DISASTER (post-Ike) Where would you rebuild or live?

sassy

Veteran Member
Hurricane Ike has sparked many debates on the forum in the last few days. One of which is whether or not people should be living in disaster areas. Whether they should be rebuilding in areas where there are disasters.

I thought it would be interesting to look up all US disasters and black out the states that have declared disasters on a map. The disasters which I have included are Hurricane, Severe Storms, Tropical Storms, Flooding, Mudslides, Landslides, Winter Storms, Ice Storms, Tornados, Wildfires, Severe Snow Storms, Massive Fires and Earthquakes.
[All documented by FEMA]

I start with a map of the 50 states of the USA.

Then I display a map of the same with all states that declared disasters in 2008 blacked out.

Then I displayed that map with all states that declared disaster in 2007 blacked out.

And again, displayed same map with all states that declared disaster in 2006.

Next post...just some interesting notes I found in my research.

With this in mind, that you should not live in an area that has disasters nor rebuild in those same states, I ask you....

Where are you going to live and build???


[1st map - just the map with no black outs]
 

sassy

Veteran Member
Some of my notes...

According to Scientists & Geologists, these are some natural disasters we have to look forward to:

1) Tsunami-Generating Earthquake Near U.S. Possibly Imminent

No coastline safe from tsunami. Astronomers looking at a rock that could hit Earth in future.

Cascadia subduction zone...680 mile fault that runs 50 miles off coast of Pacific NW
from Cape Mendocino CA to Vancouver Island in southern British Columbia has had 4 massive earthquakes during the past 1600 yrs.

2) Pacific Northwest Megathrust Earthquake

9.0 or larger earthquake between No Calif and Canada?

3) Hurricane Threat to New York City

(1938) The Bermuda High ripped boardwalks in NJ, no warnings were issued.
117 yrs since the last storm in New York (1821). Winds destroy roofs on Long Island,
trees uprooted, telephone poles snapped, 3 hours of high tide, and New Yorkers reported a thick heavy gray fog, 25 to 40 foot above the water coming towards So Coast.
Some fled to a bridge and some did not. Most died when the gray fog turned out to be a storm surge. Gusts 200 mph! The hurricane passed 55 miles east of Manhattan. Had it hit direct, it would have destroyed the island.

Other hurricane-related events in New York:

1821: Hurricane passed directtly over New York City and tides up 13 feet.
East River and the Hudson combined to cross lower Manhattan and north to Canal St.
Fortunately, few lived there at the time.

1893: Cat 1 destroyed Hog Island

1960: Hurricane Donna created an 11-foot storm tide in the New York Harbor that caused pier damage. Forced 300 families to evacuate Long Island.

1999: Floyd, weakened to a tropical storm, brought sustained 60 mph winds and dumped 10-15 inches of rain on upstate New Jersey and New York State.

2004: The remains of Hurricane Frances in September flooded city subways, stranding some passengers aboard trains that had to be stopped by flooded tracks.


4) Asteroid Impact....?????????

5) Los Angeles Tsunami...

6) Supervolcano.....Yellowstone?

7) Midwest Earthquake....Missouri, Boston, So Carolina, Mississippi?

8) Heat and Drought



Natural Disasters in USA 1980 to 2004:

2004:
Hurricane Jeanne. Cat 3. Landfall Florida. Wind, storm surge and flooding damag in FL.
Flood damage also in GA, SC, NC, VA, MD, DE, NJ, PA and NY.
$6.5 billion in damage.....28 deaths

Hurricane Ivan. Cat 3. Landfall Alabama. Wind, storm surge and flooding in AL and FL. Also with wind/flood damage in GA, SC, NC, VA, LA, MS, WV, MD, TN, KY, OH, DE, NJ, PA and NY. $12 billion in damage.........52 deaths

Hurricane Frances. Cat 2. Landfall in FL Wind, storm surge and flooding in FL. Flood damage also in GA, SC, NC and NY (5-15 inches of rains) $9 billion in damage....38 deaths.

Hurricane Charley. Cat 4 landfall in southwest Florida, wind and some storm surge damage in FL, along with some damage in the states of SC and NC. $14 billion in damage/costs; at least 34 deaths.

2003

So California. Wildfires in Oct. To Nov. 743K acres burned, 3700 homes destroyed.
$ 2.5 billion.......22 deaths


Hurricane Isabel Cat 2 landfall in eastern North Carolina, storm surge damage along the coasts of NC, VA, and MD, with wind damage and some flooding due to 4-12 inch rains in NC, VA, MD, DE, WV, NJ, NY, and PA; $5 billion in damages.....55 deaths.

Severe Storms and Tornadoes Early May 2003. Numerous tornadoes over the midwest, MS valley, OH/TN valleys and portions of the southeast, with a modern record one-week total of approximately 400 tornadoes reported; over $3.4 billion in damages/costs; 51 deaths.

