ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread

I've been a subscriber to this channel for a while. Millenium 7, specializing on in-depth coverage relating to cutting edge aerospace concepts and developments. As normal during the course of new developments, there's a lag time required for the sorting of facts, conjecture, and speculation.

This video presents some important views in relationship to the new weapons platform Russia unveiled during this last week.

RT 24:58

===
.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
But, you can see the missile going up. Did they reverse the footage, or something?
That I can't answer.

SB said it was up, and then it was gone, and she asked why. Cuz I didn't get to see it, and the poster said found out it was a hoax and what it actually was.

So for any info on the picture you would have to ask, who put it up and took it down, I think was Vector 7.
 
More on Missile strike:

Saturday, November 23, 2024

Testimonies.


From people of Dnepropetrovsk. Yuzhmash is no more, it simply ceased to exist after the visit of Oreshnik. It used to be a colossal plant which had its own bus routes. There is nothing left there, only dust. People are in shock. Apartment blocks in the vicinity of what used to be Yuzhmash are cracked. Here where it was, it was designed to continue to operate even in the nuclear war and nukes going off nearby.


SBU classified any information about the event. The whole city was feeling the event as a strong earthquake. People point out that Yuzhmash was attacked before--Kalibrs would fly in, destroy parts or whole shops and start fires here and there on the territory of the plant. Now it is just gone, including underground facilities ... This is a signal, indeed--Russia doesn't need nukes to wipe out anything. Medvedev didn't bluff when stated that Russia may unleash the weapon of a power world hasn't seen before. Here it is.

Now, French, obviously, need to be taught where their place in pecking order is--it is that of an abandoned chihuahua on the "death row" in the pound before being put to sleep. I am sure there are plenty of French targets which need to be recipients of latest Russian "technologies". There is nothing left to save in France anyway.


Posted by smoothiex12 at 1:32 PM
====

bitchute video of oral recounting: RT 3:48

====
snip from simplicius last essay: Thunderbolt from the Skies: Putin's Doomsday Weapon Puts NATO on Final Notice

In the video we see the arrival of warheads at a speed of 5-7 km/s from another area of Dnepropetrovsk.

Pics 6 and 7(video):

Video of arrivals with what appear to be small-calibre secondary detonations.

The impact area at the Yuzhny Machine-Building Plant, believed to be where NATO vehicles, especially Rheinmetall ones, were being repaired.

The use of such a missile to directly attack and kill Western engineers on Ukrainian territory would reinforce the deterrent message.

The arrival of a 100kg object at 7000m/s is a force of 2.45×10^9 Joules.

At these speeds you don't really need a conventional chemical explosion to destroy a building.

Especially taking into account the number of arrivals of 30, which, judging by the low dispersion of each ‘salvo’, has a fairly high precision.
end snip


====
snip of comment from smoothies post

B
Blackring 4 hours ago edited
Here's a possible explanation for lack of visible fireballs at the points of impact.

A hypersonic warhead traveling at 3000m/s has >10 times more energy than military grade explosive of the same weight. The effect is similar to being shot by the high speed bullet. Small entry wound, large exit wound and havoc in between from the shrapnel and shockwave. Even worse, if there is no exit, all energy is consumed by the internal structure. But that is not all.

Explosive radiates energy in 3D space. Like a ball. Bullet energy is distributed in a cone like shape. Another at least 10 times concentration. Or 100 times, depending on the bullet's construction. The cone can be made very thin and long, like in the case of cumulative charge. At 3000m/s anything start to behave like cumulative charge (7000-9000m/s). Lack of speed is compensated by the mass of the "bullet", which could be in the range of 50-100kg.

Another parameter is the area of the impact. Likely ~20-30 cm in the diameter. That's a very small area for the equivalent of tons of TNT to release all its energy linearly in one direction. Nothing can resist such power. The "bullet" will pass through tens of meters of any armor, concrete, whatever, then release energy in the cavities below. Very little flash, almost all shockwave. The depth of the final expansion depends on construction of the individual bullet. Some can be tungsten coated, some soft, some of depleted uranium. Or mix of all, for thorough destruction of all underground floors. A direct impact without such cavities would likely produce a vertical column of fire, smoke, and debris from the entry holes due to the energy release. This aligns with observed behaviors in impacts on solid or compact structures.

