ECON Question about selling PMs, looking forward

[Millwright]

And us farmers can just wait for you to starve and take your shit. Why would I trade a chicken or a goat for a hunk of metal?

There will people who understand the intrinsic value of PMs.

You can bet that the wheeler-dealers will. They will probably come out the other side in better shape than most.

When you suddenly need medicine for a child and the dude who has it will only take gold...

You'll be chasing down the cat that wanted to give you Eagles for goats.

And be lucky if he doesn't smell blood in the water.

 

[West]

Most people aren’t going to trade gold PM’s. If you do get a few gold bullion, you won’t be able to use them. In the legal digital system, that’s a red flag. In the black market, any purchases like a used car where you could actually use gold, you’re red flashed when you do the title transfer.

I agree with your premise that they want to go all digital. That's the golden goose for evil socialist paradise.

However you might want to do some research on the handful of states that recognize real coin as our founders wanted.

Here's the law making United States minted bullion legal tender and acceptable currency, in Oklahoma. ..

Oklahoma Affirms Gold and Silver as Legal Tender - The New American

Oklahoma has joined Utah, Texas, and Louisiana in affirming that gold and silver coins are (as they always have been under the Constitution) legal tender. by Bob Adelmann

www.thenewamerican.com

Not that we needed a new law but so it's perfectly clear. I think some states seen this coming years ago and got ahead of it. Think its vary smart to do so.

Not just banks that can be bankers and stack evil, nasty, barbaric and industrial metals

Alas, Babylon is a lot shorter and easier to read. Just as instructive as well.

Most excellent book!

 

[West]

There will people who understand the intrinsic value of PMs.

You can bet that the wheeler-dealers will. They will probably come out the other side in better shape than most.

When you suddenly need medicine for a child and the dude who has it will only take gold...

You'll be chasing down the cat that wanted to give you Eagles for goats.

And be lucky if he doesn't smell blood in the water.

Yeah, all of a sudden a goat aint worth but two bits!

 

[Dozdoats]

And us farmers can just wait for you to starve and take your shit

You really SERIOUSLY need to re-think that. Unless you can support enough good infantry to protect your whole perimeter 24/7.......

 

[West]

And us farmers can just wait for you to starve and take your shit

You really SERIOUSLY need to re-think that. Unless you can support enough good infantry to protect your whole perimeter 24/7.......

I'm thinking there will be some people who will work to protect the perimeter and do a damm good job 24/7. Though they will want more than just room and board. That's slave wages. And digits requires exposure (paper trails, SS#,) huge tax liability and inflation.
The good agents will want real coin.

Just ask the bogeyman. John Wick.

 

[Dystonic]

You're thinking about this from a "TS has not yet HTF" perspective. That skews your PoV. Anything, be it PMs, bullets, cigarettes, one's female children, etc, have exactly as much or as little intrinsic value as both parties bestow upon them. This is true for EVERY transaction in the world, every day, RIGHT NOW.

Let's say you want to buy a barrel of oil. The seller wants $50 in US FRNs. You only have Drachma. The seller doesn't want to take your Drachma. No deal.

Step back and look at the larger picture of COMMERCE. And I strongly suggest reading Atlas Shrugged as soon as you can possibly manage it.

I read it in 2010. That was a long tough read. And also Alas, Babylon as also suggested. And I am thinking after SHTF because if someone said they would trade a gold watch for one of my lambs, no deal.
However, if we are not yet SHTF, best guess on that is 2024 at the latest, that the gov and all legal purchases will be digital by the end of the year. And I do think we will have a black market that will be almost but not entirely barter. I’m guessing silver bullion to replace the $20 and maybe half dollars. Cigs and booze may be used to a lesser extent.
None of us really know the future but gold could easily be declared illegal again. With the coin shortage, all the currently accepted forms of payment like Applepay, and how the gov is already creating money out of thin air, it’s easy to see digital only very soon. I could very well be wrong and I admit that. But six months ago I would have thought you were crazy if you said masks would be mandatory.

 

[biere]

I have not really studied it in depth, but when the jews were being hunted by hitler and they needed to bribe someone gold worked pretty well from the history books I have read.

Portable wealth.

I concur with person who said there are other things that can be bartered or skills to earn food or whatever.

I guess I come from the direction that I still got items I want to buy and have on hand more than some gold coins.

Silver, I consider it cheap enough to not be a big deal to have some around and at the same time if I really looked at a stack of say $200 in silver and thought about it that $200 would do better in food or other preps.

But shiny.

