that only gold and silver can truly absorb.


THE BOTTOM LINE

Dieter’s message is simple and urgent: this engineered dip is the final gift before the real bull market resumes and pricing power permanently shifts east. Buy the physical metal now while the manipulators still control the paper price.

I really wanted silver to drop to $50. Then I really, really wanted some to be available at $50!

The end of the first quarter is near as well.
 

Southside

Has No Timebombs, Lives on Life
I would be all for it…if we could actually buy at that price. You might get close from a major dealer as they hedge their positions but a LCS or pawn is going to clench tight if they paid $60 or $65 and spot drops to $50.
Correct. There will be no silver available without significant premium.
The physical silver shortage has only gotten worse. They have opened no new mines, no new refineries and there are no new discoveries.

Yea, nothing has changed, other than the .Gov manufactured price.
And I am not a seller at these prices. I wasn't a seller at $100 either.

Next time it goes up, so will the # of believers.
 

West

Senior
Run a Craigslist ad or similar if silver drops to $50oz.

Ad...

Silver is only $50 a ounce today. We buy at up to $10 over for ASEs and up to $5 over spot for old 90% silver dollars and coins.

Give the POS pawn brokers and tight LCS a run for their money...at least alittle.

The pawn shops around here pay way below spot and usually half of spot.

I might start hanging out on sidewalk with sign in front of the pawn shop..

" we buy silver at fair prices" or

" I'll work for silver"

:D
 

Southside

Has No Timebombs, Lives on Life
Run a Craigslist ad or similar if silver drops to $50oz.

Ad...

Silver is only $50 a ounce today. We buy at up to $10 over for ASEs and up to $5 over spot for old 90% silver dollars and coins.

Give the POS pawn brokers and tight LCS a run for their money...at least alittle.

The pawn shops around here pay way below spot and usually half of spot.

I might start hanging out on sidewalk with sign in front of the pawn shop..

" we buy silver at fair prices" or

" I'll work for silver"

:D
I have a friend with a storefront. Exactly what he does. Advertises on Facebook Marketplace.
Sells when it is expensive, buys when it is cheap
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
The metals accumulated for wealth preservation are not a ‘trade’. When it comes to paper trading I fully agree not to put in more than you can afford to lose and for God’s sake in this environment don’t use margin. And when it comes to your phys for core holdings I could care less about the paper suppression games like is still being done, they will get their’s soon enough. If they can smack silver back under $50 I’ll buy more. On the macroeconomic and financial scales nothing has changed except it’s getting worse and of course there no global political risk going on now. :whistle:

I would add to this that physical should follow under the same heading as paper in terms of not sinking more than you can afford to lose into it. The individual I mentioned in a previous post wasn't holding paper, he holds a significant physical supply. But he did it with the belief that it would appreciate rather than depreciate in the market. Now he is in a serious bind.

Thankfully this guy wasn't one of the ones that took fiat out of other locations to pay for his physical, he used loose liquidity fiat that he just had sitting around being lazy and not earning much interest. But he failed to factor in the depreciation that occurred between when he bought it and today and what that would mean for him moving forward.

He can't afford to just sell it as it will trigger a capital gain (don't ask me, I'm not that deep into his business). It isn't just interest that he has lost, it is actual principal. And being right up next to pulling the plug and retiring he was counting on that principle.

Now he says he is looking at at least another year working, probably more. Because even if metals spike and he can get out at cost, he's lost the opportunity to invest the fiat in something else even if it was just an annuity with a guaranteed income and LTC rider or similar. Some of the annuities are coming with a better than decent signing bonus which is another loss for him.
 

markshere2

Senior Member
The first rule of trading is only to use the money you can afford to lose. Never go into debt to finance a position.

Second rule is cut your losses quickly when you are on the wrong side. Better to take a small loss right away before it gets even bigger.

Third rule is never, ever average down your losses.

The market is willing to teach you, but the tuition is so damn expensive.
Agree with Rule 1.

