ECON I will disobey Trump's Payroll Tax EO to defund social security

[The Cub]

this just totally confuses me with number 1, so if elected he is going to stop payroll taxes that fund our social security? I saw a post on Facebook stating that and I cannot lose my social security as many others cannot! Are the older people suppose to die?

Stay cool.....Trump is not about to abolish or impair SS or medicare......He is simply talking about DELAYING a few months funding.

NOW.....having said that....Trump and most of the financial world realize that there is a MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM looming.

The whole system is coming down. The US and the rest of the world are bankrupt.

 

[The Cub]

Errr.....ahhhh...

I think that Trump just tore up Pelosi's proposal.

Paybacks are hell.

President Trump Signs Four Executive Orders Providing Middle Class Economic Relief Due to COVID-19... - The Last Refuge

Today President Trump announced four executive orders targeted to help the majority of Americans as democrats in congress refuse to help. Democrats in DC are holding middle-class economic relief hostage so they can force massive taxpayer bailouts on Blue states. To avoid the loggerhead battle...

theconservativetreehouse.com

 

[Dennis Olson]

this just totally confuses me with number 1, so if elected he is going to stop payroll taxes that fund our social security? I saw a post on Facebook stating that and I cannot lose my social security as many others cannot! Are the older people suppose to die?

The dems are trying to panic the elderly. Evidently it’s working in your case.

EVERYTHING THEY SAY AND EVERYTHING THEY DO IS TO GET TRUMP OUT IN NOVEMBER.

You need to never forget that. If you panic, they win.

 

[West]

Stay cool.....Trump is not about to abolish or impair SS or medicare......He is simply talking about DELAYING a few months funding.

NOW.....having said that....Trump and most of the financial world realize that there is a MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM looming.

The whole system is coming down. The US and the rest of the world are bankrupt.

That's the reality of it.

 

[Craftypatches]

But number one executive order said he would make those tax cuts permanent if elected for people under $100,000. How will it be able to stay if he is elected?

 

[Dennis Olson]

But number one executive order said he would make those tax cuts permanent if elected for people under $100,000. How will it be able to stay if he is elected?

You’re misreading it. Normally, the payroll taxes would have to be paid back. The legislation would be to forgive the 5 months that they weren’t withheld. Calm down.

 

[thompson]

this just totally confuses me with number 1, so if elected he is going to stop payroll taxes that fund our social security? I saw a post on Facebook stating that and I cannot lose my social security as many others cannot! Are the older people suppose to die?

COME on!

NO. That's not going to happen. You need to get off Fakebook!

 

[thompson]

The dems are trying to panic the elderly. Evidently it’s working in your case.

EVERYTHING THEY SAY AND EVERYTHING THEY DO IS TO GET TRUMP OUT IN NOVEMBER.

You need to never forget that. If you panic, they win.

^ THIS!

 

[Craftypatches]

Ok, I read the executive order if he’s elected he would suspend the Payroll taxes, do you mean that’s just what they owed up until then? Maybe I am misunderstanding this. Sorry!

 

[Dennis Olson]

Yes, you are misunderstanding.

 

[TammyinWI]

So it's a good law (FICA taxes) where many people die every day who have paid 15% into the system with their blood labours who get not one penny back to their estates?

Would God approve that?

Read the book of James, he says no. And gives awarning to the rich.

Or does a big wrong makes the good things right?

Deut. 25
13-15 “In all your transactions you must use accurate scales and honest measurements, so that you will have a long, good life in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

 

[West]

Deut. 25
13-15 “In all your transactions you must use accurate scales and honest measurements, so that you will have a long, good life in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

I was thinking James 5-4...

For listen! Hear the cries of the field workers whom you have cheated of their pay. The cries of those who harvest your fields have reached the ears of the Lord of Heaven’s Armies.

 

[mattbert]

income tax is unconstitutional you dip shit.

