Signwatcher
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Oh come on! Obama broke that glass ceiling. It doesn't matter where anyone is born anymore! Facts are unimportant.
Looks like VP Harris has citizenship problems
- Thread starter Jonas Parker
- Start date
Make way for Nancy!
naegling62
Veteran Member
Nobody will care. The SCOTUS doesn't even care if the election was stolen.
Chicken Mama
Veteran Member
I'm quite sure she's been double-tapped repeatedly.
Yes she is.
US doesn't give a shit if Jamaca feels she's a citizen of that country.
Been through this crap before when I got a Gov Job just out of HS. It went all the way to DC
and back down they said ignore the other country, you are a US citizen.
This was from back in 1972.
Now I see we are dragging the Anchor baby crap, thought that was resolved already.
Amazing! Not this shit again 
If people can argue about the intent of the authors of a US document written a little over 200 years ago, just imagine how damn well crazy they can get arguing about something written almost 2000 years ago in languages 99% of them can't understand and where we no longer have the original.
If people can argue about the intent of the authors of a US document written a little over 200 years ago, just imagine how damn well crazy they can get arguing about something written almost 2000 years ago in languages 99% of them can't understand and where we no longer have the original.
packyderms_wife
Neither here nor there.
This may be a ruse to keep Cruz from ramming for potus.
Guns-N-Moses
Senior Member
With all due respect, Kamala Harris may be a U.S. Citizen, but is absolutely not a "Natural Born Citizen", which is a requirement / prerequisite for President per the Constitution (and I do believe that a V.P. must meet the same requirements as President).
But as others have mentioned, Obama's election ignored this rule (unless his father was not (actually) Barack Obama Senior / and was an actual US citizen).
Contrary to what you might think, Obama's mother's citizenship was not sufficient: Per the Constitution, it requires citizenship of both parents, (otherwise the candidate could have split loyalties).
All through my scholastic & college years (>50 years), I was taught that a Natural Born Citizen was ALWAYS a person born of TWO CITIZEN PARENTS AT THE TIME OF BIRTH.
Not one - Two!!.
Many websites are now trying to redefine this but if you read the Constitution and other writings of the time (i.e. de Vattel for example) you will see why the framers wanted the candidates to have loyalty to our (one) country - not two.
Let's read the article: “No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States
Lets forget about the age requirements for a moment; notice how the authors of the article exempted themselves because many of them were not natural born citizens at the time the article was adopted (Parents were born in England). If specific Citizenship wasn't an issue, why would they have mentioned this? In other words, if mere (just being a) Citizen was sufficient, they wouldn't have included this clause.
I've read where other amendments superseded this clause, but when it comes to the election of the President, it does not apply to this provision (otherwise, it would say so).
Like many, I know that Biden was never expected to fulfill his term. We're all expecting Kamala to take the reigns soon. But us Patriots should not allow this. But with so much corruption, what can be done?
But as others have mentioned, Obama's election ignored this rule (unless his father was not (actually) Barack Obama Senior / and was an actual US citizen).
Contrary to what you might think, Obama's mother's citizenship was not sufficient: Per the Constitution, it requires citizenship of both parents, (otherwise the candidate could have split loyalties).
All through my scholastic & college years (>50 years), I was taught that a Natural Born Citizen was ALWAYS a person born of TWO CITIZEN PARENTS AT THE TIME OF BIRTH.
Not one - Two!!.
Many websites are now trying to redefine this but if you read the Constitution and other writings of the time (i.e. de Vattel for example) you will see why the framers wanted the candidates to have loyalty to our (one) country - not two.
Let's read the article: “No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States
Lets forget about the age requirements for a moment; notice how the authors of the article exempted themselves because many of them were not natural born citizens at the time the article was adopted (Parents were born in England). If specific Citizenship wasn't an issue, why would they have mentioned this? In other words, if mere (just being a) Citizen was sufficient, they wouldn't have included this clause.
I've read where other amendments superseded this clause, but when it comes to the election of the President, it does not apply to this provision (otherwise, it would say so).
Like many, I know that Biden was never expected to fulfill his term. We're all expecting Kamala to take the reigns soon. But us Patriots should not allow this. But with so much corruption, what can be done?
mistaken1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Zhou Bai Den grew up in China?
Melodi
Disaster Cat
Yes, she is a Natural Born citizen, now Cruz really does have a very murky citizenship history and that could come up (and again might go to the Supreme Court).
The only way she would not be a Natural Born Citizen would be if her parents were diplomats (there might be one or two other exceptions but that is the most common one).
Otherwise, get born in the US and you are a Natural Born Citizen, be born overseas and it gets a lot more complicated or like John McCain, maybe you were born on the side of the road going to the military hospital so maybe you are or maybe you are not? Congress decided he could run, it should have gone to the Supreme Court because this needs to be sorted.
And Dennis is correct, I had English Language students who spoke no English and had lived all their lives overseas until their parents sent them to America clutching their US Passports because they were born when their parents were students in the US.