Which brings us to the last point. Poor Yuzhmash didn't eat a single bullet, it was struck by a celestial shotgun. Earth-shattering shotgun. The rhythm of the individual "pellets" impacts seems like they are deliberately delayed by the certain amount of time, so the earthquake effect is increased by the interference.

This dark engineering marvel should finally squeeze into the thick skulls of the Western oligarchy the gravity of the situation they brought upon themselves by marching on the Moscow (again).

====

Possible the oral accounts are accurate?

===
.
 

Abert

Veteran Member
Interesting that this guest was on Fox today - Fox News' Sunday Morning Futures with Maria Bartiromo.
These shows pre-interview and select guests that push views they agree with - normally Maria has interviewed War Hawks
Erik Prince is no anti-war dove - yet he is calling out that this is not only over - but current escalation needs to end - "needs to be brought to an end by adults." - Looks like this new Russian missile has had some effect.
NewsWeek - so naturally some SPIN but Eric makes his points.

'No Chance' Ukraine Gets Back Russia-Annexed Lands—Blackwater Founder​


During his Sunday appearance on Fox News, Prince blamed President Joe Biden for exacerbating the situation, calling the decision "grossly irresponsible" as Biden is set to leave office in January.

"It's like a drowning man grabbing at any rope that might be available to him, thinking that it might somehow push the Russians to play nicer or something," he said.

Prince added: "The fact is, the Russians fired a ballistic missile. They carried nine warheads, going Mach 9, that there is no means to shoot down, and even with non-nuclear [weapons], the kinetic force is enormous, and those could have just as easily—it was a reminder by the Russians. We can smack you anywhere with nukes, and maybe that's what's coming next. So, this is not a game that needs to be played any longer."
 

blueinterceptor

Veteran Member
The one thing we all found out, is that we (NATO) had better step up our game. The videos from that missle strike looked like something out of a sci-fi movie. It should be copyrighted as producers will look to use that footage to simulate an alien invasion or attack. Independence Day 3, the aliens revenge.
If you had said we were being invaded by aliens, I would have semi believed you.
 

rob0126

Veteran Member
More on Missile strike:

Saturday, November 23, 2024

Testimonies.


From people of Dnepropetrovsk. Yuzhmash is no more, it simply ceased to exist after the visit of Oreshnik. It used to be a colossal plant which had its own bus routes. There is nothing left there, only dust. People are in shock. Apartment blocks in the vicinity of what used to be Yuzhmash are cracked. Here where it was, it was designed to continue to operate even in the nuclear war and nukes going off nearby.


SBU classified any information about the event. The whole city was feeling the event as a strong earthquake. People point out that Yuzhmash was attacked before--Kalibrs would fly in, destroy parts or whole shops and start fires here and there on the territory of the plant. Now it is just gone, including underground facilities ... This is a signal, indeed--Russia doesn't need nukes to wipe out anything. Medvedev didn't bluff when stated that Russia may unleash the weapon of a power world hasn't seen before. Here it is.

Now, French, obviously, need to be taught where their place in pecking order is--it is that of an abandoned chihuahua on the "death row" in the pound before being put to sleep. I am sure there are plenty of French targets which need to be recipients of latest Russian "technologies". There is nothing left to save in France anyway.


Posted by smoothiex12 at 1:32 PM
====

bitchute video of oral recounting: RT 3:48

====
snip from simplicius last essay: Thunderbolt from the Skies: Putin's Doomsday Weapon Puts NATO on Final Notice

In the video we see the arrival of warheads at a speed of 5-7 km/s from another area of Dnepropetrovsk.

Pics 6 and 7(video):

Video of arrivals with what appear to be small-calibre secondary detonations.

The impact area at the Yuzhny Machine-Building Plant, believed to be where NATO vehicles, especially Rheinmetall ones, were being repaired.

The use of such a missile to directly attack and kill Western engineers on Ukrainian territory would reinforce the deterrent message.

The arrival of a 100kg object at 7000m/s is a force of 2.45×10^9 Joules.

