ECON Johann Kurtz- Young adults are poor despite every metric which suggests otherwise

[King Samson]

The one thing I will give young people is housing. Depending on where you live, and most young folks will live where the jobs are, housing costs, percentage wise, are definitely higher than when I was coming up. The percentage of income that it takes to buy or rent a place, is much more for them now. When I bought my first house, it was roughly 2x annual income, now, it is 5x income.

The Housing cost discussion always pops up in these economic threads. What doesn't get discussed is what's under the hood, when kids say they can't afford a house...

What's been shown, over and over, kids today want the SAME house as their "starter" house, that mom and dad live in now. Multiple reports have shown, these kids want a 4 bedroom, 2400 sq. ft. house, as their first home. Problem is, they can't afford them on their Walmart salaries.

They won't "suffer" in a 1200 sq ft, 3 bedroom house, and then work their way up, like mom and dad did, starting out.

So, when articles start claiming how more expensive houses are now, and the poor little kiddies can't afford them, it's important to compare apples to apples, and not apples to hammers, on the TYPE of houses.

 

[marsofold]

Housing costs, medical coverage, and college loans are the financial curse of the young. Having to pay off a student loan for a degree in Ethnic Studies will get zero sympathy from me. Such useless fools deserve their fates. Working for an employer that provides at least limited medical coverage is very useful. I recently read that the state with the most affordable housing is West Virginia. I used Zillow to find my house and bought it cash two days after it had been posted. My buddy 2-1/2 miles from me rents a small two bedroom house for $350/month. In 2019 I paid $139,000 for a small old WV farmhouse on 50 acres with a big creek. Granted, I had to spend $11K upgrading it to make it livable, but for $150K total? Jobs are a bit thin here, with Walmart, the hospital, and gas field work (if you can take it) being the best opportunities.

 

[day late]

And this quote sums it up...

....."Steve told me. “I just have a real problem with handouts. And I want him to have the satisfaction of knowing he’s built something himself, with his own hard work. That’s how I was raised, too."..

The poor Millennials want EVERYTHING given to them, they refuse to work for it.

What's the number one retirement plan of Millennials?? Inherit their Parent's wealth.... Not work for it....

I blame the entire concept of things like “participation trophies”. The idea that everyone is a winner just for participating is ridiculous. Life just doesn’t work that way. There are winners and losers in everything. The sooner kids learn that the better off they will be. Look at all the Karen’s out there to understand what I mean. People calling the cops because someone who lives in the same apartment complex took “their parking spot”. Or throwing a fit because of too much or too little ketchup on their Big Mac.

 

[marsofold]

As far as parents' moral obligations, I believe that helping out an offspring who is genuinely doing their utmost to survive is their primary job in life. Every creature in nature takes that view and it is un-natural for selfish humans not to. My mother paid off the last $11K on my first house (she had $700K in the bank), enabling me to quit a soul-sucking stressful job. People genuinely indifferent to their offspring's welfare should be disowned by the family and cut off from all access. They are morally unfit for contact with any children.

 

[dstraito]

I think there are many valid points in the op. I think there are other important points to make.

Generational differences such as parents never saying NO. Eliminating corporal punishment. Award participation trophies. Those teenagers tuning in to technology had parents GIVE them their iPhones and iPads and at the same time reduced their participation in the children's lives.

The concept of "Work Ethic" blurred or in some cases was totally extinguished.

My parents were of the Depression era and growing up we were very poor. I learned you have to work for something if you want it, it isn't just going to be provided.

Putting myself through college while working 33 hours per week was hard, but I did it. I got the BA degree in Finance everyone said was necessary to thrive. My first post college job required a four year degree and when I started, I ended up learning their computer systems and never used my Finance degree but it got me in the door.

Since I did not have the Computer Science background, I embraced self-study and taking 27 hours of computer courses on my own dime and time. I took inhouse courses and I was studying all the time to get better while at the same time was not quite making enough money to pay the mortgage on my first house which was at 14% so I worked evenings as a waiter at a Steak restaurant.

I have experienced a different level of motivation with younger generations. They are caught up in keeping up with the Jones in such things as iPhones, shoes, and items that enhance their "influencer" mode. They have to have their energy drinks everyday as well as one or more Starbucks specialty coffees. They drop$3 plus on the energy drinks, $8 plus on the coffee, DoorDash their lunch and then complain about not having any money.
They expect to get an entry level job making the same thing as someone that has been doing that job for 30 years. They don't spend extra time getting more skills or learning, they eschew overtime and often take a day off because they need some Personal time.

We are not the same.

