energy_wave
TB Fanatic
It's in the extra fine print. Right next to where it says may cause blurred vision.
CRIME MA: Mom accused of sending her husband on an errand so she could kill her 3 kids before paralyzing herself by jumping out a window, appears in court
- Thread starter Mzkitty
- Start date
bracketquant
Has No Life - Lives on TB
This is/was o
bracketquant
Has No Life - Lives on TB
This is/was one messed up state (Massachusetts).
Many years ago, there was a program where parents received extra state benefits for having their children go on psychotropic drugs. Some of these children were perfectly healthy, but the parents wanted the extra money, so they applied for the program. The only thing good about it all, is that while they took the money, no parent actually admitted that they gave their healthy child the drugs
Many years ago, there was a program where parents received extra state benefits for having their children go on psychotropic drugs. Some of these children were perfectly healthy, but the parents wanted the extra money, so they applied for the program. The only thing good about it all, is that while they took the money, no parent actually admitted that they gave their healthy child the drugs
I went to catholic schools...it's amazing that it didn't happen.
Blacknarwhal
Three-Time Trump Voter
A particularly good question these days. How many caring husbands can get that kind of time off? If they can, are they next on the layoff block? Sudden unemployment won't help Mom and baby much.
Babs
Veteran Member
I watched a good portion of this trial. By everyone's account, Lindsay was an incredible mother. Her relatives, in-laws, friends, co-workers & even the father of her children said that she was a very loving and wonderful mother. Her life long friends stated that all Lindsay ever wanted was to be a mother. I just cannot wrap my mind around how a mother goes from very loving and dedicated, to murdering her beautiful children, that she dearly loved. Something was very wrong.
I am of the opinion that these psych meds are doing much more harm in our society than good. Look at how many mass murders, over the past 2 decades, have been committed by people on psych meds. There are people who hold the opinion and numerous articles have been written about these medications opening one up to demonic influence. I think I agree.
This case is so dark and so incredibly heartbreaking. No wonder they have to keep this woman on constant suicide watch. She cannot live with what she has done.
I am of the opinion that these psych meds are doing much more harm in our society than good. Look at how many mass murders, over the past 2 decades, have been committed by people on psych meds. There are people who hold the opinion and numerous articles have been written about these medications opening one up to demonic influence. I think I agree.
This case is so dark and so incredibly heartbreaking. No wonder they have to keep this woman on constant suicide watch. She cannot live with what she has done.
I'm reluctant to say it because I know the viewpoint isn't a popular one but Pharmakeia is Sorcery. Demonic entities gain access to people through some of these drugs and influence them to commit these evil deeds. It's hard for most people to see it but when they say they hear voices it's often real. These entities are real.
How else can you really explain a mother whose instincts are to love and protect her kids at all costs ends up being the one who kills them.
Enough said.
How else can you really explain a mother whose instincts are to love and protect her kids at all costs ends up being the one who kills them.
Enough said.
West
Senior
Agree.
And they should let her kill herself at this point.
The demons will be happy, and God may forgive her.
CTFIREBATTCHIEF
Has No Life - Lives on TB
there is something about that blonde chaplain that doesn't seem quite right to me, the one who testified yesterday
By the time there are ten kids, the older ones are taking a big part of the burden. I do specifically remember two Catholic ladies (and I'm NOT bashing Catholics) who ended up having to "go away to rest" after the third or fourth baby. As kids, we heard the whispers....and we obviously knew thst suddenly, "Aunt Mary" (or grandma) was staying at the house to keep things going so Dad could work. But it wasn't until years later we understood what stuff like "sanitarium" and "shock therapy" meant...
Most of the Catholic women in our neighborhood developed a sudden need for a hysterectomy after the 4th or 5th baby. There wasn't anything *physical* wrong. But they all went to the same OB practice, and the doctors were very understanding and accommodating when a overwhelmed woman would break down and cry, saying she didn't know how she was going to keep up with everything, and how terrified she was that she'd get pregnant again.
I heard more about this because my parents were the only agnostic in the neighborhood, and Mom ended up being a shoulder to cry on at the regular morning coffee klatches (apparently, with a bit of high proof "attitude helper" added many mornings). I suspect it was partly because she was completely non-judgemental about them sobbing about a new pregnancy.
The Amish in our community were and are absolutely hard-core against ANY "family planning". The average family size in that community is 10 kids...I knew several families who had 14, and a couple (where the man had remarried after the death of the first wife) with 17 and 19.
No matter how broke they were, even as young couples just starting out, they *always* found a way to pay a "hired girl" (usually a mid-teens sister of one of the couple) to live with them for the first month (at least) after a baby was born. Mom was expected to physically rest...staying in bed with the baby at least the first week.
In the hardest years (when there was 3 or 4 kids not old enough for school), the hired girl might stay for 6 months.
AND, in the families we were closest to, Dad took an active role, even though he was working 14-16 hours a day on the farm or running the shop that supported him. He might cook breakfast while the hired girl was changing diapers and getting little ones dressed. Or he'd take the older ones (who could walk) out to the barn with him for a couple hours.
