Really bad back pain...

[VesperSparrow]

So my bleeding heart doc can't get me in till June 16the...that's after my begging him to see me sooner..can't go to the ER or Doc-in-a-box...
Doc won't even refill my Neurontin or Lortab till next NEXT month....

I've had the injections in the back....that was a 600 dollar joke each time...

So what do I do?
Tried the heat. Tried the cold.
Ate 6 BC powders and 3 big motrins. NO relief.
Lie here in agony?
I don't want to clean the house.
I don't want to work.
This is the most depressing thing I've ever been through. How can they expect us to work and hurt like this?

I'd go buy the stuff off the street if I knew I woudn't go to jail.
Or end up dead in an alley.

What can one do for severe sciatica with numbing foot pain and back pain so damned bad you'd rather be having a baby?

 

[ceeblue]

dup

 

[ceeblue]

different doctors
live at the ER, what are they going to do? arrest you?
different doctors
go to an ER in another town
different doctors

don't talk to your doctors about anything personal

only talk to them about your medical problems

 

[summerthyme]

I'm so sorry, VS. BTDT and it's horrible. Why can't you go to the ER? If you're having numbness in your foot, you've got enough pressure on the spinal cord to cause permanent nerve damage.

Can you get your hands on some marijuana? I've heard it can be quite useful for sciatic type pain... I didn't have access to any when I was in such agony before my surgery, but if I could have found any then, believe me, I would have tried it. It can be used in tincture form, rather than smoked if you don't like the idea of smoking. I KNOW you can get it in any small town, if you happen to know any high school kids. In our state, the cops have been told to ignore possession... if you're not running around with many ounces of the stuff and baggies, etc (IOW, looking like a big time dealer) they don't even care.

But for God's sake, don't OD on the aspirin and motrin- you'll wreck your kidneys and be in even worse trouble!

I wish I could help...

Summerthyme

 

[LC]

Not knowing the root cause of your sciatic pain I hesitate here, but have you tried a competent chiropractor. Keeping my lower back and hips in proper alignment make my sciatic problems much better. I wish you all the best.


LC

 

[Hopeful]

My friend had really bad sciatica and tried the basic doctor/medicine route with no luck. Finally did acupuncture and went from being flat on her back and a very high pain level to feeling much better with only feeling a twinge now and then. She went 2-3 times a week and backed off from there for a total of 5-6 weeks. She is highly recommending it. Her insurance a good portion of it.

I tried it about 10 yrs ago for neck/arm pain I was having and it worked very well. The only thing was, the chiropractor who did the acupuncture also continued to crack my neck and my disc eventually ruptured. If I knew then what I know now, I would have only done the acupuncture but at the time, I was pretty clueless to all of it.

 

[geoffs]

I'm not familiar with sciatica but having had two herniated disks in my lower back I can say, I feel your pain. One doc wanted to do surgery so I went for a "second opinion" and had three steriod shots a few years ago, so far I'm pretty good. Can you convince your medical insurance you want a second opinion and try another doctor sooner and while you're at it ask him for a pain killer and/or muscle relaxant, just a suggestion. Good luck.

 

[parsonswife]

Dont know if this will help but it sure has been a Godsend for me. I used to have my back go out 2-3 times each year with spending 1000's of dollars at the chiro and reg MD. Finally a physical therapist showed me that 90% of my sciatica problems came from psoas muscles in spasm. These are the muscles that attach on the front side of the thighs and onto the front side of the pelvis. It is one of the main muscles to raise you knee to your chest. when these are in spasm they play tug of war with the ham stings forcing the sciatic to compress. Now I regularly stretch the psoas and abdominal s. Haven't had a sciatic episode in 7 years. I also with use a Thera Cane massager to palpitate the psoas under the intestines

 

[rugmaker]

Have you tried reflexology?