At these speeds you don't really need a conventional chemical explosion to destroy a building.

Especially taking into account the number of arrivals of 30, which, judging by the low dispersion of each ‘salvo’, has a fairly high precision.
end snip


====
snip of comment from smoothies post

B
Blackring 4 hours ago edited
Here's a possible explanation for lack of visible fireballs at the points of impact.

A hypersonic warhead traveling at 3000m/s has >10 times more energy than military grade explosive of the same weight. The effect is similar to being shot by the high speed bullet. Small entry wound, large exit wound and havoc in between from the shrapnel and shockwave. Even worse, if there is no exit, all energy is consumed by the internal structure. But that is not all.

Explosive radiates energy in 3D space. Like a ball. Bullet energy is distributed in a cone like shape. Another at least 10 times concentration. Or 100 times, depending on the bullet's construction. The cone can be made very thin and long, like in the case of cumulative charge. At 3000m/s anything start to behave like cumulative charge (7000-9000m/s). Lack of speed is compensated by the mass of the "bullet", which could be in the range of 50-100kg.

Another parameter is the area of the impact. Likely ~20-30 cm in the diameter. That's a very small area for the equivalent of tons of TNT to release all its energy linearly in one direction. Nothing can resist such power. The "bullet" will pass through tens of meters of any armor, concrete, whatever, then release energy in the cavities below. Very little flash, almost all shockwave. The depth of the final expansion depends on construction of the individual bullet. Some can be tungsten coated, some soft, some of depleted uranium. Or mix of all, for thorough destruction of all underground floors. A direct impact without such cavities would likely produce a vertical column of fire, smoke, and debris from the entry holes due to the energy release. This aligns with observed behaviors in impacts on solid or compact structures.

Which brings us to the last point. Poor Yuzhmash didn't eat a single bullet, it was struck by a celestial shotgun. Earth-shattering shotgun. The rhythm of the individual "pellets" impacts seems like they are deliberately delayed by the certain amount of time, so the earthquake effect is increased by the interference.

This dark engineering marvel should finally squeeze into the thick skulls of the Western oligarchy the gravity of the situation they brought upon themselves by marching on the Moscow (again).

====

Possible the oral accounts are accurate?

===
.

Wow.

Maybe after the NATO commanders change there underwear, they can call off the foolishness.
 

Abert

Veteran Member
The one thing we all found out, is that we (NATO) had better step up our game. The videos from that missle strike looked like something out of a sci-fi movie. It should be copyrighted as producers will look to use that footage to simulate an alien invasion or attack. Independence Day 3, the aliens revenge.
If you had said we were being invaded by aliens, I would have semi believed you.
About as near to SF as we have seen - not quite orbital bombardment - something credited to Jerry Pournelle, who developed the idea back in the 50's of kinetic orbital bombardment with metal rods (during his side career as engineer at Boeing)

The concept has been refereed to as Project Thor, also known as "Rods from God" a hypothetical weapons system that involves launching tungsten rods from space to strike targets on Earth.

While not launched from orbit and smaller than the original design it appears to have been very effective.
It will likely be sometime before we get any specifics - but this is without question something new.
 
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wait-n-see

Veteran Member

Frontline Russian Snipers Engage In Ukraine War Battle Training​

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjDIrJaaa_g

Run time - 49:01
Nov 25, 2024

Inside the Ukraine War Zone with Russian Snipers, Espanola Brigade & Unfiltered Perspectives

Join Patrick Lancaster as he takes you deep into the Russia-Ukraine conflict zone, showcasing what Western mainstream media won’t. In this gripping report, we follow the Russian Espanola Brigade, including volunteer snipers, as they train near Donetsk. Discover their perspectives, tactics, and motivations in a way rarely seen.
 