Rule 2 - depends on your definition of "trading". The last 6 months of PM price volatility demonstrates that some of the big gains of Sep-Jan can be negated by Big banks playing "screw the little guy".

But selling quickly when you incur paper losses?!?

Not I, said the little red hen.

There are WAAAAY too many REAL factors hammering at the price: Inflation, printing money like there's no tomorrow, demand for industrial applications, demand for computer / AI MFG, demand for munitions systems in wartime....

I believe (like DOC) that very expensive silver and gold is coming. I'm hanging on to my metal for quite a while, thank you.
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Also nope on the “deposit in any bank” assumption. At a minimum every month I do business with several national banks, regional banks, local banks, credit unions, and digital only financial institutions. To deposit gold or silver, assuming that branch and/or bank is capable of it, they must first be verified (or from an accepted source/form) for value and then converted to fiat.

You do realize that there are now bank branches that can’t even accept cash deposits, right?

Also, there are IRS stipulations on “face value” PM coin usage. Look at the ones for payroll in PMs. There’s been several court cases that have set various precedents.

Kathy, there may be some banks that do not accept cash but I have never encountered one. Then again, I only deal with the branches of larger banks in the Gulf South, not huge New York-based ones.

You are wrong about banks - or at least banks which accept cash - not accepting legal tender gold and silver US coins. I actually had a friendly and long conversation about this with my bank's local branch manager last year and brought her real samples of these very expensive coins. The conversation wasn't prompted by any difficulties I had with the bank, but by her genuine interest in the coins.

Basically, any coins or bills can become legal tender by receiving the imprimatur of the Treasury Department that they are US currency/coins. It doesn't matter what they're made of.

If I wanted to make a cash deposit at my local bank and said deposit included dimes and quarters, they'd accept it with no questions asked. If in that deposit, I included a gold American Eagle with a face value of $50 and an old American Double-Eagle with a face value of $20, they would accept them - just like the dimes and quarters - with no need to go through any verification or IRS procedures like you stated. Of course they would only accept them at their face value of $50 and $20 respectively, so no one is going to deposit coins with a retail value of close to $10,000 for their small face value.

You may recall from my previous posts that my own father was a bank president and began explaining all of these things to me when I was a child.

Best
Doc
 

Southside

Has No Timebombs, Lives on Life
The biggest problem with "trading" commodities is the in and out costs are high. Not including the arbitrarily high taxes, and it becomes an easy choice as a long-term hold.
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I would add to this that physical should follow under the same heading as paper in terms of not sinking more than you can afford to lose into it. The individual I mentioned in a previous post wasn't holding paper, he holds a significant physical supply. But he did it with the belief that it would appreciate rather than depreciate in the market. Now he is in a serious bind.

Thankfully this guy wasn't one of the ones that took fiat out of other locations to pay for his physical, he used loose liquidity fiat that he just had sitting around being lazy and not earning much interest. But he failed to factor in the depreciation that occurred between when he bought it and today and what that would mean for him moving forward.

He can't afford to just sell it as it will trigger a capital gain (don't ask me, I'm not that deep into his business). It isn't just interest that he has lost, it is actual principal. And being right up next to pulling the plug and retiring he was counting on that principle.

Now he says he is looking at at least another year working, probably more. Because even if metals spike and he can get out at cost, he's lost the opportunity to invest the fiat in something else even if it was just an annuity with a guaranteed income and LTC rider or similar. Some of the annuities are coming with a better than decent signing bonus which is another loss for him.

Kathy, you said in part, "He can't afford to just sell it as it will trigger a capital gain (don't ask me, I'm not that deep into his business)." That conflicts with what you said about that person in a previous paragraph. If he lost money on his precious metals purchase - which is entirely possible to do - he wouldn't owe any capital gains taxes. The key words here are capital gains...not capital losses.

But, and it's an important "but," you can buy physical gold or gold mining equities and watch their values rapidly rise and fall, like hyperactive kids on a seesaw. You don't pay any capital gains or book any losses until you sell them.

