LEGAL Law Prohibits Pence From Accepting Electoral Votes From Fraudulently Certified States

[jward]

Law Prohibits Pence From Accepting Electoral Votes From Fraudulently Certified States – Constitutional Lawyer
Ivan Raiklin says Vice President Pence can request states send Electoral College slates that actually reflect the will of the people

by Tom Pappert
December 20, 2020






Citing the United States Constitution and U.S. Code, Constitutional Lawyer Ivan Raiklin says it is Vice President Mike Pence’s duty to instruct states to expeditiously send their Electoral College Certificates immediately if they have not been received.
U.S.C. 12 explains that “When no certificate of vote and list mentioned in sections 9 and 11 of this title from any State shall have been received by the President of the Senate or by the Archivist of the United States by the fourth Wednesday in December, after the meeting of the electors shall have been held, the President of the Senate … shall request, by the most expeditious method available, the secretary of state of the State to send up the certificate…”
Beyond the allegations and evidence of widespread fraud presented by both President Donald Trump’s legal team and independent lawyers and witnesses across the United States, several states have now sent competing slates of delegates to Washington, D.C.

Additionally, Republicans in Pennsylvania and Arizona have asked the U.S. Congress not to accept the votes assigned by the state’s Secretary of State, suggesting they represent fraudulent election results.
Should Pence take this action, he is then instructed by the law to request these states immediately send accurate Electoral College Certificates before January 6.

Raiklin told National File that Pence will essentially force states to reclaim their Constitutional power to appoint Electoral College votes.
“That forces State Legislatures’ hand,” said Raiklin. “Pence can force the legislatures to reclaim their Constitutional power, hold a session, and appoint the Electoral College votes themselves as the Supreme Court did not address this issue.”

Mr @vp @Mike_Pence ,
Please read every word! You play an outsized role on Wednesday#WeThePeople https://t.co/hG19sACQ0K pic.twitter.com/ULIfUycBAw
— Ivan E. Raiklin (Former Green Beret Commander) (@Raiklin) December 20, 2020

According to Raiklin, the Constitution would allow these states to be completely stricken from the Electoral College if Pence should refuse to accept them, and the number of Electoral College votes required to win would shrink dramatically from 270. President Trump would win under a simple majority of Electoral College votes, 232-227, without any risk of triggering a contingent election.

Dec 23 Plan Q & A. @VP @Mike_Pence Ivan E. Raiklin @raiklin
— Ivan E. Raiklin (Former Green Beret Commander) (@Raiklin) December 20, 2020

While many legal scholars have indicated there is ambiguity about how Electoral Votes are accepted, the media has maintained that Biden’s electoral win was secured on December 14, and will be confirmed on January 20. However, Raiklin tells National File he is willing to defend his analysis.
“I challenge any attorney anywhere to fact check this. If you have a different legal analysis, prove it.”

Should Republicans push for a contingent election, President Trump’s victory would again rely on Pence to cast the tie breaking vote after the House and Senate are deadlocked on whether battleground states Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, Michigan, and Wisconsin should be stricken from the total. Should neither candidate reach 270 votes, a contingent election would almost certainly see President Trump reelected by a vote cast by individual states, not Representatives, in the House, and Vice President Pence reelected in the Senate.
President Trump and his Republican allies in the House of Representatives and potentially the Senate have been preparing for an Electoral College contest on January 6 that may well lead to a contingent election. According to Raiklin, this would spare the country from this almost wholly uncharted territory.

posted for fair use

Law Prohibits Pence From Accepting Electoral Votes From Fraudulently Certified States - Constitutional Lawyer

Ivan Raiklin says Vice President Pence can request states send Electoral College slates that actually reflect the will of the people

nationalfile.com

 

[ShadowMan]

Well won't that just set off the communists and snowflacks and seriously sand paper their hemmoroids!!!

 

[Trouble]

If would be truly hilarious, but I'll not hold my breath. Those commie assed morons would lose their minds.

 

[jward]

And don't you have a wonderful way with words and painting pictures
:; squirms in chair w/ unwanted sympathy pains ::

 

[mzkitty]

If would be truly hilarious, but I'll not hold my breath. Those commie assed morons would lose their minds.

And the country and presidency should be given to them simply because they'd lose their minds?