 

[colonel holman]

Dr. of PT specializing in spine problems (published international lecturer on this topic). Sciatica is not a specific diagnosis as it is caused by several very different problems, each of which is handled very differently. It may be a bulging-heriated disc pushing on nerve root. This is treated with McKenzie stretches (standing backbends or lying on belly propped up on elbows, then later upgraded to pressing up on hands to extend lower back). Or... a degenerated (dried out and shrunken) disc causing a collapse between adjacent vertebrae, squeezing nerve root, producing the same symptoms. This is one common form of spinal stenosis. But this is treated with flexion stretches (knees curled to chest). Or it can be a slip of the sacoiliac joint (where pelvis connects to base of spine, just above the buttock toward the spine). This is treated with curing one knee (bad side) to chest with other leg flat. Finally, a spasm of the piriformis muscle can squeeze the sciatic nerve. This is the muscle underneath the buttock muscle (spasm deep in the buttock). This is treated by stretching the piriformis until it lets go its spasm (seated, ankle of the bad side placed on top of the other knee... then pull the knee of the bad side toward the opposite shoulder as you turn your chest toward the bad side. That is a quick summary. The bottom line is to seek out a PT who is McKenzie-trained, a specialized training specifically on this topic. Go to yellow pages under physical therapists, call and ask who owns the clinic. If it is owned by the PT, that PT is likely highly experienced and successful. If the clinic is owned by a MD, hospital system, or health corporation... their staff is usually less experienced and often told to over-treat patients to generate revenues, rather than committed to highest quality treatment efforts.

But be aware that sometimes the disc is just too far herniated to be sucked back in with mckenzie stretches, or the collapse of degenerated discs has caused too much spinal stenosis for any stretches to help. In these cases, there is too much structural damage and surgery is the only answer. That becomes a reality for some. However, several versions of back surgery have become very non-invasive, done through a scope, with the patient up and walking about in a few hours... a piece of cake compared to the horror stories you will soon hear. If it comes to that, it is not the end of the world. Outcomes are usually very good. Fusion, however, is another story. Stay away from that. not good.

 

[summerthyme]

Colonel Holman... thanks again for a balanced, sensible reply!! While I agree completely about spinal fusion, even when I had a laminectomy (disk removal through an open incision) 26 years ago, the difference in my pain levels *when I got out of surgery* were so amazing that I'd do it again under those circumstances in a heartbeat.

I went from constant, 24/7 agony (imagine the "funny bone" feeling when you hit your elbow, going down one or both legs pretty much every minute of the day, no matter what position you're in) to a fairly mild, localized incision pain... which was manageable with ibuprofen within 3 days. I was fortunate... the severe nerve compression which had me with a totally numb foot and half my left leg, and was causing problems with bladder control, resolved almost completely. I was left with two numb toes (interestingly, the two they amputated 10 years later when I had the MRSA bone infection in that foot- don't tell me God doesn't have a sense of humor!) and a severely contracted Achilles tendon which took about 5 months to stretch out.

Is back surgery overused? Certainly. But if you've done all the therapy, traction, anti inflammatories and everything else, and you still have severe compression on the spinal cord from a herniated disk, it can literally give you your life back.

Summerthyme

 

[Conrad Nimikos]

...Don't know if this will help you but it helped me. Bought online some DMSO and used it yesterday on my back and knees. Today I can walk almost normally. Not hunched over. Going to apply more today.

 

[BigFootsCousin]

Dr. of PT specializing in spine problems (published international lecturer on this topic). Sciatica is not a specific diagnosis as it is caused by several very different problems, each of which is handled very differently. It may be a bulging-heriated disc pushing on nerve root. This is treated with McKenzie stretches (standing backbends or lying on belly propped up on elbows, then later upgraded to pressing up on hands to extend lower back). Or... a degenerated (dried out and shrunken) disc causing a collapse between adjacent vertebrae, squeezing nerve root, producing the same symptoms. This is one common form of spinal stenosis. But this is treated with flexion stretches (knees curled to chest). Or it can be a slip of the sacoiliac joint (where pelvis connects to base of spine, just above the buttock toward the spine). This is treated with curing one knee (bad side) to chest with other leg flat. Finally, a spasm of the piriformis muscle can squeeze the sciatic nerve. This is the muscle underneath the buttock muscle (spasm deep in the buttock). This is treated by stretching the piriformis until it lets go its spasm (seated, ankle of the bad side placed on top of the other knee... then pull the knee of the bad side toward the opposite shoulder as you turn your chest toward the bad side. That is a quick summary. The bottom line is to seek out a PT who is McKenzie-trained, a specialized training specifically on this topic. Go to yellow pages under physical therapists, call and ask who owns the clinic. If it is owned by the PT, that PT is likely highly experienced and successful. If the clinic is owned by a MD, hospital system, or health corporation... their staff is usually less experienced and often told to over-treat patients to generate revenues, rather than committed to highest quality treatment efforts.