Abert

Veteran Member
Likely nothing new / major is going to take place till after the emergency NATO meeting Tuesday - as Alastair Crooke comments in this video (30 min) - This is a thunderbolt, it's checkmate that Putin has done... with a conventional, non-nuclear weapon [Oreshnik] that no-one can shoot down... Changes the whole Escalatory paradigm...
NATO has few options open - short of a total WW3 -
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_0KHWZyPao
 

Abert

Veteran Member
One has to wonder about the logic - or lack of - in this

"This is a new discussion within NATO, and I am glad that we have changed our stance on this and on the idea that we are a defensive alliance that will sit and wait to be attacked before responding. It is more prudent not to wait but to strike Russian launchers if Russia attacks us."
Not clear how a RESPONSE to a Russian attack is somehow preemptive?
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
---------------------
S2 Underground
@s2_underground
//The Wire//2300Z November 25, 2024//
//ROUTINE//
//BLUF: TENSIONS REMAIN HIGH THROUGHOUT EUROPE, NATO STATEMENTS RAISE CONCERNS.//
-----BEGIN TEARLINE-----
-International Events-

Europe: Tensions remain high throughout the continent as the diplomatic situation with regards to Russia continues to deteriorate. Germany has reportedly begun the process of examining the potential to use underground metro stations as air raid shelters in the event of war, continuing the trend throughout most European nations to reignite wartime planning efforts.

A few days ago, many American legacy media outlets (mainly the New York Times) reported that the White House has considered giving Ukraine nuclear weapons as a means to dissuade Russia from using nuclear weapons on the battlefield.

-----END TEARLINE-----
Analyst Comments: If the claims of discussions to arm Ukraine with nuclear weapons are even remotely true, and not met with an outright and immediate denial by the White House, serious escalations could be upcoming. Granted, an opinion piece by the New York Times is hardly an accurate indicator of anything at all, but due to the Biden regime’s constant reliance on floating ideas unofficially through the press to test the waters, unfortunately the “unnamed officials” constantly quoted by all legacy media must be paid attention to, to some degree. Especially when exceptionally preposterous ideas that are outside the bounds of normalcy come about.

Taking the idea itself out of the equation, the simple insinuation of such is exceptionally dangerous, even when shrouded in journalism. Russia would not hesitate to deploy strategic forces in a posturing role just to face-down a rumor such as this. Merely admitting to even discussing giving Ukraine nuclear weapons would be an exceptionally grave escalation at a time where both the White House is either incapable or unwilling to see the impact of their actions, but also Russia being unable to convey the seriousness of the situation to the West. Both sides simply believing the other will back down, even when both sides have proven they won’t, usually results in very serious escalations on the international stage.

This morning one of NATO’s more senior officials, Admiral Rob Bauer (Netherlands), made headlines with his statements urging businesses throughout Europe to “be prepared for a wartime scenario”. Of course, anytime a high-ranking NATO official issues such statements, concern is distributed by legacy media. Ideas like this have been amplified following Russia’s use of an IRBM in combat, along with many NATO members increasing their Civil Defense efforts.

However, the most interesting facet of Adm. Bauer’s statements come from the context of what he was speaking about: he was mostly speaking in terms of sabotage, cyberattacks, and energy needs. Even more specifically, he was voicing concerns regarding Russia’s growing relationship with China, and that relying on a China-centric logistical enterprise may not be the best idea for business owners. He was not speaking in reference to the recent developments in Ukraine, but rather the logistical problems that will arise as Europe attempts to continue a continent-wide war…while keeping things less-kinetic than an open conflict, but also without actually admitting they are more-or-less in a state of war already.

Perhaps as a way of balancing out the very serious escalations being undertaken throughout Europe, most of the negative statements and atmospherics throughout continent are purely posturing attempts by NATO to remain relevant as political regime change is carried out in the United States (and potentially in the United Kingdom via growing inklings of a general election). Russian posturing efforts remain motivated largely by their strategic goals in Ukraine, and waiting for the Trump regime to take office. The Biden regime knows this, and probably is taking the opportunity to sew as much chaos as possible before Inauguration Day. However, the lengths that both powers will go to in order to project power during a time of global instability is rather concerning nonetheless.

Analyst: S2A1
//END REPORT//

View: https://twitter.com/s2_underground/status/1861187325868322931
 

Jez

Veteran Member
Isn't part of this whole mess based on us promising to come to Ukraine's aid against Russia if they gave up their Nukes? They did and we.... uhh... Of course then Ukraine picks a fight with Russia and Isn't this how WW I got started?
 