Storms and Hail Early April 2003. Severe storms and large hail over the southern plains and lower MS valley, with Texas hardest hit, and much of the monetary losses due to hail; over $ 1.6 billion in damages/costs: 3 deaths.
2002

Drought Spring through early Fall 2002. Moderate to Extreme drought over large portions of 30 states, including the western states, the Great Plains, and much of the eastern U.S.; estimate of over $ 10.0 billion in damages/costs; no deaths.

Western Fire Season Spring through Fall 2002. Major fires over 11 western states from the Rockies to the west coast, due to drought and periodic high winds, with over 7.1 million acres burned; over $ 2.0 billion in damages/costs; 21 deaths.

2001

Tropical Storm Allison June 2001. Rainfall amounts of 30-40 inches in portions of coastal Texas and Louisiana, causing severe flooding especially in the Houston area, then moves slowly northeastward; fatalities and significant damage reported in TX, LA, MS, FL, VA, and PA;
$5. billion in damage/costs; at least 43 deaths.

Midwest and Ohio Valley Hail and Tornadoes April 2001. Storms, tornadoes, and hail in the states of TX, OK, KS, NE, IA, MO, IL, IN, WI, MI, OH, KY, WV, and PA, over a 6-day period; $1.9 billion in damage/costs......3 deaths.

2000

Drought/Heat Wave Spring-Summer 2000. Severe drought and persistent heat over south-central and southeastern states causing significant losses to agriculture and related industries;
$4.0 billion in damage......... 140 deaths nationwide.

Western Fire Season Spring-Summer 2000. Severe fire season in western states due to drought and frequent winds, with nearly 7 million acres burned;
$2 billion in damage........ no deaths reported.

1999

Hurricane Floyd Cat 2 Landfall NC, causing 10-20 inch rains in 2 days, with severe flooding in NC and some flooding in SC, VA, MD, PA, NY, NJ, DE, RI, CT, MA, NH, and VT;
$6 billion damage/costs;....... 77 deaths.

Eastern Drought/Heat Wave Summer 1999. Very dry summer and high temperatures, mainly in eastern U.S., with extensive agricultural losses;
$ 1 billion damage.............502 deaths.

Oklahoma-Kansas Tornadoes May 1999. Outbreak of F4-F5 tornadoes hit the states of Oklahoma and Kansas, along with Texas and Tennessee, Oklahoma City area hardest hit;
$ 1.6 billion..................55 deaths .

Arkansas-Tennessee Tornadoes Jan 1999. Two outbreaks of tornadoes in 6-day period strike Arkansas and Tennessee
$1.4 billion...................17 deaths

1998

Texas Flooding October-November 1998. Severe flooding in southeast Texas from 2 heavy rain events, with 10-20 inch rainfall totals
$ 1 billion............31 deaths

Hurricane Georges Sept 1998. Cat 2 Landfall Florida Keys and Gulf coasts of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida panhandle, 15-30 inch 2-day rain totals in parts of AL/FL;
$ 6.5 billion...............16 deaths

Hurricane Bonnie Aug 1998. Cat 3 North Carolina and Virginia, extensive agricultural damage due to winds and flooding, with 10-inch rains in 2 days in some locations
$ 1 billion..............3 deaths

Southern Drought/Heat Wave Summer 1998. Severe drought and heat wave from Texas/Oklahoma eastward to the Carolinas
$ 6-9 billion..........200 deaths

Minnesota Severe Storms/Hail May 1998. Very damaging severe thunderstorms with large hail over wide areas of Minnesota
$ 1.7 billion...........1 death

SE Severe Weather Winter-Spring 1998. Tornadoes and flooding related to El Nino in southeastern states
$ 1 billion............132 deaths

Northeast Ice Storm January 1998. Intense ice storm hits Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, and New York, with extensive forestry losses
$ 1.5 billion.............16 deaths

1997

Northern Plains Flooding April-May 1997. Severe flooding in Dakotas and Minnesota due to heavy spring snowmelt
$ 4 billion.................11 deaths

MS and OH Valleys Flooding and Tornadoes March 1997. Tornadoes and severe flooding hit the states of AR, MO, MS, TN, IL, IN, KY, OH, and WV, with over 10 inches in 24 hours in Louisville
$ 1 billion.................67 deaths

West Coast Flooding December 1996-January 1997. Torrential rains (10-40 inches in 2 weeks) and snowmelt produce severe flooding over portions of CA, WA, OR, ID, NV & Montana.
$ 3 billion....................36 deaths

1996

Hurricane Fran Sept1996. Cat 3 N Carolina and Virginia, over 10-inch 24-hour rains in some locations and extensive agricultural and other losses
$ 5.8 billion.......................37 deaths

Southern Plains Severe Drought Fall 1995 thru Summer 1996. Severe drought in agricultural regions of southern plains--Texas and Oklahoma most severely affected;
$ 5 billion............no deaths

Pacific NW Severe Flooding Feb1996. Very heavy, persistent rains (10-30 inches) and melting snow over Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and western Montana;
$ 1 billion....................9 deaths

