WTF?!? Joe Biden Interferes in Brexit Talks, Takes EU's Side

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
www.breitbart.com /europe/2020/09/17/anti-british-joe-biden-interferes-in-brexit-talks-takes-eus-side/

'Anti-British' Joe Biden Interferes in Brexit Talks, Takes EU's Side
Jack Montgomery
3-4 minutes

Joe Biden has waded into the Brexit negotiations between the United Kingdom and the European Union on the EU’s side, signalling that, as President, he would punish the British for not submitting to EU control over the British province of Northern Ireland.

“We can’t allow the Good Friday Agreement that brought peace to Northern Ireland to become a casualty of Brexit,” declared Biden, who has previously claimed that “Ireland will be [found] written on my soul” when he dies — although his colonial ancestor William Biden appears to have been an Englishman.

“Any trade deal between the U.S. and UK must be contingent upon respect for the Agreement and preventing the return of a hard border. Period,” he insisted.

The Good Friday or Belfast Agreement ended the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) campaign of assassinations and terror bombings against the British authorities and civilians including schoolchildren, waged despite a clear majority of Northern Irish voters backing the province’s union with Great Britain in a 1973 referendum.

Its terms included with an agreement that convicted IRA terrorists would be freed and allowing Sinn Fein — the political party regarded by most as the IRA’s political wing — to enter into a power-sharing administration with Northern Ireland’s dominant British Unionist parties.

It has become something of an article of faith among EU sympathisers that any regulatory divergence between the British province of Northern Ireland and the EU member-state of the Republic of Ireland post-Brexit would breach the Good Friday Agreement by creating a so-called “hard border” between them — although it is not actually clear why, given such a border already exists with respect to differing currencies and Value Added Tax (VAT) regimes for goods without the need for a manned frontier.

But the alleged issue is being raised by the EU yet again due to the British government’s efforts to push through legislation that would allow them to disapply aspects of the current Withdrawal Agreement (WA) with the EU if it tries to use it to ban the importation of food to Northern Ireland from Great Britain.

The WA keeps Northern Ireland under the EU’s thumb with respect to regulations and state aid rules int the event of the UK and EU not agreeing a trade deal by the end of 2020 — a concession by the British in the name of maintaining the open border.

It is feared than “abusive” and “extreme” interpretations of this provision by the EU which would allow it to effectively blockade food travelling from one part of the UK to another and extend the EU’s control over state aid from Northern Ireland to businesses in Great Britain proper if they do business in the province is being used as leverage in the negotiations, necessitating the legislation for new powers to prevent this.

The fact that Biden is signalling his support for the EU amid the dispute, by threatening that he will block a British-American trade deal if he wins the presidency, has been viewed by Brexiteers such as Nigel Farage as evidence that he would be “an anti-British” president.

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Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
www.breitbart.com /europe/2020/09/17/former-uk-conservative-leader-biden-stay-out-of-brexit-worry-about-killing-rioting-usa/

Former Tory Leader to Biden: Stay Out of Brexit, Worry About BLM Rioting
Jack Montgomery
4-5 minutes

British Conservative politicians including a former party leader have told Joe Biden to stop “lecturing” Britain on Brexit and worry about stopping the “killing and rioting” in the U.S.

77-year-old Biden has waded into the acrimonious negotiations between the British and the European Union on the side of the EU, warning that, if elected, he will block a British-American trade deal if the British government does not submit to the EU’s demands with respect to Northern Ireland.

The globalist bloc is allegedly threatening to use the powers which it will retain over the British province of Northern Ireland in the event the EU and UK do not agree a trade deal to block food from being imported from the British mainland.

The British government had agreed that Northern Ireland would continue following EU regulations and state aid rules in the event of a ‘No Deal’ situation in order to maintain the open border with the EU member-state of Northern Ireland, but is now pushing forward legislation to disapply parts of this agreement if the EU interprets them in an “abusive” and “extreme” way.