 

[Sterling_025]

I’m on the fence for this one. I see both sides have valid points. I am 25 this year and feel like I’ve been working my entire life. Which like many that came before me was the normal. I may not have grown up on a farming operation like my predecessor but I was born into a blue collar family. I was on my first job site by the time I was old enough to push a broom. Anyone who is in the trades in the north understand that you can’t dig basements in the winter. So it’s either be laid off, diversify, or go find it. We picked option three. By junior high every summer and weekend I would travel hours to wherever the prior storm season concocted a devastating hurricane. By highschool I had chose to take the home school route and work full time. By 17 years old I was able to live a life style that my piers were jealous of. I was focusing on building a future while there future only extended to Friday night. I was out casted but in order to become something in this life you must march alone at times. Everyone poked and prodded about how I was silver spoon fed, yet wouldn’t look at the calluses that told the true story. I too have little hope on buying a grand home, but where I live land is still reasonable. So rather than a new home on a quarter acre for 300K(plus) I can still buy an old home on a large swath of land and polish the turd till it shines. That logic doesn’t track with the youth. They make me sick because of the excuses they can formulate to get any sympathy. I’m far from stoic but I believe until you have done HARD WORK you will never understand the VALUE of a dollar. I’ve been very blessed and I understand the uniqueness of my situation, but the reckoning for good or worse is for the outsider. I believe the order in which I’ve been formed is a similar tune that has hummed in many hearts of Americans. I pray for the youth constantly and it brings me a small amount of joy knowing that they must take there medicine now or be forced too later. Get off your a$$, break your back, and continue your own character development.

 

[King Samson]

As far as parents' moral obligations, I believe that helping out an offspring who is genuinely doing their utmost to survive is their primary job in life. Every creature in nature takes that view and it is un-natural for selfish humans not to.

I think the big difficulty is, where is the line between "Helping" and "Enabling"? That's the question. There's no issue helping a kid through a tough period, for a short period of time, if the kid takes ownership, and fixes the issue.

There's another issue where the parents become the Bank of Mom and Dad, and continue to shovel money to the kids for every issue that arises, and the kid does nothing to fix it.

Here's my post above, spells it out really well.

42% of adults rely on their parents for financial support​

A large portion of U.S. adults are making ends meet with help from their parents.

ECON - Johann Kurtz- Young adults are poor despite every metric which suggests otherwise

Young adults are poor despite every metric which suggests otherwise Johann Kurtz @JohannKurtz · Jul 14 A recent article from The Cut received a huge amount of attention: ‘It’s Hard to See My Parents Live So Lavishly While We’re Struggling’. The piece includes vignettes of Millenial...

www.timebomb2000.com

Also, after reading that article, it also makes me think why so many kids have embraced Socialism, and why so many Democrat Socialists have won recent primaries. The kids are "conditioned" to have freebies thrown at them from mom and dad, and want the government to do that too, so they can continue to "Ride the Wave".

 

[King Samson]

I’m far from stoic but I believe until you have done HARD WORK you will never understand the VALUE of a dollar. I’ve been very blessed and I understand the uniqueness of my situation, but the reckoning for good or worse is for the outsider. I believe the order in which I’ve been formed is a similar tune that has hummed in many hearts of Americans.

You are a polished gem, in a sea of rough rocks. You figured it out, and will definitely be rewarded for it in the future.

Great Job!!!

 

[anna43]

Every generation has faced difficulties. Most generations realized this and dealt with it by working hard. Think about the young people who grew up during the Depression and then went off to War. Do you really think life is harder for today's whiners than it was for them?

My first apartment was two rooms, shared bathroom. I had no phone, TV or radio, no vehicle and my weekly paycheck was $43 take home. I was 17 years old and terrified. I didn't whine, I went to work each day and did my job. That was true of each job thru the years, and I did not retire until age 70.

I have little sympathy for those who are unwilling to do the work, put in the time and grow their lives slowly. I have even less sympathy for those with a college degree that is not worth the paper it is printed on and the loans they need to repay. For way too many, college years were party years. I know that is not true for all, some worked their way through college and likely were wise enough to choose a course of study that would lead to a decent job.

 

[anna43]

As far as parents' moral obligations, I believe that helping out an offspring who is genuinely doing their utmost to survive is their primary job in life. Every creature in nature takes that view and it is un-natural for selfish humans not to. My mother paid off the last $11K on my first house (she had $700K in the bank), enabling me to quit a soul-sucking stressful job. People genuinely indifferent to their offspring's welfare should be disowned by the family and cut off from all access. They are morally unfit for contact with any children.

How many parents have $700K in the bank? When my dd went to college, we were still recovering financially from an extended period (3 years) of dh's unemployment. We could only send her an occasional $20. She had to repay her own student loans. After our first child left home, we had kids home for another 10 years.

I don't think parents are selfish to allow their children to figure it out on their own. Allowing them to move back while they figure things out should have a time limit and financial handouts should be extremely limited. Parents need to be planning and saving for retirement during the years after the children leave home. We should not be thinking "our kids will take care of us".

