Samuel Adams
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I admit…..I panicked this morning and bought all the gold, silver, copper and toilet paper I could get my hands on.
I’m such a loser.
CORP/BIZ Silver and Gold...The General Precious Metals Thread
- Thread starter Wyominglarry
- Start date
I admit…..I panicked this morning and bought all the gold, silver, copper and toilet paper I could get my hands on.
I’m such a loser.
markshere2
Senior Member
I'm a big fan of TP. Making do with leaves or corncobs or newsprint - not my idea of good clean fun.
I continue to buy TP so my 6-10 month supply is maintained s and occasionally increases.
And whenever the silver price dips, I store a little wealth there, too.
I continue to buy TP so my 6-10 month supply is maintained s and occasionally increases.
And whenever the silver price dips, I store a little wealth there, too.
Wyominglarry
Veteran Member
No way the PMs markets are corrupt or manipulated. Just honest and fair price discovery and an unlimited supply of silver to meet all the needs and demands for manufacturing and retail supply. I for one totally trust the big PM banks to be honest and always thinking of how to help the small investor. Prove me wrong. I double dog dare you.
Yep, us too! Except, after our move, hubby swore he had brought the last package in from the storage unit. I was *sure* there was more...described the large tote it was in, etc. Nope...no more out there!
So, I started buying a package every time I shopped.
Last fall, we finally reorganized the storage units. I now have THREE large totes of TP...
Summerthyme
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Two of my favorite PM experts together today...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyhSWncnfvU
(runtime 49min)
This one I'll not only be sharing far & wide,
but I'll be listening to again myself.
Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
(runtime 49min)
This one I'll not only be sharing far & wide,
but I'll be listening to again myself.
Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
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Doc1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I admit…..I panicked this morning and bought all the gold, silver, copper and toilet paper I could get my hands on.
I’m such a loser.
Actually, that would be an excellent move. The big problem is that you can't find (retail) PMs at or near the published COMEX chart prices. Now, it's possible that you could find a cash-squeezed dealer who might give you that kind of price but it would be relatively rare. Most of the big metals dealers actually operate on very thin margins and they do get hit by the (manipulated and engineered) price crashes.
What I suspect (and have my own sources to confirm it) is happening is that the big bullion and commercial banks involved in the metals trade have engineered this crash and are using it to both accumulate more metals and to straighten out their short trade books. Once that is accomplished, you will see metals skyrocket once again.
I have explained this part previously and I hate to make repetitive posts, but silver is in a "structural deficit." That's just fancy words to say that the world isn't producing enough silver to meet demand. For some years now, this deficit has been made up for with above ground stocks.
The problem is that the above ground stocks are nearing depletion levels. When the above ground stocks are essentially depleted and the mines still aren't producing enough silver, it can only be addressed with higher prices. The banks won't be able to print more "paper silver" to address an actual physical metal shortage.
Much higher silver prices are in the future, but unfortunately I can't tell you when.
Best
Doc
Hfcomms
EN66iq
Heh.....the 'funny' thing is, is that a lot of people were despondent when the metals exploded and said they were waiting for a pullback so they could get in. Wanna bet what kind of a percentage of people that said that are taking advantage of it now? I'd wager not many.
People that were saying $120 silver was too expensive were saying that at $100, $75, $50, $35 and $25 and every time they said if the prices pulled back then they would get in on it.
People that were saying $120 silver was too expensive were saying that at $100, $75, $50, $35 and $25 and every time they said if the prices pulled back then they would get in on it.
markshere2
Senior Member
I scored 13 oz at my LCS on Friday. Another $1K of fiat paper stored in an inflation-resistant place.
Great Northwet
Veteran Member
Echoing Doc1 and Hfcomms, I'm in for another 60oz. at $105 and so what, it's just a matter of time.
I also have a source like Doc1 who says the same thing.
I also have a source like Doc1 who says the same thing.
Doc1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
In my post #3,128, where I predicted higher future metals prices, member King Samson responded with an LOL emoji. I hadn't posted anything humorous, so he was obviously laughing at my prediction of higher metals prices going forward. And that's OK. He has every right to post anything he'd like in response to anything I post.
But I wanted members to engage in a little reflection. In the decades I have been a member here I have often posted on precious metals and offered my opinions of their future moves. In all of those years (as far as I know and can remember), I don't think I've ever been wrong. The reason I can have such a meticulous track record is because I never offer timelines, only future directions. This is not as difficult as it may seem. I have mentioned in the past that my father was a bank president and while I did not choose to go down the banking path, I was exposed to some high level "insider" thinking. Additionally, my opinions were and are informed by my own research.