The EU is enraged by this supposed breach of international law, and Biden appears to have taken its side, warning that he would punish Britain — but not the EU — if a so-called “hard” regulatory border between the two Irelands was created.

British Conservative MPs are firing back at the elderly presidential candidate, however, with former party leader and Cabinet member Sir Iain Duncan Smith being particularly combative.

“We don’t need lectures on the Northern Ireland peace deal from Mr Biden,” Sir Iain told The Times.

“If I were him I would worry more about the need for a peace deal in the USA to stop the killing and rioting before lecturing other sovereign nations,” he added.

David Davis MP, a former leadership contender and the inaugural Secretary of State for Brexit, suggested that Biden’s intervention was hypocritical, saying: “Perhaps Mr Biden should talk to the EU since the only threat of an invisible border in Ireland would be if they insisted on levying tariffs.”

Another MP, Joy Morrissey, was more even more straightforward, saying the Democrat’s interference was “clearly all about the Irish-American vote”.

Biden’s implicit demand that the British submit to EU demands on trade and regulations in order to preserve the open border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland was ostensibly in aid of the Good Friday or Belfast Agreement.

This saw the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) agree to stop assassinating British officials and bombing civilian targets including schoolgirls and remembrance ceremonies at war memorials in exchange for convicted terrorists being released and Sinn Fein, widely regarded as its political wing, allowed to enter a power-sharing arrangement on the local executive.

The IRA waged its terror campaign despite a large majority of Northern Irish voters backing the province’s union with Great Britain in a 1973 referendum.

It is also not entirely clear which Northern Ireland and the Irish republic having different regulations or state aid rules would actually break the peace treaty, as a so-called “hard border” in this respect would not actually have to be physical.

A “hard border” between the two territories already exists for the purposes of Value Added Tax (VAT) and currency, for example, without the treaty being effected.

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Melodi

Disaster Cat
Oh but on this one, it isn't just Biden, but practically every one of Irish background that isn't descended from Ulster Scotts and knows anything about the Irish situation.

I won't repeat it here, I've written dozen and dozen of pages trying to explain why Northern Ireland isn't a normal border and half the people who live there don't even consider themselves part of the UK and how being in the EU buried that problem effectively for over 20 years. Not to mention it stopped a full-blown civil war that had gone on for decades.

What people are furious about - including half the Conservative Party in the UK and most living previous Tory Prime Ministers is that Boris Johnson campaigned on, won an election on, and then pass a treaty that he is now breaking.

Yep, just breaking, even his own cabinet official admitted they were "breaking the law in a limited way" (which led to a hilarious comic song I posted on the long thread).

While who knows exactly what Biden is thinking (if there is much thinking going on there anymore) this is NOT another Big Bad EU tries to Control the UK after BREXIT or prevent it.

It is a case of Boris Johnson signing and then deciding to violate his own treaty, his OWN PARTY REVOLTED, and has insisted that at the very least the bill has to include a vote in Parliament if the treaty is actually broken in reality rather than just a threat to do so.

The original way the bill was written would have let BoJo just decide on his own to break the very treaty he helped write and create - the result of which could end up with a hard border on the island of Ireland.

And I am not Trump bashing when I suggest that on the topic of Northern Ireland Trump has proved either unwilling or unable to grasp the complexity of the situation or the horrors that could happen if things fall apart there.

Of course, the main reason the UK "allowed" Northern Devolution was because they couldn't afford a fully militarized border and policing a Civil War, but I gather quite a number of older Tory Party Members are doing their best to remind Boris Johnson of that "little problem."
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
As I've followed Johnson's machinations in the UK, I've been getting the feeling that he planned to sabotage it all along. He's not an honest man.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
As I've followed Johnson's machinations in the UK, I've been getting the feeling that he planned to sabotage it all along. He's not an honest man.
Exactly, so far several of his cabinet ministers have resigned over this one - he may force it through Parliament because he has made it clear he is ruthless enough to "take the party whip" away from anyone who defies him on certain types of votes (including Churchill's grandson).