Best
Doc
 

West

Senior
The biggest problem with "trading" commodities is the in and out costs are high. Not including the arbitrarily high taxes, and it becomes an easy choice as a long-term hold.

I thought it was the weight. Wearing holes in pockets. And getting change for that ASE or AGE when one buys a few beers, a dinner and good company with one.

:D
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The biggest problem with "trading" commodities is the in and out costs are high. Not including the arbitrarily high taxes, and it becomes an easy choice as a long-term hold.

Southside, this is why I don't (very) actively trade my brokerage account. My broker's a nice guy, but he runs a full service office and every trade I make incurs a brokerage commission (which includes his commission). When any of my equities are severely down, I just sit on them. This is not because I'm (overly) stupid, but because I've studied a given stock very carefully before I bought and understand that the precious metals world is extremely volatile. The ups and downs don't (necessarily) mean that I hold a poor company, but almost always are a reflection of the underlying gold and silver markets.

If I was constantly making trades like a day trader, I'd go nuts and lose a fortune in commissions. So, on a base of solid companies, I just ride out those fluctuations knowing the ultimate end game.

Best
Doc
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
Kathy, you said in part, "He can't afford to just sell it as it will trigger a capital gain (don't ask me, I'm not that deep into his business)." That conflicts with what you said about that person in a previous paragraph. If he lost money on his precious metals purchase - which is entirely possible to do - he wouldn't owe any capital gains taxes. The key words here are capital gains...not capital losses.

But, and it's an important "but," you can buy physical gold or gold mining equities and watch their values rapidly rise and fall, like hyperactive kids on a seesaw. You don't pay any capital gains or book any losses until you sell them.

Best
Doc

Like I said, I'm not that deep into his business. It's possible it has something to do with what he had the money in and how he got it into the physical. People treat taxes like they are separate mole hills but the reality is that it isn't always that simple. If he bought the physical metals inside some kind of account ... like a 1031 or REIT though those are real estate tools ... it could be creating tax complications/implications for him that he didn't factor into his plans.

It is possible to sell an asset for a loss and still owe capital gains on it depending on other factors like where the money came from and how it was invested. The origin of the money does have an effect.

I can't give you all that info because that is his circus and his monkeys and none of my business (thank gawd). I just know he find himself in a situation that is going to require him to stay in the workforce considerably longer than he had meant to. And the more "down" and the longer it is down, the longer he is going to have to continue working to make up for what he could have been doing with that fiat.

I just offered it as a cautionary tale. Things aren't always as straightforward and simple as expected. That's similar to what people are finding with the designation of legal tender for PMs in Florida. There's always a catch, sometimes multiple catches.
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
Speaking of the legal tender designation in Florida. I know a couple of fiduciaries that are warning their clients that they need to really up their game for estate planning. Update wills, consider gifting the PMs to their heirs or whomever for taxe purposes, making sure that primary residence is firmly establish in whatever state is most favorable to their circumstances, etc. Thankfully Florida doesn't have an estate tax - we got rid of it in 2004 - but the state can still take a chunk in the probate process. Furthermore, other states have Inheritance tax and gift tax and of course the Feds have their own estate taxes. It isn't as hard to hit the current threshold if you hold too much PM and/or real estate or a combination of the two with some other collectibles thrown in. Farmers have been finding this out for decades.

The taxes issues is one of the "unintended" consequences of pushing PMs to be designated legal tender. Whomever comes after Trump could also significantly lower the threshold for estate taxes.

The generation currently holding PMs might not care but whomever gets all that stuff off the bottom of ye ol' Lake of Sadden where the boat sank, may very well have a significantly different opinion once they find out what it is going to cost them.
 