The only way she would not be a Natural Born Citizen would be if her parents were diplomats (there might be one or two other exceptions but that is the most common one).
Otherwise, get born in the US and you are a Natural Born Citizen, be born overseas and it gets a lot more complicated or like John McCain, maybe you were born on the side of the road going to the military hospital so maybe you are or maybe you are not? Congress decided he could run, it should have gone to the Supreme Court because this needs to be sorted.
And Dennis is correct, I had English Language students who spoke no English and had lived all their lives overseas until their parents sent them to America clutching their US Passports because they were born when their parents were students in the US.
Um, no. Kameltoe didn't “stick.” She dropped out before the first round of voting. Yet, here she is, one dead brain cell from the Oval Office.
Yup. I’m just going to start moving these threads. This conversation will now rise weekly, I’m betting.
No
It needs to be elevated on the national stage to a loud roar.
Just like all the crap they threw at Trump.
Got 1A?
BUBBAHOTEPT
Veteran Member
The Almighty Supreme Court rule on something IMPORTANT!!! Now that is a Hoot! THEY stole the election. THEY can do anything they want, SHE, will be the next President...
And still, who the hell really knows where Satoro was born.
pinkelsteinsmom
Veteran Member
With all due respect, this falsehood which was cussed and discussed adnauseum during the ohole debauching of america is why we are in such deep kimchee today. The lie of anything that falls from any hole and drops on american soil is a natural born citizen is proof americans are gullible and easily deceived.
The illegal alien, kweer, drug addict, muzzie with a man for a purported wife and two rented kids has set the standard for our dear leaders going forward; therefore, the america hating harlot will be installed.
Frankly, ignorant america deserves what she is about to get.
Even if it makes conservatives look stupid and drives a lot of voters to the other side???
Yeah, that's a sure recipe for winning an election (NOT), but who cares if it makes a few emotional people feel good.
Face it. 75% of the people in the US are convinced that being a citizen at birth should meet the requirement for being President. Whether it was interpreted that way or not back in the 1700s doesn't mean a damn to most people, because being a citizen at birth is what "natural born" means to most people today.
Spend all your time fixated on a non issue and lose more elections.
Harris has got so many other things wrong with her that fixating on that issue is counter-productive.
I completely disagree. The citizenship issue is EXACTLY like the 9-11 “truther” movement. No new facts ever come out, but they rehash the same crap over and over and over and....
First of all, it's not commie crap. Everything you don't like you call commie crap.
The majority of Americans think natural born means citizen at birth.
A minority of people arguing that point ad infinitum isn't going to change that.
It will just isolate you more from the majority who are sick of the political bickering of both sides.
Picking that hill to fight your battle on, means you lose the election.
There are plenty of real issues that can be used against her and Biden.
Agreed, by the "current" definition. That's why this crap gets so old.
intothatgoodnight
. . .
Absolutely correct.
Read Guns-N-Moses' previous post regarding the Constitutional citizen status requirements for becoming President.
Looks like VP Harris has citizenship problems
Oh come on! Obama broke that glass ceiling. It doesn't matter where anyone is born anymore! Facts are unimportant.
intothegoodnight
intothatgoodnight
. . .
"Camel nose under the tent" comes to mind.
Your oath to "protect the Constitution," remember that?
Using the logic you are purporting, every single anchor baby with non-citizen parent(s) would become eligible for running as a Presidential candidate.
Part of the solution lies with both the DNC and the RNC - it is THEY that pre-vet their presidential candidate offerings, and are offering up these same "vetted" candidates as constitutionally eligible for the office of the President.
Starting with Obama, legitimate eligibility questions have NOT been officially and publicly investigated as is constitutionally required.
We, The People® have a right and requirement to be involved in this vetting process.
Rend the constitutional fabric - either through evil intention, or sheer laziness - sow the war.
intothegoodnight
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L.A.B.
Goodness before greatness.
Arnold Ziffel had pigsona and charisma like no other famous slab of bacon.
Wasn’t there a 2nd cousin named Wilber, or do I have my sitcoms mixed up with Looney-Tunes?
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intothatgoodnight
. . .
Perhaps I overlooked it - when did we **legally** modify our Constitution to allow those that are born here, while their parent(s) are NOT U.S. citizens, to become eligible for the office of President - must of missed it - care to enlighten?
intothegoodnight
It's not like this hasn't come up, been discussed and argued before with Obama.
This is the first time that I've heard that BOTH parents themselves need to be Natural Born Citizens. Does anybody remember this coming up during the pre-Obama days? Was there any proof offered?
Most people myself included after the Obama crap are of the opinion that a natural born citizen simply means Born on US territory, not born elsewhere and Naturalized and has nothing to do with two parents, anchor babies etc etc.
I've seen no facts posted here that would change what I consider the widely accepted interpretation. Certainly none of the posters here have offered up any in this thread.
I'm waiting and more than willing to change my mind, but the information presented here so far appears to personal opinions not facts.
This is the first time that I've heard that BOTH parents themselves need to be Natural Born Citizens. Does anybody remember this coming up during the pre-Obama days? Was there any proof offered?
