TRANS Insuring us Out of Driving

Cardinal

Chickministrator
_______________

The cost of new vehicles – which now “transact” for about $50k on average – is such that a large and growing number of people can no longer afford them. That’s not so bad, though – right? Because no one has to buy a new vehicle. True. But the cost of insuring the vehicle you have has been going up double digits annually – 25 percent, on average – for the past two years.

If this continues, what then?

Many people who were paying very little for a liability-only policy – which everyone who owns a car is required by law to buy as the condition of being allowed to drive – are now paying a lot more, even though they have not done anything to justify the double-digit increase in the cost of this coverage, which doesn’t actually cover anything except the hypothetical cost of repairing damage to some other person’s vehicle, if the “insured” is involved in an accident with some other person’s vehicle.

If that vehicle is someone else’s late-model $50,000 (or more) vehicle, it will cost hugely to repair it or – if the damage is bad enough – replace it. That anticipated cost is transferred onto the shoulders of the people who did not buy the $50,000 (or more) vehicle – or damage it. It is merely the hypothetical that justifies the actual – in the form of the double digit increase in the cost of this coverage.

Now, play this out a little.


Is the cost of new vehicles continuing to go up? What will happen to the cost of insurance when a new vehicle transacts for $60,000? We’ll all be paying for that.

Some won’t be able to – and then they won’t be allowed o drive (legally).

A person who does not own a $50,000 (or more) vehicle who was paying $300 annually for a basic, liability-only policy on his low-book-value old vehicle – which he keeps because he does not want to (or cannot afford to) take on the $800 monthly payment it takes to finance a $50,000-ish vehicle over six years – is being gradually pushed into making insurance payments that he eventually will not longer be able afford to make. Because other people choose to buy $50,000-plus vehicles – and because he is forced to pay what it costs to “cover” repairs to these vehicles.

Axiom:

Whenever you’re forced to buy something, that something is going to cost more rather than less. The cost of insurance coverage is no different.

Consider what happened to the cost of a simple, “catastrophic care” only health insurance policy that pays for nothing routine and only for the costs of extreme events unlikely to happen, such as a stroke. The cost of this coverage was reasonable – until the federal government (under Obama) decreed that everyone and everything be “covered,” including routine check-ups and tests. Naturally, these tests and so on became very expensive and everyone who was forced to buy insurance got to pay for that, even if they themselves avoided going to the doctor unless they really needed to.

Presto! Health insurance – a silly term, when you think about it a little since no one’s health can be insured – now costs so much working and middle income people can’t afford it. But they are forced to pay for it.


Car insurance at government-point works the same way. When you’re not allowed to say no – and when you’re forced to assume the burden of hypothetical costs imposed by other people, whose decisions you have no control over whatsoever, is it surprising that the cost of insurance has increased by double digits over just the past couple of years? The question now is: How much more will it increase – and how long will it be before people in large numbers are priced out of owning a vehicle, even a low-value old one, on account of being unable to pay for the insurance the government requires they carry?

It will likely not be long – given the rising cost of everything else.

Groceries, for instance. A $100 bill that used to buy a shopping cart full of staples now bags two plastic bags of them. In most parts of the country, the cost of the property taxes homeowners (sic) are forced to pay in order to avoid being evicted from what is of course not actually their home has also gone up – especially in the rural (and red) areas where these taxes were once low, on account of hordes of refugees from red areas moving into those areas to escape the high cost of living in a red area and bringing those costs with them. They often build huge homes twice the size of the modest homes in the area and thus – via raised assessments – increase the cost of the natives’ taxes, very much in the way that the affluent few who can afford to buy a $50,000 (and more) vehicle pass on the costs to those who didn’t buy one.


It is pretty obvious that owning and driving a car is becoming a kind of luxury – and luxuries are things most people cannot afford. It is not difficult to see where this leads. Whether intentional or not, the end result is the same. Working and middle income people (such as are left) will inevitably be forced to give up owning and driving cars they can no longer afford to insure.

We’ll know whether it is by design if nothing is done to ease the burden on those who are not incurring the costs.