As long as the US Government continues to inflate the currency at such obscene rates and as long as it continues its insidious deficit spending, The US Dollar is destined to continue to go down and the metals (and everything else) are destined to continue to become more expensive in nominal terms. That is not complicated, though economists and banking officials love muddying the issue with the use of ever more convoluted linguistics.
When pondering economics, always recall this wisdom:
“Don’t use a five-dollar word when a fifty-cent word will do.”
― Mark Twain
Best
Doc
But I wanted members to engage in a little reflection. In the decades I have been a member here I have often posted on precious metals and offered my opinions of their future moves. In all of those years (as far as I know and can remember), I don't think I've ever been wrong. The reason I can have such a meticulous track record is because I never offer timelines, only future directions. This is not as difficult as it may seem. I have mentioned in the past that my father was a bank president and while I did not choose to go down the banking path, I was exposed to some high level "insider" thinking. Additionally, my opinions were and are informed by my own research.
As long as the US Government continues to inflate the currency at such obscene rates and as long as it continues its insidious deficit spending, The US Dollar is destined to continue to go down and the metals (and everything else) are destined to continue to become more expensive in nominal terms. That is not complicated, though economists and banking officials love muddying the issue with the use of ever more convoluted linguistics.
When pondering economics, always recall this wisdom:
“Don’t use a five-dollar word when a fifty-cent word will do.”
― Mark Twain
Best
Doc
Hfcomms
EN66iq
And it's really just that simple to determine what metal prices are going to do from here. Leaving everything else aside if the government keeps adding debt at this pace and increasing now with the Iran war, and the only way to pay even the interest on the debt is to print the currency out of thin air to do so metal prices will continue to reflect this. Gold and silver are not going up as much as the dollar is going down.
Then why is anyone selling here on TB2K and getting paid in fiat? Serious question by the way.
I can't speak about every motivation.
Here's just one possible scenario.
Suppose a guy has been buying silver for years. 8 bucks an ounce. 12 bucks an oz. 30 bucks an oz. So on an so forth.
Dollar cost averaging at 15 an ounce for argument sake.
Surely you don't think anyone with that mindset is holding onto fiat after a sale. It is burning their pocket like a sailor's on shore-leave. You sell for 80 what you bought for 15. Then exchanged it for something else. "Medium of exchange".
Classic real world example: Remember a few years back when NOBODY could find 22lr ammunition? I know a smart guy that traded a few bricks of 22lr for a brand new Glock. IIRC he had about 100 bucks in the exchange.
I know you're into rentals so this might not apply to you. Your question would be like asking why anyone owning a bunch of investment property ever sold any...
Doc1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I can answer that question easily (and I have explained all of this in the past). While I decry fiat, I have no problem using it. It is "the coin of the realm" so to speak and using anything else in day to day commerce - at this time - would be unwieldy. At this time, virtually all local commerce is in Dollars. What would you suggest I do? Try to pay for everything in New Orleans Mardi Gras doubloons (LOL)? I'll note that I do some minor trading in silver with some local merchants who see the future of the Dollar just like I do and who prefer to be paid in silver. What my DW and I do not do is save in Dollars, seeing them as guaranteed certificates of confiscation. We see Dollars as a transactional currency, but not as a savings vehicle.
Kathy, you should recall that I've previously explained that I'm retired and, decades ago, intentionally planned to bolster my retirement with metals. Everything's not in metal; I have a stock brokerage account, bank accounts and other assets. I don't think this is at all odd. Many people bolster their retirement with antiques, camera collections and an infinite variety of other hobby and special interest items.
As to why I sell metals here, it's very simple. I used to sell a lot on eBay, but I found their customer service difficult and their commissions became too high. By selling here on TB2K I can offer our members deals that are below market values while still getting a return on my investment. Also, if you look at my transactions over the years, the totals are very modest.
I'll also note that at times in the past, I have sold metals for less than my cost just to keep the cash flow going. There are annoying, ongoing bills for things like electricity, insurance, doctors, hospitals, groceries, fuel and taxes...probably not all that different than your expenses.
At one point I suggested that we wear animal skins and forage in the woods for our sustenance, but my wife wasn't at all keen on that idea ;-)
Best
Doc
Ok, thst’s you.
Essentially you are selling an investment for fiat to pay your expenses. Makes sense since you consider yourself well into retirement and no longer have need of it to appreciate. It is what I would consider common sense.
However that is a different philosophy from the stackers buying it to hold until it becomes legal tender they can use to pay bills with directly.
It would appear you are no longer a stacker as has been descrbed multiple times. You’re an investor taking profit in fiat.
Doc1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Aw, you disappointed me. I thought you were going to make a quip about my "wearing animal skins and foraging in the woods" remark ;-)
Best
Doc
Doc1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Kathy wrote,
"However that is a different philosophy from the stackers they can use to pay bills with directly."
