GOV/MIL Pentagon advocates requiring women to sign up for military draft

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Dot...

For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/oct/24/pentagon-advocates-requiring-women-to-sign-up-for-/

Pentagon advocates requiring women to sign up for military draft

By Rowan Scarborough - The Washington Times - Tuesday, October 24, 2017

The Pentagon says the country should stick with mandatory registration for a military draft, and it advocates a requirement for women to sign up for the first time in the nation’s history.

The recommendations are contained in a Defense Department report to Congress that serves as a starting point for a commission examining military, national and public service.

Congress ordered the Pentagon report, and the office of the undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness completed it in the early months of the Trump administration.

Currently, only male citizens and residents ages 18-25 are required to register, for a pace of about 2 million each year.

Women, whom the government has never ordered to sign up, would add 11 million to the Selective Service System database “in short order,” the report says.

President Carter restarted draft registration in 1980 as a message to Soviet leaders. Congress exempted women because they did not perform combat.

But today women fly combat aircraft, serve on combat ships and are in the early stages of competing for direct ground combat jobs such as infantry and special operations.

“It appears that, for the most part, expanding registration for the draft to include women would enhance further the benefits presently associated with the Selective Service System,” the Pentagon report states.

A gender-neutral registration, the report says, “would convey the added benefit of promoting fairness and equity not previously possible in the process and would comport the military Selective Service System with our nation’s touchstone values of fair and equitable treatment, and equality of opportunity.”

Congress came close last November to enacting a law that would require women to sign up, with Republican and Democratic backing. An amendment cleared the House Armed Services Committee, but Republican leaders scuttled the move and instead created a commission to conduct a two-year examination.

The Pentagon report, titled “Report on the Purpose and Utility of Registration System for Military Selective Service,” makes two other significant findings.

First, there is no foreseeable reason to restart conscription to augment the 2.1 million all-volunteer active and reserve force.

“The Department of Defense currently has no operational plans that envision mobilization at a level that would require conscription,” the Pentagon says. “Even in the face of sustained conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, DoD has maintained its ability to recruit and retain a professional volunteer force without resorting to a draft.”

Second, the report says registration should stay because of a number of benefits.

For one, it sends a strong message to world adversaries that, if necessary, the U.S. can conduct a mass mobilization.

“Eliminating military selective service could be interpreted by adversaries of the United States as a potential weakness, thus emboldening existing or potential enemies,” the Pentagon says.

The report quotes Ronald Reagan, who referred to registration as an “insurance policy.”

The huge database is also a boon to military recruiters, who can access the names and addresses for leads.

Registration “empowers America’s young men. The voluntary act of registration by a young man on or around his 18th birthday has been, and will continue to be, an opportunity for young American men and male immigrants to consider deliberately a future of military service, and to act accordingly,” the report says.

Last month, 11 former government officials and public service leaders took oaths to serve on the National Commission on Military, National and Public Service. The panel’s chairman is former Rep. Joseph Heck, Nevada Republican, a physician and actively drilling Army Reserve brigadier general.

One of the commission’s objectives is to find ways to encourage military service. Greater portions of the population have no direct military contact, either by serving themselves or by having relatives who served.

Draft registration, the Pentagon argues, “is a lone, slender thread that connects all U.S. citizens to their military. … The possibility of a draft links the entirety of the American people to our nation’s wars, and the risks of military service in those wars.”

“It’s become more of a family business: ‘My grandfather served, my father served, therefore I serve,’” Mr. Heck told The Washington Times. “We have to look at why they are not interested or not able to get the information they need to want to serve.”
 

rmomaha

The Wise Man Prepares
Maybe they know that whatever is coming down the pike will require every last resource we have.
 

Garryowen

Deceased
And maybe they are leftovers from the last admin, and are doing their best continue screwing up the military. Pentagon needs draining also.
 

Sacajawea

Has No Life - Lives on TB
A gender-neutral registration, the report says, “would convey the added benefit of promoting fairness and equity not previously possible in the process and would comport the military Selective Service System with our nation’s touchstone values of fair and equitable treatment, and equality of opportunity.”