But that said, most people are pretty shocked (even stanch BREXITER's) and while I hate to see this spill over into US politics if BoJo breaks his OWN treaty with the EU, there is nothing stopping him from breaking a future Trade Treaty with the USA or anyone else.

At this point, I suspect if BoJo doesn't get a clue he will get a "no confidence" vote from his own party sooner or later, at which point he will no longer be party leader or Prime Minister; though the conservatives would stay in power until a new election was called.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Boris Johnson faces Conservative backbench rebellion over new law
The Bill will break international law by overriding parts of Brexit withdrawal deal
Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 01:00
Denis Staunton London Editor
LISTEN NOW 03:13



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Speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show, Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney says Boris Johnson’s suggestion that the EU would blockade food to Northern Ireland is “spin and not the truth".

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Boris Johnson faces a Conservative backbench rebellion on Monday when MPs debate a Bill his government admits will break international law by overriding parts of the Brexit withdrawal agreement. A number of senior Conservatives, including chairs of parliamentary committees, have said they will not support the Bill and some are backing an amendment that would require a new parliamentary vote before the measures breaching the withdrawal agreement come into effect.
Justice secretary Robert Buckland defended the Bill on Sunday but said he would resign if the government broke the law in a way he found unacceptable.
“If we get to this stage there will be a conflict between our domestic law position and our international law position, it is the duty of the British government to seek to resolve that conflict as soon as possible. That is what I would expect the government to do. That is what we will do. We’ve been in this position before when we’ve had incompatibilities with international law obligations, we’ve always sought to resolve them, and we have resolved them. And this will be absolutely no exception,” he told the BBC.
“If I see the rule of law being broken in a way that I find unacceptable, then of course I will go. We are not at that stage.”


The UK Internal Market Bill is one of two pieces of legislation which would breach the withdrawal agreement by giving British ministers the power to decide unilaterally how parts of the Northern Ireland protocol should be implemented.
They could determine which goods moving from Britain to Northern Ireland are deemed at risk of proceeding into the EU’s single market and what documentation must accompany goods moving in the opposite direction. Britain would also be able to unilaterally limit the scope and reach of the protocol’s measures governing state aid to business.

Mr Johnson on Saturday accused the EU of threatening to “blockade” Northern Ireland by stopping the transport of food products from Britain. This could happen if the EU does not list Britain as an approved third country to export food into the EU.
EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier dismissed the claim that the protocol threatens the integrity of the UK, adding that the EU is not refusing to list Britain as a third country for food exports. He said that for any country to be listed, the EU must know what its rules are, including for imports.
His British counterpart David Frost responded in a series of tweets, saying Britain needed new powers to ensure that the protocol protects the balance of the Belfast Agreement. He said the EU knew the details of Britain’s food standards because they were the same as the EU’s and would not change overnight when the transition period ends on December 31st.
“I am afraid it has also been said to us explicitly in these talks that if we are not listed we will not be able to move food to Northern Ireland. The EU’s position is that listing is needed for Great Britain only, not Northern Ireland. So if Great Britain were not listed, it would be automatically illegal for Northern Ireland to import food products from Great Britain. I hope the EU will yet think better of this. It obviously makes it no easier to negotiate a good free trade agreement and the solid future relationship which we all want,” he said.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Boris Johnson warned plans to break international law over Brexit could have ‘catastrophic consequences’ for UK’s reputation
Exclusive: Former diplomatic and security officials raise alarm over ‘short-sighted tactics which will do much harm in wider world’

Kim Sengupta,Ashley Cowburn@ashcowburn
4 days ago
27 comments


The government’s decision to break international law over Brexit could have “catastrophic” consequences for Britain, gravely damaging the country’s reputation and undermining relations with allies while empowering adversaries, senior former diplomatic and security officials have warned.
There is also deep concern about the seeming breakdown of relations between Downing Street and the civil service with the resignation of Jonathan Jones, the head of the government’s legal department, in protest at the government’s actions seen as the latest example of this development.
Lord Butler, who was head of the civil service for 10 years, said he had never encountered anything as “difficult” as the current turmoil during his time as cabinet secretary and warned that the government had undermined the UK on the international stage.

