Hfcomms
EN66iq
RT 8 min
Really no synapsis as the title explains it. Pretty grim.
ECON Shocking money stats of the ‘average’ person
- Thread starter Hfcomms
- Start date
RT 8 min
Really no synapsis as the title explains it. Pretty grim.
Nice, but I could have read his stats in 2 minutes or less. Not going to spend 8.5.
I don't really need to. If you are out of debt, own the roof over your head, have food on the table, and an adequate emergency fund for your lifestyle, you are doing better than about 80% of the population.
I don't really need to. If you are out of debt, own the roof over your head, have food on the table, and an adequate emergency fund for your lifestyle, you are doing better than about 80% of the population.
King Samson
I'm Here
King Samson
I'm Here
I just listened to the whole video. Nothing new to me, I've known those stats for quite a while. Unfortunately, the far majority of the population will ignore those stats. Which is why like 74% of people live paycheck to paycheck.
But, the dude points out, more than anything else, people have a SPENDING issue more than a income issue. And in both of those situations, it's EASY to cut spending (if you want), it's also easy to bump up your income (if you want)...
But people need the WILL to do it, and for the majority of the population.... they DON'T.
But, the dude points out, more than anything else, people have a SPENDING issue more than a income issue. And in both of those situations, it's EASY to cut spending (if you want), it's also easy to bump up your income (if you want)...
But people need the WILL to do it, and for the majority of the population.... they DON'T.
Blacknarwhal
Three-Time Trump Voter
This guy has been walking and shrieking doom about the economy for years. Same kind of thing as IAllegedly and Jonathan Babe. He's clearly going for the "I'll be right someday" angle.
King Samson
I'm Here
Actually, his numbers are accurate. Problem is, the majority of the population could care less about them... why is why so many are in DEEP debt.
They're too busy ordering cheap China crap from Amazon and ordering Door Dash... and crying about "affordability".
Hfcomms
EN66iq
You know as well as I do (probably better than I do) that the DXY measures the dollar against other fiat currencies. We are better off than the others but that doesn’t mean we aren’t inflating the dollar away. The Federal Reserve Education Department is at least honest in this statistic.
By the government’s own statistics there is less than 3.8 cents of purchasing power left in the dollar from the inception of the Fed. And to keep it even more simple also according to the FDIC the average interest rate paid on savings accounts is .39% APR while the government’s latest reported inflation rate (sic) is 2.4% so even leaving your savings in the bank your principal is inflating away.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
He isn’t wrong, you really can’t argue against the points he is making as far as nominal savings and debt load of most consumers.
King Samson
I'm Here
Can we PLEASE stop with that false narrative. I've shown, OVER and OVER, the purchasing power of the average Joe Six Pack has kept up with inflation, regarding wages. Why do you ALWAYS ignore the wage side of the equation?
Another poor example. People can easily open a High Yield savings account, and make between 3% and 4% on their money today, with zero effort. Or even move their savings to a CD paying the same.
Foxen
Contributing Member
The problem isn't spending, It's what they are spending it on and motivation for doing so. I disagree with simply saying "get out of debt/stay out of debt". Use debt to accumulate assets, (Asset= something that will provide income to you directly). Your "main home" is not an asset, it will always be a liability. We are not teaching people how to use money properly.
Poor mindset = get into debt to buy a trailer and have it sit in their garage while only being able to make the minimum payment (paying 4.5x the value of the trailer)
Middleclass mindset = work a good job to pay for the trailer and use it all the time
Wealthy mindset = use debt to buy a trailer, then rent/lease the trailer out to pay off the loan. Buy another and set up an LLC for tax passthrough.
Until we teach people to be entrepreneurs and not send them to school to be workers, we will always have this problem.
Poor mindset = get into debt to buy a trailer and have it sit in their garage while only being able to make the minimum payment (paying 4.5x the value of the trailer)
Middleclass mindset = work a good job to pay for the trailer and use it all the time
Wealthy mindset = use debt to buy a trailer, then rent/lease the trailer out to pay off the loan. Buy another and set up an LLC for tax passthrough.
Until we teach people to be entrepreneurs and not send them to school to be workers, we will always have this problem.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
I don’t ignore it. But I live in the real world (not sure what one you live in). I’ll just give one example but I could rattle over 10 of them off the top of my head.