Blizzard of '96 Followed by Flooding January 1996. Very heavy snowstorm (1-4 feet) over Appalachians, Mid-Atlantic, and Northeast; followed by severe flooding in parts of same area due to rain and snowmelt
$ 3 billion..................187 deaths

1995

Hurricane Opal Oct 1995. Cat 3 Florida panhandle, Alabama, western Georgia, eastern Tenn, and the western Carolinas, causing storm surge, wind, and flooding damage;
$ 3 billion....................27 deaths

Hurricane Marilyn Sept 1995. Cat 2 U.S. Virgin Islands;
$ 2 billion.................13 deaths

Texas/Oklahoma/Louisiana/Mississippi Severe Weather and Flooding May 1995. Torrential rains, hail, and tornadoes across Texas - Oklahoma and southeast Louisiana - southern Mississippi, with Dallas and New Orleans areas (10-25 inches in 5 days) hardest hit
$ 6 billion...........................32 deaths

California Flooding January-March 1995. Frequent winter storms cause 20-70 inches rainfall and periodic flooding across much of California;
$ 3 billion......................27 deaths

1994

Western Fire Season Summer-Fall 1994. Severe fire season in western states due to dry weather; $1 billion............................no deaths
Texas Flooding October 1994. Torrential rain (10-25 inches in 5 days) and thunderstorms cause flooding across much of southeast Texas
$1 billion................ 19 deaths.

Tropical Storm Alberto July 1994. Remnants of slow-moving Alberto brought torrential 10-25 inch rains in 3 days, widespread flooding, and agricultural damage in parts of Georgia, Alabama, and panhandle of Florida
$ 1 billion.......................32 deaths

SE Ice Storm February 1994. Intense ice storm with extensive damage in portions of TX, OK, AR, LA, MS, AL, TN, GA, SC, NC, and VA
$ 3 billion..........................9 deaths

1993

California Wildfires Fall 1993. Dry weather, high winds, and wildfires in southern California;
$ 1 billion...............................4 deaths


Midwest Flooding Summer 1993. Severe, widespread flooding in central U.S. due to persistent heavy rains and thunderstorms
$ 21 billion...............................48 deaths

Drought/Heat Wave Summer 1993. Southeastern U.S
$ 1 billion......................16 deaths

Blizzard Mar ‘93 “Storm of the Century” hit entire eastern seaboard w/ tornados, high winds,
heavy snows (2-4 feet)
$ 6 billion................................270 deaths
.
1992

Nor'easter of 1992 December 1992. Slow-moving storm batters northeast U.S. coast, New England hardest hit
$ 2 billion...........................19 deaths

Hurricane Iniki Sept ‘92..Cat 4 hit Hawai
$ 2 billion.............................7 deaths

Hurricane Andrew Aug 1992. Cat 5 Florida and Louisiana, high winds damage or destroy over 125,000 homes
$ 27 billion...........................61 deaths

1991

Oakland Firestorm October 1991. Oakland, California firestorm due to low humidities and high winds
$ 3 billion..............................25 deaths

Hurricane Bob August 1991. Cat 2 coastal North Carolina, Long Island, and New England
$ 2 billion...........................18 deaths

1990

Texas/Oklahoma/Louisiana/Arkansas Flooding May 1990. Torrential rains cause flooding along the Trinity, Red, and Arkansas Rivers in TX, OK, LA, and AR;
$ 1 billion............................13 deaths
1989

Hurricane Hugo Sept 1989. Cat 4 No and So Carolina ~ 20-foot storm surge and severe wind damage after hitting Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands
$ 9 billion.......................86 deaths

Northern Plains Drought Summer 1989. Severe summer drought over much of the northern plains with significant losses to agriculture
$ 1 billion..........................no deaths

1988

Drought/Heat Wave Summer 1988. Central and eastern U.S. with very severe losses to agriculture and related industries
$ 40 billion................................5000- 10,000 deaths

1986

Southeast Drought/Heat Wave Summer 1986. Severe summer drought in parts of the southeastern U.S. with severe losses to agriculture
1 billion........................................100 deaths

1985

Hurricane Juan Oct-Nov 1985. Cat 1 Louisiana and Southeast U.S.--severe flooding;
$ 1 billion.....................................63 deaths

Hurricane Elena Augt-Sept 1985. Caty 3 Florida to Louisiana;
$ 1 billion........................................4 deaths

Florida Freeze January 1985. Severe freeze central/northern Florida
$ 1 billion.....................................no deaths

1983
Florida Freeze December 1983. Severe freeze central/northern Florida
$ 2 billion......................................no deaths

Hurricane Alicia Aug 1983. Cat 3 Texas
$ 3 billion.....................................21 deaths

Western Storms and Flooding 1982 - Early 1983. Storms and flooding related to El Nino, especially in the states of WA, OR, CA, AZ, NV, ID, UT, and MT
$ 1 billion........................................45 deaths


Gulf States Storms & Flooding ‘82...Storms and flooding related to El Nino.
Effected states TX, AR, LA, MS, AL, GA & FL
$ 1 billion......................................50 deaths

1980

Drought/Heat Wave June-September 1980. Central and eastern U.S.
$ 20 billion......................................est 10,000 deaths
 

ejagno

Veteran Member
THANK YOU so much for posting what I've been trying to tell people ever since Katrina. Everyone was soooo quick to give their opinions of coastal residents. Over and over I asked those same people if they could guarantee me 100% that if I moved to **** state that they could tell me that there are no natural or man induced disaster threats. Most couldn't and a few tried but with internet archives each and every one was quickly disproved. Some people live and work in areas that provide much comfort to others so that, in our case, you may have fuel, you may have seafood, you may have rice and the list goes on. Again, thank you because a picture is worth a thousand words.
 