But be aware that sometimes the disc is just too far herniated to be sucked back in with mckenzie stretches, or the collapse of degenerated discs has caused too much spinal stenosis for any stretches to help. In these cases, there is too much structural damage and surgery is the only answer. That becomes a reality for some. However, several versions of back surgery have become very non-invasive, done through a scope, with the patient up and walking about in a few hours... a piece of cake compared to the horror stories you will soon hear. If it comes to that, it is not the end of the world. Outcomes are usually very good. Fusion, however, is another story. Stay away from that. not good.

I sure wish that we could 'Sticky' this post to the top so that people coming into this forum can see it years from now. This is helpful information, it shouldn't get 'lost' just because it drops to the bottom of the page.

BFC

 

[NC Susan]

.. Bought online some DMSO and used it yesterday on my back and knees. Today I can walk almost normally. Not hunched over. Going to apply more today.

interesting stuff.
my son in law thought he was being scalded by boiling oil..... horrible for him.
i tried it.........nothing..........nothing at all.......... no effects
and my sister swears by it. thinks its the only thing that keeps her functioning and pain free.

this is one medicine that effects each individual differently

 

[Grammytomany]

DMSO can be purchased from a Vet??? I'm not sure, but it is worth a phone call. God Bless you and I hope you get relief soon!~!!

 

[Conrad Nimikos]

..I ordered my DMSO on the internet. Search around for prices.

 

[Grammytomany]

Hi Conrad, just thinking about you lately and wondering how you are doing? Hopefully a lot better with DMSO until you get to your Doc. Back pain (Kidney pain too can be totally dibilitating(sp?). I spent some time crawling on the floor trying to get relief. I just cannot imagine how you are feeling without something to help you. God Bless.

 

[Conrad Nimikos]

Hi Grammy, Shortly after this thread was started I had my back pain morph into a sciatic nerve problem and I was on the floor screaming. Emergency room was no help. Went to a chiropractor with a little relief. Then my wife found another chiropractor who specialized in sciatic nerve problems. Seems he had had them and that was why he studied to become a chiropractor. I have to go to him as often as I can afford the co-pay but I do get relief.

DMSO has its uses but it is not for nerve pain. Hey, at almost 70 I am just glad I am in as good health as I am.

 

[Grammytomany]

Try putting the offending leg up high on the back of a couch for at least a half an hour at a time for the sciatica. It will be a BIG help, tho it will not cure it. Here is hoping you get great relief with your Doc. We had a wonderful one but he has since retired too.

 

[Conrad Nimikos]

thanks! I'll do that !

 

[Firedawg]

Anybody that knows anything about me knows that back pain and I have a very special relationship. I've taken steroid shots, I've had surgery, I've suffered through radio frequency ablation, I've sucked it up and downed Motrin, I've done hot/cold treatments... I've done all of it. However, this is strictly my opinion, the biggest crock of crap ever was the physical therapy. Why is it that a PT thinks everything can be cured through stretching. When a guy my size is crying during his weekly PT session, something is wrong. I won't go back to PT... ever. I'll cry in private versus going back. You won't hear me badmouth too many folks, but I wouldn't pee on a PT if he/she was on fire.

 

[summerthyme]

Firedawg- as odd as it may seem to someone who has severe spinal nerve problems, somewhere around 95% of "back pain" DOES resolve itself (with or without any professional help) and PT *CAN* really be useful in stretching out tight muscles which *aggravate the original problem*.

However, you clearly were in the 5%- or likely, the 1% which needed surgery. It sounds like unfortunately, you weren't in the group which got perfect relief from surgery. I was... I had a laminectomy (after papain injections made things MUCH worse) when I was 25- I'd herniated two disks badly while carrying twin calves back from the woods when I was 2 months pregnant. I fully understand the screaming in pain thing... sciatic nerve pain is the worst on earth, I think.