 

[night driver]

And you think SanFranNan would WILLINGLY participate in the election of DJT?? Being FORCED to conduct the supplementary election for him in the House??

She'll either find a way to stuff this or have a stroke trying.

 

[ktrapper]

And don't you have a wonderful way with words and painting pictures
:; squirms in chair w/ unwanted sympathy pains ::

I hopes it’s a rat tailed wood rasp instead of sand paper.
Then a hot fire poker.

 

[Millwright]

She'll either find a way to stuff this or have a stroke trying.

I'm OK with that option.

Otherwise it's 1 vote per state, isn't it?

 

[SmithJ]

The headline says “Law Prohibits Pence From Accepting Electoral Votes From Fraudulently Certified States”

But none have been judged to be ”fraudulent“

The democrats have followed the legal process every step of the way, and the courts have upheld them.

So in order for this article to have outcome the author states, the electoral vote would need to go through the court process and be judged fraudulent. Pretty hard since all the courts have thrown cases out.

You don’t steal an election if you don’t first make sure you have the backing of the courts..........

 

[Jeff B.]

Oh boy... Wouldn't the snowflakes have a complete melt down!

Jeff B.

 

[Trouble]

And the country and presidency should be given to them simply because they'd lose their minds?

And where exactly did I say that?? Please show me. I didn't, merely made a statement of fact. I couldn't care less if they lose their minds, I'd rather find it amusing, as I said. Also said I won't hold my breath, and I won't. Dont assume...

 

[Dobbin]

4th Wednesday in December is the 23rd. Two days before Christmas.

Like dry leaves before the hurricane fly, when they meet with an obstacle and mount to the sky...

Dobbin

 

[modernbeat]

The headline says “Law Prohibits Pence From Accepting Electoral Votes From Fraudulently Certified States”
But none have been judged to be ”fraudulent“
The democrats have followed the legal process every step of the way, and the courts have upheld them.

The out for this is that the Electors are to be assigned by the State Legislatures. Since seven states sent in "official" Electors and another spate of Electors selected by their State Legislatures, a question comes up on which is the right set of Electors.
Pence can use that to go back to the State and force their Legislature to either sign off of the first set of "official" Electors, or to issue a retraction of those "official" Electors and issue a new choice of Electors.

If they do this, then we get official Electors for Trump. If they do not follow through then Pence has standing to declare both sets of Electors from that state to be is dispute and not consider them at all. The danger to this route is that Democrats in the US Senate and House may protest the count and force a contingent election in the House for President and Senate for Vice President. Both chambers will debate and then vote and there may be some way to extend the debate or delay the vote more than two weeks, allowing the Speaker of the House to take the reins.

 

[SmithJ]

The out for this is that the Electors are to be assigned by the State Legislatures. Since seven states sent in "official" Electors and another spate of Electors selected by their State Legislatures, a question comes up on which is the right set of Electors.
Pence can use that to go back to the State and force their Legislature to either sign off of the first set of "official" Electors, or to issue a retraction of those "official" Electors and issue a new choice of Electors.

If they do this, then we get official Electors for Trump. If they do not follow through then Pence has standing to declare both sets of Electors from that state to be is dispute and not consider them at all. The danger to this route is that Democrats in the US Senate and House may protest the count and force a contingent election in the House for President and Senate for Vice President. Both chambers will debate and then vote and there may be some way to extend the debate or delay the vote more than two weeks, allowing the Speaker of the House to take the reins.

I could be wrong, but I believe in no case were any “competing” electors sent by a state legislature. They are either coming of their own will, or they have been selected by groups outside the state government. Not acts of the official state legislature.

So there is no “legal” issue of competing electors. That’s not an “out”

 

[WalknTrot]

There's plenty that can be done under the Constitution if everyone involved has big brass ones. The Founders made contingencies for a contested/fraudulent election such as this. But it would take a concerted effort of the right people in the right places putting it ALL on the line. Their careers, their future earnings and power, and in this day and age, their reputation, their very homes and family's safety.

I still believe that Divine Providence watches over this country - there's a reason all those messed up states happen to have Republican legislatures in place, and that we have a Republican V.P presiding over the House.
Problem is...will the Providence be embraced?

 

[All4liberty]

Could Pence require that the states with contested electors be sent back to those states legislature for them to determine who their electors will be?