All those women who demonstrated in DC after the inauguration in their "pretty pink hats" now have learned the lesson: Be careful what you wish for.

Fools.
 

Mongo

Veteran Member
What kind of people do not protect their women and children?
They may not have my daughters.
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
Well.....if you want TOTAL FULL EQUAL RIGHTS, wouldn't that require TOTAL FULL EQUAL RESPONSIBILITY??:rolleyes:

Now don't get me wrong. My personal opinion is that I really don't think that women should be in COMBAT units. I say that from personal experience as a front line combat veteran and retired military. And yes I have daughters....three as a matter of fact and I don't want them being forced into military service. ESPECIALLY in foreign wars supporting corporate and NWO garbage. Now if this country is attacked directly and they are fighting here on the home front that is something entirely different.

But to say that you have the RIGHT to equal rights WITHOUT accepting full and EQUAL RESPONSIBILITY makes me wonder who is really getting screwed here? It ain't the women.
 

Ractivist

Pride comes before the fall.....Pride month ended.
There are jobs within all branches that a woman can do well. Put them there. No battlefield jobs. It's that cut and dried. Very little deployment, way way back behind any so called lines..... no women in the middle east... women and warriors have never mixed for the better.... short of a minute or two here or there... and that's a signifcant sacrifice in the big picture. R and R.
 

JF&P

Deceased
And maybe they are leftovers from the last admin, and are doing their best continue screwing up the military. Pentagon needs draining also.

YOU are absolutely correct....Obama made a real effort to emasculate our military....and he must have some leftovers in the pentagon.
 

NC Susan

Deceased
Well.....if you want TOTAL FULL EQUAL RIGHTS, wouldn't that require TOTAL FULL EQUAL RESPONSIBILITY??:rolleyes:

Now don't get me wrong. My personal opinion is that I really don't think that women should be in COMBAT units. I say that from personal experience as a front line combat veteran and retired military. And yes I have daughters....three as a matter of fact and I don't want them being forced into military service. ESPECIALLY in foreign wars supporting corporate and NWO garbage. Now if this country is attacked directly and they are fighting here on the home front that is something entirely different.

But to say that you have the RIGHT to equal rights WITHOUT accepting full and EQUAL RESPONSIBILITY makes me wonder who is really getting screwed here? It ain't the women.


You can't argue with this

Shadow is right


Meanwhile only 1% of citizens currently volunteer and only 7% have served
We are out of trained resources In The event we need them immediately

( We are currently recalling pilots from retirement back to Active Duty )

A 2 year draft is NOT going to harm most people
"Girls" included
 

sunny225

Membership Revoked
They can kiss my goat smelling ass,we got rid of involuntary servitude.

I'm with you! They try to draft women they are gonna have a fight on their hands. In fact, if they start drafting men, they'll have an old woman to deal with.
Screw the sonsofbitches who decide they need a war with fresh meat in it while they sit on their asses in DC!


https://archive.lewrockwell.com/barnett/barnett50.1.html

Thank You for Your Service? No Thanks!

by Gary D. Barnett


It would be very difficult for me to think of any term that disgusted me more than those words uttered continuously in the presence of virtually any soldier in the United States: "Thank you for your service."

What service is actually being praised by those conditioned to say these empty words? Why are they thanking and praising nearly every soldier they see?

• Is it because hatred of the U.S. is increasing, and new enemies are being created in the Middle East and all around the rest of the world?

• Is it because thousands and thousands of innocent people are being killed now in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, and many more are being threatened?

• Is it because 20,000,000 to 30,000,000 foreigners, mostly innocent civilians, have died just since World War II due to U.S. interference and war?

• Is it because indefinite detention without due process, torture, assassination, and rendition are now common and accepted practices?

• Is it because suicide rates among American soldiers have increased 80% since the Iraq War began?

• Is it because mental problems now send more military personnel to the hospital than any other cause?