But I was very fortunate, and came out of the surgery in less pain than I'd had going in. In fact, most of the "pain" was my foot feeling like someone was pouring boiling oil on it- due to the nerves coming back after over a year of being compressed into deadness.

However, MOST "back pain" (and even most sciatic pain) isn't from herniated disks or even bulging disks- it's from muscles in spasm (and eventually, micro-scarring in those muscles which cause more problems). And, it's aggravated by people living sedentary lives, lifting wrong, sitting wrong, etc. All of which PT CAN help.

(However, it's also true that PT is an easy, cheap way for insurance companies to try to keep putting you off rather than providing actual effective treatment. We don't have health insurance. If we see a doctor, it's only after doing EVERYthing possible at home- including "home PT"- heat, ultrasound, TENS and the appropriate stretching exercises. But it's almost impossible to convince most doctors of that... they have been conditioned to prescribe PT first, because every insurance company I've ever seen requires it.

It's not the PT's fault- you need to be refusing to pee on any insurance company "claim clerk" you ever find on fire!

Summerthyme

 

[kyrsyan]

Arnica rub should help until you can get back to the dr or the base cause is remediated.

I have two bad disks and a split vertebra at the base of my spine. Spent years with problems. At it's worst I couldn't feel half my toes and would often have to freeze in mid motion walking to keep from falling. Which leg was the worst would vary from week to week, sometimes from day to day. I learned different ways of moving and stretching and finally after about 5 years I had a good handle on it.

But some days it just doesn't pay to wake up. On those days I use arnica, externally and internally. For my Dad, the pills don't work but the ointment does. Right now I'm using it on a healing broken toe and another badly bruised toe (looks like a concord grape!). And I'm so glad for it.

 

[colonel holman]

Dr. of PT specializing in spine problems (published international lecturer on this topic). Sciatica is not a specific diagnosis as it is caused by several very different problems, each of which is handled very differently. It may be a bulging-heriated disc pushing on nerve root. This is treated with McKenzie stretches (standing backbends or lying on belly propped up on elbows, then later upgraded to pressing up on hands to extend lower back). Or... a degenerated (dried out and shrunken) disc causing a collapse between adjacent vertebrae, squeezing nerve root, producing the same symptoms. This is one common form of spinal stenosis. But this is treated with flexion stretches (knees curled to chest). Or it can be a slip of the sacoiliac joint (where pelvis connects to base of spine, just above the buttock toward the spine). This is treated with curing one knee (bad side) to chest with other leg flat. Finally, a spasm of the piriformis muscle can squeeze the sciatic nerve. This is the muscle underneath the buttock muscle (spasm deep in the buttock). This is treated by stretching the piriformis until it lets go its spasm (seated, ankle of the bad side placed on top of the other knee... then pull the knee of the bad side toward the opposite shoulder as you turn your chest toward the bad side. That is a quick summary. The bottom line is to seek out a PT who is McKenzie-trained, a specialized training specifically on this topic. Go to yellow pages under physical therapists, call and ask who owns the clinic. If it is owned by the PT, that PT is likely highly experienced and successful. If the clinic is owned by a MD, hospital system, or health corporation... their staff is usually less experienced and often told to over-treat patients to generate revenues, rather than committed to highest quality treatment efforts.

But be aware that sometimes the disc is just too far herniated to be sucked back in with mckenzie stretches, or the collapse of degenerated discs has caused too much spinal stenosis for any stretches to help. In these cases, there is too much structural damage and surgery is the only answer. That becomes a reality for some. However, several versions of back surgery have become very non-invasive, done through a scope, with the patient up and walking about in a few hours... a piece of cake compared to the horror stories you will soon hear. If it comes to that, it is not the end of the world. Outcomes are usually very good. Fusion, however, is another story. Stay away from that. not good.