In 1970 a single wage earner (male) averaged about $9800 a year. A family of four on that wage could afford a mid sized home of about 1500 square feet (and nice car) and that home sold for between $22,000 and $24,000 or about 2.5x annual income.
With me so far? Arguments? O.K.
In 2026 the median home price is $423,000 while the median income is $83,000 or 5.09x annual income…more than doubled. So with two wage earners working instead of one we are back to 2.5x annual income but add to that the additional tax and insurance burden on the home not to mention medical and automotive insurance compared to 1970, etc.
Wages for most people simply are not keeping up except for the top 10% of wage earners and especially the top 1%. If you are in that group and by your demeanor while you have been here I take it you are, if you rubbed elbows with others outside your small circle you might be a tad surprised.
Masterchief117
I'm all about the doom
Guess, the big question is WHY do prices keep going up and thus income having to keep up? What is the root cause of this?
Every generation has challenges and each generation has to adjust to survive. There is a book about the Depression that is titled something like 'we had everything except money'. Worth reading. Instead of looking at all you do not have and cannot afford, look at how people in prior generations lived. You have a roof over your head and food on your table and you're ahead of probably half the world.
How many people today are willing to make major sacrifices in order to save for a home. How many are willing to buy an older home or do they need all the latest and greatest? How many are willing to buy a used vehicle and drive it until it won't go anymore? How many are willing to buy their clothing at thrift shops? How many are willing to have a minimal wardrobe, minimal household furnishings (purchased used), how many are willing to stop eating out, stop buying the latest and greatest cell phones, gaming consoles? How many are willing to tell their children that they can only participate in one extra circular activity and to say no to demands outside of their budget? Actually, how many even have a budget??
How many people today are willing to make major sacrifices in order to save for a home. How many are willing to buy an older home or do they need all the latest and greatest? How many are willing to buy a used vehicle and drive it until it won't go anymore? How many are willing to buy their clothing at thrift shops? How many are willing to have a minimal wardrobe, minimal household furnishings (purchased used), how many are willing to stop eating out, stop buying the latest and greatest cell phones, gaming consoles? How many are willing to tell their children that they can only participate in one extra circular activity and to say no to demands outside of their budget? Actually, how many even have a budget??
John Green
Veteran Member
We have people right here who do the same thing.
John Green
Veteran Member
The real problem is that most Americans are financially illiterate.
I'm the same way. Payed off the house a few years ago, have a decent paying job that I work hard at, buy used vehicles, and mostly wear knock off 80/90's clothing. Granted I got a few luxuries, I don't go out of my way to keep up with the Jones'.
I think the best way I save money is by taking care of what I got, fix what I got and if I can't justify it, don't buy it.
Can't get over what people spend money on and what they deem is "essential".
I guess my standard is living is way lower than most. But who am I?
King Samson
I'm Here
First, the square feet of houses has grown, from your 1500 sq ft. to an average of 2400 sq ft., so there's a big influence to your home price.
Second, people buy "payments" and not "houses". House prices doubled since Covid, because interest rates dropped to almost nothing. So, the payment was affordable for a higher priced house.
Third, qualifying for a mortgage, as a percentage of monthly income, has risen quite a bit, from 28% to over 40%, so this also had an effect on housing prices, as people can afford more house.
So, your house example isn't indicative to the "real" economy, due to other influences.
Now, go do bread, milk, gas, and other everyday staples as a comparison to wages for that time period.
Tristan
TB Fanatic
I'm the same way. Payed off the house a few years ago, have a decent paying job that I work hard at, buy used vehicles, and mostly wear knock off 80/90's clothing. Granted I got a few luxuries, I don't go out of my way to keep up with the Jones'.
I think the best way I save money is by taking care of what I got, fix what I got and if I can't justify it, don't buy it.
Can't get over what people spend money on and what they deem is "essential".
I guess my standard is living is way lower than most. But who am I?
I'd say your standard of Living is actually way higher than many or most.
King Samson
I'm Here
Maybe it's the opposite. Maybe wages went up first, then businesses were forced to raise prices, so they could keep their doors open, due to the higher costs to the business.