True! (but not tax advice, lol)

 

[20Gauge]

this just totally confuses me with number 1, so if elected he is going to stop payroll taxes that fund our social security? I saw a post on Facebook stating that and I cannot lose my social security as many others cannot! Are the older people suppose to die?

Payroll taxes do not fund SS/Medicare. Taxes in general fund SS/Medicare. This changed in 1969. Income taxes, payroll taxes, import taxes, creation of money / borrowing all fund SS / Medicare

 

[20Gauge]

You’re misreading it. Normally, the payroll taxes would have to be paid back. The legislation would be to forgive the 5 months that they weren’t withheld. Calm down.

I understood the same.

I did a bit more reading and the devil will be in the details for sure. Based upon how W2s and income taxes are normally paid, this is going to be very confusing. We will need to wait for better details from the IRS / Treasury before we know exactly how this will work. For example, though I understood it was for the last 5 months of the year, the EO states anyone making less than 100k, so one question that comes to mind, do we get a rebate for the previous 7 months.

 

[20Gauge]

But number one executive order said he would make those tax cuts permanent if elected for people under $100,000. How will it be able to stay if he is elected?

He is counting on a Republican congress.

 

[20Gauge]

This is true like it's never been true before.
The Pres giving an additional $300 in unemployment benefits which will only be paid if the states kick in an additional $100 is brilliant for 2 reasons.
1st Pelosi won't dare sue in court to stop this because it'll put the Dems on record as the party that stopped giving enhanced unemployment to needy unemployed folks. Trump got the jump on Pelosi before she could lay blame on the Repubs for stalling the deal.
2nd Since Liberal Dem states will be the likely ones to oppose this, they will alienate their own unemployed people against them. Again Trump gets the jump on Dems before they can lay the blame on Repubs. The Dem states will somehow find the additional $100 bucks.

The deferment of SS tax also can be a win for the Pres.
Right now everyone was worried if they would have a huge SS tax bill due in January.
BUT, the Pres has already tweeted that IF he is re=elected he will attempt to get the due SS tax forgiven or cancelled.
Forgiving taxes is something the Dems would never think of doing.
Basically the President has told the American people, "Elect me and I'll get the 5 months of 15% taxes on your salary forgiven. Elect Biden and you have a huge tax bill due even before Biden would assume office.

Pelosi and the Dems overplayed their hand in refusing to negotiate and Trump got the jump on them before they could blame the whole thing on the Repubs.
Well played Mr Trump! This is the first time I've seen such a masterful end run around the Dems, to put them in the spot of either agreeing with the President or having to play the bad guys in this economic crisis..

I am starting to believe those who are he plays 3D chess.

 

[20Gauge]

this just totally confuses me with number 1, so if elected he is going to stop payroll taxes that fund our social security? I saw a post on Facebook stating that and I cannot lose my social security as many others cannot! Are the older people suppose to die?

Eventually older people are going to die. This is why they are called older people.

The payroll taxes do not fund SS/Medicare. The treasury funds it as does Congress annually.

 

[SmithJ]

I understood the same.

I did a bit more reading and the devil will be in the details for sure. Based upon how W2s and income taxes are normally paid, this is going to be very confusing. We will need to wait for better details from the IRS / Treasury before we know exactly how this will work. For example, though I understood it was for the last 5 months of the year, the EO states anyone making less than 100k, so one question that comes to mind, do we get a rebate for the previous 7 months.

Actually I think it’s for 4 months. Starts Sept 1.

And on people over $100k, do they get postponed on wages under $100, or do they get no benefit at all? Unclear, at this point.

Not much detail. The devil will be in the treasury implementation.

 

[20Gauge]

Actually I think it’s for 4 months. Starts Sept 1.

And on people over $100k, do they get postponed on wages under $100, or do they get no benefit at all? Unclear, at this point.

Not much detail. The devil will be in the treasury implementation.

I agree. The more I read the more "fun" this is going to be.....lol

 

[Dennis Olson]

If my employer alerts me that they won't be w/h payroll tax, I'll request that they continue to w/h it. I'm no sucker...