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
If you want to move.....

guess you all will have to come to Canada......bring your parkas and mukluks
and touques :lkick: It's the only place NOT blacked out.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
This is kinda a broad brush isn't it????


To be fair you would want to do this research on a county level....since a disaster declared in ONE county would disallow a whole STATE....
 

Dixielee

Veteran Member
I suppose you have to "choose your disaster". I would like to know what kind of disasters would eliminate a state. You may have tornadoes in an area that is declared a disaster area, but it does not affect the entire state. I live in the mountains of NC, but their could be a hurricane on the coast, but it would not affect me.

We may have to deal with drought, but not floods, earthquakes, hurricanes or generally tornados. So, choose your poison. If you live in tornado alley, make sure you have a basement or storm shelter. If you live where it gets cold and snows or has ice storms, then make you have firewood, wood stove, stored water and food.

There are areas where the land is reasonable, natural resources are abundant, disasters few. You just have to look and be willing to relocate.
 

Dean Miller

Archaic Member
Sassy,

Being a little more selective of the type of disaster should give better insight about where to live.

You can't black out all parts of all states. Many (most) parts of most states were perfectly OK in some types of disasters -- even most parts of counties that were declared disaster counties (mine, for example).

However, there are disasters that cover wide areas, such as hurricanes, volcanos and large earthquakes that can kill lots of people and damage many roads. Other wide-area disasters, such as droughts and snow/ice storms are bad economically, but usually don't affect infrastructure and rarely kill more than a few people.

Other disasters, such as floods and tornadoes, have a direct effect on very limited areas, although floods make the news because people tend to build towns and cities along waterways and other low-lying areas.

IOW, search for places that: 1) are not within 100 miles of a coast (tsunamis, hurricanes), 2) not in river valleys, 3) not in potential earthquake areas (see USGS site), 4) not near or downwind of a potential volcano, and 5) in an area that can grow food without irrigation -- even with a moderate drought. You might also want to consider population density (more people is potentially worse).

Simple, eh?? :)
 

Giblin

Veteran Member
Cascade, I think it was an ice storm that shut down a part of the state for 2 days. We didn't get hit but IIRC my son in Wallingford was socked in.
Gib
 
Hurricanes are better than tornadoes----you get more warning and time to prepare.

I have lived through earthquakes, tornadoes, ice storms, hurricanes and just plain ole' foul weather. I prefer hurricanes as one gets lots of warning and can mull over options while the others come quickly with little or no warning.

However, I still believe the best thing is preparation as one never knows where they will be planted. Also, never put your home in a place that has to be constantly rebuilt unless you really like to cost others loads of money or create great inconveniences for society....
 

sassy

Veteran Member
What disaster did we have in CT in that timeframe?


According to FEMA:

Connecticut Receives More Than $6.4 Million in Federal Disaster Aid

2493 Individuals and Businesses Registered for Aid

Release Date: August 15, 2007
Release Number: 1700-047

» More Information on Connecticut Severe Storms and Flooding

Windsor, Conn. -- Almost four months after a nor’easter and flooding in Connecticut, federal disaster grants and loans to those with storm-related losses exceed $6.4M. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) reports that 2493 individuals and businesses from the seven designated counties -- Fairfield, Hartford, Litchfield, Middlesex, New Haven, New London and Windham -- registered for disaster assistance before the August 13 deadline.

EMA Individual Assistance (IA) disaster grants to households total over $2.4 million. The U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA) has made over $2.2 million in low-interest disaster loans to homeowners, renters and businesses. FEMA has obligated over $1.9 million in Public Assistance Program funds to local governments and agencies in Fairfield and Litchfield counties for removing debris, providing disaster-related emergency services and repairing or rebuilding damaged infrastructure.

“In response to Gov. Rell’s request, FEMA worked to provide assistance to communities and individuals affected by the disaster,” said FEMA Federal Coordinating Officer Mike Parker. Assistance with costs from the April 15-27 storms and flooding became available to eligible individuals in seven counties as the result of a June 13 presidential disaster declaration. “I asked for federal assistance because I wanted to ensure the citizens of Connecticut receive all the disaster help they are entitled to,” said Governor M. Jodi Rell. “The cooperation between our state and FEMA benefits individuals, families, municipalities and counties.”