King Samson
I'm Here
I've lived on BOTH sides of that situation. Had tough times and good times. Guess what, I prefer the good times, and did everything in my power to get there. And I'm a nobody, Joe Six Pack, so if I can get to that level, anyone can. But it takes work and effort, that MOST people don't want to do.
And your wages narrative, you're making me post economic facts again, regarding wages, to show that narrative isn't true. This is what matters to the bulk of the population:
1974 in my area, a McD's cheeseburger was 35 cents and minimum wage was $1.75 an hour, so you could buy 5 cheeseburgers for a hour of wages.
2025, a cheeseburger is around $3.00 and minimum wage is $15.00 an hour, so 50 years later, you can still buy 5 cheeseburgers for the same hour of wages.
1974 Ground beef, $1 a pound, minimum wage $1.75 an hour, so 1.75 lbs for an hour of work.
2025 Ground beef, $6.90 a pound, minimum wage $15.00 an hour, so 2 lbs for an hour of work.
1974 gas was .39 cents a gallon, minimum wage $1.75 per hour, so 4.4 gallons for one hour of wages.
2025 gas was $3.00 a gallon, minimum wage $15.00 per hour, so 5 gallons for one hour of wages.
1974 White bread, .33 cents a loaf, minimum wage $1.75 per hour, so 5 loaves for a hour of work
2025 White bread, $2.00 a loaf, minimum wage $15.00 per hour, so 7 loaves for a hour of work.
1974 Dozen eggs, .66 cents a dozen, minimum wage $1.75, so 2.7 dozen for an hour of work.
2025 Dozen eggs $2.50 a dozen, minimum wage $15.00, so 6 dozen for an hour of work.
1974 Gallon of milk, $1.40 a gallon, minimum wage $1.75, so a little over a gallon for an hour of work.
2025 Gallon of milk, $4.00 a gallon, minimum wage $15.00, so 3.75 gallons for an hour of work.
But some will still say, "see the cheeseburger went from 35 cents to $3.00, so the dollar lost all that purchasing power". As shown above, it ignores the other side of the equation concerning wage growth. If people were still making 1974 wages, then they would have a point… but they’re not.
JMG91
Veteran Member
The problem is what job you're in. When DH and I got married, he made somewhere in the 20,000s-range, and we scraped by--that was during the first Trump administration--and now, he's make almost $35,000 more a year, and we're struggling more than we did before. The Biden administration wiped out our savings--thank God we had them--and we're working to become more self-sufficient. That requires money. There are more factors involved than just wages and inflation, but they certainly don't help.
JMG91
Veteran Member
I think the problem is what you're coming up with as far as minimum wage goes. The minimum wage in my state is still $7.25, the same it was before I became a stay at home mom almost 10 years ago. It hasn't gone up in that time, and eight-something is pretty common for the average low-wage jobs.
Zardoz
Veteran Member
Because of Piss Poor Public Education.
hiwall
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I agree but schools have never taught about money management that I have ever heard about.
I wish they would have taught me
Money makes the world go round is the old saying that has always been true for a hundred years. If money management is so very important why wasn't it ever taught to all high-schoolers?
Money management has one simple rule ... you must spend less than your income. Doesn't matter what income level you're in, the rule is the same. Our high school seniors have a mandatory class teaching basics. It's been a long time since I had kids in school so don't recall details, but the class is still taught.
Money management is mostly common sense which is why so many people are in such desperate straits. A couple weeks ago I saw a shirt that said, "Let's make common sense common again." Common sense says if your budget says you can only spend $100 on groceries, you cannot buy steak.
Through the years I've seen some really awful examples of money management or in some cases money abuse. A friend's father would eat steak while his wife and dd ate hot dogs. He bought fancy hunting clothes and wife wore homemade cotton dresses and called my mom almost in tears so happy he'd purchased her a new pair of shoes. He bought a very expensive shotgun while she was using a wringer washer and had no dryer. A lady filing bankruptcy complaining she didn't have money to feed her children, but when I suggested cancelling cable and cell phone (when cell phones were new and not necessary) she flipped out. I could go on and on.
Today people want and demand instant gratification which buries them in debt.