THIS NEEDS A BUMP. IMPORTANT INFO HERE. ETA... PT THAT CAUSES INCREASED PAIN IS INCORRECT PT. I TEACH GRADUATE COURSES TO DR.'s OF PT HOW TO TREAT BACK PAIN. THE PROCEDURE IS TO IDENTIFY WHICH OF THE SIX CATEGORIES OF BACK PAIN THAT FITS THE PATIENT, BASED ON HOW THE PAIN RESPONDS TO TEST MOVEMENTS, THEN PRESCRIBE THE EXERCISES, MANIPLUATION, TRACTION, WHATEVER THAT FITS THE CATEGORY IDENTIFIED. THIS HAS AN EXTREMELY HIGH SUCCESS RATE IF DONE CORRECTLY. PT THAT CAUSES PAIN IS THE WRONG PT. THERE ARE GOOD PTS AND BAD PTS, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER PROFESSION. NINETY PERCENT OF BACK PAIN DOES RESOLVE EVEN WITHOUT TREATMENT. PT HAS CLEARLY BEEN SHOWN TO SPEED THAT PROCESS UP AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, TEACHES THE PATIENT HOW TO KEEP THE PAIN FROM COMING BACK (EIGHTY PERCENT WILL HAVE A RECURRENCE). BUT THE OTHER TEN PERCENT WILL NEED SURGERY, WHICH THESE DAYS HAS A VERY HIGH SUCCESS RATE FOR THIS CATEGORY OF PATIENT. BUT THE PT CAN SPOT WHO NEEDS THE SURGERY USUALLY BY THE FIRST WEEK OF PT CARE, IF NOT THE FIRST DAY OF PT IN MANY CASES. THEN WE FIGHT WITH THE INSURANCE TO GET THE PATIENT TO SURGERY IN A TIMELY MANNER TO MINIMIZE PERMANENT DAMAGE. THE KEY IS TO FIND AN EXPERIENCED PT WITH MCKENZIE-BASED BACK CARE SPECIAL TRAINNG. THESE PTS ARE USUALLY FOUND IN THEIR OWN PRIATE PRACTICE, NOT INEXPERIENCED PT IN HOSPITAL OR WORKING IN A SURGEONS OFFICE. BUT POORLY TREATED BACK PROBLEMS CAN BECOME A DISASTER DUE TO MISTREATMENT BY BAD PROFESSIONALS OR SIMPLY DUE TO A BACK THAT IS TOO SCREWED UP TO BE FIXED. YES, THOSE DO EXIST.

 

[psychgirl]

I'm looking for something related to this thread; which, if there is one, herb would be a good soak or pain reliever for ALL OVER tissue pain from either Fibromyalgia or Rheumatoid Arth?....something I could mix with Epsom salts if possible.

I'm basically looking for a natural pain relief method to supplement Rx and OTC meds.

I hope you all are feeling better!

 

[summerthyme]

Unfortunately, the only really effective "all over" painkillers are illegal... poppies and cannabis!

However, I make a soak with Epsom salts and essential oils... it's really hard to tell amounts, and I make up 10# at a time, but I use rosemary, wintergreen and cinnamon (cassia) essential oils. I put a bunch of Epsom salts into a gallon ziploc freezer bag, then drop the essential oils (probably no more than 2-3 drops of each oil per POUND of Epsom salts- if you overdo them, especially the cinnamon, it can burn delicate tissues) into the salts. I then use some food coloring and drop in 5-10 drops of blue color (doesn't matter WHAT color you use!). The food coloring just allows me to visually know when the essential oils are fully mixed... if I don't use food coloring, I can end up with "clumps" of essential oil, which could be too strong for a bath.

Hubby swears by this blend for pain, especially during colder weather when he really suffers.

Oh, we use about 1/2 cup per bath...

Summerthyme

 

[psychgirl]

I'll try something like that! What a good idea! I wonder if I could add some nettle oil (if I actually make some) to the bath? I've been readin, a LOT, about all of these herba and some say Nettle is good for arthritic pain....among others like Rosemary.

P.s.: my Calendula are sprouting

 

[summerthyme]

I told you they were easy to grow! LOL!

By all means, try adding some nettle (even an infusion might work). I've been experimenting with various herbs and essential oils for years now... most of my recipes, etc were the results of intuitive leaps and a mad scientist bent!