• Is it because destruction and separation of military families is rampant?

• Is it because civil liberties have all but disappeared due to so-called terrorism legislation? (terror legislation would be more accurate)

• Is it because of the creation of the USA PATRIOT Act, Military Commissions Act, NDAA, TSA, and Department of Homeland Security (DHS)?

• Is it because of the massive buildup of killer drones abroad and at home?

• Is it because the huge deficit spending to support multiple aggressive wars is causing economic chaos?

• Is it because of the surging number of double amputees of American soldiers?

• Is it because of increasing energy costs due to the United States unwarranted presence in the Middle East region?

• Is it because the domestic police have now become a brutal militarized force, bent on controlling the entire population?

I could of course go on, but the picture is clear. Those who continue to believe the propaganda about all U.S. wars leading to the protection of freedom, and to our national security, are blinded by ignorance, and consumed by pathetic false patriotism. No U.S. wars have ever served the purpose of freedom; they have only served to destroy it.

Due to these wars of aggression and occupation, our freedoms are virtually non-existent today. We are spied upon, tracked, searched without warrant, sexually assaulted, and radiated. There are now checkpoints in many parts of the country where it is demanded that we "show our papers," and killer spy drones are filling our skies. Government agents and the military are patrolling all U.S. borders, and Blackhawk war helicopters sporting heavily armed soldiers hanging on tethers are flying over our cities.

Because of these wars, the government has gained enormous power, and continues its assault on liberty. A police state environment has taken hold, and if not curbed soon, will lead to Martial Law in the near future. The DHS has purchased enough killing ammunition to murder more than twice the population, and on the say so of one man, Americans can and are being assassinated. Why?

In order for our national security to be defended, we first have to be attacked. That has not happened. In order to protect freedom here at home, all foreign wars must cease, and all the government agencies and "terrorism" legislation created since 9/11 should be abolished immediately! Every U.S. base on foreign soil should be closed, and every troop stationed in another country should come home and enter the private sector. At least that would be a good start.

There is a reason that the young are sent as cannon fodder to die in the wars of the politicians, bankers, and corporations. They are less likely to challenge the orders they are given; orders meant to be obeyed regardless of the immoral nature of those demands, and regardless of the horrible consequences they will most certainly face. Those who "serve" do not serve the people who falsely praise them; they only serve one master, and that master is the nation state and its benefactors. It is not "we the people."

Thank you for your service? Absolutely not! We can’t afford any more of this kind of service!
 

sunny225

Membership Revoked
https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html#c1

War is just a racket!

"A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns six percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag. I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes, and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism. It may seem off for me, a military man, to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to.

I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it.

Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service."

- General Smedley Butler, USMC Retired General, Speech in 1933

(The most decorated Marine in USA history at the time of his retirement)
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
You can't argue with this

Shadow is right


Meanwhile only 1% of citizens currently volunteer and only 7% have served
We are out of trained resources In The event we need them immediately

( We are currently recalling pilots from retirement back to Active Duty )

A 2 year draft is NOT going to harm most people
"Girls" included

The thing is a 2 year enlistment that includes training isn't going to get the return on the investment in training costs, particularly when you take into account the basing infrastructure we have now that would have to be expanded and revitalized if you're going to conduct conscription in any meaningful way, particularly "universal" call ups.

To get the most out of such a scheme, you'd either have to look at a 4 to 6 year active period followed by the IRR or re-organize the Reserve/National Guard to take everyone who completes there active service or directly go to those Reserve/NG units right out of training.

First that's a lot of people, secondly your average 18 year old today is a different critter than 20 or even 10 years ago. To "do this right" would require also changes in the schools, both in terms of physical education and discipline as well as the curriculum (i.e. tightening it up). The end result of all of that is going to be a real cultural, as well as political, change in the county.

As it is, just having the registration of women debate and not looking at the subject on the whole, including US defense/national security and foreign policy along with "the Draft" in such contexts is IMHO kicking a hornet's nest for no real benefit.