 

[hiwall]

I have not really studied it in depth, but when the jews were being hunted by hitler and they needed to bribe someone gold worked pretty well from the history books I have read.

I cannot remember the name but one economist when asked if people should own gold always says - "Have enough gold on hand to bribe the border guards".

 

[ShadowMan]

Knew a oil platform supply ship captain that was in the Persian Gulf during the Iranian Revolution took place. He just happened to be in an Iranian port with his ship and crew when everything went down. He was told by the harbor master that he couldn't leave port and had a Iranian destroyer parked across from him, with guns locked on his ship and Revolutionary Guards on the wharf. After about a week the destroyer suddenly took off in the early morning and there was only one guard on the dock. He bribed the single guard with several small gold bars and beat feet the hell out of that port. He showed me his money belt that he always carried when working overseas in that part of the world with several different currencies and small gold bars and coins he kept in it. When I met him in the late 80's he still had a price on his head for escaping from Iran.

As the saying goes....Bullshit walks and money talks. If he hadn't been able to bribe the lone guard he would have ended up with those folks taken prisoners from the embassy. Talk about a close call!!

 

[ShadowMan]

Besides PM's which everyone should have some, don't forget valuable essential skills that you might have to trade. For me I'm sure my past military service, combat experience and especially my past medical expertise would be something I could trade. I'm also gathering as much information as I can on growing and utilizing herbal medical alternatives. Everyone needs a Doc, sooner or later.

Make a list of your knowledge base and skill sets. You might be surprised just how valuable you are. Being able to keep things working, produce power, clean water, grow food, etc., etc., etc.

 

[Doc1]

That doesn’t seem to make any sense unless there’s some 29-style severe deflationary event. I’m guessing in a SHTF scenario, a pre-1964 quarter might buy a home on 10 acres with a productive well and fat farm animals

I've studied these things since I was a kid and your math is a little off. Throughout most of history, a man's (hard) day labor was worth (roughly) a tenth of an ounce of silver. In the 19th Century, a really dangerous job - like a hard rock miner during a boom time - could bring one silver dollar per day, but that was hardly average. Obviously, educated professionals like doctors and lawyers could make more. Teachers, who were mostly women, made much less, as did domestics. Your idea of trading a pre-64 silver quarter for a home on ten acres, with a home, a well and fat animals would equate - again, roughly - to buying that property for 2.5 days of average labor costs. In any century that would be waaaay off.

I will note that in the distant past, in some places and at some times, silver was actually worth more than gold! In terms of usual historical precedent, gold has been worth eight to sixteen times more than silver. Currently it's worth close to a hundred times more, which is a historical anamoly and flies in the face of what comes out of the ground!

Silver will doubtlessly do a Moon shot in the future, but not - IMHO - enough to buy you a house on ten acres for two or three silver dimes.

Best
Doc

 

[West]

I've studied these things since I was a kid and your math is a little off. Throughout most of history, a man's (hard) day labor was worth (roughly) a tenth of an ounce of silver. In the 19th Century, a really dangerous job - like a hard rock miner during a boom time - could bring one silver dollar per day, but that was hardly average. Obviously, educated professionals like doctors and lawyers could make more. Teachers, who were mostly women, made much less, as did domestics. Your idea of trading a pre-64 silver quarter for a home on ten acres, with a home, a well and fat animals would equate - again, roughly - to buying that property for 2.5 days of average labor costs. In any century that would be waaaay off.

I will note that in the distant past, in some places and at some times, silver was actually worth more than gold! In terms of usual historical precedent, gold has been worth eight to sixteen times more than silver. Currently it's worth close to a hundred times more, which is a historical anamoly and flies in the face of what comes out of the ground!

Silver will doubtlessly do a Moon shot in the future, but not - IMHO - enough to buy you a house on ten acres for two or three silver dimes.

Best
Doc

Dang it! Guess I'll sell my three silver dimes, and buy a lotto ticket.

 

[biere]

The above boat guy is a perfect use for gold in my opinion.

Someone walking by wanting to trade me for some food and he has say some 22lr ammo and a piece of what he says is silver.

I don't know how to test if it is actually silver, would be getting out the reloading scale and weighing it and what not but I don't have access to one of those testers coin shops often have.

22lr, well that is something I can use. The silver, if it is silver, I am going to have to trade for something.

If I travelled and couple legally have x amount of gold on me, I would certainly do so. If you can't do a gold coin or whatever this is where rolex or something else might come into play.