Southside

Has No Timebombs, Lives on Life
Southside, this is why I don't (very) actively trade my brokerage account. My broker's a nice guy, but he runs a full service office and every trade I make incurs a brokerage commission (which includes his commission). When any of my equities are severely down, I just sit on them. This is not because I'm (overly) stupid, but because I've studied a given stock very carefully before I bought and understand that the precious metals world is extremely volatile. The ups and downs don't (necessarily) mean that I hold a poor company, but almost always are a reflection of the underlying gold and silver markets.

If I was constantly making trades like a day trader, I'd go nuts and lose a fortune in commissions. So, on a base of solid companies, I just ride out those fluctuations knowing the ultimate end game.

Best
Doc
Yea, pretty much the same for me, except this time, when my max # is reached, I will get out & wait to short it down.
At least on the stock side. The Gold & Silver(Core position) is forever stuff, to be traded only for life, land & home.
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
Taxes on PM? I walk into the local coin shop. put cash on the counter, and walk away with solver,, then put silver on the counter and walk away with cash.. what taxes?

No sales tax in FL for PMs. That was written into the law. I was talking about the Estate type stuff. If the PMs raise your estate to the threshold that your state has designated then yeah, technically the PMs are going to be taxed, simply as part of the bulk estate.

That's why estate planning is going to be important for those holding PMs. Can't have it both ways ... PMs being legal tender and therefore trackable and traceable, or PMs being held under the radar until used.

That's one of the reasons I've always theorized that confiscation isn't part of the plan with regard to PMs. They'll simply create so many rules and mandates that their use will be a lot more problematical than a lot of people are thinking far enough ahead for in their plans. Now layer on top of that the likelihood of a conversion to digital for most transactions (by mandate) and you wind up with complications on top of complications. And that still doesn't take into account that less than 10% of the US population holds PMs. And I'm going to say probably a lot less than 10% once to factor in that most people's gold and silver are in the form of paper and/or digital accounts.
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
FYI ... the feds already tax it:


Long-term gains on gold, silver, and platinum are taxed at a flat 28% collectible rate, regardless of your ordinary tax bracket. Metal futures fall under IRS Section 1256, providing a 60% long-term and 40% short-term tax split even if the contract is closed in a day.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Gee, I think we live in different worlds.

Most of the small amount of metals we've been blessed to be able to get were purchased decades ago, from places that are no longer in business. As Doc 1 and others have said, its perfectly legal to go to a pawn shop or coin store and sell them a couple silver eagles...walk out with cash.

There's currently NO way for the "authorities" to even know about the generational transfer of privately held stocks of metals. Why would someone (who trusts their family- I know, thats not a given) not simply leave a note "to be opened in the event of my death" that states that "my stash is located at xxx, the code for the lock is xxx, there is this much in total, and this is how I want it disbursed".

Or simply give it as gifts to each of your beneficiaries *before* you die. Hand to hand...no paperwork, no proof.

Illegal? Yeah, probably...at least the part where you didn't voluntarily give the info to the taxing authorities so it could be wasted on funding stuff you personally hold to be ethically or morally repugnant. So?

My motto for at least 20 years has been, "another day, another felony". Yet I'm a rural farm grandma who tries hard to not break to Ten Commandments. But what they've gotten most people to believe is "normal", if not exactly "right", especially when it comes to taxation, is unreal! Our founders rebelled over a TOTAL tax rate of just above 2 1/2%!!

Anyway, yes, of course, if all your "metal" is in the form of funds or stocks, it will absolutely be subject to whatever theft the government decides is sufficient at that time..as I mentioned previously, Mandami is trying to change NY's death taxes from "only over 7.5 million" to " anything over $750,000"...and change the maximum rate from 14% to 50%.

For many folks, one of the positive points about physical PMs is they are private.

Summerthyme
 

Great Northwet

Veteran Member
I would be all for it…if we could actually buy at that price. You might get close from a major dealer as they hedge their positions but a LCS or pawn is going to clench tight if they paid $60 or $65 and spot drops to $50.
If it gets even close to that price I might try it at a LCS for one or two tubes. I know a couple dealers and they play it straight with me, so I have a good chance at getting very close to spot.
 