The extent of my parent's "help" was to pay the first month's rent on an apartment. I didn't plan on getting an apartment, I planned on staying home, but guess what, dad rented the apartment and moved me out ... I was 17. No discussion, I didn't even know he'd been looking for an apartment.

 

[Meemur]

When my cousin started nursing school, I helped her out with book money. She's a nurse practitioner now, and I knew then that she had the skills and was serious about her studies.

That's not true of the other relatives. They've started (and flunked out) of various programs. If they were serious and getting a CDL or something worthwhile, I'd help out a little.

 

[library lady]

I spent lunch with a group talking about the impact of the World Cup travelers in the US--and about all those YouTube videos of Europeans utterly confounded by the luxuries and opportunities of American life vs. what they have in the UK, Norway, France, Australia. And then I come here and see an article complaining about lack of opportunity.

ETA: This article reminds me of a friend. She jokes her glass is not just half empty, but it's cracked and leaking all over the floor.

 

[mikeabn]

Every generation has complained about their successors.

 

[King Samson]

I don't think parents are selfish to allow their children to figure it out on their own. Allowing them to move back while they figure things out should have a time limit and financial handouts should be extremely limited. Parents need to be planning and saving for retirement during the years after the children leave home. We should not be thinking "our kids will take care of us".

Second part first. We have a bunch of friends and family, that are retired, and they're still shovelling out their retirement money to their lazy kids, and bail them out. They tell us they won't have enough money for retirement, but constantly pay for phones, cars, rent, etc. for their 35 year old kids... Idiots..

We were the first in our family to get married and have kids, so we didn't have anyone else to bounce ideas off, and our parents weren't much help. Here's what we did with our three Millennial kids, to make them responsible:

When it was time for new jeans, we told them we would pay for Levis or Wrangler. If they wanted designer jeans, they had to come up with the difference. If they needed new sneakers, we said we'd pay for standard Reboks or Converse. If they wanted Jordan Pumps, they had to come up with the difference. If they needed a Winter coat, we said we'd buy a Woolrich. If they wanted a team Starter jacket, they had to come up with the difference.

This ended up teaching them, at a early age, that if they wanted something, they had to work for it. It also taught them money management. We had no idea if this was the correct approach, as all of their friends got what they wanted from Mom and Dad, but all three are successful, and don't ask us for anything (except for occassional baby sitting).

 

[Raggedyman]

I believe the order in which I’ve been formed is a similar tune that has hummed in many hearts of Americans. I pray for the youth constantly and it brings me a small amount of joy knowing that they must take there medicine now or be forced too later. Get off your a$$, break your back, and continue your own character development.

you sir are my new personal hero. you've learned early and well the INVIOLATE RULE to PERSONAL SUCCESS - its known as
BE - DO - HAVE​

you must BE something - in your case an apprentice or an ambitious self starter. you must DO something - in your case offer a service that others find valuable. ONLY THEN do you get to the HAVINGNESS part of the equation. wanting - or getting - the "HAVINGNESS" before the "beingness" or the "doingness" part of that rule is a problem for many people today - REGARDLESS of their age OR their occupation.

I don't have a much sympathy for people who can't manage to live within their harvest. look at the VAST numbers of young people with several thousand dollars worth of tatts on their boddies, the newest generation cellphone, the daily $12 cup of hot bitter cat piss habit, twice-a-month trips to get their fake nails re-applied and brand new vehicles. I drive a 2007 Toyota Tundra and Raggedyann drives a 2016 Subaru.

lots of discussion regarding the fellow who's father wouldn't give him a loan for 15K to start a lawn business. I WOULD HAVE DONE THAT. I HAVE DONE THAT - but my son made wise choices and ALWAYS repaid the loan(s) - with interest, in advance and NEVER did he miss a payment. perhaps this kid has made poor choices in the past. been given oportunities and not fulfilled obligations - we don't really know the other side of the story.

the key to success is SIMPLE - FIND A NEED AND FILL IT. nobody thats preoccupied with bitching about how unfair their life's circumstance is has the time to do that.

one last thing - the WORST thing you can do for a kid is TOO MUCH. seems to me there's a shit ton of individuals who've lost the ability to differentiate between a HAND UP and a HAND OUT

​

 

[Firebird]

Second part first. We have a bunch of friends and family, that are retired, and they're still shovelling out their retirement money to their lazy kids, and bail them out. They tell us they won't have enough money for retirement, but constantly pay for phones, cars, rent, etc. for their 35 year old kids... Idiots..

We had some friends who did the same thing, constantly doling out money to grown ass adult kids. I remember saying, "Reggie, you need to stop, what if something happens to you, and then your wife is left with nothing?" Well, he died, and his wife had nothing, she had to keep working well into old age.