Most people myself included after the Obama crap are of the opinion that a natural born citizen simply means Born on US territory, not born elsewhere and Naturalized and has nothing to do with two parents, anchor babies etc etc.
I've seen no facts posted here that would change what I consider the widely accepted interpretation. Certainly none of the posters here have offered up any in this thread.
I'm waiting and more than willing to change my mind, but the information presented here so far appears to personal opinions not facts.
intothatgoodnight
. . .
Yes this very point was discussed - here, and elsewhere.
What "proof" are you looking for, specifically?
The primary issue, as both you and TerryK have presented it - people's opinions are what counts - and are what should be paid attention to, correct?
What do you think of Guns-N-Moses' above thread posting, and does it constitute opinion?
intothegoodnight
Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
Why don’t you go march on the Capitol and send Strongly Worded Messages to your elected officials, detailing your dissatisfaction?
Or do you expect me to do that for you?
Melodi
Disaster Cat
The point is that these issues have been on-going since before I worked at the US Attorney's office and had to deal with ih the legal status of foreign-born applicants for jobs that required a Federal Security Clearance.
And still, who the hell really knows where Satoro was born.
The REASON the US Supreme Court needs to rule (and I mean rule not just side-step the issues) is so IF the American people don't like their answers, then ways can be looked at to change the laws.
That was done in Ireland with birth citizenship (originally copied from the US Consitution) but passing constitutional amendments in Ireland only requires people to vote on it. In the US you need congress to pass legislation and then 2/3rds of the States to ratify it.
But the FIRST STEP is having the highest court ruled on these test cases (Ted Cruz would be a good one) and once and clarify this stuff once and for all.
In a nation where so many people have foreign-born parents and/or military parents stationed overseas these really are important issues.
I am NOT a fan of Kamala Harris but she is a Natural Born Citizen the way the laws are currently interpreted by the State Department.
I think Guns-N-Moses is posting his own personal beliefs, what HE and OTHERS WANT to see happen.
Acceptable proof would be either the text of the original statute and/or Federal Case law (with Citation) in which this very topic of two parents being natural born is valid and affirmed by the court. Just a citation is enough, I can search.
Guns-N-Moses
Senior Member
Nope, not my personal belief - it's based on what was taught in schools/colleges back in the day and by people that are a lot smarter than me. Unfortunately, it was not defined in the Constitution.
There have been some legal challenges on the definition of 'citizen' and its variants (American Citizen, Natural Born Citizen, Naturalized Citizen, Native Citizen) but none that specifically relate to the conditions for the office of the President, which is and should be a higher standard.
As mentioned, I ask that you consider the point I made in the earlier post and what was likely the common understanding at the time (English Common Law).
Emmerich de Vattel who was an international lawyer at the time defined "natural born citizen" as the purest form of citizenship, requiring both jus soli ("law of the soil") citizenship and jus sanguinis ("law of the blood") citizenship—with BOTH parents being citizens. Otherwise Vladimir & Lyudmila Putin could have had a child born on US soil and be eligible for President. Our founders wanted to ensure this could not happen. How else would they prevent this if they didn't add this clause into the Articles of the Constitution?
As many have stated, this was discussed/argued ad nauseam back when Obama was running. I could post some of these arguments but I don't think we need to rehash this again, however I do believe it needs to be addressed (Supreme Court) once and for all.
mistaken1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
We are arguing over whether or not a woman is eligible to be vice-president in a fraudulently won election.
How far the mighty have fallen.
The election fraud is provable yet the institutions charged with seeking justice have not just turned a blind eye towards it they have locked it up in a closet and thrown away the key.
These corrupt institutions that whitewashed the steal are sure as hell not going to adjudicate 'natural born citizen'.
How far the mighty have fallen.
The election fraud is provable yet the institutions charged with seeking justice have not just turned a blind eye towards it they have locked it up in a closet and thrown away the key.
These corrupt institutions that whitewashed the steal are sure as hell not going to adjudicate 'natural born citizen'.
danielboon
TB Fanatic
So close, no matter how far
Couldn't be much more from the heart
Forever trusting who we are
And nothing else matters
Never opened myself this way
Life is ours, we live it our way
All these words, I don't just say
And nothing else matters
Trust I seek and I find in you
Every day for us something new
Open mind for a different view
And nothing else matters
Never cared for what they do
Never cared for what they know
But I know
So close, no matter how far
It couldn't be much more from the heart
Forever trusting who we are
And nothing else matters
Never cared for what they do
Never cared for what they know
But I know
I never opened myself this way
Life is ours, we live it our way
All these words, I don't just say
And nothing else matters
Trust I seek and I find in you
Every day for us something new
Open mind for a different view
And nothing else matters
Never cared for what they say
Never cared for games they play
Never cared for what they do
Never cared for what they know
And I know, yeah, yeah
So close, no matter how far
Couldn't be much more from the heart
Forever trusting who we are
No, nothing else matters
6:36