CORP/BIZ National coin shortage ?
- Thread starter Baja SS
- Start date
bcingu
Senior Member
Just a note about your change jugs. Please do not take them to a coin machine or bank to turn in before you go through them. ANY DIME, QUATER, HALF OR SILVER DOLLAR BEFORE 1965 IS 90% SILVER.
WHO CARES YOU ASK?
$1.40 in dimes is one oz, $1.50 in quarters is one oz, $1.50 half dollars is one oz.
So for $1.40 in pre 65 dimes you can sell them for $17.84 as of 01:27 6/30/2020.
You can quickly amass a large amount of cash by checking just the date.
Countrymouse
Country exile in the city
Happening here in GA.
A Quik-Trip NE of Atlanta couldn't give and WOULD NOT TAKE change---
they said "they're not making it anymore" (JUST LIKE THAT GUY SAY IN THE VISION) ---
said the Mint wasn't making coins because of Covid.
Since the process is MOSTLY mechanized---I ain't buying it (pun fully intended)
This is a Marxist/Globalist revolution we're seeing with the violence--it's gone FAR beyond "black vs white"
This is a Globalist attempt to hijack our election and OUR ECONOMY
We will soon see abolition of ALL cash (probably using Covid as the "excuse"---the money's not "safe") and the cashless, digital, fully-TRACEABLE, fully- CONTROLLABLE economy comes into being....
"no man might buy or sell, UNLESS....."
We're getting there.
Hognutz
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Way ahead of ya! I actually got a silver dime about a month ago...
For what it's worth I think the Federal Reserve keeps a stockpile of coins for disasters the same way they warehouse physical currency. I believe the U.S. Mint delivers the coins into the safekeeping of the regional Fed banks and I assume the regional Fed bank either keeps it themselves or contracts out the storage. So it's not entirely like the coins in circulation are it until the U.S. Mint can make more, but rather it's probably more a matter of the Federal Reserve deciding it's time to release the stored coins.
bcingu
Senior Member
20Gauge
TB Fanatic
The insurance is related to the risks involved with handling cash.....so their own insurance is higher.....I know funny, but in a lot of cases that is the reason for not handling cash.
In our case, cash or check is better as we save about 3% in fees.
mbabulldog
Inactive
my business orders $20k-$30k a week in coin; we haven't had any problems with fulfillment.
Charmer153
Contributing Member
I was in town yesterday, and I heard a couple talking about this at Walmart. (I know, stay away from China-mart. buy American.... I do when I can, but most of time I don't have that option. there are no other stores within 2 hours drive where I can get what I need and I do not have a car).
I made the comment that if the coin shortage continues, someday, someone. may end up paying $2.00 for a $0.99 drink($1.08 after taxes). They pay 2 dollars and get nothing back, since there is no more coins. it will then be like that part on Wheel of Fortune, try to get as close to a dollar, without going over.
I was joking, till one of them said that a few stores in the cities are already like that. My laugh died instantly.
I made the comment that if the coin shortage continues, someday, someone. may end up paying $2.00 for a $0.99 drink($1.08 after taxes). They pay 2 dollars and get nothing back, since there is no more coins. it will then be like that part on Wheel of Fortune, try to get as close to a dollar, without going over.
I was joking, till one of them said that a few stores in the cities are already like that. My laugh died instantly.
MinnesotaSmith
Membership Revoked
NW Fl Walmart too.
Quiet Man
Nothing unreal exists
Here's a perspective that the Fed is causing the coin shortage.
What's Behind the Fed's Manufactured Coin Shortage?
10 minutes
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHBrEtudJLM
Bottom line: The Fed is hoarding coin and has dramatically reduced the amount that it releases to banks. An interesting point is that Coin is an Asset on the Fed balance sheet, whereas Cash is a Liability.
What's Behind the Fed's Manufactured Coin Shortage?
10 minutes
Bottom line: The Fed is hoarding coin and has dramatically reduced the amount that it releases to banks. An interesting point is that Coin is an Asset on the Fed balance sheet, whereas Cash is a Liability.
