ECON Precious Metals General Discussion (was Gold Up over $30.00 Silver over $30.00) [OP from July 2024]

[Jeff Allen]

I’m not sad to own an ounce of silver, a mutual fund buckets of beans or a tiny 1/10th of gold. Assets all. Diversity seems wise in a troubled world.

At the end of the day we now have all the hallmarks of wealth I dreamed of as a teenager.
1. Pushbutton heat
2. AC (even in cars!!!)
3. Running water in a shower!

J

 

[Southside]

While the other 60% were in equities. Bonds and cash have been returning over 4% recently, and have been relatively safe investment. The equity side has been returning much more.

And the best part, if you want out at any time, it's a click of a mouse to sell, while you sit at home in your PJs. Can you sell gold/silver that easy, and know on the spot, what you'll get for it?


The chart in the article was for the past 30 years. Not sure what you're looking at. Stocks have exceed the average return on gold during that time period. How many people here have been buying gold/silver for longer than that?

I agree, over the past 30. But like any other statistics, it depends on the point you are trying to prove. And MY point, is the last 25 years have been all gold. It does depend on when you get in and out, but my 1,400% return is much better than the DJIA return of 450% over the same 25 year period(2000-current).

 

[Dennis Olson]

Here’s your canary in a coal mine:

 

[King Samson]

Lol.. Of the average amount of gold owners have, it's 6 ounces.

For silver owners, the average amount is less than 50 ounces.

They won't be buying houses, or much else in the future, with those amounts.

And the percentage of people who own any gold or silver is between 10% -11%, so there's a big bunch who don't stack at all, and just trade in those depreciating dollars.

 

[summerthyme]

Lol.. Of the average amount of gold owners have, it's 6 ounces.

For silver owners, the average amount is less than 50 ounces.

They won't be buying houses, or much else in the future, with those amounts.

And the percentage of people who own any gold or silver is between 10% -11%, so there's a big bunch who don't stack at all, and just trade in those depreciating dollars.

Yes, and a huge percentage don't have $500 to use in an emergency. So?

Summerthyme

 

[Hfcomms]

Lol.. Of the average amount of gold owners have, it's 6 ounces.

And the percentage of people who own any gold or silver is between 10% -11%, so there's a big bunch who don't stack at all, and just trade in those depreciating dollars.

While past history is not guaranteed to repeat, during the peak of hyperinflation in Weimer Germany a four bedroom house could be bought in Berlin for $100 U.S. or five one ounce gold coins.

And giving deference to your estimate of silver owners and accepting that as fact would one want to be in that 10% or so when the bottom falls out or not? I see no benefit of being in the majority who are unprepared.

 

[Line Doggie]

I’m not sad to own an ounce of silver, a mutual fund buckets of beans or a tiny 1/10th of gold. Assets all. Diversity seems wise in a troubled world.

At the end of the day we now have all the hallmarks of wealth I dreamed of as a teenager.
1. Pushbutton heat
2. AC (even in cars!!!)
3. Running water in a shower!

J

My wife and I both grew up seriously poor. Missing meals, bathroom at the end of the little path, and the rest of it. I can still remember the first time I took a shower and how shocked I was at the fact that all that water was just running out down the drain.

The middle middle-class life we live today often seems plush to me. Sometimes I think that my wife throws things away just because she enjoys the fact that she can.

Personally, I hope that PM prices going up and real estate going down will cross each other and that we can buy some property farther out. When we bought this house 19 years ago my wife rode her bicycle on the road in front. Now you can't hardly pull out onto it half the time.

 

[West]

Let's deal with reality and past facts please, not hypotheticals or "what ifs". When was the last time the bankers liquidfied said accounts in the last 40 years?

I'll wait....

And in a grid down situation, who you going to offload and sell your gold or silver to?


Did you instantly run out and put gas in your car and buy groceries with your gold/silver?

When have I gotten screwed by the bankers and lawyers?..

Its happened to me twice. Two divorces, and since I was the bread winner, I had to pay for their lawyers as well. That's real salt in the wounds buddy.

Who to trade with after a shtf.... if you are a independent individual and already have many associates (like your self) you do business with already. Its not a problem.

All in good time, the basics one needs a good supply of before the SHTF. No worries to trade PMs for other commodities until some kind of system is established. Rather it be trading moonshine for protection or viagra for some gold... never know, mind you just two of a thousand possibilities.

 

[Greatgrandad]

And the best part, if you want out at any time, it's a click of a mouse to sell, while you sit at home in your PJs. Can you sell gold/silver that easy, and know on the spot, what you'll get for it?

Yes. I online traded on the FOREX for several years. During the 2011 PM spikes, I did rather well using a margin. Took the FRN's and converted those into real metals and other tangibles that I hold/own.