Boris Johnson has put forward only “weak” arguments to support the changes he wants to make to the EU withdrawal agreement, Lord Butler added.

Former officials have also expressed disquiet at constant attacks on the judiciary, media and others who challenge the government, in what is seen as emulating the practices of the Trump administration in the US.
The consternation about what is happening from those who have served the country comes as the prime minister faces a growing rebellion from Conservative MPs and peers to the proposed legislation which overrides key parts of the EU withdrawal agreement, with a former minister, Bob Neill, trying to organise a parliamentary veto.
Read more
There is also rising criticism of the British government’s conduct among European politicians and officials. The EU has already warned that it may take legal action if the British government went ahead with its breach of the treaty.
The assessment of the damage the government is doing to the UK is damning. It has been pointed out that this country has repeatedly criticised states like Russia and China for breaking the “rules-based international order” and yet now holds that it is perfectly justified to breach international law.
Asked by The Independent whether civil servants had been put in a difficult position by the government, Lord Butler said: “Yes, well I think it might, [Jonathan] Jones felt so strongly about it that he felt he had to resign his position. That’s as it were a moral decision on his part, but that’s a different thing from a breach of the civil service code.”
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
THE STAGGERS

8 SEPTEMBER 2020
Is it possible to break international law “in a limited way”?
Governments do put aside international law on occasion, but the UK appears poised to make a more significant departure.
ns_stephen_bush_byline_drawing_-_smaller.jpg

BYSTEPHEN BUSH

Boris Johnson looks glum.


UK Prime Minister, Boris Johnson
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Brandon Lewis, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, has admitted that the government’s plans to unpick the Irish border protocol – the agreement, signed by the British government when we left the European Union, to maintain an invisible border on the island of Ireland by ensuring a continuing degree of regulatory and customs alignment between Northern Ireland and Ireland – breaks international law, but “in a limited way”.
Is that possible? Well, yes and no. Governments do sometimes put aside international law for uncontroversial reasons. The invention of a new technology, or a problem not envisaged by a treaty, could require updated legislation. When domestic governments do this, it is not contested by other countries. We don’t know what the detail of the government’s Internal Market Bill contains, but there’s a simple test we can apply here: if it’s routine, then the Irish government won’t care. If it’s not routine, then they will.
For example, in 2013, the UK introduced the general anti-abuse rule (GAAR) which broke international law in order to combat new forms of tax evasion. This was uncontroversial, at least from a “rule of law” perspective, though it was sharply criticised both from the left, and by some industry bodies. And in the event that border technologies develop to a point where the Irish border protocol becomes a dead letter, British and Irish governments might legislate in ways that run contrary to international law.
But the material circumstances have not changed: quite the reverse, in fact. It is hard to see how the British government could unpick the Irish border protocol without entering unprecedented terrain. Unlike in the case of the GAAR, it would not be a reaction to changing times, and it would be fiercely contested by other countries.
 

WalknTrot

Veteran Member
Biden best keep out of it, or he will end up uniting all of them against HIM. What a putz.

UK is prolly going to end up crashing out Dec. 31. The Irish problem will sort despite all the pearl-clutching. People better figure whether that old chestnut is a hill worth dying on anymore. And the EU better look/see what side their bread is buttered on, too.
 

Plain Jane

Just Plain Jane
Biden is trying to appeal to working class Irish in this country because the signs of moderate working class stampeding from the Democrats is pretty frightening. Biden never thought of this on his own.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Biden best keep out of it, or he will end up uniting all of them against HIM. What a putz.