Great Northwet

Veteran Member

Tweet from X worth reading

This tweet on my X-feed caught my attention, so I thought it would reassure Substack subscribers who are naturally worried about their gold and silver positions.​


MAR 23

GOLD & SILVER CRASHING NOW: SWISS TOP MANAGER REVEALS THE FINAL MANIPULATION BEFORE THE EXPLOSION

Dieter Lüscher from Premium Strategy Partners AG is one of Switzerland’s most decorated wealth managers. Multiple times named best in the conservative risk class after managing ultra-high-net-worth clients at a major Swiss bank. In his latest interview he cuts through the noise and delivers a crystal-clear warning on gold and silver right now. What he says will stop you mid-scroll.


THE QUARTER-END TRAP EXPOSED

Commercial banks and shorts still hold massive positions and options expiring in just nine days. Their only goal is to push gold and silver as low as possible so those options expire worthless and they pocket maximum profit. This exact game has run for fifteen years but Dieter says we are now in the endgame.

THE LOW IS COMING FAST The bottom in precious metals arrives in the next few days, maybe already today. Even with war escalating daily the price action is purely technical, driven by futures and option expiry. Once that window closes the structural bid returns with force.


THE ASIA POWER SHIFT ACCELERATES

India just announced that from April 1 gold and silver ETFs will price at the local Indian spot, not LBMA. China is openly pushing yuan-denominated gold pricing and demanding it gains importance. COMEX inventories are plunging while Shanghai Gold Exchange official stocks sit at just 600 tonnes.


THE PHYSICAL DEMAND REALITY

Silver supply is turning chaotic with mines shipping directly to producers, bypassing exchanges entirely. Physical metal carries zero counterparty risk, exactly what investors and nations now demand. Wars and exploding debt force massive new money printing that only gold and silver can truly absorb.


THE BOTTOM LINE

Dieter’s message is simple and urgent: this engineered dip is the final gift before the real bull market resumes and pricing power permanently shifts east. Buy the physical metal now while the manipulators still control the paper price.

Nice find btw.
 

Roger Thornhill

Some irascible old curmudgeon
The long-term capital gains tax is entirely dependent on your taxable income and filing status. Since I've owned my PMs for more than a year, and my taxable income is below $48,350, even though I'm single I can still sell my PMs without incurring a tax liability. Not so fast, pal. See the addendum.

Long-term capital gains tax rate 2025​


Tax filing status0% tax rate15% tax rate20% tax rate
SingleUp to $48,350$48,351 to $533,400$533,401 and up
Married Filing SeparatelyUp to $48,350$48,351 to $300,000$300,001 and up
Head of HouseholdUp to $64,750$64,751 to $566,700$566,701 and up
Married Filing Jointly or Qualified Surviving SpouseUp to $96,700$96,701 to $600,050$600,051 and up

ETA: After digging a little further, some bad news...​

Collectibles are considered alternative investments by the IRS and include things like art, stamps, COINS, cards, comics, rare items, antiques, and so on. The IRS even states on their website that they tax coins at a higher rate to discourage buying and selling!

So the way to avoid taxes on PMs is buy rounds or bars, and melt them down to sell as industrial commodities, not collectibles.
 
Last edited:

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
why would they have any idea at all what metals you own? no one but 1 of my daughters knows where it really is, and what to do with it,, and why would she add it to my estate, thats to be taken, hidden and mouth kept shut

Because there will always be someone that will rat another person out ... a clerk, a secretary, a feduciary too scared of losing their license, someone in the clerk's office while your property goes through probate, a neighbor, someone that takes advantage of what they find out about you online, clerk of a business you bought your metals from ... etc etc.

Naiveté is very attractive to those who will always seek to take advantage of it even if it is just for a power trip that has nothing to do with you. And people always get caught at the point they least expect it and worse, never plan for.
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
I think I'm going to start buying silver shot, like jewelers use, and save the sales receipts showing origin and purity. Not classified as collectible, but still saleable fairly easily.