--------------------------------------------------------


[searching Connecticut on Yahoo]
#
JUNE 1982 FLOODING IN CONNECTICUT
JUNE 1982 FLOODING IN CONNECTICUT. East Lyme, Connecticut ... While this will not prevent flooding to occur in the future, it may help provide ...
www.erh.noaa.gov/nerfc/historical/june82.htm - Cached
#
DRS: Governor Rell Authorizes Additional Extension of Tax Filing Deadlines
... of Tax Filing Deadlines Abstract: Governor M. Jodi Rell instructed the Connecticut Department of Revenue Services (DRS) ... on time because of flooding and ...
www.ct.gov/drs/cwp/view.asp?Q=378512&A=1436 - Cached
#
DEP: Natural Hazard Mitigation
... Hazard Mitigation Abstract: Description: In September, 2004, Connecticut adopted a Natural Hazard Mitigation Plan to ... flooding also occur in Connecticut. ...
www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?a=2720&q=325654&depNav_GID=1654&pp=12&n=1 - Cached
#
Flooding Causes Metro-North Delays - Connecticut News Story - WFSB Hartford
NEW YORK -- UPDATED 10:45 a.m. - Metro-North Railroad restores all service after flooding causes delays during the Wednesday morning rush hour. Wednesday, July 18, 2007.
www.wfsb.com/news/13702932/detail.html - 77k - Cached
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Much Of State Underwater After Nor'easter - Connecticut Weather News ...
Flooding Collapses Winsted Bridge. FEMA Helps Connecticut Residents ... tides from the strong winds created flooding along Connecticut's shoreline. ...
www.wfsb.com/weather/12172728/detail.html - 85k - Cached
#
Floods - NOAAWatch
NOAA provides information about floods and flash floods, the number one weather ... Significant flooding continues in Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Arkansas, ...
www.noaawatch.gov/floods.php - Cached
#
Connecticut River flooding threat passes, for now - MassLive.com
Get Western Massachusetts breaking news, comment on the news, see photos and videos, and join the forum discussions at MassLive.com.
masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/04/... - 66k - Cached
#
Flooding in Darien, CT
Filed in Connecticut, Darien, Environment, Flood, Flood Info, Weather. No Comments " ... Causes: Flooding Questions. Letter Delivered to EPC 4/11/2007. PHOTOS ! ...
darienflooding.wordpress.com - Cached

----------------------------------------------------


[Disaster History for Connecticut]

Major Disaster Declarations
Year Date Disaster Types
2007 05/11 Severe Storms and Flooding
2005 12/16 Severe Storms and Flooding
1999 09/23 Tropical Storm Floyd
1996 01/24 Blizzard
1992 12/17 Coastal Flooding, Winter Storm
1991 08/30 Hurricane Bob
1989 07/17 SEVERE STORMS, TORNADOES
1985 10/11 HURRICANE GLORIA
1984 06/18 SEVERE STORMS, FLOODING
1982 06/14 SEVERE STORMS, FLOODING
1979 10/04 TORNADO, SEVERE STORMS
1955 08/20 Hurricane, Torrential Rain, Floods
1954 09/17 HURRICANES

Emergency Declarations

Year Date Disaster Types
2006 05/02 Snow
2005 09/13 Hurricane Katrina Evacuation
2005 02/17 Snow
2004 01/15 Snow
2003 03/11 Snowstorm
1993 03/16 Severe Winds and Blizzard, Record Snowfall
1978 02/07 Blizzards & Snowstorms
 

connie

Veteran Member
The irony is that often the insurance companies require you to rebuild in the same location or they won't pay. Seems to me, they should require you to build somewhere else! That is what I've heard before after hurricanes.
 

sassy

Veteran Member
The irony is that often the insurance companies require you to rebuild in the same location or they won't pay. Seems to me, they should require you to build somewhere else! That is what I've heard before after hurricanes.

I don't know the answer to that. I've lived in SE Texas on the gulf coast all of my life and have never placed a claim.
Nor have I ever been one of the lucky ones [actually unlucky] to get some of my taxes back in the form of disaster aid [fema].
 

libtoken

Veteran Member
For semi-urban living in the MidAtlantic:

1. Live on a moderately sloping street and property ((so that you neither get ponding on your property or street or have mission impossible getting into/out of your street and driveway in the winter)). And try not to live in a potential floodzone.

2. Get overhanging limbs (both your trees and your neighbors') aggressively trimmed.

3. Have standard "power out for a week" preps.

4. Have standard (or enhanced) personal security preps.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
I agree that you can have a 'disaster' anywhere. The difference is in order of magnitude. Out on the left coast you can have a huge earthquake and massive forest fires that will devastate everything for a long time. Along the gulf coast you can have huge hurricanes that are massive disasters and can devastate everything for a long time. The east coast is of course somewhat vulnerable to big hurricanes not to mention the population density, ect.

I choose to live in the U.P. of Michigan. I was not born up here (originally from the Grand Rapids area downstate) but I choose to move up here 10 years ago knowing what was going to take place in the future.

It's geologically stable up here. Plenty of fresh water from the lakes and rivers along with high groundwater levels for the wells. The population density is pretty low and there is adequate game and fishing to supplement your storage foods.