UK is prolly going to end up crashing out Dec. 31. The Irish problem will sort despite all the pearl-clutching. People better figure whether that old chestnut is a hill worth dying on anymore. And the EU better look/see what side their bread is buttered on, too.
Sadly, I think you are wrong about the pearl-clutching - I mean I'll be DELIGHTED if you are right and if a hard border is avoided you probably will be (and I do hope this happens).

But, there has already been a return to some limited violence and "dissident" activity on BOTH sides up there already and it does leak down here.

If a hard border goes back up with actual physical customs checks - and they have to seal off nearly 100 roads again, some of which now go through working farms and down the middle of villages; well I suspect the civil war will start again by next July's "Marching Season" if it isn't in full swing before then.

And this time, given the general atmosphere of the world, I don't think it will be as scattered as it was when we moved here - yeah the house two doors down was firebombed when I was visiting, and yeah the Street Fair with Reenactor's market bombing killed about 30 people (and their original target was the week before at the one we were at); but hundreds died over the years (in the late 20th century) not thousands or millions.

Civil Wars today tend to get much more "active" and I'd hate to move again, but I don't want to live a few hours drive from a modern Syria or even Ukraine either.

But we shall see, if they can just avoid that HARD border which the original agreement does do, then I think it will all kind of work out even though it may take some time and the road be a bit patchy before it gets there.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Now Trump's envoy makes it clear this isn't just about Biden or the Democrats ....
Trump envoy warns UK against creating hard border
Updated / Friday, 18 Sep 2020 07:05

Mick Mulvaney said US authorities 'would all be aligned in the desire to see the Good Friday Agreement preserved to see the lack of a border maintained'

Mick Mulvaney said US authorities 'would all be aligned in the desire to see the Good Friday Agreement preserved to see the lack of a border maintained'

US President Donald Trump's special envoy to Northern Ireland, Mick Mulvaney, has warned against creating a "hard border by accident" on the island of Ireland.

British Prime Minister Prime Minister Boris Johnson is proposing new legislation that would break the Northern Ireland protocol of the Brexit divorce treaty that seeks to avoid a physical customs border on the island of Ireland.

"The Trump administration, State Department and the US Congress would all be aligned in the desire to see the Good Friday Agreement preserved to see the lack of a border maintained," Mr Mulvaney said in an interview with the Financial Times.

His remark comes two days after US Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden warned Britain that it must honour the 1998 agreement as it withdraws from the European Union or there would be no separate US trade deal.



Latest Brexit stories

Meanwhile the European Commission chief has said she is "convinced" a trade deal remains possible with the UK but called Mr Johnson's attempt to override the Brexit treaty an "unpleasant surprise".

Ursula von der Leyen, in comments made to reporters yesterday, said Downing Street's controversial UK Internal Market Bill had "distracted very strongly" from the two sides being able to secure fresh trade terms before the looming deadline.

The post-Brexit transition period, during which relations between the EU and the UK have remained static, is due to end after 31 December and leaders on both sides of the Channel have warned that an agreement is needed by October if a deal is to be ratified in time for the start of 2021.

With the cliff edge only a month away, Mr Johnson has faced criticism domestically and on the world stage for pursuing legislation that would defy the Withdrawal Agreement brokered with the EU last year, breaking international law in the process.

Mr Johnson was forced on Wednesday to agree to table an amendment to the Internal Market Bill, giving MPs a vote before the Government can use the powers related to Northern Ireland which would breach the treaty.

But the compromise has not seen Brussels back down, with Eric Mamer, chief spokesman for the European Commission, telling a press briefing that its position had not changed and it still wanted the offending clauses to be withdrawn from the legislation.

Despite the wrangle over the Bill - which has been derided by every living former prime minister, scores of senior Tory backbenchers, Mr Biden and Brussels - commission president Ms von der Leyen said she remained sure that consensus on a future partnership with the UK could be reached.

It comes after she used her annual State of the Union address to the European Parliament on Wednesday to warn Mr Johnson the UK could not unilaterally set aside the Withdrawal Agreement.


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