 

[All4liberty]

I could be wrong, but I believe in no case were any “competing” electors sent by a state legislature. They are either coming of their own will, or they have been selected by groups outside the state government. Not acts of the official state legislature.

So there is no “legal” issue of competing electors. That’s not an “out”

No, I don't think that is correct. You and I couldn't not just send another list of competing electors. These were sent by representive bodies and the actual electors themselves such as Nevada. They may not be the "certified" electors from the Governors, but they are a problem to be dealt with.

 

[mecoastie]

More wishful thinking. The official electors have already cast their ballot. The second set is essentially a placeholder in hopes for a miracle in court. Pence would have no legal standing selecting them over the official ones unless the courts were to overturn the election results in the states. He cant just pick the set he wants.

 

[SmithJ]

No, I don't think that is correct. You and I couldn't not just send another list of competing electors. These were sent by representive bodies and the actual electors themselves such as Nevada. They may not be the "certified" electors from the Governors, but they are a problem to be dealt with.

"You and I couldn't not just send another list of competing electors."

That's the problem I'm talking about. These are not official electors chosen by a state legislature. They are just people that call themselves electors, and in some cases they have the backing of a few legislators - but not of the legislative body.

 

[Dobbin]

So there is no “legal” issue of competing electors. That’s not an “out”

The competing electors are just there as "place holders." In case the State Legislature(s) decide to recall their certification and give it to the other candidate on the basis of "newly discovered ballot chicanery."

Problem is - most State Legislatures are more political than even Congress, and are even less likely to do "the right thing," especially if it requires actually taking a position.

It was easy having the electoral commission tell you who to certify - plausible deniability. Not so easy hearing the claims, deciding if they are true, and then acting upon it. That one you do BY YOURSELF.

They will do the "politically expedient" thing - and unfortunately with Trump not in full command of the GOP there will not be political encouragement.

Now given a potential turn in Georgia, that might change. It might even change nationally as the GOP wakes up to the fact that "Trumpism" is a fact - and elections are always not that far off for a Pol.

Dobbin

 

[All4liberty]

More wishful thinking. The official electors have already cast their ballot. The second set is essentially a placeholder in hopes for a miracle in court. Pence would have no legal standing selecting them over the official ones unless the courts were to overturn the election results in the states. He cant just pick the set he wants.

It may be wishful thinking, but your framing is inaccurate. The competing electors are not a placeholder, the courts would not be involved in this. They are a problem. I think Modernbeat has the clearest analysis of the most likely event which I quote below.

"Pence can use that to go back to the State and force their Legislature to either sign off of the first set of "official" Electors, or to issue a retraction of those "official" Electors and issue a new choice of Electors."

This allows the constitutional body in each of these disputed states the opportunity to determine after review of the election process who the electors should be. Very little the court or congress could do to object. The only reason the legislature can pick a different set of electors is if their election process wasn't followed, and fraud occurred. They are not allowed to just pick different electors because they didn't like who was picked. This is a safeguard and an important one.

Will three or four of the seven states legislatures determine their process wasn't followed and sit different electors? I would say this pushes the pressure back to the states where it belongs.

Just my two cents, but I wouldn't label it as just wishful thinking.

 

[rbt]

The supreme court has already made part of the Constitution worthless, there is no way to say what part is going to be honored if any. Third world countries make up laws as they go, if you don’t think we have reached the third world read the Constitution.

 

[All4liberty]

"You and I couldn't not just send another list of competing electors."

That's the problem I'm talking about. These are not official electors chosen by a state legislature. They are just people that call themselves electors, and in some cases they have the backing of a few legislators - but not of the legislative body.

No that is not correct at all.

While it is not the whole legislative bodies, they are representatives of the body that constitutionally is responsible for determining the electors. They are not just Trump stooges, or citizens. Even though the Nevada 2nd set of electors are from the GOP, they are submitted and will have to be dealt with. They are not just you and me. They are a problem.

 

[SmithJ]

No that is not correct at all.

While it is not the whole legislative bodies, they are representatives of the body that constitutionally is responsible for determining the electors. They are not just Trump stooges, or citizens. Even though the Nevada 2nd set of electors are from the GOP, they are submitted and will have to be dealt with. They are not just you and me. They are a problem.