There's a reason why DARPA, as well as similar organizations overseas, are looking at ground combat drones as well as other "enhancers" for the ground forces.
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
Well I wouldn't worry about a new draft happening any time soon. First off, there isn't a congress critter that would survive reelection if they voted for this. Plus they'd never allow their own kids to be drafted. And the biggest deterrent is that....heck better than 70% of the young adults out there couldn't meet the MINIMUM Physical, Educational and Drug Free requirements to enlist.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
It would be very difficult for me to think of any term that disgusted me more than those words uttered continuously in the presence of virtually any soldier in the United States: "Thank you for your service."

I have said it to other veterans, and they knew it was a veteran who was saying it. They knew exactly what it took for me to say it; they knew exactly what I meant. I don't give a flying **** what a civilian thinks of it.
 

Chance

Veteran Member
Then before this happens...they better clean up their act.

A couple of things to start with -

Lots of prejudice towards women in the military.

What woman wants to be around a bunch of idiots that can't keep their zippers up and their mouths zipped? Too much of that still goes on!

Rapes, harassment, quid pro quo - all needs to stop.

Second - the military needs to drop that lame belief that 'women are equal to men'. Physically they aren't.

They need to figure that out.

For starters - Keep the women and men soldiers SEPARATE! In basic training, in classes, on the ground, on ships, in tanks....it doesn't work if they're together.

I've had 3 BILs in the military - they don't believe women should even be in the military.

I disagree - there are places in the military for women who want to serve their country this way and for women who are conscripted - - but they need to be protected from the d*mn predators!
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Then before this happens...they better clean up their act.

A couple of things to start with -

Lots of prejudice towards women in the military.

What woman wants to be around a bunch of idiots that can't keep their zippers up and their mouths zipped? Too much of that still goes on!

Rapes, harassment, quid pro quo - all needs to stop.

Second - the military needs to drop that lame belief that 'women are equal to men'. Physically they aren't.

They need to figure that out.

For starters - Keep the women and men soldiers SEPARATE! In basic training, in classes, on the ground, on ships, in tanks....it doesn't work if they're together.

I've had 3 BILs in the military - they don't believe women should even be in the military.

I disagree - there are places in the military for women who want to serve their country this way and for women who are conscripted - - but they need to be protected from the d*mn predators!

Most of this is the culmination of a political movement to "equalize" everything. As you noted, the problem is that there are places that one size does not fit all.

I agree that there are a lot of things women can do, some as well or better. The question should be "should we" be forcing them into all roles? We're not talking about some social experiment, we're talking national security.

IMHO, about the only real argument to justify a draft is a full up national emergency rising to the threat of loss of the country, AKA WW2. In that circumstance the logistical chain is the backbone everything else is hung upon and women can fill that role, as well as internal security, en mass as competently as men.

With circumstances as they are today, you're not going to have the luxury of time for a mobilization like the Second World War. A peer v peer conflict is going to come on fast and then slow into a protracted crawl. What's left in the "protracted crawl" period likelier than not isn't going to be the industrial and population base of the pre-conflict unless there's some stuff they're not talking about laying around in some secure areas of bases.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
There are several issues here:

First I think if they are going to do this they need semi-universal service with both a civilian and a military option; if there are not enough military volunteers then that can be addressed in various ways, but I am not in favor of force marching (literally) real pacifists or those totally unsuited for military life into the military (short of a major defensive war) but a national service option might be viable although it would be expensive.

Second, very few young people will qualify for any sort of service medically if current trends continue; a setting up of "pre-boot camp" (which I notice even the volunteer military is talking about now) would have to be a part of both the military and civilian program; some carrot should be in place for those who take the military option over civilian including better benefits in the future etc.

Third, a forced draft of women faces not only the problem of a military that is still so full of sexual issues that EVERY SINGLE military woman I have ever talked to seriously has a story of her own sexual assault/rape or that of someone she was close to; often by an officer. I am also aware that sometimes women in the ranks can destroy a man's career with false accusations and that is also an issue; but in Saudi, my friends told me women had to go to the bathroom in pairs to avoid rape from fellow soldiers -that HAS to be solved or this won't work.