Money management is mostly common sense which is why so many people are in such desperate straits. A couple weeks ago I saw a shirt that said, "Let's make common sense common again." Common sense says if your budget says you can only spend $100 on groceries, you cannot buy steak.
Through the years I've seen some really awful examples of money management or in some cases money abuse. A friend's father would eat steak while his wife and dd ate hot dogs. He bought fancy hunting clothes and wife wore homemade cotton dresses and called my mom almost in tears so happy he'd purchased her a new pair of shoes. He bought a very expensive shotgun while she was using a wringer washer and had no dryer. A lady filing bankruptcy complaining she didn't have money to feed her children, but when I suggested cancelling cable and cell phone (when cell phones were new and not necessary) she flipped out. I could go on and on.
Today people want and demand instant gratification which buries them in debt.
Masterchief117
I'm all about the doom
I took Consumer Mathematics as a Junior in high school (1987-88). We learned about savings and checking accounts, taxes, interest and loans.I agree but schools have never taught about money management that I have ever heard about.
I wish they would have taught me
Money makes the world go round is the old saying that has always been true for a hundred years. If money management is so very important why wasn't it ever taught to all high-schoolers?
At the school I teach at, they have Financial Literacy as a graduation requirement.
Melodi
Disaster Cat
I think a problem we are seeing both in the US and in Ireland (also the UK) is that people working a full time job, still can't make enough money just to pay the normal bills - rent/mortage, utilities (which today includes at least a basic internet subscription on either phone or a computer), food, basic medical expenses (children and adults can both fall down and break their arms) and over here "school fees" like uniforms or "voluntary" payments for things like computers.
I know from personal experience just how difficult it can be when you are working (or, worse, laid off) and there are 75 applications for every food service job, per a local manager, and you simply can't meet basic expenses. My mother paid my standard-rate phone bill a couple of times because, in 1977, you couldn't get a job without a phone (they wouldn't take your resume). I managed to have the lowest possible electric bill (it was nine dollars a month, I still remember), but I did help keep four or five friends in food during "The Winter You Kept Us All Alive" (per a close friend who died just last year) because I had food stamps and I knew how to cook. If I hadn't had food stamps, I could not have bought food (because nearly all my money was spent on rent), and as it was, I used food stamps mostly for basics and on-sale items (like about-to-expire steak that either went into stew for five people or occasionally put away in the freezer for a birthday or celebration dinner).
When I was laid off the last time, I used my last food stamps (technically illegally) to buy food for my Mom, who then paid my bus fare for a bus ticket to take a job in Denver - I had no children, so I was able to do that.
Things are not always as simple as "Don't spend what you don't have," when what you do have still isn't enough for basic living, especially when you don't even have a car you can move in. This was during a period when we had a family living in the parking lot of one of the restaurants I worked in, who worked (illegally for free) in the place in exchange for not being "turned over" to the authorities for living in their car in the back parking lot. A place I worked in a few months later, had a family with five children asking if we had any food (any food at all) - my manager said, "If any of you report me, I'll lose my job) and went to the "about to expire" food area and gave them all of it and just asked that they sit quietly in the back of the dining area and kept quiet about it. Those kids were hungry and haunted; it reminded me of my Mom's tales of growing up without eating for three days during the Great Depression, which, in the 1970s, was only 30 years earlier.
Sometimes, life doesn't come down to simple formulas...
West
Senior
What you don't take or consider in your above examples is the actual all in cost of the employer to keep the employee on the payroll.
At least acknowledge that the overhead cost in labor(percentage wise) is twice at minimum today that is was even just 50 years ago.
That is a huge tax on the employees! And you don't take that into account. When I say tax, I mean less jobs and less pay!
My father died ar 72. His last S.S check he had almost broke even and he retired at 65. We know exactly how much he paid unto the scam system, because we are self employed.
I will have to live to a hundred + before I break even! And now have to retire much later.
Only mention the scam S.S. system because it's a huge problem. But there is many other problems with our fiat system, and eventually it's all gotta crash, when the foundation is built upon faith.
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LoupGarou
Ancient Fuzzball
Which is why at this point, your best bet is to "invest" in something that will hold it's value better than the USD. Right now, the best bet would probably be food staples that last the longest on the shelf...