The 'disasters' we might have up here are minimal. Yes, were in forested areas and we can be subject to forest fires but they are minimal compared to much of the rest of the nation as we tend not to have the droughts that lead to the out of control fires. Tornado's?? Possible but rare. We will have one or two a year but it's rare for any of these to go above a F1.

The biggest 'threat' if you call it a threat is rather harsh winters. Because of being by the big lakes it's usually not as bone chilling cold (at least in early to mid winter) as it is in other places because of the moderating influence of the lakes but because of the lakes there is normally plenty of lake effect snow and system snow. Several years ago we had 320 inches of snow for the season!!

However, if you choose to heat with wood and have some snow removal equipment it's very manageable. Heck, even with grid down if your smart it wouldn't be a problem if you prepare. (i.e. heat with wood without needed electric for a furnace fan, ect) If everything go's into the crapper it's good exercise to shovel and cut your own wood and keeps you in shape.

So, as I agree that there is no place perfectly safe you can choose to live in an area that will magnify your chances to be successful in a time of upheaval. In many areas of the nation your possibility of disaster are very great and in other areas it's would be extremely rare or unheard of for a disaster of such an magnitude.
 

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
Does an insurance company actually care where you rebuild?.....

they don't insure the land which could be a large part of the value of the property. Maybe many people have to rebuild on their old land as they only get the house and improvements and possessions payment of the policy and then they would have to buy another piece of land to build on, on top of that cost.
 

rafter

Since 1999
Major disaster in Colorado in 2008? What was it? I must have slept through that one.

Most stuff here is so isolated to federal lands...like forest fires, which is the only disaster I know of the last few years, that it doesn't affect many people.

Once in a while we have a flood down a canyon, but the same as above applies.

We have quiet weather and in the right spots you don't need a/c.

But you wouldn't like it here....:whistle:
 

Nuthatch

Membership Revoked
There are some you can plan well for. I risk drought, flood (don't build in a flood plain) and cold weather events. I can make plans to mitigate the inconvenience of these. My livelihood does not depend on the weather. I am not a farmer, so drought is mildly inconvenient. Flooding isn't an issue because I am out of a flood plain. We get high winds, but I plant trees carefully. We get lightening and again, I do my best to protect electronics, got rid of an unneccessary chimney, etc. Ice and snow and no electric are fine as we have alternatives to take care of that. A freak tornado is possible but not probable. Fires are rare here--I remember some 24 years ago in my state anywhere near (many miles away--just changed air quality).

You have to figure your risk assessment for you and your family. I am afraid of earthquakes. I know Californians afraid of thunderstorms. It is an adjustment.

However, some disasters are more able to be adjusted for than others. Walls of seawater coming at you at high speeds leave few options.

To me that is like building along the river in a flood plain---every state has rivers and places people build in the flood plain so every state SHOULD be blacked out in your example just for this one instance. Don't build where it can/may flood!
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
I agree that many of the "disasters" in some areas rarely affect the "common folk" at all. I know for a fact that the "disaster designations" in our particular county were mostly because of *agricultural* damage. Being a farmer, you'd think that should have affected us... and it did, to the extent we had to buy more feed at higher prices.

But aside from localized flooding, which we certainly can see down in the flood plains of some of the creeks and rivers, we rarely see much which damages homes.

No one is immune from every potential disaster, but for sure, there are places which get more than their share!

I'll try one more time to reiterate my position, and hopefully no one will take personal offense this time. I'm numbed by the extent of the destruction to the Bolivar Peninsula and other lowlying coastal areas, and I truly can't imagine the pain people who lived there are feeling...

I believe everyone should have the right to purchase land or rent *whereever they want*. Hopefully, it would be an informed decision... having met a lot of folks who worry more about the color of the siding of the houses they are looking at, rather than the high water mark on the trees from that pretty little creek behind it, I suspect it's often not.

But... if people choose to live in an area with PROVEN potential for severe disasters... they need to accept that risk personally. And that means doing whatever prepping (including financial) to make themselves whole when (not if) one of the periodic disasters hits.

And, if they're given fair warning to evacuate because something is coming which has the high potential to kill them, or put them in serious danger of dying, and they don't... then they either need to accept the consequences, or - if it's possible for a last minute, dangerous rescue to reach them- pay for that rescue.

This isn't pointed at "just" coastal residents. There are laws in place (as I understand it) out west where wildfires are dangerous which mandate that people keep brush and other flammables cleared a certain distance away from their homes and buildings. I don't quite understand WHY it needs to be mandated... it would seem to be common sense that you'd want to do whatever is possible to protect your home! But it's there, and there are teeth (consequences) in those laws, although I don't know enough about them to get into it any further.

The sad truth is, the world is in deep, deep trouble financially. The money is NOT going to be there for people to continue to rebuild, over and over... maybe not for decades to come. The institutions which allowed coastal living to be "possible", without the threat of bankruptcy to the residents every few years... insurance, disaster aid, even easy credit... are rapidly disintegrating. We're looking at some very hard times to come, and it would seem to be sensible to at least look at ALL aspects and possibilities when choosing where to live.