 

[West]

Second part first. We have a bunch of friends and family, that are retired, and they're still shovelling out their retirement money to their lazy kids, and bail them out. They tell us they won't have enough money for retirement, but constantly pay for phones, cars, rent, etc. for their 35 year old kids... Idiots..

We were the first in our family to get married and have kids, so we didn't have anyone else to bounce ideas off, and or parents weren't much help. Here's what we did with our three Millennial kids, to make them responsible:

When it was time for new jeans, we told them we would pay for Levis or Wrangler. If they wanted designer jeans, they had to come up with the difference. If they needed new sneakers, we said we'd pay for standard Reboks or Converse. If they wanted Jordan Pumps, they had to come up with the difference. If they needed a Winter coat, we said we'd buy a Woolrich. If they wanted a team Starter jacket, they had to come up with the difference.

This ended up teaching them, at a early age, that if they wanted something, they had to work for it. It also taught them money management. We had no idea if this was the correct approach, as all of the friends got what the wanted from Mom and Dad, but all three are successful, and don't ask us for anything (except for occassional baby sitting).

Walmart or alike cheap clothes for our kids.
If they wanted Wranglers or Levi's they had to come up with the money.

Always offered a job for them, especially as they became teenagers. I worked them, and they got trained at least on work ethic.

Have gave a few trucks/cars away, but they pay their own insurance, gas. Etc..

Vehicles are not only tools, but a major liabilitie to a new driver. Got that through their fat heads really quick.

Not bragging they all at least got jobs or part time.

One is a big wig in a state department dealing with the states resources.

Also his son who we practically raised, we have been unpaid baby sitters. Since the boy was born. I dont care, the kid seems to have a big heart. And yes I'm already working him. And find myself yelling at him, and then feeling bad about it. Cause he trys so hard.

 

[Raggedyman]

This ended up teaching them, at a early age, that if they wanted something, they had to work for it. It also taught them money management. We had no idea if this was the correct approach, as all of the friends got what the wanted from Mom and Dad, but all three are successful, and don't ask us for anything (except for occassional baby sitting).

my first car was a '58 Buick Roadmaster. I BOUGHT IT from my father for $50. I was 16 aaand a junior in HS. I had to pay for my own gas insurance and repairs. I was ONLY ALLOWED to drive that car to work and back. I rode the bus to school like everybody else did. I was given permission to drive it to prom. today many of these kids drive brand new pickups north of 60K with fancy wheels and expensive lifts given to them as birthday gifts or graduation presents.

one last thing . . . I had an 11:30 curfew until the day I left for boot camp at 18. one night the deep fryer overflowed at the Burger Chef where I worked. when I got home - it was 11:45 and the doors were locked. I was 15" late - I slept in the car that night. my father denied that ever happened - but it DID. he's been gone almost 5 years now - and I STILL THANK HIM DAILY for instilling in me the values he did.

 

[raven]

what is a young adult?
You've heard of middle age. You've heard of mid life crisis.
What is young? What is middle?

If average age at death is 78, and there are 3 ages, then each age is 26 years.
26+26+26=78.

It starts from zero to 13 where you go from diapers to sex.
Then young adult is 14 to 26 which is all about sex.
Then there is 27 to 40 which is middle age which goes from kids to mid life crisis
Then from 41 to 52 which is miserable divorce and a lot less sex.
Then there is just comfortable adult, 53 to 65
And then just old, 66 to 78, where you go back to diapers.

So young adult is 26 and younger - 14 to 26.

I did not own a house until I was 30.
none of our kids own houses
but my grandson is 26,was making $25/hr and bought a house (and won't take money from me)
but our kids . . .always asking for money . . . like just today

 

[raven]

We had some friends who did the same thing, constantly doling out money to grown ass adult kids. I remember saying, "Reggie, you need to stop, what if something happens to you, and then your wife is left with nothing?" Well, he died, and his wife had nothing, she had to keep working well into old age.

just wait.
dying isn't much of a problem.
what if you have a stroke and the other has a triple bypass
. . . and you have to pay the deductible on the roof replacement,
remodel the bathroom to accommodate your grab bars and toggle handles,
and replace the "last car you were ever going to own because the wheelchair does not fit,
and paint the house (which should have been done two years ago),
and the lawn service just busted the hinges right off the gate and had to be nail up to keep the dog in.

oh . . . wait . . . perhaps I said too much . . .

never mind you just keep sending those freeloaders money cause they are not going to show up to help do a damn thing.

 

[summerthyme]

Yeah... parents absolutely need to consider that their time to rebuild savings if they give too much away to their kids is short to non-existent.