Walrus

Veteran Member
Likely nothing new / major is going to take place till after the emergency NATO meeting Tuesday - as Alastair Crooke comments in this video (30 min) - This is a thunderbolt, it's checkmate that Putin has done... with a conventional, non-nuclear weapon [Oreshnik] that no-one can shoot down... Changes the whole Escalatory paradigm...
NATO has few options open - short of a total WW3 -
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_0KHWZyPao
Alistair Crooke = awesome sauce. According to yalensis at Awful Avalanche, Oreshnik translates best into English as "hazelnut". Ok, works for me, as if I care.

One real interesting thing is the warhead system on this hypersonic IRBM (Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile). I've heard several different commentators talk about this attack as a new type of explosive and I think that's completely bollocks.

The Oreshnik missile in its present configuration (and going into production immediately) is MIRVed - that is, a Multiple Independently Ranged Vehicle or something like that. Just like the US and Russian ICBMs, there are several independently targeted warhead systems riding aboard each rocket. The Oreshnik, however, can be loaded with nuclear-tipped MIRVs but its present configuration is a kinetic system which uses terminal velocity (>Mach 10) as its de facto destructive energy.

As I understand it, it's the old Einsteinian E=mcsquared, which generally means that the strike energy is increased by the square of the velocity for a given mass. And the mass of these MIRVs is a bunch of tungsten carbide rods. These can be seen on the Oreshnik attack last week. So there's essentially no explosion with a kinetic strike but incredible destruction due to the speed of the projectiles in each MIRV.
 

Walrus

Veteran Member
Isn't part of this whole mess based on us promising to come to Ukraine's aid against Russia if they gave up their Nukes? They did and we.... uhh... Of course then Ukraine picks a fight with Russia and Isn't this how WW I got started?
Ukraine did indeed possess Russian (old Soviet, actually) nukes in their country but they never did possess the launch codes. So when they "gave them up to the Russians", it was essentially stems and seeds - not complete systems with launch authorities. The Ukies conveniently forget to include this fact when they talk about "their" nukes.
 
Last edited:

wait-n-see

Veteran Member

West Panics Russia Advances; Macron Starmer Mull Troops Ukraine; Trump Wants Deescalation​

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4XQC6OmBO0&t=8s

Run time - 1:18:39
Nov 25, 2024

00:07 Western leaders struggle with the ongoing Ukraine crisis amid global tensions.
03:11 Discussion on missile systems' effectiveness and production complexities.
09:37 Western powers face challenges in supporting Ukraine amid military limitations.
12:44 Criticism of military intervention plans by unpopular governments in Ukraine.
19:22 Rising tensions and economic woes impact British and French troop deployments in Ukraine.
22:16 France faces political turmoil with potential government resignations and new elections.
28:05 Europe's reckless response risks escalating conflict with Russia amid Ukraine crisis.
30:55 Concerns over British and European actions influencing future US relations under Trump.
36:26 Trump's peace efforts hindered by UK and US actions on Ukraine.
39:17 Political ignorance impacts military strategy in the Ukrainian conflict.
44:45 The West struggles with the political will to provide sufficient military support to Ukraine.
47:36 Western reluctance grows for military support to Ukraine amidst political backlash.
53:02 Russia seeks direct negotiations with Ukraine, rejecting wider talks with the West.
55:50 Challenges in persuading Russia lead to potential escalation in Ukraine.
1:01:37 U.S. military support for Ukraine risks exposure against China.
1:04:20 Western capitals panic over potential Ukrainian defense collapse amidst Russian advances.
1:10:16 Russian forces make significant advances, threatening Ukrainian defenses in Kurakov region.
1:13:03 Russian forces are rapidly advancing, threatening Ukrainian supply lines.
1:18:21 A cheerful note amidst significant geopolitical discussions.

Crafted by Merlin AI.
 

Abert

Veteran Member
Isn't part of this whole mess based on us promising to come to Ukraine's aid against Russia if they gave up their Nukes? They did and we.... uhh... Of course then Ukraine picks a fight with Russia and Isn't this how WW I got started?
This urban legend needs to end !!
Ukraine never had their own - under their operational control - Nukes!