Pure Casting Silver Shot 9999 Fine

Yep, but don't plan on it being considered legal tender at any point. As is the case in Florida and other states that have classified (or said they will) PMs as legal tender there are always catches. First, the form the PMs have to be in for non-government transactions. You have to prove purity and weight and a few other things. No sales tax, but every transaction a reportable event. For government transactions, digital transfer only from state approved and licensed accounts. I'm not even sure how the fees are going to be applied and/or accounted for ... but there's that reportable event issue again.
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
From legalclarity.com

The IRS imposes specific reporting requirements on transactions involving precious metals such as gold, silver, platinum, and palladium. These obligations apply to both the investor and the brokers and custodians facilitating the exchange. The complexity of compliance stems from how the IRS classifies the metal, considering its form and how it is traded on regulated markets.

Investors must understand the tax implications for precious metals, which vary significantly depending on whether the asset is held as bullion, numismatic coins, or within a retirement account. The IRS requires brokers to issue Form 1099-B to the seller and the IRS when a reportable sale occurs.

Failure to adhere to the federal reporting statutes can lead to penalties and interest charges. The responsibility for reporting specific precious metals transactions often falls to the broker who effects the sale. Brokers must collect the seller’s Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) for reportable transactions, which is included on the Form 1099-B.

Investors remain responsible for calculating and reporting any capital gains or losses realized on their tax returns, regardless of whether the broker was required to file an informational form. A separate federal reporting obligation applies to businesses, including precious metals dealers, that receive large cash payments.
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
Additionally what a lot of people get confused about is the $10,000 reportable transaction amount and what qualifies as cash.

First off, the $10,000 is when the mandatory reportable transaction is triggered. That doesn't mean that custodial entities, banks, etc. don't report transaction that are less that 10K. Banks and credit unions do it all the time to CYA "unusual" transactions, etc.

Furthermore:

What Counts as “Cash”?

For reporting purposes, “cash” includes:
  • U.S. or foreign currency
  • Cashier’s checks
  • Money orders
  • Bank drafts
  • Traveler’s checks
However, there is a key nuance. If those cash instruments are $10,000 or less individually, and their combined total exceeds $10,000, they qualify as reportable cash. So they can add transactions together over time to create the reportable transaction.

IRS Form 8300 applies when you pay cash whereas Form 1099-B applies when you sell certain metals back to a dealer.

Unlike Form 8300, 1099-B reporting depends on product type, purity, and quantity, not simply dollar value.

Reportable Gold Sales​

Historically, dealers reported:

  • 1 oz Gold Maple Leaf coins (25 coins or more)
  • 1 oz Gold Krugerrands (25 coins or more)
  • 1 oz Gold Mexican Onza/Libertads (25 coins or more)
  • Gold bars totaling 1 kilo (32.15 troy ounces) or more
  • Gold bars with a minimum fineness of .995

However, industry interpretation continues to evolve. Some dealers now interpret updated guidance differently for certain gold coins. Others take a conservative approach and continue traditional reporting standards.

Silver has its own reportable thresholds as does palladium and platinum. They're all different. And there are some exceptions ... possibly, depending on what standards the seller/buyer/business is using.

That said, reportable transactions and taxation are not the same thing. At all.

The IRS taxes profits, not transactions.

If you sell gold or silver at a gain, you owe capital gains tax on the difference between:

  • Your cost basis
  • And your sale price
If you sell at a loss, no capital gain applies.

Cost basis becomes especially important in inherited or gifted metals. Generally:

  • For gifts, the value on the date of receipt establishes basis
  • For inherited metals, the date of passing typically sets the stepped-up basis
Because every situation differs, investors should maintain purchase receipts and documentation.
Also, rules change all the time. For instance, Geographic Targeting Orders in select Southwest border ZIP codes temporarily required reporting as low as $1,000.