 

[CaryC]

Eventually older people are going to die. This is why they are called older people.

The payroll taxes do not fund SS/Medicare. The treasury funds it as does Congress annually.

Yeah as was said, the devil is in the details, and as far as I know, are still unknown.

Like these details SS/Medicare are not taxes, they are technically "contributions". You/no one files a 1040 on their contributions, only on their taxes. Even though they do ask what your "contributions" were on the 1040. It's not like if you over pay, you will get a refund. And they are not included when computations are done when filing/paying/refunding your "taxes".

 

[20Gauge]

Yeah as was said, the devil is in the details, and as far as I know, are still unknown.

Like these details SS/Medicare are not taxes, they are technically "contributions". You/no one files a 1040 on their contributions, only on their taxes. Even though they do ask what your "contributions" were on the 1040. It's not like if you over pay, you will get a refund. And they are not included when computations are done when filing/paying/refunding your "taxes".

Actually these are figured for over / under on SS/Medicare taxes.

 

[SmithJ]

If my employer alerts me that they won't be w/h payroll tax, I'll request that they continue to w/h it. I'm no sucker...

I doubt you’ll have that option. The EO says “shall”, not “may”

 

[SmithJ]

Yeah as was said, the devil is in the details, and as far as I know, are still unknown.

Like these details SS/Medicare are not taxes, they are technically "contributions". You/no one files a 1040 on their contributions, only on their taxes. Even though they do ask what your "contributions" were on the 1040. It's not like if you over pay, you will get a refund. And they are not included when computations are done when filing/paying/refunding your "taxes".

Actually, there is a process for getting a refund and what process you use depends on whether the overpayment results from one employer or from a combination of employers

 

[CaryC]

Actually, there is a process for getting a refund and what process you use depends on whether the overpayment results from one employer or from a combination of employers

Your getting way to caught up in the details, where as the point was there is a deference in taxes and contributions as a technicality. With out any specific clarity as to the EO.

 

[20Gauge]

I just read more about the "deferment" of the payroll tax.

YES!

It is at this time only a deferment. The tax is owed at some point.

Trump has said he will eliminate the tax debt if re-elected.

I would say he just stole a couple of plays from the Dems and blocked them for a loss as the Dems are saying he can't do this. Meaning they want to restore it.

 

[Hognutz]

I'm self-employed (Subchapter S Corporation). My current meager income is subject to withholding for Social Security, Medicare and federal income taxes. When I do payroll I electronically make a deposit into the US Treasury. I intend to continue all payroll withholding. I believe the dictator Trump has violated the US Constitution by his executive order to defer payroll taxes. Tax laws and regulations are promulgated by Congress not the President. From a practical standpoint, it would be too much of a hassle to not pay the taxes as normal and I don't want a big, lump-sum tax bill when the EO ends. I just hope the US Treasury continues accepting my tax payments. I suspect they will.

Bless your little heart.....

 

[SmithJ]

Your getting way to caught up in the details, where as the point was there is a deference in taxes and contributions as a technicality. With out any specific clarity as to the EO.

Not at all; you appeared to be stating generally that if you overpay SS and Medicare tax there’s no process for refund. I was simply clarifying that, yes there is.

 

[SmithJ]

I just read more about the "deferment" of the payroll tax.

YES!

It is at this time only a deferment. The tax is owed at some point.

Trump has said he will eliminate the tax debt if re-elected.

I would say he just stole a couple of plays from the Dems and blocked them for a loss as the Dems are saying he can't do this. Meaning they want to restore it.

Right, and we are probably looking at 2-3 rounds of treasury guidance before they decide exactly how confusing and inconvenient they Can make it to implement the deferral and payback

 

[Looks Harmless]

View attachment 213480

BJ only has delusions of grandeur when it comes to being a troll.