The Soviet Union had nukes based in the Ukraine area - under 100% Moscow control
Just as we have nukes in Germany - 100% under US control.
Or we have nukes in some states in the US - NOT under state control - but DC.

Also all this "talk" of giving Ukraine Nukes ???? Never going to happen.
 

Abert

Veteran Member
---------------------
S2 Underground
@s2_underground
//The Wire//2300Z November 25, 2024//
//ROUTINE//
//BLUF: TENSIONS REMAIN HIGH THROUGHOUT EUROPE, NATO STATEMENTS RAISE CONCERNS.//
-----BEGIN TEARLINE-----
-International Events-

Europe: Tensions remain high throughout the continent as the diplomatic situation with regards to Russia continues to deteriorate. Germany has reportedly begun the process of examining the potential to use underground metro stations as air raid shelters in the event of war, continuing the trend throughout most European nations to reignite wartime planning efforts.

A few days ago, many American legacy media outlets (mainly the New York Times) reported that the White House has considered giving Ukraine nuclear weapons as a means to dissuade Russia from using nuclear weapons on the battlefield.

-----END TEARLINE-----
Analyst Comments: If the claims of discussions to arm Ukraine with nuclear weapons are even remotely true, and not met with an outright and immediate denial by the White House, serious escalations could be upcoming. Granted, an opinion piece by the New York Times is hardly an accurate indicator of anything at all, but due to the Biden regime’s constant reliance on floating ideas unofficially through the press to test the waters, unfortunately the “unnamed officials” constantly quoted by all legacy media must be paid attention to, to some degree. Especially when exceptionally preposterous ideas that are outside the bounds of normalcy come about.

Taking the idea itself out of the equation, the simple insinuation of such is exceptionally dangerous, even when shrouded in journalism. Russia would not hesitate to deploy strategic forces in a posturing role just to face-down a rumor such as this. Merely admitting to even discussing giving Ukraine nuclear weapons would be an exceptionally grave escalation at a time where both the White House is either incapable or unwilling to see the impact of their actions, but also Russia being unable to convey the seriousness of the situation to the West. Both sides simply believing the other will back down, even when both sides have proven they won’t, usually results in very serious escalations on the international stage.

This morning one of NATO’s more senior officials, Admiral Rob Bauer (Netherlands), made headlines with his statements urging businesses throughout Europe to “be prepared for a wartime scenario”. Of course, anytime a high-ranking NATO official issues such statements, concern is distributed by legacy media. Ideas like this have been amplified following Russia’s use of an IRBM in combat, along with many NATO members increasing their Civil Defense efforts.

However, the most interesting facet of Adm. Bauer’s statements come from the context of what he was speaking about: he was mostly speaking in terms of sabotage, cyberattacks, and energy needs. Even more specifically, he was voicing concerns regarding Russia’s growing relationship with China, and that relying on a China-centric logistical enterprise may not be the best idea for business owners. He was not speaking in reference to the recent developments in Ukraine, but rather the logistical problems that will arise as Europe attempts to continue a continent-wide war…while keeping things less-kinetic than an open conflict, but also without actually admitting they are more-or-less in a state of war already.

Perhaps as a way of balancing out the very serious escalations being undertaken throughout Europe, most of the negative statements and atmospherics throughout continent are purely posturing attempts by NATO to remain relevant as political regime change is carried out in the United States (and potentially in the United Kingdom via growing inklings of a general election). Russian posturing efforts remain motivated largely by their strategic goals in Ukraine, and waiting for the Trump regime to take office. The Biden regime knows this, and probably is taking the opportunity to sew as much chaos as possible before Inauguration Day. However, the lengths that both powers will go to in order to project power during a time of global instability is rather concerning nonetheless.

Analyst: S2A1
//END REPORT//

View: https://twitter.com/s2_underground/status/1861187325868322931
The way things are going - we will be lucky to make it to Jan 20th.

The US (Deep State / NeoCons) want to push this conflict up to - a knifes edge - of a full blown WW3 to put Trump in a bind and FORCE him to continue.