Finally - The ELEPHANT IN THE LIVING ROOM - PREGNANCY! Drafting women is the quickest way I know of to start a small population boom and reverse the trend towards older mothers. Forcing young women onto birth control or mandating abortions for anyone who gets knocked up while training or of draft age; present social, emotional and theological minefields that I can't see Congress or the military navigating well.

Yep, you could (in theory) either put everyone on birth control (but not all women can take it and it does tend to affect physical readiness in many people, the men's pill was withdrawn for the SAME issues) implants have the same problems and many conservative people believe they are a form of abortion anyway (my opinion doesn't matter here).

You could also (in theory) force all young mothers to give up their babies at birth or force them to hand them over to relatives; again I can't see this working very well, besides if they are in boot-camp or serving with young men more pregnancies are likely.

Yes, the military could punish these women but I don't think public reaction (except in time of serious defensive war) would be favorable; it is human nature not to want to see babies torn from their mother's arms or women punished severely for procreating.

All that said, there are many non-combat jobs that women could easily fill (and many jobs that could be taken back from the private contractors who do them badly) and not all men are suited for combat either but make great support soldiers.

I think the Pentagon may get young women to sign up for the draft, but actually serving is going to be a different matter; come on how many here might help their daughters enlope with their current boyfriend and busy on that grandchild if is was that or go fight in a sandbox in the new "Vietnam," you don't have to post an answer, just be honest with yourself.
 

Paladin1

"In Omnia Paratus" is more than just a phrase
Well.....if you want TOTAL FULL EQUAL RIGHTS, wouldn't that require TOTAL FULL EQUAL RESPONSIBILITY??:rolleyes:

Now don't get me wrong. My personal opinion is that I really don't think that women should be in COMBAT units. I say that from personal experience as a front line combat veteran and retired military. And yes I have daughters....three as a matter of fact and I don't want them being forced into military service. ESPECIALLY in foreign wars supporting corporate and NWO garbage. Now if this country is attacked directly and they are fighting here on the home front that is something entirely different.

But to say that you have the RIGHT to equal rights WITHOUT accepting full and EQUAL RESPONSIBILITY makes me wonder who is really getting screwed here? It ain't the women.

^^^^THIS! I couldn't have said it any better and the fact that you're a combat veteran where I'm not just adds that much more weight to the argument.
 

Paladin1

"In Omnia Paratus" is more than just a phrase
There are jobs within all branches that a woman can do well. Put them there. No battlefield jobs. It's that cut and dried. Very little deployment, way way back behind any so called lines..... no women in the middle east... women and warriors have never mixed for the better.... short of a minute or two here or there... and that's a signifcant sacrifice in the big picture. R and R.

Absolutely not. They want the rewards, they take the risks. If I or my son were to be drafted, we wouldn't get preferential treatment, so why should women?

Equal MEANS Equal.
 

Stanb999

Inactive
There are several issues here:

First I think if they are going to do this they need semi-universal service with both a civilian and a military option; if there are not enough military volunteers then that can be addressed in various ways, but I am not in favor of force marching (literally) real pacifists or those totally unsuited for military life into the military (short of a major defensive war) but a national service option might be viable although it would be expensive.

Second, very few young people will qualify for any sort of service medically if current trends continue; a setting up of "pre-boot camp" (which I notice even the volunteer military is talking about now) would have to be a part of both the military and civilian program; some carrot should be in place for those who take the military option over civilian including better benefits in the future etc.

Third, a forced draft of women faces not only the problem of a military that is still so full of sexual issues that EVERY SINGLE military woman I have ever talked to seriously has a story of her own sexual assault/rape or that of someone she was close to; often by an officer. I am also aware that sometimes women in the ranks can destroy a man's career with false accusations and that is also an issue; but in Saudi, my friends told me women had to go to the bathroom in pairs to avoid rape from fellow soldiers -that HAS to be solved or this won't work.