Also, I have sold PM's back to APMEX for daily spot prices that I lock in at the time of commitment.

 

[West]

Also watching the morning MSN CBS....

NOT one word about PMs.

The top is not even close to topping.

And Dolly Parton is still working 9 to 5....

 

[Southside]

Also keep in mind, often you won't get a 1099 for selling gold.... saves on taxes if you forget to report that transactions......

Actually, reporting forf most of the precious metals was cancelled effective 12/31/2024.

VERY few sales are reported.

 

[Greatgrandad]

Lol.. Of the average amount of gold owners have, it's 6 ounces.

For silver owners, the average amount is less than 50 ounces.

They won't be buying houses, or much else in the future, with those amounts.

And the percentage of people who own any gold or silver is between 10% -11%, so there's a big bunch who don't stack at all, and just trade in those depreciating dollars.

A rather meaningless statement. Being "average" has never been a plan for success. Especially for a community that supposedly prepares for various potential and unforeseen future events.

How many "average" people have more than a few days of food and water on hand at any given moment? Fuel? Power backup? Etc, etc, etc?

 

[Southside]

Yes. I online traded on the FOREX for several years. During the 2011 PM spikes, I did rather well using a margin. Took the FRN's and converted those into real metals and other tangibles that I hold/own.

Also, I have sold PM's back to APMEX for daily spot prices that I lock in at the time of commitment.

I have never had a problem selling PM's, including Rhodium.

 

[Southside]

And in a grid down situation, who you going to offload and sell your gold or silver to?

To the same person you will be selling your stocks to in that situation.

Really?

That's your argument?

 

[ellsworth848]

Silver just broke $50 on Kitco Charts -

 

[Greatgrandad]

To the same person you will be selling your stocks to in that situation.

Really?

That's your argument?

I guess he's never heard of barter. WHY "sell" your PM's when one simply trades them for other tangibles? He is locked into the idea that paper FRN's will always be accepted in the future and during any crisis, short or long term.

 

[Bogey]

Very interesting times.

 

[BUBBAHOTEPT]

Gold hits $4,000 but stocks still win over time, top advisor says: ‘Gold glitters but earnings compound’

Folks have shown some pretty good analysis of the gold versus 401k scenario. But, always the one thing that counts, is when you take profits. Markets will and can fluctuate, sometimes radically...

As the great prophet Kenny said:
You got know when to hold'em, You got to know when to fold'em
You got know when to walk away, You got know when to run

Now more than ever. Wow, we certainly live in interesting times…..

 

[mbabulldog]

Deleted.

 

[Southside]

I guess he's never heard of barter. WHY "sell" your PM's when one simply trades them for other tangibles? He is locked into the idea that paper FRN's will always be accepted in the future and during any crisis, short or long term.

He has no idea what the concept of counter-party risk.
PM's are THE ONLY financial asset that does not have them.

How badly has the public 'school' system and the parents failed the teens and twenties of today? They know nothing about financing, budgeting or even basic math. They know little about simple interest rates let alone the damage that compounding interest does. They are not only illiterate when it comes to reading but illiterate when it comes to math as well.

But that isn't the biggest problem. This is the biggest problem when it comes to finances and economics;

View attachment 563342

This is an old graphic. In 2025 the melt value of five 90% silver quarters is: $43.40 or $8.68 a piece. So if you are not pulling $43 and change you are not even making the minimum wage by 1964 standards. Also added for emphasis;

View attachment 563343

Just remember, the only difference in Federal Reserve money and Monopoly money is Monopoly money holds its value!

 

[20Gauge]

Actually, reporting forf most of the precious metals was cancelled effective 12/31/2024.

VERY few sales are reported.

My point. Where stock sales are reported and thus income tax is paid.... lowering the rate of return.

 

[Southside]

My point. Where stock sales are reported and thus income tax is paid.... lowering the rate of return.

I believe the reason they got rid of reporting is they are going to get rid of the gains on PM's, because they ARE REAL MONEY, according to the constitution.

That is the argument used in getting rid of sales tax on it.

 

[Southside]

SILVER....KITCO
50.91!!!!!!!!

 

[ellsworth848]

WOW - blew thu $50 in half an hour - where is this going? Short squeeze on the big boys?


$51.28 USD $3.07 USD 6.37% 1W

 

[Hfcomms]

l

SILVER....KITCO
50.91!!!!!!!!

This might be the week with a Friday close above $50. Look for a concentrated effort tomorrow with them expending whatever dry powder they still have to keep it from happening. If they are successful they might have bought themselves another week. If they are not this will really start to attract not only retail participation but also the algorithms that ‘invest’ into the metal ETF’s.

 

[Southside]

Someone in the silver market is being eviscerated!