Ukraine and Europe need the US directly in the conflict - men and air power. Once US troops and equipment are directly in conflict with Russia - there would be no way for Trump to back out - giving up to Russia would not be politically possible.

The problem (for us little people) is that given the Nuclear positions - of both the US and Russia - for the last 50+ years - once things start going sideways - the Nukes will 100% come into play.

NATO has their Emergency Meeting Tuesday - likely a statement after - but whatever plans they make will likely take a week or so to put in place. There is no such thing as a "limited" NATO engagement - if any take direct military action they will be at war with Russia. And if the US joins the damage unlike WW1&2 will not be just in Europe

In a week or so it should be clear what path they are taking - they will be down to only a few weeks to act - things will be going fast.
 

Abert

Veteran Member
Alistair Crooke = awesome sauce. According to yalensis at Awful Avalanche, Oreshnik translates best into English as "hazelnut". Ok, works for me, as if I care.

One real interesting thing is the warhead system on this hypersonic IRBM (Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile). I've heard several different commentators talk about this attack as a new type of explosive and I think that's completely bollocks.

The Oreshnik missile in its present configuration (and going into production immediately) is MIRVed - that is, a Multiple Independently Ranged Vehicle or something like that. Just like the US and Russian ICBMs, there are several independently targeted warhead systems riding aboard each rocket. The Oreshnik, however, can be loaded with nuclear-tipped MIRVs but its present configuration is a kinetic system which uses terminal velocity (>Mach 10) as its de facto destructive energy.

As I understand it, it's the old Einsteinian E=mcsquared, which generally means that the strike energy is increased by the square of the velocity for a given mass. And the mass of these MIRVs is a bunch of tungsten carbide rods. These can be seen on the Oreshnik attack last week. So there's essentially no explosion with a kinetic strike but incredible destruction due to the speed of the projectiles in each MIRV.
Walrus -
Just a minor correction - the E=M x C(speed of light) ^2 is related to turning matter into energy - NUKES.
For a kinetic weapon like this the KE=1/2 Mass x Velocity^2
So you are correct in that the energy goes up with the square of the velocity. This is a factor anyone who does serous shooting is well aware of - higher velocity - MUCH bigger energy transfer. Gets to the debate of heavy and slow (45 APC at 800f/s) or more exotic rounds with less mass but velocity such as the .220 Swift, which can reach velocities exceeding 4,000 feet per second

What is unique about this weapon is that while the MIRV warhead is nothing new - been standard on ICBM's for decades - it is the replacing of the nukes with (best guess) Tungsten penetrators - 1.7x the density of lead and a melting point of over 6,000 F. These penetrators going Mach 10 or 11,250 Feet / sec are designed to punch through whatever is below them - this plant has (had) several underground shops - likely no longer.

The other interesting factor was that each of the 6 primary MIRV's opened up and discharged 6 penetrators for a total of 36. It is unlikely we will ever get any information on the damage done - 100% blackout - but that NATO had to call an Emergency meeting only a few day after indicates they noticed.

In many ways this is much more effective than a low yeald tatical nuke - first NO BAD PR - but it is capable of taking out supply depots - air fields - C&C centers (ever see the ALL GLASS NATO HQ?) and the iceing on the cake - no existing AD system can take it out. - Putin commented they currently have around 200. Should NATO go HOT with Russia - Russia has the ability to strike NATO in Europe HARD - with conventional weapons - would NATO then need to go NUKE??

Russia keeps saying - are you sure you want to do this dance??

Should know in a few weeks.
 
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blueinterceptor

Veteran Member
America should drop all resistance to Russia's rightful claims and cede Alaska back.

The alternative is to risk a nuclear war against Russia's superior weapons.
Alaska is part of the United States and thus NATO. Nobody there speaks Russian and last I heard, wants to be part of Russis. Ukraine is its own entity. Not part of NATO. If the EU wish to fight Russia Over Crimea. More power to them. But not with America’s sons and daughters. And not with unlimited US taxpayer resources. If Europe wants to fight with Russia over the territorial sovereignty of the Ukraine, good for them too but not with Americas sons and daughters. They are welcome to use the sub par gross domestic product contributions they made to NATO for their defense or offense.
The UK is threatening sending troops yet they are making significant reductions in their military. They can start a draft Of their own sons and daughters.
 