Finally - The ELEPHANT IN THE LIVING ROOM - PREGNANCY! Drafting women is the quickest way I know of to start a small population boom and reverse the trend towards older mothers. Forcing young women onto birth control or mandating abortions for anyone who gets knocked up while training or of draft age; present social, emotional and theological minefields that I can't see Congress or the military navigating well.

Yep, you could (in theory) either put everyone on birth control (but not all women can take it and it does tend to affect physical readiness in many people, the men's pill was withdrawn for the SAME issues) implants have the same problems and many conservative people believe they are a form of abortion anyway (my opinion doesn't matter here).

You could also (in theory) force all young mothers to give up their babies at birth or force them to hand them over to relatives; again I can't see this working very well, besides if they are in boot-camp or serving with young men more pregnancies are likely.

Yes, the military could punish these women but I don't think public reaction (except in time of serious defensive war) would be favorable; it is human nature not to want to see babies torn from their mother's arms or women punished severely for procreating.

All that said, there are many non-combat jobs that women could easily fill (and many jobs that could be taken back from the private contractors who do them badly) and not all men are suited for combat either but make great support soldiers.

I think the Pentagon may get young women to sign up for the draft, but actually serving is going to be a different matter; come on how many here might help their daughters enlope with their current boyfriend and busy on that grandchild if is was that or go fight in a sandbox in the new "Vietnam," you don't have to post an answer, just be honest with yourself.

Funny I was thinking more along the lines of forced pregnancy. If a draft is really needed. More soldiers will be needed as well. A society losing 1/3, or for america about 100 million would encourage females to conceive.

So few in our pampered existence have a true sense of how the world really is. The human animal is a vicious killer. Nature knows no morals... only survival.
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
The voluntary military is on its way out. and the Pent knows it You think the current generation of snowflakes and texters is going to enlist? I note the Army is now willing to enlist Stoners provided they are not stoned the day they walk into the enlistment office.

One other thing. The day that you think you can pull the covers over your head and ignore the world is gone. Within 10 years or less, there is going to be more than one whacko little country out there that has the ability to devastate us, either nuclear or bioweapon. And one of them just might be whacko enough to try it. And I doubt pulling a 1938 (if you don't bother us, we won't bother you) will do it. As an ethnic Czech, I don't find that policy conducive to a tranquil mind.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
I prefer the Starship Troopers model for citizenship. If you want the right to vote, you have to serve. Male or female.
 

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
Drafting women in the US won't happen in my lifetime: the culture hasn't changed enough to allow for that.

This type of talk comes up at least every other year.
 

Raffy

Veteran Member
They can kiss my goat smelling ass,we got rid of involuntary servitude.

Exactly. All forms of the "draft" are nothing but slavery and/or involuntary servitude. We got rid of that with the 13th Amendment and we fought a so-called Civil War in part over the issue of slavery. Slavery wasn't the only issue in that war, but it was a big one. It now appears we are headed back toward the days of slavery.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
You want equal rights??? Then be freaking equal.
Only 1% of Americans are serving in the military.
Only 7% of living Americans have ever served in the military.
Why the hell should anyone enjoy the luxury and privilege of being an American citizen if they at least didn't register to serve if needed?

Those who don't want to register and put some skin in the game are no better, and no more of an American citizen than a freaking anchor baby born to illegal immigrants. The same ones who wail about illegal immigrants and refugees and anchor babies are strong in their mouths and weak in their courage.
You are just another drain on America like the anchor babies and immigrants you profess to hate. At least some of them do volunteer to go in the military.
I prefer and respect a refugee or an anchor baby who has assimilated into our country and adapted our culture and served in our military more than any so called "natural born American" who is too cowardly to even register to serve our country if needed.

Those who bitch about wars being fought all over the world and blame the soldiers are stupid. Blame the people YOU elected who send the military on fruitless missions. You elect politicians who do the things you hate and you blame others. That is stupid.