This could be done in a free market-ish manner by limiting the cost of mandatory insurance coverage to covering the cost of repairing or replacing hypothetical losses up to say $30,000 – which would cover modestly priced vehicles. Let those who choose to buy a vehicle that costs more than $30,000 buy additional coverage to offset the cost of potential losses.

It’s entirely reasonable and so entirely fair.

And that’s exactly why it’s as likely to happen as Fauci being manacled and sent to prison for the rest of his miserable life.

. . .
 

PrairieMoon

Veteran Member
We just purchased (actually, DH won the bid for a company van - 2016 Town & Country with 134,000 miles on it) for $4250. Side door doesn't work...yet. He'll try to fix it, otherwise it works great! Now we have 5 vehicles and this one is our best one! LOL!!

Our insurance is $1800 per year for 5 cars, 1 boat, 2 jet-skies, and the house. Liability only.
 

Blacknarwhal

Three-Time Trump Voter
Your credit score can effect your insurance rates too.

Very true. I have no credit, myself. Paid cash for everything. I can't tell you how many times I've had to pay advance fees for any kind of service. And my insurance costs look about like they did 20 years ago, when I was paying Stupid Kid rates. Every so often I harangue the agency about this, trying to find out WHY my rates are extortionate, only to discover my "insurance score" is low. Asking for more information provides a lot of hemming and hawing and "we'll ask the head office," but never any actual change.
 

West

Senior
Just like the seat belt law...."it's for your own good"

Once our government has gotten most the population/citizenry priced out of owning a car/home by mandate....

Next, no bad guns for you. No private property for the poor.....but hey you got free health insurance.....NOW take your vaccine citizen! Or we take that away too!
 

Signwatcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I had been with AAA since I started driving on my Folks' dime.

I switched once in the '90s because it got way too expensive.

Checked AAA out and found they were comparable to what I had at the time and I wasn't happy that the company I was with just decided to put a non-relative on our policy when she had her OWN insurance. They did it without notifying me. Just sent a new bill with NO explanation.

So I went back to AAA. Until this year when AAA REALLY jumped in premium amount.

Went with State Farm and it's saving me $4,000 a year between both vehicles and house.

AAA is toast in my book. Insurance is getting unreal.
 

naegling62

Veteran Member
My brother’s friend tried to get commercial insurance in Florida for a new $40,000 tractor, they wanted $900 a month for insurance only. He’s gonna purchase the insurance through his farm in Georgia.

My brother thinks the insurance companies in Florida are intentionally giving ridiculous quotes trying to manage who they give insurance to.
 

ivantherussian03

Veteran Member
You’re better off buying a proven model for durability and high mileage for 500 or thousand. Buy it with 200k of miles, then repair as needed. I had a truck with 200 k on it, that was 30 yrs old, sold it for 500 bucks because wife wouldn’t be caught dead riding in it. I still see it driving around and was 15 yrs ago. That engine can last 400 k.
 
I had been with AAA since I started driving on my Folks' dime.

I switched once in the '90s because it got way too expensive.

Checked AAA out and found they were comparable to what I had at the time and I wasn't happy that the company I was with just decided to put a non-relative on our policy when she had her OWN insurance. They did it without notifying me. Just sent a new bill with NO explanation.

So I went back to AAA. Until this year when AAA REALLY jumped in premium amount.

Went with State Farm and it's saving me $4,000 a year between both vehicles and house.

AAA is toast in my book. Insurance is getting unreal.
not sure what state you are in but, I can tell you first hand regarding AAA insurance- in the state of California the rates went up twice last year- the first rate increase was mandated by the state for all insurance companies within the state, the second one was AAA on its own. As far as a non relative on the policy, if they live in your house and have their own insurance they are excluded, which means they are listed because they are in your home, however you are not paying for them as they have their own policy- the company cannot add someone to your policy unless you specify it yourself, and excluded or non-rated driver can't just walk in and say I wanna be on this policy. The first named insured is the only one allowed to make those changes to the policy.