Just a few observations: I don't think I've ever met anyone "buying it to hold until it becomes legal tender." All of the metals people hold in the form of US coinage are legal tender and could be spent as such today. Modern 1 oz Gold Eagles have a face value of $50 while they're currently selling for close to $5000. The same is true for old US Double Eagle ($20) gold coins, which are also selling for close to $5000.
You could deposit both of them in any bank and you would receive credit for $50 and $20 respectively. Not many people would be inclined to do that! Similarly, you could spend or deposit pre-'65 silver coins, as they are also legal tender, but you would only receive face value for them, not their enhanced silver value. A lot of people hold foreign precious metal coins, like the gold and silver South African Krugerrands and Canadian Maples. These coins are not and will almost certainly never become US legal tender. The same is true for precious metals held in bar or round form.
So, no one is "buying it to hold until it becomes legal tender." They are buying it with an eye towards future appreciation or buying to protect their wealth from the ravages of inflation.
Best
Doc
"However that is a different philosophy from the stackers they can use to pay bills with directly."
Just a few observations: I don't think I've ever met anyone "buying it to hold until it becomes legal tender." All of the metals people hold in the form of US coinage are legal tender and could be spent as such today. Modern 1 oz Gold Eagles have a face value of $50 while they're currently selling for close to $5000. The same is true for old US Double Eagle ($20) gold coins, which are also selling for close to $5000.
You could deposit both of them in any bank and you would receive credit for $50 and $20 respectively. Not many people would be inclined to do that! Similarly, you could spend or deposit pre-'65 silver coins, as they are also legal tender, but you would only receive face value for them, not their enhanced silver value. A lot of people hold foreign precious metal coins, like the gold and silver South African Krugerrands and Canadian Maples. These coins are not and will almost certainly never become US legal tender. The same is true for precious metals held in bar or round form.
So, no one is "buying it to hold until it becomes legal tender." They are buying it with an eye towards future appreciation or buying to protect their wealth from the ravages of inflation.
Best
Doc
West
Senior
Also hold for insurance. And a excellent way to save with out it being known!
In today's world people pay to protect their identity. Why? Because digital fiat in many forms is a known know, by criminals and legal criminals.
Frivolous lawsuits, frivolous or legal wage attachments, etc....
Add...around 2010 our home owners insurance was around $3k a year. And if our paid off home burned down the pay off was only $20k the value of the manufactured home.
At the time and still do we have a general liability/theft/fire policy on our business buildings and the same property.
So we started stacking PMs with the extra monies saved by canceling the home owners insurance.
Worked out excellent.
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When have I ever said anything like that to anyone on this forum?
Nope on the legal tender thing. Florida just signed into law that gold and silver can be used as legal tender, but as I have noted in recent posts, there is a freakton of restrictions on ghe form it can be accepted in. Digital only. Digital only from an approved and licensed source. Etc etc yada yada. Each transaction is an actionable event. Florida doesn’t have state income tax and they’ve so for prevented sales tax issues, but that doesn’t mean the tracked transactions aren’t be collated and reported to someone(s) for some purpose(s).
Also nope on the “deposit in any bank” assumption. At a minimum every month I do business with several national banks, regional banks, local banks, credit unions, and digital only financial institutions. To deposit gold or silver, assuming that branch and/or bank is capable of it, they must first be verified (or from an accepted source/form) for value and then converted to fiat.
You do realize that there are now bank branches that can’t even accept cash deposits, right?
Also, there are IRS stipulations on “face value” PM coin usage. Look at the ones for payroll in PMs. There’s been several court cases that have set various precedents.
Understand the insurance use. Basically a store of wealth that if not used can be passed on to the next generation. It is the most common reason for holding PMs unless the current “digital PMs in retirement accounts” has surpassed it. But that isn’t “stacking”, that’s investing using fiat values.
The definition of the Stacker that has been given here and elsewhere is counting in oz not in $$$.
Selling the PMs requires being tied to fiat.
Putting digital PMs in investment accounts requires being tied to fiat.
Creating any kind of reportable PM transaction requires being tied to fiat.
Stackers claim to not be tied to fiat. IF that isn’t true then the entire claimed mindset/practice of stacking isn’t true based on what it would take to get the PMs into our current or any other financial system/process.
I’m not philosophically invested in it either way because quite honestly I think things will flip to nearly completely digital rather than in favor of PMs. There has already been too much movement towards a digital system to prevent it though it might be on a slower timeline than when it was first hypothesized.
The “legal tender” rules and mandated process being exposed in the states that have created laws on the subjest proves how problematic the assumptions being made on stacking PMs for common transaction purposes.
West
Senior
Great Northwet
Veteran Member
Eventually you too will start stacking.
Power of suggestion, and just kidding.
