Soil I tested the ph of my garden in 12 areas today.

Wildwood

Veteran Member
I've treated my garden with the Mitleider protocol every spring for several years now. It involves large amounts of lime and small amounts of magnesium and boron mixed together, spread over and worked in with the other amendments I added. Keep in mind, different parts of my garden have different types of soil but have pretty much received the same basic fertilizing, etc. That includes in ground, raised bed and container. Every single area I tested was either 7.0 or 7.5, just a smidge alkaline so no lime this year.

Thinking this must be faulty, I got some gingerale and alkaline water and tested them to see if everything tests the same. The gingerale was off the chart acidic and the alkaline water was very alkaline, maybe 8.5. I've always heard you can't use too much lime in this part of Arkansas so I hope my decision to back off this year won't be one I regret

After so many years of the mitleider treatment, I thought I should test before I did it again in case it was getting too alkaline from the lime so I bought a probe and a bottle of the test strips just to see how they compared. The probe did not work at all so it was a bust. Since I've once again reworked the layout and spacing of the rows on my vertical garden, I wanted to do the testing before I start amending and planting...yes, I'm running a couple weeks late but the remodel has been overwhelming for me for some reason but it is the final one and will make it easier as we age...I've learned a lot about vertical gardening and spacing the hard way, of course lol. I made the painful decision to eliminate a row since I can't go any further left or right. I'll add a couple small rows behind my two large raised beds in another part of the garden...that may or may not be this year.

I will go ahead with a little fertilizer for everything but my sweet potato bed...it will get only azomite, bone meal and yellow cornmeal this year. I think I got my nitrogen in it too high last year and had a terrible crop. The rest of the garden will get yellow corn meal for ants and nematodes and a sprinkle of azomite for the first time plus bone and blood meal where needed and a basic fertilizer. My tomatoes will get all the bells and whistles as I plant.

My starts are begging for a bigger living space lol.

.
 

Toosh

Veteran Member
So your point is that you are happy with what Mitleider is doing to your soil, or no? I wasn't sure how you feel about your findings. I was Mitleider until 2 years ago when I moved to JADAM. I had great results with Mitleider but I wanted to try JADAM and I like it very much.
 

Wildwood

Veteran Member
I'm happy with Mitleider and have mentioned it here several times but I felt my numbers were on the verge of being too high so I'm taking a break this year. Also, I'm using the azomite this year and like lime, it comes from crushed rock so the two together may be too much. As long as my numbers are that high, I probably will not use lime.
 

Weft and Warp

Senior Member
This all sounds so interesting to me-- I'll have to look up those methods and learn a little bit about them. Thanks!

I have a question about that "yellow corn meal for ants" ... I'll have to look into that also, but was wondering how it's been working out in your garden?
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
About your pH and lime... lime CANNOT raise pH above neutral (7.0) Adding it is just wasting money, but won't hurt your soil. However, wood ashes WILL bring your pH higher and higher. And very few vegetables grow well above 7.0.

On our home farm, which had high organic silt loam soil, but was naturally very acidic, it took a LOT of lime in the beginning to get the pH up to 6.8. But it then stayed there for 18-20 years, without any additional lime applications!

And yes, it's possible to have too much nitrogen... you get lush, green, huge plants...but very little fruit.

Summerthyme
 

Wildwood

Veteran Member
This all sounds so interesting to me-- I'll have to look up those methods and learn a little bit about them. Thanks!

I have a question about that "yellow corn meal for ants" ... I'll have to look into that also, but was wondering how it's been working out in your garden?
It does a decent job and keeps them knocked back enough for me. I've done it for years and overall am very pleased since I try to garden as organically possible. I still get a few ants here and there but just bring out more yellow corn meal and it controls them as well as about anything else I've tried plus it helps with nematodes which are a problem for me. You have to get the plain yellow corn meal with no salt.

So your point is that you are happy with what Mitleider is doing to your soil, or no? I wasn't sure how you feel about your findings. I was Mitleider until 2 years ago when I moved to JADAM. I had great results with Mitleider but I wanted to try JADAM and I like it very much.
I do need to clarify one thing...I don't follow the mitleider protocol to the letter. I only apply once a year and not on a regular schedule throught the growing season.

JADAM intrigues me for sure but it is pretty complicated for my old brain. I'm sure if I really got into it, I'd love it. As far as sustainability, it's only good as long as you can get lye which would be near impossible if tshtf...yes, you can make it with woodash but not reliably. I order it in bulk for my business and have had to jump through hoops to get my hands on it throughout the years...there is legal paper work involved for the bigger suppliers that sell it in bulk because it's used in the manfacturing of some illegal drugs. I may be missing something here but it looks to me like it would be a necessity for JADAM. In reality, you are only making liquid soap with all the mixtures. Lye is a very dangerous thing to work with and I've never seen any precautions given in the making of the different JADAM formulations.
About your pH and lime... lime CANNOT raise pH above neutral (7.0) Adding it is just wasting money, but won't hurt your soil. However, wood ashes WILL bring your pH higher and higher. And very few vegetables grow well above 7.0.

On our home farm, which had high organic silt loam soil, but was naturally very acidic, it took a LOT of lime in the beginning to get the pH up to 6.8. But it then stayed there for 18-20 years, without any additional lime applications!

And yes, it's possible to have too much nitrogen... you get lush, green, huge plants...but very little fruit.

Summerthyme
Thank you for that clarification on the lime...very good to know. Since I burned my hair up with it last year, I'm a bit skittish lol. The granulated is so expensive, I won't be using it after all but will wear a shower cap anytime I fool with lime in the future. At 7.0 and 7.5, it looks like I'm good to go this year.