Can you guess where I work? lol
 

Signwatcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
not sure what state you are in but, I can tell you first hand regarding AAA insurance- in the state of California the rates went up twice last year- the first rate increase was mandated by the state for all insurance companies within the state, the second one was AAA on its own. As far as a non relative on the policy, if they live in your house and have their own insurance they are excluded, which means they are listed because they are in your home, however you are not paying for them as they have their own policy- the company cannot add someone to your policy unless you specify it yourself, and excluded or non-rated driver can't just walk in and say I wanna be on this policy. The first named insured is the only one allowed to make those changes to the policy.

Can you guess where I work? lol

I'm in the Mitten State, which gets to pay for one of the highest insurance rates in the Country. Detroit is to blame for some of that.
 
I'm in the Mitten State, which gets to pay for one of the highest insurance rates in the Country. Detroit is to blame for some of that.
Thats unfortunate- I’m sorry- if you are still with AAA, go to your local office, tell them you want to update your mileage. Keep in mind, the more you are in your car, the more risk the insurance company is taking on, the less you drive…the better- another way to combat the high premiums is to increase deductibles, if you don't drive much- go for a 250.00 comp and 1000.00 collision- or if you are comfortable go liability only…

hope some of that helps you out
 

rob0126

Veteran Member
My brother’s friend tried to get commercial insurance in Florida for a new $40,000 tractor, they wanted $900 a month for insurance only. He’s gonna purchase the insurance through his farm in Georgia.

My brother thinks the insurance companies in Florida are intentionally giving ridiculous quotes trying to manage who they give insurance to.

When I was a courier, I had to have commercial insurance on the 2 vehicles I drove.

Shelter Ins. in IN was the only reasonable company.
Everybody else wanted an arm and a leg.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I can only speak for myself but my car insurance has remained the same for the past 3 years, 712 for 6 months full coverage. I could get it lower if I signed up for their "Drivewise" program which tracks the driving habits but I want no part of that surveillance.
Same here.

Around 500 - 6 months for a 2023 Rav 4. Full coverage.

Around 250 - 6 months for 2002 Jeep. Full coverage.

I also called and told them how many miles I drive a year. The Rav. is 2 years old and has 8,000 miles on it, (Last month) the Jeep has 134,000 so my mileage which adds a lot to the price of insurance is very low.

No property tax.

House insurance has gone up, but that is more due to inflation. The house is valued 3x+ more than what I gave for it.
 

223shootersc

Veteran Member
I had been with AAA since I started driving on my Folks' dime.

I switched once in the '90s because it got way too expensive.

Checked AAA out and found they were comparable to what I had at the time and I wasn't happy that the company I was with just decided to put a non-relative on our policy when she had her OWN insurance. They did it without notifying me. Just sent a new bill with NO explanation.

So I went back to AAA. Until this year when AAA REALLY jumped in premium amount.

Went with State Farm and it's saving me $4,000 a year between both vehicles and house.

AAA is toast in my book. Insurance is getting unreal.
Love State Farm have had insurance with them since 1979 and never had a claim denied and is still cheaper than most all of the others. I do bundle house and two vehicles.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
You’re better off buying a proven model for durability and high mileage for 500 or thousand. Buy it with 200k of miles, then repair as needed. I had a truck with 200 k on it, that was 30 yrs old, sold it for 500 bucks because wife wouldn’t be caught dead riding in it. I still see it driving around and was 15 yrs ago. That engine can last 400 k.
I am basically doing the same with my truck. Though I bought it new. I am going to keep repairing it until it can no longer be effectively repaired. Why?

It is a heck of a lot cheaper to keep and repair than buy new
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Love State Farm have had insurance with them since 1979 and never had a claim denied and is still cheaper than most all of the others. I do bundle house and two vehicles.
They have my cars, and same, same. Can't do my house, live to far out. The only company that will do mine is Farm Bureau.

But if the house catches it will burn down in 7 minutes and the local volunteer fire dept. won't stand a chance. It's what they told us about our WWII wooden barracks. And this house is a 1930's model.
 