 

[abby normal]

So I'm up against a wall and have to sell some PMs. Advice please:

I have a variety of silver: some pre 1964 coins, some silver flake, a tube of what looks like little silver bbs, and some other oddball silver (small bars) I've collected over the years. I also have some fresh new silver eagles straight from apmex. Which of these would you sell first? TYIA!

 

[coalcracker]

I would sell the least recognizable stuff first (thinking of future barter scenarios). I'd rank silver dimes, quarters, half dollars as best to keep, closely followed by silver dollars.

I would definitely sell any numismatic coins first (Carson City mint marks and such). Then I'd sell all the commemorative rounds (your oddball silver) followed by silver bars next.

Then come the Silver Eagles.

Last would be the silver currency coins (if I were selling).

Blessings to you, Abby. Your kids have a great mom. Keep looking up.

 

[abby normal]

Thanks, coalcracker! And blessings right back to you!

Follow up question:

I have a good assortment of silver plus one lonely gold 1oz coin.

I am hesitant to sell the gold because it's all I have, but I'm also reading that silver would be more practical to hold for when everything goes TU.

Appreciate the advice!

Should I sell the gold or the silver?

 

[KFhunter]

You’ll find people hold vastly different opinions. Here’s mine:

I am not an “investor” in PMs. My little stash is specifically if things go sideways.

If things go sideways, you’ll be using PMs for barter, not payment per se. (“I need 200 rds of ammo.” “That will be 3 ounces of silver.”) If things go sideways, paper money would be worthless.

I consider silver to be for barter, and gold to be for “save your life” bribes.

Under no conditions would I consider PMs to be a “return on investment” vehicle. And people who do are looking at it wrong.

JMHO

Perhaps ammo is the better investment in this scenario, not that it matters now.

Gold and Silver are easier to acquire now.

 

[KFhunter]

And us farmers can just wait for you to starve and take your shit

You really SERIOUSLY need to re-think that. Unless you can support enough good infantry to protect your whole perimeter 24/7.......

Ayup - my trade itemz will be food.

"I need xxx, here's a qt jar of yummy soup"

 

[Dozdoats]

I have a variety of silver: some pre 1964 coins, some silver flake, a tube of what looks like little silver bbs, and some other oddball silver (small bars) I've collected over the years. I also have some fresh new silver eagles straight from apmex. Which of these would you sell first? TYIA!

I'd hold the pre-64 US silver and the legal tender US Eagles as long as possible and sell the oddball stuff first if I were you.

The tube of silver shot may be what the Treasury was issuing at the end of redemption for silver certificates when the available silver dollars ran out about 1968 or so, if that is the case the tube should have a label to that effect. At this point it may have more novelty value than metal value.

I sold my last one ounce US gold eagle not long ago, I still have my pre-33 US gold and my fractional eagles but that is it for me for gold. IMO it will concentrate too much value in the future to be practical in one ounce increments.

I feel the same way about silver eagles for that matter but at least they are legal tender.

Good luck with the process! HTH!

 

[Terrwyn]

In my younger outlaw years I found that Asian small business owners will take goods of all kinds in trade for whatever.
As will the Jamaican communities and the Iranian gas station owners etc. Of course it is dangerous but just saying its out there if you know where to look and have the guts to do it. And you will definitely come out the loser as far as value goes.
In the old days they were called fences. Who knows what they call them this century. Just be guaranteed they are out there.
What I am trying to say and of course I would be called a rascist is that these foreigners have a different value system than most Americans. They pay no attention to our laws at all and operate under a different set of rules.

 

[coalcracker]

Thanks, coalcracker! And blessings right back to you!

Follow up question:

I have a good assortment of silver plus one lonely gold 1oz coin.

I am hesitant to sell the gold because it's all I have, but I'm also reading that silver would be more practical to hold for when everything goes TU.

Appreciate the advice!

Should I sell the gold or the silver?

Good question.
Trust your heart, your intuition.

There was a point at which I asked myself what the end game would be for the gold I had accumulated. I think that is a very good question to ask.

Investment?
Inheritance to kids?
Future way to pay excessive property taxes?

Dennis mentioned paying bribes.

I decided to convert my gold coins into a property in a better location, and not to wait for the collapse to do so.

The metal itself is a means to an end.

I know too many people who grasp their assets too tightly (I think there may be a bad pun there).

I'm confident that you'll listen to your inner voice and know.

 

[abby normal]

Dupe

 

[abby normal]

My old phone is having a freakout, sorry!

Thanks to everyone for your replies. Lots to think about.