The sweetest story I remember was our closest neighbor... they had had 5 boys in a row (there were two older girls), and Emma was absolutely convinced this new one was also going to be a boy. Well, surprise! She had twin girls. And Daniel, her husband, stayed up all night cutting, pleating and sewing two tiny Kapps for the little ones, so they would have proper head covers!
He shyly showed one to me, obviously very proud of himself for managing...I doubt he'd ever run the treadle sewing machine before, unless it was to adjust it for his wife.
But even with that level of support, I know of three major "nervous breakdowns" in the community... one a man, whose wife had three sets of twins in 3 years. The third set had just come home after 6 months in the ICU...they had weighed 1# 12 oz and 2#1oz at birth.
And he just broke down....became catatonic, refused to eat or communicate. He spent about 6 months in the local psychiatric hospital.
The other two were women, both under 6 months postpartum, with several other little ones at home. I don't know what symptoms they displayed (they weren't close neighbors like the poor dad of 7 kids under the age of 5!), but they also needed several months of rest and treatment.
My point being, mental breakdowns can happen to anyone. And the hormones of pregnancy and the first postpartum year can truly be crazy making.
But, in one last reference to the OP...putting someone on a dozen psychiatric meds is NOT a "fix"!
Summerthyme
cetansa
Senior Member
FMLA gives benefits not to just the mother. Fathers can get the time if they apply for it. IIRC up to 12 weeks.
Blacknarwhal
Three-Time Trump Voter
And they're required by law to give it.
And then, when you come back, you're next up for layoff because your "position is being surplussed." It's not at ALL retaliatory!...that you'll ever be able to prove.
JMG91
Veteran Member
^^This. And if you combine PPD with the side effects of 13 different drugs--Good Lord, this woman never stood a chance! I'm currently watching what ONE SINGLE pharmaceutical has done to my mother--who didn't have PPD as an appetizer--and it's devastating.
JMG91
Veteran Member
Yup. DM was raised in a large Catholic family. My grandmother eventually couldn't take it anymore and tried to kill herself. She had to be committed afterwards, obviously. My grandmother was from the silent generation; they learned growing up that you don't talk about family problems outside of the home.
We live in a society now where everyone is overly-connected through technology, but we are all totally isolated. I keep seeing a lot of comments in various places about this case along the lines of, "Women have been doing this forever, I don't remember women in the old days having these problems." That's because it was considered an embarrassment and was hushed up. We lack the connection that made how communities functioned throughout much of world history work. American independence is great--until it isn't. We've convinced ourselves that we can do it all! That the way our ancestors came together in tight-knit communities to support themselves isn't necessary for us anymore! We're finding out now that, that simply isn't true.
kyrsyan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
This speaks as much to how those systems are not working... which no one wants to admit. Reality, she had all the help, more than most people even dream of, and none of it worked worth a damn. And that absolutely guts the argument that having care available would stop something like this.
Chance
Veteran Member
I'm wondering why her husband and mother didn't remove the kids from the house for a while when she told them she had thoughts of harming the kids. This was about a month before she killed them. She wasn't secretive at all about what was going on in her head. They knew! Denial? Inconvenient? ??
And why did this father, upon finding the kids, say "she killed the f**ing kids"? What good father would call his dead kids f**ing kids?
A lot messed up here, for sure.
And why did this father, upon finding the kids, say "she killed the f**ing kids"? What good father would call his dead kids f**ing kids?
A lot messed up here, for sure.
King Samson
I'm Here
Exactly what I've been thinking..
The people around her could almost be considered accomplices, as they didn't separate the kids from her, knowing she was having major issues.
vector7
Dot Collector
I can’t be the only one who sees this when I watch the women at the Stand In Peace for Lindsay gathering.
There’s something deeply disturbing about this.
RT 30secs
View: https://twitter.com/MBoukersen/status/2090504762680574233
There’s something deeply disturbing about this.
RT 30secs
View: https://twitter.com/MBoukersen/status/2090504762680574233
Blacknarwhal
Three-Time Trump Voter
That...that part really isn't out of line. That's probably a lot more shock and anger than it is an assessment of the kids' quality.
I wonder if it would have mattered in the long run.
And don’t be so quick on the “too many pills” idea. You have to listen to the testimony of the original number of pills prescribed and how many were remaining in the bottle. She wasn’t taking ALL those drugs at the same time. It’s tedious. Personally, I think she’s a freaking non-walking psychopath.
JMG91
Veteran Member
He was having a trauma response, not referring to his kids specifically that way. I'm not surprised that the kids weren't removed. As you said, denial; it's a powerful de-motivator. No one wants to believe that their spouse would actually harm their children, and as a man, admitting to such may have made him feel like he was failing his family. Better to bury his head in the sand and pretend it's not really that bad. The husband may have an avoidant personality type; that would explain a lot.
JMG91
Veteran Member
And if she knew how bad off she was, but knew that no one would actually take the kids off her hands, she may have felt completely trapped and the psych meds eventually drove her over the edge.