Oh my!

 

[Southside]

l


This might be the week with a Friday close above $50. Look for a concentrated effort tomorrow with them expending whatever dry powder they still have to keep it from happening. If they are successful they might have bought themselves another week. If they are not this will really start to attract not only retail participation but also the algorithms that ‘invest’ into the metal ETF’s.

They might lose that ability.............in the next few minutes.
It's a runaway train.

 

[Hfcomms]

Someone in the silver market is being eviscerated!

Oh my!

The shorts have to cover and speaking of shorts they are rapidly being filled with fecal material.

 

[Southside]

Well, there goes that!
Still going to be hard to put the genie back in the bottle.

It's off to the races!

 

[summerthyme]

Looks like they're hammering silver down as hard as they can. I wonder how much energy (reserves) they've got left in the tank?

Summerthyme

 

[summerthyme]

Also, something that occurred to me last night...

For the stock owners out there...how do you manage to sell your stocks, or spend your balance, when the power goes out? Or everyone at the brokerage stops answering the phones? Isn't it true, you no longer even have the ability to hold paper stock certificates to prove your holdings?

He has no idea what the concept of counter-party risk.
PM's are THE ONLY financial asset that does not have them.

Yeah... I know that in the event of massive upheaval, any "dollars" we've got in our local credit union are likely gone...the banking rules they put in place a few years back mean we are now simply creditors...and creditors at the absolute end of the line, at that.

I've never studied stocks (or high finance, to be honest. We've always been debt averse, because we DO understand compounding interest, but my day to day life has always been too busy to try to learn about something that only touches our lives peripherally, and that we have zero control over), but I'm betting they aren't any different.

I have no problem believing that, should things start collapsing, those who DO hold the stock certificates will manage to keep "your" "money".

I probably lived among the Amish too long! They do use banks. But we know several of the richest in the community who keep everything but their "daily working cash" (which is in a checking account) hidden at home.

Which created the very interesting afternoon scene at the legal offices of the lawyer representing the Amish buyer of our farm... counting out the FULL purchase price in cash!

They have zero trust in anything that requires electricity to preserve their wealth. And I agree with them!

Summerthyme

 

[mbabulldog]

It'll be back down to $35 by close tomorrow, lol.

 

[West]

Also, something that occurred to me last night...

For the stock owners out there...how do you manage to sell your stocks, or spend your balance, when the power goes out? Or everyone at the brokerage stops answering the phones? Isn't it true, you no longer even have the ability to hold paper stock certificates to prove your holdings?

Yeah... I know that in the event of massive upheaval, any "dollars" we've got in our local credit union are likely gone...the banking rules they put in place a few years back mean we are now simply creditors...and creditors at the absolute end of the line, at that.

I've never studied stocks (or high finance, to be honest. We've always been debt averse, because we DO understand compounding interest, but my day to day life has always been too busy to try to learn about something that only touches our lives peripherally, and that we have zero control over), but I'm betting they aren't any different.

I have no problem believing that, should things start collapsing, those who DO hold the stock certificates will manage to keep "your" "money".

I probably lived among the Amish too long! They do use banks. But we know several of the richest in the community who keep everything but their "daily working cash" (which is in a checking account) hidden at home.

Which created the very interesting afternoon scene at the legal offices of the lawyer representing the Amish buyer of our farm... counting out the FULL purchase price in cash!

They have zero trust in anything that requires electricity to preserve their wealth. And I agree with them!

Summerthyme

I've invested in ladders and saws-all. This way when the banks/investment houses close up with my account balances I'll take there mechanical systems and scrap them out for the new currency what ever that will be.

Really IDK. And its a good question. Our stocks in major miners are doing really well as of lately.

 

[Southside]

It'll be back down to $35 by close tomorrow, lol.

I've ridden this train for a long time. It is subject to sudden changes in direction, acceleration and deceleration at ANY TIME!

You kinda get used to it. I will agree with King Samson on one thing. A properly diversified portfolio tends to be very consistent.

Well, that wasn't going to work for me. I got married in 1999 at 39. Before that I had little reason to save.
So, if I was going to "make it happen" I had to hit a home run. Did about a year of studying, and started to buy physical.
At that time, gold & silver were selling for less than the cost of production. Many miners had gone out of business, and mines were shuttered. I went all in.

25 years later, Home run!

 

[Greatgrandad]

I've ridden this train for a long time. It is subject to sudden changes in direction, acceleration and deceleration at ANY TIME!

You kinda get used to it. I will agree with King Samson on one thing. A properly diversified portfolio tends to be very consistent.