I would strongly suggest that you get a notebook, (or start a computer file) and write down amounts, etc when you start experimenting. There's little worse than finding something that works really well- and not remembering what was in it! BTDT... I bought a "journal" type book at WalMart a few years back- padded fake leather cover and lined pages. I write PROVEN recipes in it... once I've found a cream or salve or tincture that works well, I write it in that book. I'm hoping that it will become a reference for my kids or others when I'm not here any longer, but in the meantime, it's MY reference and I go back to it quite a bit.

Summerthyme

 

[mala]

I would like to second, third, one thousandth, colonel holman's posts about PT. I was in such bad pain this winter, starting in lower back, radiating to ribs and also causing extreme dizziness when I turned my neck certain ways.

Blessed be the Creator, I was transcribing videos for a living, and in came one on causes of lower back pain taught by a sports trainer. He described several tests (overhead squat, step up and gait). My husband videotaped me doing all three and we analyzed the video. Problem was obvious (dropped left buttock, over pronation of left foot, etc) We searched the internet and found some exercises for relaxing the right hip and strengthening the left. It was like magic how fast it helped the pain. We're still working on correcting it, and I will go see a PT in a month or two when we can afford the visit because this is a pretty complicated subject - well beyond my abilities - but those stretches made such a difference.

So much pain in neck, back, wrists, knees and feet can be traced back to the lumbo-pelvic region and can be greatly aided by retraining/realigning/noninvasive techniques - or at least that's how it's beginning to seem to me. Someone correct me, please, if I'm wrong.

I think seeing a good/knowledgeable PT is miles above seeing a doc, and I would recommend that to anyone.

My 80 year old MIL has severe sciatica. Since she's in CA, she can get medical marijuana. While not irradicating the pain, it has brought it to a tolerable level where she can sleep well.

Jen

 

[VesperSparrow]

ThankYou Summertyme....lovin ya girl for your knowledge of the natural stuff. Any suggestions as to growing those natural and beautiful flowers though? I am speaking of the ones that were featured in the movie, 'The Wizard of Oz'......PM me if you don't mind.....

Unfortunatly....I never was a MaryJane girl.....oh I had my share, don't get me wrong (wink wink) but it just makes me silly or sleepy so although I DO believe it extremely beneficial for ALOT of medical reasons, and I think it should be decriminalized and put in the same bracket as ALCOHOL, it just is not for me.

Its a cryin shame though that what DOES work for MOST people is now considered something shameful because the DEA and alley-addicts are at war with one another.

Love yall. Gotta go as me phone is dying.
Thanks for such good info.
Love love.

 

[Petunia]

Try turmeric (curcumin) + efa/dha + krill. It won't give immediate relief, but it may help. Valerian may help with the muscle spasm that accompanies the pain. Look into this: http://www.lumenphoton.com/

 

[fairbanksb]

I was looking for a place to post this. I was going to post in the corkboard but it is almost totally prayer requests. The I saw these posts on back pain. Have any of you tried an inversion table? I ordered one from Wal-Mart, site to store. It came in today and I brought it home and assembled it. The reason I am posting it here is because the main benefits are supposed to be to relief back pain and sciatica, by decompressing the spine and stretching out and loosening muscles and nerves. I read all the reviews on the different ones on the Wal-Mart website and the most inexpensive ones got great reviews from users and it was a third of the cost of the one on TV. It's called Mr. Teeter or something like that. Anyway the one I bought was $119 and it is a very sturdy construction. I didn't buy it specifically for back pain but there are other supposed benefits. DW has periodic pain from sciatica, and pain in her neck from arthritis, so she will use it too.

 

[colonel holman]

as a PT specializing in back pain, I have seen inversion therapy work well on many people. I now have one in my clinic. Traction creates a mild suction across discs, which in SOME people can pull a bulge back in. It can also restore some of the disc's water content that is lost from years of bending and sitting. It also places a mild stretch to facet joint capsule and ligaments which can ease pain and spasm for some. It is best to ease into it carefully by only tipping back part way, rather than fully inverted, and limit dose to 3-5 minutes. The Teeter appears to be the best model. It does not replace proper stretching to restore adequate hamstring flexibility nor stability exercises that restore strength needed to naturally stabilize the spine. This is so much better than the chiropract ripoff of IDDT, which nothing more than the same traction therapy, except done on a $150k 'computerized' traction device that is severely overdone, overused and overcharged.