 

[bobfall2005]

I think it's very cool. Show what everyone's check looks like before uncle suger guts it.

End all withholding, force the worker bees to write out a big check on April 14th.

 

[West]

Right, and we are probably looking at 2-3 rounds of treasury guidance before they decide exactly how confusing and inconvenient they Can make it to implement the deferral and payback

Well it's not like the tax code was NOT confusing to begin with.

It's like how can we make the stink of poop worse? I bet the government can spend billions finding out how. Then another billion on implementing the new approved stinky poop.

What gets me is it takes at least $3 dollars to redistribute a dollar to the needy, and that's with free tax collectors.

 

[intothatgoodnight]

President Trump is subverting Congress's authority by suspending taxes. He is acting contrary to the supreme law of the land. The government needs payroll taxes for the essential Social Security and Medicare programs. Trump has made no secret that he would like to permanently do away with Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes if he is re-elected. Of course that would eliminate those programs. Trump is acting contrary to the the supreme law of the land. Trump has become King George III.

Incorrect. The EO only defunds social security and medicare of THAT revenue source - it does NOT eliminate either program, nor prevent re-funding either of them from OTHER federal government revenue sources,

Congress will have to decide where to get the monies, in order to keep both programs "solvent," while this EO likely works its way through the court system - could be months, or years, in resolving.

In the meantime, Congress will simply have to find the necessary funds, elsewhere - defunding one or more of the liberal sacred cow programs?

Perhaps . . .


intothegoodnight

 

[john70]

I'm self-employed (Subchapter S Corporation). My current meager income is subject to withholding for Social Security, Medicare and federal income taxes. When I do payroll I electronically make a deposit into the US Treasury. I intend to continue all payroll withholding. I believe the dictator Trump has violated the US Constitution by his executive order to defer payroll taxes. Tax laws and regulations are promulgated by Congress not the President. From a practical standpoint, it would be too much of a hassle to not pay the taxes as normal and I don't want a big, lump-sum tax bill when the EO ends. I just hope the US Treasury continues accepting my tax payments. I suspect they will.

YOU ARE SO GOOD

 

[Lone_Hawk]

I think it's very cool. Show what everyone's check looks like before uncle suger guts it.

End all withholding, force the worker bees to write out a big check on April 14th.

From a personal point of view, I agree with you completely.

However, from a business owner point of view, and with the too many unknowns at this time, after reading the EO yesterday, my position is that we will continue to withhold taxes and pay them. It is in both the best interest of the company and our employees.

 

[20Gauge]

Well it's not like the tax code was NOT confusing to begin with.

Yep it has already cost me $380 in update schools this winter just to be on top of the last changes. I am not sure what this will cost me.

 

[20Gauge]

How come all of these were signed on the weekend?
News cycle.

 

[20Gauge]

Look, both parties in Congress went on vacation. The unemployment supplement and eviction hold have already expired.
Trump adding back $400 bucks a week, putting a hold on evictions, and a hold on student loan interest may or may not be legal, but whoever tries to take it to the courts will pay come election time.
Congress abandoned their responsibility and we would have had 11 million people out on the street and with no money to even buy food.
Right now Trump should be pounding the point home to these people that they were abandoned by Congress and legal or not he saved them from being homeless.
That can't hurt with the upcoming elections.

The only thing I agree on is that postponing the Payroll tax is pointless.
Everything else will garner him votes in 3 months.

Agree, but a few points of order.

There would have been a lot more than 11 million out on the street and having no money for food. I am guessing at close to 30 million or more. I use the unemployment numbers as a basis.

I am not sure the payroll tax postponement is useless. As someone said earlier, once the people get used to the extra money, they are going to be pissed if it stops. Thus Trump has more power if re-elected. If he isn't it will screw with the Dems. A win either way.

 

[20Gauge]

Is it Trump or Congress who makes it permanent?

In the past it was Congress. Yet with Obama and using the DACA program as an example, it may be the President that makes laws now. I am confused for sure.