Like I've said more than a few times. Whoever wants to hold PMs should have that right. But just like with fiat or anything else, know the reporting requirements, tax implications, and understand those requirements are constantly changing. I think digital-only monetary processes is what will eventually be put in place and replace most physical currencies ... fiat or PMs or anything else for that matter. And I don't think confiscation is realistic, they'll simply mandate, rule, fee, and tax things to death that aren't in the digital process. Sucks, but there is too much current evidence that shows things are heading that way.
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
That's not because they are hungry, it's because they are stupid.

It is a result of less than 10% of the US population holding PMs and of those 10% many of them only hold it in digital/paper form. When you have 90%+ of a population choosing not to participate in any fashion in a market, that market is going to be problematic and it will be easy for 90%+ of a population to vote to make things even more problematic for the less than 10% of the population.

What is stupid is ignoring that factual reality. Shouldn't stop people from buying PMs if they want them. It should make them think just how they plan on using those PMs at some point.
 

Roger Thornhill

Some irascible old curmudgeon

... Meet Jane Street. They made $20.5 billion in revenue in 2024 with only 3,000 employees, more than Citibank and Bank of America who both have 200,000+ employees. They do not bet on markets going up or down. They bet on markets MOVING. 87% of their $662 billion portfolio is in options, which make money when prices swing hard and fast.

In Q4 2025, Jane Street bought 20.67 million shares of SLV, the most liquid silver ETF in the world, up from just 41,100 shares the quarter before. That is a 500x increase while silver was rallying hard, and nobody knew.

- January 29: Silver hits $121.64 ATH with everyone maximally long.

- January 30: Silver collapses 30% in 30 hours, the worst precious metals crash since 1980, with CME raising margin requirements mid crash and cascading liquidations making it worse.

- February 25: Jane Street's 13F filing becomes public and the world finds out they were the LARGEST holder of SLV the entire time, bigger than BlackRock and Morgan Stanley. Silver is now dowm another 25% after this disclosure.

So Jane Street built a $1.3B secret position while silver rallied, silver crashed 30% in 30 hours, the world found out they were the biggest holder only AFTER the crash, and silver dropped another 25% on top.

49% down total, sitting at $69 today.

Here is what most people are missing.

A 13F filing only shows long equity positions and does NOT show short positions, derivatives or the full options book, meaning Jane Street could have had a massive short bet on silver through options and nobody would know.

Step 1: buy $1.3B of SLV and become the largest holder.

Step 2: build a 10x larger options position betting on silver falling.

Step 3: use that size to push the price down, ETF loses a little and options make 10x back.

Step 4: nobody finds out until 45 days after quarter end when the crash is already done.

This is not just a theory. There is documented proof Jane Street ran this EXACT playbook in India between 2023 and 2025. SEBI wrote a 105-page order, the largest fine in their history, and impounded $570 million from Jane Street.

On Bank Nifty expiry days, Jane Street bought massive amounts of index stocks in the morning to push prices up while simultaneously building short options positions 7.3 times larger than their stock position.

Then in the afternoon they sold everything, the index dropped and their puts printed money. On a single day they lost $7.5M on stocks and made $89M on options.

The stock trade was just the cost of running the operation. SEBI found this across 18 expiry days and a whistleblower said it happened on 90 to 95% of all trading days.

Much more at the link - https://x.com/BullTheoryio/status/2036156917417123960
 
Last edited:

ssonb

Veteran Member
What I see is increase in Paper,Paper,Paper decrease in Paper,paper while LJ kept the physical!
So in our perspective what is the problem?
 

Southside

Has No Timebombs, Lives on Life
Bankers and lawyers games. Reality is how they manipulate markets. Truly a Den of Robbers!

Disgusting.
The claim is that options add to market liquidity.
My take is that they give the large trader the ability to steal.

And this is a great example.
But you can only steal till the product is in very short supply.

And we're almost there.
I can wait. My ship will com in. already up 8x. Don't care.
 
Top