Well, that wasn't going to work for me. I got married in 1999 at 39. Before that I had little reason to save.
So, if I was going to "make it happen" I had to hit a home run. Did about a year of studying, and started to buy physical.
At that time, gold & silver were selling for less than the cost of production. Many miners had gone out of business, and mines were shuttered. I went all in.

25 years later, Home run!

Other than when I purchase, I never really worry about the paper FRN "value" of my PM's or other tangible assets. An ounce of gold or silver is always and ounce of gold or silver. Just like so many other assets we hold/own. If things go belly up tomorrow or the lights go out permanently, I have what I have, and what I may want or need that I don't have, which will not be much, I have something to trade with the neighbors and community.

Nobody will be bartering with BTC, stocks, bonds etc during those times.

 

[Southside]

Other than when I purchase, I never really worry about the paper FRN "value" of my PM's or other tangible assets. An ounce of gold or silver is always and ounce of gold or silver. Just like so many other assets we hold/own. If things go belly up tomorrow or the lights go out permanently, I have what I have, and what I may want or need that I don't have, which will not be much, I have something to trade with the neighbors and community.

Nobody will be bartering with BTC, stocks, bonds etc during those times.

Totally agree. Bought more silver last Friday.
Add to the stack.

 

[ktrapper]

Here’s your canary in a coal mine:

View attachment 564157

And this is where we are at today.
I gave $69k for my 40 acres back in 2019.
Now 40 around here in the mountains is going for $180k with no water on the property if its even available any more.

Looks like the PMs are playing catch up? and/or are a indicator of things to come.

 

[King Samson]

To the same person you will be selling your stocks to in that situation.

Really?

That's your argument?

LOL.. that was West's argument, grid down, you can't sell your stocks. But in grid down, you ain't selling your gold/silver either, so his original argument doesn't fly either.

So, got cash in grid down? I do.

He is locked into the idea that paper FRN's will always be accepted in the future and during any crisis, short or long term.

They ALWAYS will be accepted, and the main reason is like I posted above. Close to 90% of people have zero PMs, so what do they trade in, if FRNs go away? Think about that for a minute.

For the stock owners out there...how do you manage to sell your stocks, or spend your balance, when the power goes out? Or everyone at the brokerage stops answering the phones? Isn't it true, you no longer even have the ability to hold paper stock certificates to prove your holdings?

See my answer above about cash. Do you think that people who have stock investments ONLY just have those investments, and that's it? And regarding having paper stock certificates , those are dinosaurs. Ever hear of monthly statements or doing printouts of your balances regularly?

Yes, and a huge percentage don't have $500 to use in an emergency. So?

LOL... yet they think buying a few trinket coins of silver will be their savior. Really?

That goes along with 2/3rds of the population that live paycheck to paycheck, and 48% who run out of money before the next paycheck.

 

[King Samson]

I will agree with King Samson on one thing. A properly diversified portfolio tends to be very consistent.

Funny here, how many want to buck that trend and poo poo it. My 30 year chart above proves it. Take a look at this article, I don't see PMs on the list, do you?

The 5 most popular ways Americans build wealth—and how to get started yourself​

No matter how they define it, many Americans want to consider themselves wealthy.
Over half — 57% — of Americans believe they’ll be wealthier than their parents, according to a recent LendingTree survey of 2,000 U.S. adults. But more than 20% aren’t currently utilizing common strategies to build wealth, the financial services company found.

Here are the five most popular wealth-building strategies Americans currently use, according to LendingTree:

1. Owning a home: 36%
2. Saving for retirement: 33%
3. Putting money in an online savings account: 29%
4. Investing in the stock market: 24%
5. Working with a financial advisor: 17%

Those aiming to grow their own wealth may use a combination of strategies throughout their lives. And that’s OK: There’s “not one [wealth-building] methodology that works better than the other,” Adrienne Davis, a certified financial planner with Zenith Wealth Partners, tells CNBC Make It. “There’s no one size fits all.”

How to start building wealth​

Davis says she generally tells her clients to start contributing to retirement savings “as early as possible.” That’s because even if you can’t contribute a high percentage of your income, more time in the market gives you a longer time horizon for your money to grow through compound interest, in which you earn returns on your returns, not just your initial investment.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/08/29/how-to-build-wealth.html

 

[Southside]

Funny here, how many want to buck that trend and poo poo it. My 30 year chart above proves it. Take a look at this article, I don't see PMs on the list, do you?

It does, for THAT 30 year period. And past does NOT predict future. Again, by my example, had that same person waited till 1999 or 2000 to invest, the returns would have been worlds different.

You are right, I do not see PM's on that list. I don't see Hot Dog Stands either, but you can get rich owning one.
There are a million ways to skin that cat. Look at the Nikkei Dow from a high in Dec 1989 of 38,115, was not bettered until March 2024.

35 years of nothing.

It can happen here too.