SurvivalRing

Rich Fleetwood - Founder - author/coder/podcaster
I’ve got full coverage on my 2019 Dodge Grand Caravan, and it’s roughly $105 a month. We’ve been paying this since we bought the van in October 2021. It’s gone up a couple of bucks since, but it works for us.

With hundreds of emails over the last year, I’ve signed up on multiple accounts to try to find a better price. Nothing. Out of 15 to 20 insurance companies, most of them forwarded to State Farm. A few to progressive.

The absolute worst was The Hartford…at $250 a month for my full coverage choices.

Oh, sure…I can find any number of low cost insurance options…for liability ONLY.

The only accidents I’ve been in the last 30 years were being side swiped by a semi at 75 mph in Dallas (not driving), and rear ended by the drunk/high bitch exactly two months later on 4/17/18 in Florence, Kentucky.

We’ve been with Geico for 23 years and no claims.

To me, it’s all a scam…
 

ktrapper

Veteran Member
Mine runs $204 a month for for two trucks and my deck over trailer full coverage. 2013 and a 2005.
I have thought several times about dropping to liability only but if we were to hit a elk or a deer and or, God forbid, anther vehicle, and total one out at least I would get market value out of it as a down payment on another one. I will never buy new again but am currently looking at one ton diesels. Insurance on my Skid Steer is figured in with the payment.
 

Griz3752

Retired, practising Curmudgeon
Your credit score can effect your insurance rates too.
still not sure how that is justified unless it's related to an insured inability to pay -if so, sounds like a ploy to force those w/ poor credit to purchase a secondary policy to cover shortfalls in satisfyingly a judgment.
 

justme

Senior Member
$2,200.00 dollars a year for 3 vehicle's here in Michigan. Two pl/pd and one full coverage. Auto Owners. No claims filed. Pisses me off every year when I get that bill and it jumps another 80 to a hundred dollars. Did I mention no claims filed.
 

teedee

Veteran Member
Back in 1967 I purchased a Sunbeam Tiger, kind of a lower cost Cobra. I had real trouble purchasing insurance. I was paying something like $600 a year for the minimum coverage required by Illinois. I was down at the gas station one day and there were 3 farmers bitching about what their car insurance cost. They has 5 vehicles between them and were paying less than I was for my one car. I do need to say that the insurance co. (and I ) were very lucky that I never had to use the coverage!
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I well remember back in the '70s when mandatory liability insurance began to be required in most states. I was opposed to it then and remain opposed to it. It's just more of the never-ending, ever-grasping, totalitarian, government control and - of course - it was a boon to the insurance industry. Further, it merely transfers some of the cost of injuries to the indigent from the government to private citizens.

Look, I'm not opposed to insurance. It can be a very good thing for some people, some of the time. It is a terrible thing when people are forced to buy it!

In every state that I'm aware of, one can purchase uninsured or under-insured policies. You could do that before mandatory insurance became the law of the land, too. FWIW, I carry uninsured motorist insurance.

Insurance should be a voluntary purchase; not one forced down our throats by .gov.

Best
Doc
 

rob0126

Veteran Member
still not sure how that is justified unless it's related to an insured inability to pay -if so, sounds like a ploy to force those w/ poor credit to purchase a secondary policy to cover shortfalls in satisfyingly a judgment.
idk either. I asked an insurance lady one time why my credit score affects what I pay. She said I have no idea.

I found out about this years ago when I was in tech school. My teacher use to work for one of the credit reporting agencies and let us in on that.

Still never got a straight answer on why.

My theory is, because the banksters run the nation and they pretty much do what they want.
 

WalknTrot

Veteran Member
Running your credit rating (for most people) gives insurance companies and other businesses, landlords, etc. a window into how likely you are to pay your bills, how financially responsible you are, and frankly, how likely you are to be a PIA for them. The reasoning is pretty obvious, and probably pretty indicative. They play dumb and don't tell you that to your face? They don't want to get into an argument with you or insult you.

For people who never used credit but are financially responsible, and have a low rating, it does stink, but if you play the game, it's pretty easy to establish a good rating without going into debt. Your choice to play the game or not.
 
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