Our four kids were basically Generation X...they were born 1977 through 1983. They graduated high school right around the turn of the century. By the time they finished college (2 with masters; they teach high-school subjects, 1 programmer machinist, and 1 mechanical engineer), the Housing Bubble hit, and the Prime interest rate climbed to almost 9%. Then came the "Great Recession".

Fortunately, they were all hard workers. One rented until his school loans were paid off, then bought a 1950s ranch house which desperately needed upgrading. Second son and his wife bought a duplex on 2 acres in a suburb of the city where they both worked. The rent from the other half of the duplex paid their mortgage, taxes and insurance until the mortgage was paid off. Youngest son and his wife bought a HUD house in a depressed small city...her parents did help them with the down payment, but they paid them back within 2 years. DS had to upgrade and remodel the whole place...new windows, all new kitchen (he built the cabinets and fabricated cement countertops, as well as making a hand-crafted beaten-copper hood for the stove). All the wiring was know and tube! It all had to be replaced.

The machine shop cabal in NY state has an absolute chokehold on wages. When DS was still only making $28 an hour as the ONLY programmer at the shop, he started looking for other work. A friend got his foot in the door at a chain auto parts store warehouse...he was the head of maintenance. They paid better than machining, but after he spent two years repainting the entire huge warehouse, keeping the 115 year old conveyor belt running, designed and built new storage systems that saved the warehouse workers tons of time when picking orders...they rewarded him by asking him to do all the outside maintenance and groundskeeping!

He heard of an opening for an industrial electrician at a factory less than 4 miles from his farm. His only "formal" electrical training was a semester of "Basic Electricity" in high school! He spent three weeks reading the electrical code and a bunch of textbooks, at home and on breaks at his job. He was the only one of 5 applicants who passed the tests...and got a perfect score on the math and code sections.

He has had to learn how to repair and maintain machines on an assembly line, including a particle accelerator they use to instantly dry printing on plastic and cardboard containers. The pay is decent, but they only give ONE PTO day a year for the first three years!

When their HUD house burned down in 2019, DS bought a camper (insurance company paid for it, in place of paying rent for them for months while they rebuilt). They lived in it while he built a snug apartment in the haymow of the barn he'd built on their small farm three years earlier; they lived in the apartment while their house was built.

The girls all have daily farm chores, and the 8 and 9 year old can drive the ATV as well as the little Ford 8N tractor. The oldest got into MineCraft, and it started becoming a problem...I set up a program where she can earn MineCraft time by working for us or her parents. Every hour of work earns her half an hour of MineCraft. It's amazing how well it's worked! She'll show up at the apartment bright and early in the morning and ask, "what can I do to help today?". She weeds, runs the weed whacker, helps me harvest herbs, picks berries...empties the dishwasher or helps fold clothes. And I'll admit to being quite shocked..she does it all without a single grumble and with a genuinely good attitude.

And it has instilled the foundation for her life...she understands and has embraced the "If I want something, I have to work for it" basic rule for life.

I think that regardless of how tough things are when they become adults, they'll do just fine!

Summerthyme

 

[teedee]

I have a wonderful lady that comes 3 days a week to help me bath and wash my hair. I pointed out to her today that one of the chairs in the bed room was part of my parents wedding set! It is still a good solid piece of furniture, and was gifted to my wife and I when we got married.

 

[JMG91]

Every generation has faced difficulties. Most generations realized this and dealt with it by working hard. Think about the young people who grew up during the Depression and then went off to War. Do you really think life is harder for today's whiners than it was for them?

My first apartment was two rooms, shared bathroom. I had no phone, TV or radio, no vehicle and my weekly paycheck was $43 take home. I was 17 years old and terrified. I didn't whine, I went to work each day and did my job. That was true of each job thru the years, and I did not retire until age 70.

I have little sympathy for those who are unwilling to do the work, put in the time and grow their lives slowly. I have even less sympathy for those with a college degree that is not worth the paper it is printed on and the loans they need to repay. For way too many, college years were party years. I know that is not true for all, some worked their way through college and likely were wise enough to choose a course of study that would lead to a decent job.

I know that one of my biggest frustrations in today's world is the greater nanny-state we live in now as opposed to how it was for my parents' generations and back. There was a time that you could do certain things for yourself--and save yourself some decent money at the same time--but now, the nanny-state must protect us from ourselves and keep us safe, so there's less freedom with regards to doing things through plain hard work.

 

[Countrymouse]

Have said this so many times I'm sick of saying it:

There are RIGHT NOW 4 brand new houses, fresh built in the 1500 sq ft range, roughly 160-180,000.00 sitting empty for a couple of months to a year. Within about 5 miles of me. For sale sign out front. So the article about there not being any houses for sale in that range is an error. And to top it off, why not build your own? Why be dependent on someone else to find land, and build a home.

Location, location, location.