Now, we've got a freeze warning out and I've got about a week of work to accomplish before sundown. My prayers will continue as I work in this golden Autumn day, for all those who have lost so much.

Summerthyme
 

sassy

Veteran Member
Major disaster in Colorado in 2008? What was it? I must have slept through that one.

Most stuff here is so isolated to federal lands...like forest fires, which is the only disaster I know of the last few years, that it doesn't affect many people.

Once in a while we have a flood down a canyon, but the same as above applies.

We have quiet weather and in the right spots you don't need a/c.

But you wouldn't like it here....:whistle:

I don't like cold weather, so your right. I do think Colorado is beautiful and don't mind a visit.

------
June 27, 2008

DENVER, Colo. -- The U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) today authorized the use of federal funds to help with firefighting costs for the Nash Ranch Fire. The fire is located west of Cripple Creek, in an area that includes Teller and Park counties.

FEMA approved Colorado's request for a federal Fire Management Assistance Grant (FMAG) at 12:41 a.m., after receiving the state's request confirming that the fire was threatening 150 homes.


May 26, 2008

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The head of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) today announced that federal disaster aid has been made available for Colorado to supplement state and local recovery efforts in the area struck by severe storms and tornadoes on May 22, 2008.

04/16/2008

Colorado Ordway Fire

http://www.gazette.com/articles/colorado_35308___article.html/fire_carson.html

Snow and rain and a round-the-clock battle on fire lines brought wildfires on Fort Carson and near Ordway under control, allowing hundreds of evacuated residents to return home this afternoon. For about 700 people forced from homes neighboring the Army post south of Colorado Springs as a grass fire grew overnight to more than 8,900 acres, homecoming was a relief - no houses were damaged.

In Ordway, 50 miles east of Pueblo, where a 9,000-acre fire forced the evactuation of the 1,200 residents, the scene was grimmer: About two dozen building were damaged and some residents found ashes where their homes had stood.
 

rafter

Since 1999
There ya go...all those happened over on the other side of the big hills. Isolated events.

I don't think you will find the 'garden of eden' that you are looking for. It doesn't exist. Even a paradise such as Hawaii has violent catastrophies.

I know that we can have fires. But we have no tornados here, nor hurricanes, earthquakes are rare and in the 2.0 range if that. 300 days of sunshine a year, and low humidity so its like living outside in a/c in the summer.

We do get some snow, but its not cold in the winter. Rarely wear a coat during the day.

I don't have to sleep with a NOAA radio.

Good luck in your search.
 

sassy

Veteran Member
There ya go...all those happened over on the other side of the big hills. Isolated events.

I don't think you will find the 'garden of eden' that you are looking for. It doesn't exist. Even a paradise such as Hawaii has violent catastrophies.

I know that we can have fires. But we have no tornados here, nor hurricanes, earthquakes are rare and in the 2.0 range if that. 300 days of sunshine a year, and low humidity so its like living outside in a/c in the summer.

We do get some snow, but its not cold in the winter. Rarely wear a coat during the day.

I don't have to sleep with a NOAA radio.

Good luck in your search.

Rafter, I have no intention of moving. I love it here.
You could not pay me to move out of Texas and especially SE Texas.

This is my home and I am here to stay.

I was just trying to make a point.

I don't sleep with a NOAA radio either.

I have lived in Texas all my life (52 years) and have been through 2 hurricanes. Most are not a big deal and we do have somewhat of an advance warning.

This one was bad but it will NOT stop the people of Texas. The Spirit of Texas is STRONG!
 

FREEBIRD

Has No Life - Lives on TB
There is no perfectly safe place. Our likeliest disasters are tornadoes and blizzards, and the odd ice storm. I'd rather deal with those than with hurricanes; while familiarity may well be a factor in that thinking, the odds are that a given tornadic storm won't wipe out everything in the area and the odds that a specific building will be destroyed is pretty low; blizzards and ice storms are pretty unlikely to destroy a dwelling.
 

Nuthatch

Membership Revoked
I don't think anyone doubts the spitit of Texas or any other state.

Sometimes we question their choices.

And I quit helping with flood relief when I realized 90% of the folks wanted to show their patriotism by rebuilding in the same place. Idiots.
 

SassyinAZ

Inactive
The difference between hurricanes and any other type of disaster is the regular cycle and warnings and whether risks can effectively be mitigated, they can't; like Doc says, you can build against the wind, you can't build against water.

You have to get out of the way, there IS ample warning and even with dire warnings people stay -- peeps that aren't willing to get out of the way, shouldn't live there, it shouldn't take legislation, but it will because people are people -- eventually, insurance companies just won't cover them.

I agree that many of the "disasters" in some areas rarely affect the "common folk" at all. I know for a fact that the "disaster designations" in our particular county were mostly because of *agricultural* damage. Being a farmer, you'd think that should have affected us... and it did, to the extent we had to buy more feed at higher prices.