Also, during Vietnam, when we had a draft, it suddenly put millions of MEN into having skin in the game. They didn't like it and they protested loudly enough to literally cancel the war. It is only when ALL Americans have skin in the game (including women), that they will do their duty as Americans and enforce their will on the chicken hawk politicians to refrain from senseless wars in the name of money.
Instead today we have less than 1% who serve and the rest of the country are perfectly content to let them spend 20 years fighting the longest war in our history and not winning. Yeah they are freaking burned out, more so than any group who ever fought in any of our wars, while the rest of America continues on with their daily lives.

That whole argument about involuntary servitude is chicken shit. There are some things that being a citizen requires, and it's more than freaking being born here and breathing and running your mouth. These type of people are the reason our country is in the sad freaking position it is today.

My only hope is that war comes to America. To the cities and towns and directly to the families of those who like to run their mouths and never put their asses on the line. Maybe then you will learn, but I think not. Besides it will be too late by then.

Finally all I can say is that if you want equal rights you need to have the courage to shoulder equal responsibilities. Until then, shutup, and know that you are not the equal of those who do.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Stan the "make babies for cannon fodder would come later, the first issue would be avoiding service via pregnancy.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
Stan the "make babies for cannon fodder would come later, the first issue would be avoiding service via pregnancy.

You want to get pregnant to avoid serving, that's fine. Do not get pissed when you don't have the right to vote and those who do vote, decide not to give you welfare money to take care of your little symbol of your cowardice. Life just got a lot harder for you.
 

33dInd

Veteran Member
Oh hell no...........and this from one with a daughter who is an e9 army with 3 bronzes, EIB and a purple heart.
 

33dInd

Veteran Member
and I might add, a chip off the old block and one tuff cookie.
Certainly not a cream puff.
Raised her right.
Son also, Green Beret.........
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
You want to get pregnant to avoid serving, that's fine. Do not get pissed when you don't have the right to vote and those who do vote, decide not to give you welfare money to take care of your little symbol of your cowardice. Life just got a lot harder for you.

That would be one way to handle it, I didn't mean to suggest the problem was totally unsolvable only that it has to be thought about beforehand - again, I can't see the US en mass accepting automatic abortion or even automatic orphanages in these situations; a combination of carrots and sticks would work better especially if civilian service were allowed.

I am 100 percent against a universal military draft (outside of a horrific defensive war on the homeland) because some people are simply not cut out for the military (I'm one of them) or are physically not able to meet the standards (I couldn't have even as a young person) but that doesn't mean most people couldn't serve in a civilian support/community service program.

That has been looking at in the past and almost happened in the 1950's (men only back then) but the costs turned out to be so high the program was dumped; that would be the real fly in the ointment.

Everyone "serving" civilian or military needs to be fed, housed, clothed and provided with basic health care (and coverage for injuries on-the-job) etc, etc; even a basic three hots and a cot tend not to be all that cheap; not to mention issues with wage laws and employer/employee regulations (Congress could change that last one but the courts might still consider it slavery/involuntary servitude unless there ws some compensation involved, even if it was after the time of service was completed).
 

Chance

Veteran Member
Problem is...the Millennials. They are our military age 'men'.

The good ones are probably already in the military ("Meanwhile only 1% of citizens currently volunteer and only 7% have served")

Can't handle anything. Too many helicopter parents, no patriotism, selfish, sissified...

That generation is going to be dead weight for the military.

Well - if our country had required two years service by everyone after high school - that would have been better for the citizens and the country as a whole. But THEY didn't do that. We may regret it!!

And THEY never cleaned up the military so women could serve their country and not be raped, assaulted. That's a HUGE black-eye for the military.
 

Faroe

Un-spun
Screw that.
Foreign wars are banker's wars, and if we get invaded, there will be sufficient volunteers.
NO one should have to sign up for the draft.
Citizens are not slaves - we already contribute more than enough by paying taxes.
WHEN is enough, enough??
 
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