I understand what you are saying, but the GOP is just a political body and their "electors" have no more standing than any individual.

Regardless, we will soon find out.......

 

[bw]

The headline says “Law Prohibits Pence From Accepting Electoral Votes From Fraudulently Certified States”

But none have been judged to be ”fraudulent“

The fraud exists before a court issues a judgment of its fraudulence. The fraud exists regardless that a court refuses to hear the case. There is no requirement that a fraud be certified by a court before Pence can take notice of it.

 

[All4liberty]

I understand what you are saying, but the GOP is just a political body and their "electors" have no more standing than any individual.

Regardless, we will soon find out.......

Yes, I would agree with your take that the Nevada electors are a GOP political body, and less of "problem". The other states, standing or not, if they are there on Jan. 6th they are a problem that will have to be dealt with by Pence.

 

[SmithJ]

The fraud exists before a court issues a judgment of its fraudulence. The fraud exists regardless that a court refuses to hear the case. There is no requirement that a fraud be certified by a court before Pence can take notice of it.

Theoretically possible doesn't equal likely

 

[Dozdoats]

(1) ALERT - Georgia may soon rescind and replace their slate of electors. | Timebomb 2000

 

[alchemike]

And the law matters since when???

 

[Laurane]

The democrats have followed the legal process every step of the way, and the courts have upheld them


The democrats have followed the legal process every step of the way, and the courts have xxxxxxx refused to listen to the evidence xxxxxxx. They have not upheld the Dems.

 

[Profit of Doom]

The out for this is that the Electors are to be assigned by the State Legislatures. Since seven states sent in "official" Electors and another spate of Electors selected by their State Legislatures, a question comes up on which is the right set of Electors.
Pence can use that to go back to the State and force their Legislature to either sign off of the first set of "official" Electors, or to issue a retraction of those "official" Electors and issue a new choice of Electors.

If they do this, then we get official Electors for Trump. If they do not follow through then Pence has standing to declare both sets of Electors from that state to be is dispute and not consider them at all. The danger to this route is that Democrats in the US Senate and House may protest the count and force a contingent election in the House for President and Senate for Vice President. Both chambers will debate and then vote and there may be some way to extend the debate or delay the vote more than two weeks, allowing the Speaker of the House to take the reins.

One of these scenarios calls for up to two hours of debate.

 

[The Cub]

The democrats have followed the legal process every step of the way, and the courts have upheld them


The democrats have followed the legal process every step of the way, and the courts have xxxxxxx refused to listen to the evidence xxxxxxx. They have not upheld the Dems.

Historically....at least during the last few decades......most Americans are willing to accept that corruption exists within the Legislative Branch, and the Executive Branch.....but have treated the Men in Black as though they were sacrosanct.

The whole system is corrupt with evil men.

 

[modernbeat]

One of these scenarios calls for up to two hours of debate.

There is some debate on what the "two hours" is for. Is it two hours total? Is it two hours per state? Is it two hours per electorate vote? And they know how to drag out two hours with procedure.

 

[Tristan]

The Law "Prohibits" the things that Hunter Biden did,
The Law "Prohibits" the things that Weiner did,
The Law "Prohibits" the things that Clinton did,
The Law "Prohibits" the things that Pennsylvania did,



Any Questions?

 

[bw]

No questions. All those folks wanted to ignore the prohibition. Pence wants to comply with it.

 

[Tristan]

No questions. All those folks wanted to ignore the prohibition. Pence wants to comply with it.

Here's to hope!

 

[somewherepress]

Have not found independent confirmation that this letter is real. But it's appearently from the lawyer mentioned in the OP. If it is liberal heads will be exploding nationwide in a couple days...

You thought @realDonaldTrump was going to pull out the “Trump” card in this election? It is actually going to be the Pence card!!! On Wednesday Dec 23!!!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1341100615775170560

View: https://twitter.com/Raiklin/status/1341100615775170560

 

[bw]

I hope this is real, but I'm prepared to be disappointed. I've been married before.

 

[night driver]

Mr. Raiklin has been trying diligently to lead the Pence to water (dang sure he ain't being led to bourbon) and trying to get him to drink of the minutia of elections for a while now.

Hope he's successful and right soon.