I don't know yours (location, that is), but in the metro Atlanta area, the only things I could find for under $200K doing a quick internet search just now are very OLD homes in BAD neighborhoods, or one HALF of a duplex-building such as the below: (only the RIGHT-hand portion of the building below is the one for sale--for $180,000).



Again, to ASSume because "well it's this way in MY area" that "it MUST be available in ALL areas" is foolishness.

 

[Countrymouse]

Housing costs, medical coverage, and college loans are the financial curse of the young. Having to pay off a student loan for a degree in Ethnic Studies will get zero sympathy from me. Such useless fools deserve their fates. Working for an employer that provides at least limited medical coverage is very useful. I recently read that the state with the most affordable housing is West Virginia. I used Zillow to find my house and bought it cash two days after it had been posted. My buddy 2-1/2 miles from me rents a small two bedroom house for $350/month. In 2019 I paid $139,000 for a small old WV farmhouse on 50 acres with a big creek. Granted, I had to spend $11K upgrading it to make it livable, but for $150K total? Jobs are a bit thin here, with Walmart, the hospital, and gas field work (if you can take it) being the best opportunities.

$350 a MONTH for a house?

You couldn't rent a ROOM for that little in Atlanta.

Lucky folks in W Virginia.

But...."jobs are a bit thin here".

That's the rub.

You have to find a place to live where you work--since the job is what's paying for the living space.

 

[Phelan]

Let’s have a discussion

For those 60 plus, how many of you had cell phones or bills for such things to the tune of 300$ a month

For everyone else, you now have to have email and a cell phone to even try to get a job... There are no help wanted adds in a physical newspaper. You have to have a data plan. I'm going to skip the race and age discrimination.

 

[anna43]

Second part first. We have a bunch of friends and family, that are retired, and they're still shovelling out their retirement money to their lazy kids, and bail them out. They tell us they won't have enough money for retirement, but constantly pay for phones, cars, rent, etc. for their 35 year old kids... Idiots..

Before I retired, I prepared bankruptcies and more than a few were older people who had spent all their retirement funds on adult children. I used to say you need to stand in front of a mirror and practice saying NO!

 

[Buick Electra]

THIS is why they're poor

https://twitter.com/x/status/2078127117737267442

View: https://twitter.com/its_The_Dr/status/2078127117737267442

 

[Doc1]

The businesses I've started we had no business loans. Did pull a loan for a old barn. That we lived in at first. But the property was the collateral.

Again we don't know the whole story stated above.

If one of my kids started a lawn business and needed help, they would get the equipment if warranted. Meaning they would work it and take care of said equipment. Then I might consider helping them get land to base business on etc..

The whole idea of asking Dad for a lump sum? Forget it. You don't start a business with loans! Especially with family. I wouldn't even expect to be paid back in government fiat monies!

Perhaps if warranted, we don't know the whole situation.

Basically agree you. I will point out that used lawn care equipment is very cheap if you buy it intelligently. Before the kid started his business, he should be buying the (second-hand) equipment he needs. Think of that as his business savings account. He should also place his business card on people's door, perhaps with a note saying that he will begin servicing this neighborhood on such and such a date.

He should also start acquiring basic hand tools and studying small engine mechanics. There are countless videos on the net to teach him everything he needs to know. He should understand all of these things now, or he'll go bankrupt paying other people to fix his machines. Lastly, he should make friends with a scrapyard owner. Then he can pick nicer lawnmowers from the yard and only pay scrap prices. Here's a hint: If it has compression it's almost always easilly fixed.

Lawn care can be a viable business, but it's harder than most people suspect.

Best
Doc

 

[West]

Basically agree you. I will point out that used lawn care equipment is very cheap if you buy it intelligently. Before the kid started his business, he should be buying the (second-hand) equipment he needs. Think of that as his business savings account. He should also place his business card on people's door, perhaps with a note saying that he will begin servicing this neighborhood on such and such a date.

He should also start acquiring basic hand tools and studying small engine mechanics. There are countless videos on the net to teach him everything he needs to know. He should understand all of these things now, or he'll go bankrupt paying other people to fix his machines. Lastly, he should make friends with a scrapyard owner. Then he can pick nicer lawnmowers from the yard and only pay scrap prices. Here's a hint: If it has compression it's almost always easilly fixed.

Lawn care can be a viable business, but it's harder than most people suspect.

Best
Doc

Right. They have also came a long way with electric lawn care tools as well.

I just had a 12 YO grandson cut down at least 1/2 acre of grasses around all of our out buildings and the house. Using a nice 40v brushless weed eater. Only needed to recharge once.

And I'm still vary happy with my 16" 20+volt Dewalt brushless chainsaw. With a Oregon bar and chain.

Going to teach this kid how to sharpen a chain this winter if he continues to show interest. We've been doing general maintenance on the mini-bike, and he actually found the 10mm socket in the metric tool box! Removed the oil plug, etc...