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Abert

Veteran Member
America should drop all resistance to Russia's rightful claims and cede Alaska back.

The alternative is to risk a nuclear war against Russia's superior weapons.
They should take a vote in Alaska - would be interesting in how the vote would come out.

We have two camps - one wants to distroy Russia - even if it results in ALL life on earth being distroyed - but on the possitive side - no more Russia - a tradeoff they are willing to make.

The other camp would like to be around for Chrismass next year - sit down and resolve the problems - yes Russia would likey still be around - but so would the rest of us.
 

Cedar Lake

Connecticut Yankee
\
We have two camps, one wants to destroy Russia. even if it results in ALL life on earth being destroyed. But on the positive side. no more Russia - a tradeoff they are willing to make.
A tradeoff they are willing to make...........?

What is really driving these arrogant people?
From Old Time Europe.
Thee same old bunch, Britain, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Poland, the Nordics
What do they really want?
Resource poor Arrogant Europe.

There is something mentally disturbing going on with Europe's representatives coming out with Russia's attacking us.
Where is Russia attacking Europe?
What is driving their rush to war?
Defending NATO's Eastern Flank, Poland & the 3 Baltic nations from Russian invasion, attack, etc. Blah, Blah, blah.
So where's the Russian army at?
Russian armies in Belarus? Don't see it, don't hear it. Maybe a division, (10,000) at best

NATO finally came out of the closet, and admits/said that it is no longer ''A Defensive Alliance''. Now a offensive alliance.
Attack Russia first, strategy strikes, blah, blahh.
Or any other nation....now.
Wonder what the 87% of the RoW thinks of this?
Does NATO's vaunted Article 5 apply when attacking a foreign nation?
 

naegling62

Veteran Member
\

A tradeoff they are willing to make...........?

What is really driving these arrogant people?
From Old Time Europe.
Thee same old bunch, Britain, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Poland, the Nordics
What do they really want?
Resource poor Arrogant Europe.

There is something mentally disturbing going on with Europe's representatives coming out with Russia's attacking us.
Where is Russia attacking Europe?
What is driving their rush to war?
Defending NATO's Eastern Flank, Poland & the 3 Baltic nations from Russian invasion, attack, etc. Blah, Blah, blah.
So where's the Russian army at?
Russian armies in Belarus? Don't see it, don't hear it. Maybe a division, (10,000) at best

NATO finally came out of the closet, and admits/said that it is no longer ''A Defensive Alliance''. Now a offensive alliance.
Attack Russia first, strategy strikes, blah, blahh.
Or any other nation....now.
Wonder what the 87% of the RoW thinks of this?
Does NATO's vaunted Article 5 apply when attacking a foreign nation?
Finishing WWII seems to be the agenda.
 

mecoastie

Veteran Member
This urban legend needs to end !!
Ukraine never had their own - under their operational control - Nukes!

The Soviet Union had nukes based in the Ukraine area - under 100% Moscow control
Just as we have nukes in Germany - 100% under US control.
Or we have nukes in some states in the US - NOT under state control - but DC.

Also all this "talk" of giving Ukraine Nukes ???? Never going to happen.
This!!! Thank you.
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
Alaska is part of the United States and thus NATO. Nobody there speaks Russian and last I heard, wants to be part of Russis. Ukraine is its own entity. Not part of NATO. If the EU wish to fight Russia Over Crimea. More power to them. But not with America’s sons and daughters. And not with unlimited US taxpayer resources. If Europe wants to fight with Russia over the territorial sovereignty of the Ukraine, good for them too but not with Americas sons and daughters. They are welcome to use the sub par gross domestic product contributions they made to NATO for their defense or offense.
The UK is threatening sending troops yet they are making significant reductions in their military. They can start a draft Of their own sons and daughters.
Agreed

There is no compelling U.S. national interest in Ukraine.

It's not even a clear NATO interest because no NATO country has been attacked. NATO is a self -defense- treaty organization that does not include Ukraine.

At the same time, this is another case of Russian expansionism as a guise to reclaim former Communist territory.

Let the EU fight this one by themselves.
 
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