But aside from localized flooding, which we certainly can see down in the flood plains of some of the creeks and rivers, we rarely see much which damages homes.

No one is immune from every potential disaster, but for sure, there are places which get more than their share!

I'll try one more time to reiterate my position, and hopefully no one will take personal offense this time. I'm numbed by the extent of the destruction to the Bolivar Peninsula and other lowlying coastal areas, and I truly can't imagine the pain people who lived there are feeling...

I believe everyone should have the right to purchase land or rent *whereever they want*. Hopefully, it would be an informed decision... having met a lot of folks who worry more about the color of the siding of the houses they are looking at, rather than the high water mark on the trees from that pretty little creek behind it, I suspect it's often not.

But... if people choose to live in an area with PROVEN potential for severe disasters... they need to accept that risk personally. And that means doing whatever prepping (including financial) to make themselves whole when (not if) one of the periodic disasters hits.

And, if they're given fair warning to evacuate because something is coming which has the high potential to kill them, or put them in serious danger of dying, and they don't... then they either need to accept the consequences, or - if it's possible for a last minute, dangerous rescue to reach them- pay for that rescue.

This isn't pointed at "just" coastal residents. There are laws in place (as I understand it) out west where wildfires are dangerous which mandate that people keep brush and other flammables cleared a certain distance away from their homes and buildings. I don't quite understand WHY it needs to be mandated... it would seem to be common sense that you'd want to do whatever is possible to protect your home! But it's there, and there are teeth (consequences) in those laws, although I don't know enough about them to get into it any further.

The sad truth is, the world is in deep, deep trouble financially. The money is NOT going to be there for people to continue to rebuild, over and over... maybe not for decades to come. The institutions which allowed coastal living to be "possible", without the threat of bankruptcy to the residents every few years... insurance, disaster aid, even easy credit... are rapidly disintegrating. We're looking at some very hard times to come, and it would seem to be sensible to at least look at ALL aspects and possibilities when choosing where to live.

Now, we've got a freeze warning out and I've got about a week of work to accomplish before sundown. My prayers will continue as I work in this golden Autumn day, for all those who have lost so much.

Summerthyme

Nodding Summerthyme.

I advised of our stupid motorist law, we are prone to flash flooding during monsoon season especially -- peeps think they are superman or something and that they can drive through, despite continuous warnings not to, it shouldn't have to be legislated but it is -- be stupid and drive through flood waters, require assistance/rescue, you are charged for it.

Ditto for the bolded part above, shouldn't have to be legislated but it is -- don't do it, the city/county will and you'll get a bill for it; don't pay, you (at best) get a lien, depending on the citing authority. If municipal, it can lead to a warrant.

ETA: The only thing consistent in the listing of disasters by year (wondering why some years are excluded though -- no disasters?) are hurricanes in the Gulf.
 

sassy

Veteran Member
1.5 to 2 million did evacuate from the coastal and flood prone areas. That does not include western Louisiana.

Most hurricanes don't do this much damage. And in Katrina, it was the levees failing not so much the hurricane that did damage.
 

Navydad

Inactive
There ya go...all those happened over on the other side of the big hills. Isolated events.

QUOTE]

Now rafter we have enough people. Let's keep Colorado a secret.

Tell everyone that we all live in the Peoples Republic of Boulder. Lefties out the ear.

:whistle:
 

SassyinAZ

Inactive
1.5 to 2 million did evacuate from the coastal and flood prone areas. That does not include western Louisiana.

Most hurricanes don't do this much damage. And in Katrina, it was the levees failing not so much the hurricane that did damage.

Nodding Sassy, but there's reports of up to 140k that did not -- based on the number of rescues, I'm hoping that number is inaccurate.

Exactly on NOLA, they weren't even hit by Katrina -- check what happened in MS where it did hit, that's where the real devastation was, just like areas of the TX coast now -- gone, but it was ignored because of the roof clingers (and they really were a small percentage of the population that didn't evacuate) that refused to leave or couldn't leave (no excuse for that now)and were under mandatory evacuation orders.

Just saying, those that didn't and don't shouldn't be rewarded for their decision at the expense of those that did what they were supposed to do.

I don't want to lose the right to make my own decisions, but when the holdouts ignoring evacuation orders are treated better than those that left, and then denied access and information to even know what the status of their property is to begin making plans, it makes it so in the future, there will be even less evacuations and more dead people or rescues.

And, I agree it shouldn't be legislated, but people are people and the greater of us suffer for the actions of the few -- eventually, what happens is their bad behavior and decisions become legislated in an attempt to mitigate impacts on everyone else.

Texas has been absolutely impressive (I thought they were during Rita too, even with the clusterfk of a traffic jam), especially their pride, spirit, determination and willingness to take care of themselves and residents.

I've more sympathy for those in Galveston especially, though people living there should have been able to figure it out for themselves, the Mayor didn't issue a mandatory evacuation order until after Harris County did (except for the western end). Galveston though, based on the message board postings of those who did evacuate anyway, won't be re-electing their Mayor, if she's not recalled in the meantime.
 
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