West
Senior
Digits in bank accounts is a liability today for most sole proprietors business accounts.
Every year we try to have little monies in the business account because what we have in there is considered income at the end of the year.
How stupid is that, we live in a day of age that we get penalized for carrying a high balance.
Yes I could become a corporation then it would not be like that. But that would also mean that I would have to get a FEINumber and start paying all of the mandated payroll liabilities on my draws. Costing hundreds of extra dollars a year.
A cost we can't afford when my actual income in less than $15k a year for two people.
Penalized for being independent. And soon put out of all businesses because we are not a corporation.
BTDT btw.
Every year we try to have little monies in the business account because what we have in there is considered income at the end of the year.
How stupid is that, we live in a day of age that we get penalized for carrying a high balance.
Yes I could become a corporation then it would not be like that. But that would also mean that I would have to get a FEINumber and start paying all of the mandated payroll liabilities on my draws. Costing hundreds of extra dollars a year.
A cost we can't afford when my actual income in less than $15k a year for two people.
Penalized for being independent. And soon put out of all businesses because we are not a corporation.
BTDT btw.
BeeMan
Just buzzin along
And it was mid-1982 where the copper content changed.
Some of the 1982 pennies were ~95% copper, most were ~95% zinc.
Many eons ago, when I was a kid, if “we” swallowed a penny, no big deal, “it’ll pass”; now days swallowing a “zinc” penny can lead to zinc poisoning.
Nickel’s are the only US coin that has more “metal value” in it than “face value” of the coin.
Most all nickels, not WWII nickels, are 75% copper and 25% nickel.
Side note: Some Canadian nickel were 99% nickel, and are magnetic. The copper alloyed in the US nickels results in them being non-magnetic.
Trivium Pursuit
Has No Life - Lives on TB
At the Marriott in OK, I can get rolls of quarters to do my laundry with all day long...
Quiet Man
Nothing unreal exists
The video addressed the Who, and, to a limited degree, the Why, but it did not address the question Why Now?
My thought is that the answer lies in the fact the if the currency is Reset, the Coin will increase in 'value' greatly (compared to the dollar) because it will still have the same Face Value. I posted more detail earlier here: CORP/BIZ - Home depot coin shortage
My thought is that the answer lies in the fact the if the currency is Reset, the Coin will increase in 'value' greatly (compared to the dollar) because it will still have the same Face Value. I posted more detail earlier here: CORP/BIZ - Home depot coin shortage
BeeMan
Just buzzin along
Because someone there knows not to send them to the bank because they can’t get them back.
Or, it’s just less work to not send them to the bank in the first place.
But then, I’m a glass half empty kinda guy.
As far as I know for the zinc to poison an adult it would take multiple zinc pennies with the zinc exposed. If you can pass a zinc penny before the copper coating is breached then you'd probably be alright. But it takes a lot less to poison a child or a pet, maybe just a single zinc penny with the zinc exposed.
Nickels are not worth more for their melt value than their face value. That hasn't been true for a few years now. By my calculations, as of Friday's close on Kitco's base metal site a nickel is currently worth $0.0427 for its melt value (Coinflation is apparently still using base metal prices from Dec. 2019, otherwise I'd just quote them). Copper pennies (pre-1982) are, however, still worth more than their face value ($0.0196 each). Of course, it's illegal to melt down US coins for their metal content, so the question is actually just academic at this point.
Samuel Adams
Has No Life - Lives on TB
It’s not a shortage.
Recall.
Quiet confiscation.
Insult.
But not a shortage.
Recall.
Quiet confiscation.
Insult.
But not a shortage.
The US Mint is still making deliveries of brand spanking newly minted coins to the twelve Federal Reserve districts, although I can really only speak to what I've seen here in Portland, Oregon. That's easily confirmed by checking the dates on your shiniest and therefore mostly likely newest coins. If it's all a conspiracy to force everyone to go digital then the ongoing deliveries make no sense at all.
Quiet Man
Nothing unreal exists
The video (post #92) confirms this, and, apparently, the US Mint is producing Coin faster than ever before.