One step at a time.

 

[raven]

The only skill those freeloaders have is knowing when you got money.
Example:
I've been cleaning out the garage in order to keep the latest "last car I will ever own" out of the hail.

Finally got the old "erector set" style shelf emptied and on Marketplace and then finally got a real offer to buy it for $20.
And sure enough, I get a text from the 34 year old man child asking "Can you spot me $20 . . . I can pay you later tonight."

 

[CaryC]

Location, location, location.

I don't know yours (location, that is), but in the metro Atlanta area, the only things I could find for under $200K doing a quick internet search just now are very OLD homes in BAD neighborhoods, or one HALF of a duplex-building such as the below: (only the RIGHT-hand portion of the building below is the one for sale--for $180,000).

View attachment 612185

Again, to ASSume because "well it's this way in MY area" that "it MUST be available in ALL areas" is foolishness.

While the "location" as in a state, it is not so much true, in an area.

Those 5 homes like I said are in 5 miles of me, and they are spread out in different directions on the compass, they are ALL country. But they do have running water, and a septic tank. (indoor plumbing).

But are not the only houses like that. A little town pop around 30,000 in the rough, got hit with a tornado, in the residential section a few years ago. Houses, trees etc, all tore up in that part of town. I thank the Lord that no one was even hurt, it was unbelievable that, that happened.

Some of the houses they finished tearing down and rebuilt. Some size 1000-1500 sq ft. Some they just fixed, same. Still empty. Roughly same prices. But not 4,000 sq ft or 400,000.00.

And this town is roughly 40 miles from Tupelo, BUT people want to live there because the school system is out of sight good, and the HS is the focus of the town. The drive is not a big deal.

So whether in town, or in the country (location) the situation is the same. For this state.

Now in GA it may be different, but did you check outside of Atlanta? What the homes were going for in the country? Granted the drive time will be bigger, but driving in Atlanta is a bugger anyway. BTDT.

I personally wouldn't live in town, any town, and forget big city. And if I had to do it over again I would change things up a bit.

My dad bought an acre on a state HWY gave 500.00 for it, and built a house on it. 1100 sq ft. 1970. When the house was finished he told me: Back during the depression, when he would stomp through that area, going hunting, that same land was for sale, without the state hwy running through it. Cost per acre 2.00. He didn't have 2.00. When he gave 500.00 for it, it was the last year he worked and was the first time he broke through 10,000.00 a year.

When I wanted to buy a house after marriage in 1977, an acre was 1500.00. I couldn't afford it.

But now, my priority would be to rent a dingy one room apt. and save, save, save, to buy land. Then build the house myself, when I had the money to pay cash for it. Have seen several folks around here do that. Took them a couple of years to finish, but when done, the house was paid for.

My grandfather didn't blame his dad who was born before the Civil War by 13 years, for only being a sharecropper and renting a log cabin, until his children built them a house on his son's 70 acres. My dad didn't blame his dad for not having 2.00. I didn't blame my dad for not having 1500.00.

The point of the article is to excuse Gen X or whoever, and blaming someone else for their problems/ for the situation they are in.

When for hundreds of years generations have been in even worse situations in the economy, and didn't blame anyone else, just tried to cope with what they had. And make the best of it.

 

[CaryC]

While the "location" as in a state, it is not so much true, in an area.

Those 5 homes like I said are in 5 miles of me, and they are spread out in different directions on the compass, they are ALL country. But they do have running water, and a septic tank. (indoor plumbing).

But are not the only houses like that. A little town pop around 30,000 in the rough, got hit with a tornado, in the residential section a few years ago. Houses, trees etc, all tore up in that part of town. I thank the Lord that no one was even hurt, it was unbelievable that, that happened.

Some of the houses they finished tearing down and rebuilt. Some size 1000-1500 sq ft. Some they just fixed, same. Still empty. Roughly same prices. But not 4,000 sq ft or 400,000.00.

And this town is roughly 40 miles from Tupelo, BUT people want to live there because the school system is out of sight good, and the HS is the focus of the town. The drive is not a big deal.

So whether in town, or in the country (location) the situation is the same. For this state.

Now in GA it may be different, but did you check outside of Atlanta? What the homes were going for in the country? Granted the drive time will be bigger, but driving in Atlanta is a bugger anyway. BTDT.

I personally wouldn't live in town, any town, and forget big city. And if I had to do it over again I would change things up a bit.

My dad bought an acre on a state HWY gave 500.00 for it, and built a house on it. 1100 sq ft. 1970. When the house was finished he told me: Back during the depression, when he would stomp through that area, going hunting, that same land was for sale, without the state hwy running through it. Cost per acre 2.00. He didn't have 2.00. When he gave 500.00 for it, it was the last year he worked and was the first time he broke through 10,000.00 a year.