Or, the other option would be to drop the USD altogether and start a bartering community, especially with all of the entanglements that the USD has at the moment...
Weimar, here we go...
West
Senior
Muse....
A small smelter, PMs testing equipment. Acids and a home made grinder. And the knowledge to use the equipment.
I just got my first 8 grams of gold/PMs off on a bunch of old cell phones and computer boards that I reclaimed some if not most of the PMs out of. Not even close to breaking even. Heck, I lost a lot more than I've potentially made. Unless gold goes to $10k plus. Still not including my time.
But I got a 8 gram nugget thats at least 14k with other PMs mixed in. Learning for me is by doing.
Smelting placer gold fines, I've done with great success. The last time I did that was years ago, but it assay at 22k and thats a great success.
A small smelter, PMs testing equipment. Acids and a home made grinder. And the knowledge to use the equipment.
I just got my first 8 grams of gold/PMs off on a bunch of old cell phones and computer boards that I reclaimed some if not most of the PMs out of. Not even close to breaking even. Heck, I lost a lot more than I've potentially made. Unless gold goes to $10k plus. Still not including my time.
But I got a 8 gram nugget thats at least 14k with other PMs mixed in. Learning for me is by doing.
Smelting placer gold fines, I've done with great success. The last time I did that was years ago, but it assay at 22k and thats a great success.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
Absolutely. The detractors have said you can’t eat gold and they are 100% correct. People that stack metal do it for different reasons and many have a different understanding of their role.
Many of us have said this hundreds of times but before you get serious about a metal stash you have to first prep in every other area. Having metal but not having a deep pantry, water, shelter, energy, heating, tools, freedom sticks and the metals they eat is fruitless.
We tend to talk more about metal than those other things but that is because we have already secured those other things. For me the metals are not an investment but simply my savings account instead of leaving it in the bank to slowly or swiftly inflated away.
I’d much rather have a lot of storage food instead of metal if I had to choose between the two.
Plain Jane
Just Plain Jane
Through my years of teaching highschool I always had a Family Finance unit. Budgets based on median salaries, using financial calculators to determine future values of savings, mortgages, car loans. In the late '90s PA had a large number of personal bankruptcies.
At the next meeting of Home EC teachers at the Intermediate Unit we were handed a curriculum for Family Finance. It was a great resource and I could upgrade what I had been doing.
The year that I retired (2011) the Commonwealth had changed it's tune. Just the task of identifying budget categories had as a grade, write a poem describing your feelings about the budget categories.
I haven't seen anything about PA getting back to sanity yet but I that they do.
At the next meeting of Home EC teachers at the Intermediate Unit we were handed a curriculum for Family Finance. It was a great resource and I could upgrade what I had been doing.
The year that I retired (2011) the Commonwealth had changed it's tune. Just the task of identifying budget categories had as a grade, write a poem describing your feelings about the budget categories.
I haven't seen anything about PA getting back to sanity yet but I that they do.
King Samson
I'm Here
LOL... that has nothing to do with my comment and post above. I was responding to the comment about Purchasing Power narrative, that gets beat, on and on, and my example shows that the dollar STILL buys the same number of products, then and now.
But, congratulations on getting your payroll tax rant inserted in EVERY thread you post in. At least, you're consistent.
West
Senior
Okay so you disagree that the purchasing power of a dollar for people's payrolls are the same as before. Because people's wages have gone up with inflation?
Ambros
Veteran Member
I have a few thousand in savings. But I still have debt on my farms and my house plus a few other home upgrade loans I've taken out. I think I'll be able to have everything paid off in 5 years. I don't think the excess money will be put into savings, instead I intend to just buy more farm land...maybe a corvette too...but more farm land
von Koehler
** In Timeout **
Speaking of ground beef, Walmart raised the price of my favorite brand from $5 to $6 overnight!
Jez
Veteran Member
I'm going to disagree with the ease of bumping up your income being easy. Not everyone is as smart, talented, or blessed as many on this board are. Before I exited the workforce for health issues I had been out of work for over a year. The last job I held was a low paying job because I needed something, but I took a huge paycut. The job market in my area was saturated with too many bodies and not enough jobs and moving was not an option.