JMG91
Veteran Member
That doesn't matter though. Once you've got that crap in your system, it can stay in your cells. My DM is having a complete physical breakdown right now--a relapse--due to poisoning from a fluoroquinolone she took FOUR YEARS AGO. If this woman took each one in turn, each drug stayed in her system, and they built up cumulatively, one on top of the other.
Hognutz
TB Fanatic
It's worse than that. I don't know *what* meds they had her on, but most psych meds fairly rapidly cause physical dependence as well as chemical changes in the brain. Taking them sporadically, or discontinuing one or more abruptly, can CAUSE psychosis.
Summerthyme
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She had scripts for benzodiazepines (I believe Xanax) and then IIRC she said she didn’t want to become dependent on benzodiazepines and then they switched to Valium BUT she also had a script for Seroquel for sleep (she had allegedly crushed 3 Seroquel and consumed them prior to the murders and IF she took them they then caused a cascade that, along with her spinal injuries, caused her hypothermia which lead to her cardiac arrest and so on.
All those are “bad drugs” in my book. I believe there was also a mention of ambien somewhere in there, but if she was prescribed that and took it, it was WAY before they prescribed the seroquel.
Was she treated correctly? I would argue that she was based upon what they brought out in the trial. The prescription timeline and how she did or did not take any prescription medications is the question in my mind.
She is/was a RN. Granted, she worked mostly in L&D, but, she had enough knowledge to research those drugs and had probably given some of those drugs and should have known better than to FAFO. Now did she care at the end? We don’t know. In fact, we will never know. But she damned well knew to document every med/dosage/date and time taken in a notebook she kept in the kitchen.
I still think she is a psychopath or has psychopathic tendencies, but that’s my opinion from watching her in the courtroom and hearing the psychiatrist testimony. It’s hard to tell, and I am not a psychiatrist, but have worked in psych enough to understand that these people can fool you big time, and at least until I see the Netflix documentary (j/k) that’s where I am with this right now.
The problem I have with blaming it on medications is that those scripts were spread out over about a six month period. Some she took, some she tried to take and couldn’t/didn’t for whatever reason. Others she did take as scheduled and frankly, I didn’t see anything out of line with what she was prescribed. She was supposed to be on 4 drugs when this happened. Which she had documented in her notebook. She didn’t even take all those as prescribed so I just can’t get behind “the drugs made her do it theory”.
Now, she still had a ton of pills around the house (some were found in her husbands car like he was trying to keep her from taking them. From what I understand, they would have been some that were older. Someone FINALLY found the plastic bag with some additional bottles in her nightstand drawer (her attorney took possession of one of those two stashes and gave them to the cops after a few days.) So THAT has my wind up because the attorney had no business with them. They should have been left where they were, cops called so they had chain of custody. But no, the attorney gets them.
Anyway, it will all come out in the wash. The kids are gone, the families are wrecked and there’s nothing to be done about that. But she has to live with it until she kicks.
Fairwillows
Where I am supposed to be.
Wow. I didn't realize this happened in 2023!
Ok, food for thought: (don't shoot the messenger, right?)
And then we have:
Um, gee, they are both in Costa Rica at the same time??? after the murder???
yeah, traveling alone......ok!
Dayum, everybody be cashing in on this:
May the Holy Spirit reveal the truth! All of it!
Ok, food for thought: (don't shoot the messenger, right?)
And then we have:
Um, gee, they are both in Costa Rica at the same time??? after the murder???
yeah, traveling alone......ok!
Dayum, everybody be cashing in on this:
May the Holy Spirit reveal the truth! All of it!
Squib
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I don’t know if enough is said…
Boiled down, what you’ve said is basically a ‘The devil made me do it!’ Defense.
“How else can we explain…” you ask? Humans are capable of such evil it is astonishing.
Were the meds a factor? Maybe, but the booze is a factor in DUI deaths too…we don’t know but that that ‘poor drunk guy that killed a family last Saturday night wasn’t having some problems…’
Maybe he was, but he still killed…just like this gal did…
Blaming hormones can never be a defense…otherwise, are those perverted Muslims right when they rape and say, “it was sexual emergency?”
Absolutely not! Personal responsibility…we can give a reason why some thing happened without it excusing a crime and we have to be just…
This isn’t a ‘girls against the boys’ thing…read some of the crazy comments of feminists making it into this.
Anyway, may God have mercy on those kids.
Flame on!
ChicagoMan74
officially...FATIGUED
The "but she was such a good girl" interviews with some of her friends, most of which either had a nose ring, faux lashes, or crazy eyes give me a major "she's a psycho that needs to be put away" vibe.
Plus this is Taxachusetts, home of the Masshole people who drive like their from Jersey and scream at sky with a Bostonian accent; thats a problem unto itself.
Plus this is Taxachusetts, home of the Masshole people who drive like their from Jersey and scream at sky with a Bostonian accent; thats a problem unto itself.
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changed
Preferred pronouns: dude/bro
So you noticed that too?