Apparently the Fed receives the Coin from the Mint and distributes it to the individual banks. The problem seems to be that the Fed has greatly restricted the flow of Coin to the Banks, and is hoarding them instead.
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TKO
Veteran Member
I heard this corn shortage crap at a local store. However, I went to my bank later in the day. The bank lady told me they have all the coins you'd ever want in life. They don't have a shortage. So, something more seedy is unfolding here with this coin shortage.
20Gauge
TB Fanatic
Our local Walmart moved the coinstar next to the customer service department. So now whenever someone steps up to the machine, the CS people talk them into using Walmart instead. They offer back 100% where the coinstar is like 93%.
That is how they have been able to maintain their coin stocks.
Some one is on the ball....lol
That is how they have been able to maintain their coin stocks.
Some one is on the ball....lol
You are incorrect. The flaw in your premise is that the metal itself has value. These days, it has no more value than paper money. Back when real silver and gold were used for coins, then yes, absolutely. But not today.
Steel Chips
Veteran Member
That's a funny question to me; money has been sh!t stained for thousands of years, covered in virus, bacteria, mold, mildew, fungus, and "all kinds of mean nasty ugly things".
Quiet Man
Nothing unreal exists
That is not my premise. It is: The coin will still have the same 'Face Value' in fiat currency terms, whereas a dollar will no longer have it's previous marked face value. An 'old' dollar' may now be valued at $0.01 (i.e. 1 new dollar replaces 100 old dollars), but a nickel is still $0.05 in 'new' dollars.
You're assuming that coinage wouldn't be "recalled" for new issue if FRNs were. I don't agree with that either. But even if true, one could have a million $'s in FRNs in their closet, but NOT a million $'s in coins. You'd need a 10,000 sq ft vault.
teedee
Veteran Member
I had a friend in Poland and they revalued their money. They changed the paper money by removing 3 zeros. They did nothing to the coins which were not precious metals. This was in the 1990's. I still have a 1000 zloty bill in my shop. It was worth something like .05 cents.
Quiet Man
Nothing unreal exists
What I said is, in itself, correct. I cannot speak to whether or not coin would be recalled. My view is that it's impractical and unlikely, but who knows. We don't know why the Fed is hoarding it. They could be doing it for themselves because they know that it's impractical to recall coin, or they could be the agent of doing a recall at some point and are getting started early.
If they do somehow recall coin, you're no worse off. If they do not, then coin retains the original Face Value unlike the old dollars. That looks like a big win (or, perhaps more accurately, not the big loss that dollars are). If old 'dollars' are devalued 1:100, the coins preserve 100X value compared to old dollars. That's a lot.
I didn't say to convert your life savings into coin. It's just one consideration (of many).
And roughly how many dollars worth of coinage to you have currently? How much are you planning to have ultimately? Enough to pay rent with for 10 years? Enough to buy food for 5?
ETA: Let's play a game. Suppose all paper money is recalled. The new Currency unit is the "Drachma". (That's an actual Greek currency, but the name rolls off the tongue so I'll use it.) Fine. It now takes 1000 US dollars to get one Drachma. You think that somehow your four quarters are going to magically be worth one Drachma? NO. They'll be worth ONE DOLLAR. Thus, you'll still need 4000 quarters to get that Drachma note.
There is NO value in coinage AT ALL. If the government sets the value (and they will), no one in a black market situation is going to give you more than face value for them. Silver yes. Gold yes. Tin? Not so much.
ETA: Let's play a game. Suppose all paper money is recalled. The new Currency unit is the "Drachma". (That's an actual Greek currency, but the name rolls off the tongue so I'll use it.) Fine. It now takes 1000 US dollars to get one Drachma. You think that somehow your four quarters are going to magically be worth one Drachma? NO. They'll be worth ONE DOLLAR. Thus, you'll still need 4000 quarters to get that Drachma note.
There is NO value in coinage AT ALL. If the government sets the value (and they will), no one in a black market situation is going to give you more than face value for them. Silver yes. Gold yes. Tin? Not so much.