Great Northwet
Veteran Member
Mostly responding to Kathy in fl, but everyone else too; Buying or selling PM's is more like a farmers market than a bank.
A couple years ago I went to my bank and withdrew $4k to buy a 100 Silver Brittania's. It took 20 minutes because they had to verify my identity, check my ss#, get approval from the manager, etc. I closed my account over that and only use credit unions now because they don't ask questions.
I have another wonderful 20+ year relationship with 2-coin shops where a transaction either buying/selling takes 2 minutes and they don't even know my name.
So, another good thing about holding pm's is that you can hop in and out of the fiat system at will and anonymous.
A couple years ago I went to my bank and withdrew $4k to buy a 100 Silver Brittania's. It took 20 minutes because they had to verify my identity, check my ss#, get approval from the manager, etc. I closed my account over that and only use credit unions now because they don't ask questions.
I have another wonderful 20+ year relationship with 2-coin shops where a transaction either buying/selling takes 2 minutes and they don't even know my name.
So, another good thing about holding pm's is that you can hop in and out of the fiat system at will and anonymous.
Eventually you too will start stacking.
Power of suggestion, and just kidding.
I have what I consider a sufficient amount already. Rarely think about it beyond it being a lazy investment. No profit acquired unless I sell it for fiat. Since I don’t need it, it just sits there continuing to be lazy like a piece of jewelry I don’t wear. It has intrinsic value but little else for my purposes.
West
Senior
So you must have your body weight in silver and as much gold that you can at least swim with across a good size river.
Thats most stackers size. Size does matter.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
One of the most important attributes of metal in your possession is no counterparty risk. In a world rushing headlong into insolvency followed by bankruptcy many if not most people just in paper are going to lose it all. What good is a contract that cannot perform? In the months and years ahead we are going to find out. Many depending on bond, pension and promises made for income are simply not going to get it as the money isn’t there and in the event of insolvency there are senior creditors ahead of you. (The great taking). Gold and silver in your possession is your insurance policy that will be there for you when other things aren’t.
Tristan
TB Fanatic
Hognutz
TB Fanatic
I’m seeing more and more of this tonight/evening. Makes me glad zi got metal…
View: https://twitter.com/imbreckworsham/status/2035825875506131351?s=61
The stock market is getting ready to collapse. Insiders are selling everything off at bottom out prices.
The one thing you can never say is that you were never told.
View: https://twitter.com/imbreckworsham/status/2035825875506131351?s=61
The stock market is getting ready to collapse. Insiders are selling everything off at bottom out prices.
The one thing you can never say is that you were never told.
Swampdweller
Veteran Member
Reminds me of when my very prim and proper aunt told my mom that she never farted. Mom said you must be full of sh*t then.Either you have a warehouse or you don't **** much.
So you must have your body weight in silver and as much gold that you can at least swim with across a good size river.
Thats most stackers size. Size does matter.
Since I'm not a stacker the measurement doesn't matter beyond that I have sufficient for my purposes and plans.
Yeah, I've heard this countless times. Corrections happen.
There have been dozens of economic collapses over the previous 100+ years. Thus far all any of them have proven to be are opportunities. Back during the 2007 collapse we more than doubled our real estate portfolio. You can live in fear or you can live in preparation to take advantage of opportunities. Up to you.
1911user
Veteran Member
Gold is at $4350 and silver at $65. Both are trending down tonight for anyone that may be interested.
Link to previously posted charts: CORP/BIZ - Silver and Gold...The General Precious Metals Thread
Link to previously posted charts: CORP/BIZ - Silver and Gold...The General Precious Metals Thread
Stop looking for an echo chamber Sam. Or go post on a different forum dedicated to PMs. You flame or troll me or any other member again on this thread and you can get locked out the same as anyone else.
Yeah, GLD is well off its 52-week high as well. I know people that are hyperventilating over the drops in both physical and digital. One in particular I know is in a near panic. They did the stupid and got caught when they bought at what turned out to be the high and really screwed the pooch with being able to afford the spread that is occurring.
Too much panic buying and now everyone seems to be switching to oil/gas. I don't know if I could call this a collapse in PMs, but it certainly isn't stabilizing. Not everyone can absorb the losses.
von Koehler
Has No Life - Lives on TB
The first rule of trading is only to use the money you can afford to lose. Never go into debt to finance a position.
Second rule is cut your losses quickly when you are on the wrong side. Better to take a small loss right away before it gets even bigger.
Third rule is never, ever average down your losses.
The market is willing to teach you, but the tuition is so damn expensive.
Second rule is cut your losses quickly when you are on the wrong side. Better to take a small loss right away before it gets even bigger.
Third rule is never, ever average down your losses.
The market is willing to teach you, but the tuition is so damn expensive.
Absolutely.