We test for ph as well as n p k, using those simple testing kits. They do sell out quick though
Are you talking about the test strips or probes?
 
Last edited:

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
It does a decent job and keeps them knocked back enough for me. I've done it for years and overall am very pleased since I try to garden as organically possible. I still get a few ants here and there but just bring out more yellow corn meal and it controls them as well as about anything else I've tried plus it helps with nematodes which are a problem for me. You have to get the plain yellow corn meal with no salt.


I do need to clarify one thing...I don't follow the mitleider protocol to the letter. I only apply once a year and not on a regular schedule throught the growing season.

JADAM intrigues me for sure but it is pretty complicated for my old brain. I'm sure if I really got into it, I'd love it. As far as sustainability, it's only good as long as you can get lye which would be near impossible if tshtf...yes, you can make it with woodash but not reliably. I order it in bulk for my business and have had to jump through hoops to get my hands on it throughout the years...there is legal paper work involved for the bigger suppliers that sell it in bulk because it's used in the manfacturing of some illegal drugs. I may be missing something here but it looks to me like it would be a necessity for JADAM. In reality, you are only making liquid soap with all the mixtures. Lye is a very dangerous thing to work with and I've never seen any precautions given in the making of the different JADAM formulations.

Thank you for that clarification on the lime...very good to know. Since I burned my hair up with it last year, I'm a bit skittish lol. The granulated is so expensive, I won't be using it after all but will wear a shower cap anytime I fool with lime in the future. At 7.0 and 7.5, it looks like I'm good to go this year.


Are you talking about the test strips or probes?
Little tablets in small vials that when mixed with water, gives us a decent reading
 

Wildwood

Veteran Member
Little tablets in small vials that when mixed with water, gives us a decent reading
I didn't see those. I'm going to assume my results are somewhat close since my two controls tested to the extreme. To torture myself even further and just for the fun of it, I'm testing some dirt in the general vicinity of the garden but far enough away that it hasn't been amended or benefited from run off and also my seed starting soil since it hasn't been amended either and came from an outside source.
 

bracketquant

Veteran Member
I've treated my garden with the Mitleider protocol every spring for several years now. It involves large amounts of lime and small amounts of magnesium and boron mixed together, spread over and worked in with the other amendments I added. Keep in mind, different parts of my garden have different types of soil but have pretty much received the same basic fertilizing, etc. That includes in ground, raised bed and container. Every single area I tested was either 7.0 or 7.5, just a smidge alkaline so no lime this year.

Thinking this must be faulty, I got some gingerale and alkaline water and tested them to see if everything tests the same. The gingerale was off the chart acidic and the alkaline water was very alkaline, maybe 8.5. I've always heard you can't use too much lime in this part of Arkansas so I hope my decision to back off this year won't be one I regret

After so many years of the mitleider treatment, I thought I should test before I did it again in case it was getting too alkaline from the lime so I bought a probe and a bottle of the test strips just to see how they compared. The probe did not work at all so it was a bust. Since I've once again reworked the layout and spacing of the rows on my vertical garden, I wanted to do the testing before I start amending and planting...yes, I'm running a couple weeks late but the remodel has been overwhelming for me for some reason but it is the final one and will make it easier as we age...I've learned a lot about vertical gardening and spacing the hard way, of course lol. I made the painful decision to eliminate a row since I can't go any further left or right. I'll add a couple small rows behind my two large raised beds in another part of the garden...that may or may not be this year.

I will go ahead with a little fertilizer for everything but my sweet potato bed...it will get only azomite, bone meal and yellow cornmeal this year. I think I got my nitrogen in it too high last year and had a terrible crop. The rest of the garden will get yellow corn meal for ants and nematodes and a sprinkle of azomite for the first time plus bone and blood meal where needed and a basic fertilizer. My tomatoes will get all the bells and whistles as I plant.

My starts are begging for a bigger living space lol.

.
I'd read up on boron, as too much likely effects tomato plants. Years ago I heard that people were having garden problems when using cheap Chinese cardboard as a weed barrier. Apparently the glue used in constructing the cardboard had high levels of boron.
 

Wildwood

Veteran Member
I'd read up on boron, as too much likely effects tomato plants. Years ago I heard that people were having garden problems when using cheap Chinese cardboard as a weed barrier. Apparently the glue used in constructing the cardboard had high levels of boron.
Thanks for the heads up!

The mitleider formula is five pounds of garden lime, four ouces of magnesium (epsom salt) and one ounce of boron (Borax). I'd usually use about three batches of it every spring so three ounces of boron for my whole big garden...hopefully it hasn't done too much damage. You can counteract the lime but I'm not sure about the boron.

I'm glad I ph tested.
 

bracketquant

Veteran Member
Thanks for the heads up!

The mitleider formula is five pounds of garden lime, four ouces of magnesium (epsom salt) and one ounce of boron (Borax). I'd usually use about three batches of it every spring so three ounces of boron for my whole big garden...hopefully it hasn't done too much damage. You can counteract the lime but I'm not sure about the boron.

I'm glad I ph tested.
I've never fully studied boron and other low quantity nutrients. I wonder if it is quickly depleted over time, or not.
 

Wildwood

Veteran Member
I've never fully studied boron and other low quantity nutrients. I wonder if it is quickly depleted over time, or not.
I'm not sure but I do know, if it is used in abundance, it can damage your ground and take many, many years to recover. The reason I know this is because I was going to put it out as a tick and flea repellant since I'm allergic to all insecticides so I did a deep dive study...that little voice in the back of my head said DON'T and it was right.

I figured if it would kill fleas on my floors, it would kill them in the yard too and it probably would have along with all my grass and flowers.
 
Top