When I wanted to buy a house after marriage in 1977, an acre was 1500.00. I couldn't afford it.

But now, my priority would be to rent a dingy one room apt. and save, save, save, to buy land. Then build the house myself, when I had the money to pay cash for it. Have seen several folks around here do that. Took them a couple of years to finish, but when done, the house was paid for.

My grandfather didn't blame his dad who was born before the Civil War by 13 years, for only being a sharecropper and renting a log cabin, until his children built them a house on his son's 70 acres. My dad didn't blame his dad for not having 2.00. I didn't blame my dad for not having 1500.00.

The point of the article is to excuse Gen X or whoever, and blaming someone else for their problems/ for the situation they are in.

When for hundreds of years generations have been in even worse situations in the economy, and didn't blame anyone else, just tried to cope with what they had. And make the best of it.

And BTW the article makes out like the situation described in the article is Universal. It is not.

It's sort of like using South Side of Chicago, as your Universal Crime stats. It is not.

Or the rent prices in NYC are the same in Bodunk TN.

And if the situation where you live is not to your liking.....move. Been doing that since the 1620's.

 

[marsofold]

If parents don't want to help their kids out during tough times, they may find themselves abandoned in their old age.

 

[CaryC]

If parents don't want to help their kids out during tough times, they may find themselves abandoned in their old age.

I've seen the turn around be true as well.

Did everything they could for the kids, and were abandoned anyway.

BTW not knowing the situations with other people's kids, a person, any person, should do what is right regardless of what they get in return.

Even if you won't intervene in a child's inability to handle money, just so they will take care of you when old. It's never going to happen.

In situations where the child knows how to handle money, and say....gets laid off, the parent who can help, probably should and will, because it is the right thing to do, not because 40 years from now, the child will be there to take care of them.

 

[Rabbit]

In spite of the naysayers, I agree with the premise of the article. Are there Millennials and Zoomers who waste opportunities? Of course there are. As a Boomer I can think of some of my generation who did dumb things.

But my teaching career gave me some insight into what was happening TO younger generations and my observations of what was done after the 2008 financial crisis adds to the problems.

And quite frankly many of the structural problems that have hit the younger generations also hit the Boomers in the '90s with deindustrialization. It's just not widely acknowledged.

There is a reason why so many Boomers are stacking shelves at the supermarket, greeters at Walmart, etc. It's not just poor decision-making.

I'm fortunate in that I have been retired quite some time and between my pension and SS, I can still save money. But I understand full well that I benefitted from both the social capital and financial structure from my younger years.

In the 90s I was able to buy a duplex in a nice neighborhood. In the early 2000s, section 8 housing became a thing and rents went through the roof. And so did crime. A young couple that I knew were paying more in rent than was needed for payments for a starter home. They were millennials and scraping the down payment together for a home was impossible. They eventually moved in with his mother and were able to do it.

Having 0- bound treasuries for well over a decade has really created an imbalance for both younger and older generations. Assets prices are way too high and savings rates are way too low. There are risks at both ends of the spectrum.

And I think that this business of generational warfare is deliberate. Getting snarky about the shortcomings of each generation doesn't bode well for finding solutions.

Many buy into the hype and live beyond their means.

 

[Southern Hen]

I was 32 when my husband and I bought our first home.

We consider ourselves lucky to be able to land a relatively CHEAP interest rate of 10.5% with prepayment of two points out of pocket.

Interest rates were routinely 12 % just the year before.

And they had gotten up to 17% a few years earlier, in 1981.

 

[anna43]

But now, my priority would be to rent a dingy one room apt. and save, save, save, to buy land. Then build the house myself, when I had the money to pay cash for it. Have seen several folks around here do that. Took them a couple of years to finish, but when done, the house was paid for.

An acre in the country to build on sounds good, but with EPA regs sometimes you need 3 acres to put in a septic system. Always check zoning and all other building codes before buying your acre.

 

[raven]

If parents don't want to help their kids out during tough times, they may find themselves abandoned in their old age.

When those grifters come to "help" it costs more than a good plumber.
It is cheaper to rent a kid for a couple hours to help. You don't have to feed them and put them up for the night.
And you can get a block and tackle to help with the heavy lifting.

 

[marsofold]

You take your chances with the offspring helping out in your old age. I once read that girls fill that role much more often than boys. My brother Tom lived near my parents and did the lion's share of looking after my dad when he was on hospice. My wife and I drove from near Philadelphia to Pittsburgh every weekend. Worked all day Friday, then climbed into the car to drive the long PA Turnpike to the opposite end of the state. Left Sunday night and arrived back home late after dark. Did that for months until he died. My mom ended up selling her house, moving, and renting a small house near where my other brother lived in Virginia, who looked after her until she died.