And that's fine.
Back before Y2K, there was someone out there named Joseph Almond. He was SO SURE there would be mass starvation after rollover that he spent vast amounts of money and filled an entire warehouse with bulk food, to barter/sell to the masses of desperate people. Then rollover came. He was never heard from again.
He was pursuing a "potential opportunity" as well.
Choose your opportunities wisely. And don't try to buck human nature. You'll lose every time.
Back before Y2K, there was someone out there named Joseph Almond. He was SO SURE there would be mass starvation after rollover that he spent vast amounts of money and filled an entire warehouse with bulk food, to barter/sell to the masses of desperate people. Then rollover came. He was never heard from again.
He was pursuing a "potential opportunity" as well.
Choose your opportunities wisely. And don't try to buck human nature. You'll lose every time.
Quiet Man
Nothing unreal exists
The 'new' fiat will almost certainly still be called 'dollars' and be made to appear to as much like old dollars as they can. That's likely how they will play the game.
As always.
Quiet Man
Nothing unreal exists
Example: Say you have $2,000 prior to a dollar devaluation. You keep $1,000 as dollars, and you convert the other half to $1,000 in nickels.
Then, let's say they devalue the dollar and give you one new dollar for each 100 old dollars. Afterward these assets are worth the following in new dollars:
I am not advocating anyone do this, but I suspect that Kyle Bass purchased $1,000,000 in nickels for multiple reasons that include the above.
Then, let's say they devalue the dollar and give you one new dollar for each 100 old dollars. Afterward these assets are worth the following in new dollars:
- The $1,000 old dollars: $10 new dollars
- The $1,000 in nickels: $1,000 new dollars
I am not advocating anyone do this, but I suspect that Kyle Bass purchased $1,000,000 in nickels for multiple reasons that include the above.
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The $1,000 in nickels: $1,000 new dollars
This is your assumption - that the government would allow that. My position is that they would not. And even if they did, 20,000 nickels (20 to the dollar x 1000) would be a bitch to store. And a MEANINGFUL amount of coinage - that is, an amount that you could actually convert and live off of for a considerable period, well, like I said, you'd need a helluva vault.
This is your assumption - that the government would allow that. My position is that they would not. And even if they did, 20,000 nickels (20 to the dollar x 1000) would be a bitch to store. And a MEANINGFUL amount of coinage - that is, an amount that you could actually convert and live off of for a considerable period, well, like I said, you'd need a helluva vault.
Quiet Man
Nothing unreal exists
Agree. We are both making assumptions. Can't be helped.
You said it. That's my point. Individuals would have to decide if the storage is worth the trouble.
The vast overwhelming majority of monetary reforms in the world in the 20th century issued both new currency and new coins. I have a bookshelf full of reference books on the subject of coins and currency, so I have some research experience in making that statement. Why would the US go against the grain of the rest of world history in its own monetary reform (where entirely new currency is issued)? Thinking the US would keep its old coins sounds to me a lot more like a fond wish fulfillment than historical fact.
For example, here's what my reference book says about Poland's monetary reform (referenced by teedee above): "As far back as 1990 production was initiated for the new 1 Grosz-1 Zlotych coins for a forthcoming monetary reform. It wasn't announced until the Act of July 7, 1994 and was enacted on January 1, 1995." So in fact that monetary reform did mint new coins and therefore falls into my "vast overwhelming majority of monetary reforms in the world" statement.
For example, here's what my reference book says about Poland's monetary reform (referenced by teedee above): "As far back as 1990 production was initiated for the new 1 Grosz-1 Zlotych coins for a forthcoming monetary reform. It wasn't announced until the Act of July 7, 1994 and was enacted on January 1, 1995." So in fact that monetary reform did mint new coins and therefore falls into my "vast overwhelming majority of monetary reforms in the world" statement.
Quiet Man
Nothing unreal exists
That's very interesting. Thank you for passing this along. Recalling and re-minting sufficient coin in a reasonable period of time must be a herculean effort and well planned ahead.