ECON Hey Gang! Silver is Over $21!

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
so for gits and shiggles, I reached out to Apmex last night to see what I would get for my junk silver I bought from them a few years back. When I sent the email, here's what Apmex was selling the junk silver for:
View attachment 213031


Here's the email I got back from them telling me what they would buy it from me for:

View attachment 213032

I get that everyone needs to make a few bucks to keep the doors open, and yes, there's a risk being the middleman in precious metals, but HOLY SHIT, a $5,000 spread between the bid and ask is greedy...
I'd call these guys for a bid, just to see the difference...
...can't say for sure, but seems like for most everything
else that's silver & gold they are buying above spot for.

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
 

TxGal

Day by day
I'd call these guys for a bid, just to see the difference...
...can't say for sure, but seems like for most everything
else that's silver & gold they are buying above spot for.

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane

They really are great to do business with :-)
 

Quiet Man

Nothing unreal exists
Holding any gold numismatics? If so, you owe it to yourself to get an update on your coin valuations.
 

mbabulldog

Inactive
I'd call these guys for a bid, just to see the difference...
...can't say for sure, but seems like for most everything
else that's silver & gold they are buying above spot for.

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
thanks, appreciate the lead, I'll give them a shout and report back what they say.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
Demand for The Other Precious Metal (lead) seems to be outstripping that for silver and gold. And the prices for ammo are heading past unheard of.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
Disclaimer- Egon von Greyerz sells the hell out of gold.
=================


THE NIGHTMARE SCENARIO FOR THE WORLD
August 5, 2020

by Egon von Greyerz

nightmare-150x100.jpg
“Gold has no role in portfolio of wealthy clients” said the chief investment officer of Goldman Sachs’ private wealth management in the week that gold in US dollars went up by over $100 and made a new high of $1,984. Many found this statement puzzling as another Goldman department previously has told clients not to sell anything gold.

The CIO went on to say: “Our view is that gold is only appropriate if you have a very strong view that the US dollar is going to be rebased. We don’t have that view.”

THE IMPLODING DOLLAR
So here we have a dollar that has lost 85% against gold in this century and 40% since 2018. How can the CIO of the mighty GS say that the dollar is not being rebased. History certainly tells us that she is not telling the truth. Or does she believe that the dollar won’t go down in coming years. As CIO she can clearly see what everyone is seeing namely that the prospects for the dollar are doomed with what is happening in the US economy causing surging deficits and unlimited money printing.

The truth clearly lies elsewhere. No asset manager is interested in protecting their clients’ assets by investing in the ultimate form of wealth preservation which of course is physical gold. The reason is very simple. Goldman’s private wealth management like all other asset managers are not interested in holding physical gold for their clients for the simple reason that the bank can’t earn sufficient revenue on just holding client gold. Instead they want to put expensive proprietary products and their own managed funds into client portfolios and also buy and sell shares regularly to churn commissions.

No bank, managing client portfolios, tells their clients that in the last 20 years gold has outperformed all major asset classes including stocks. The Dow for example has lost 70% against gold since 1999 (excluding dividends).

Instead asset managers stick to their conventional portfolios of stocks, bonds and some alternative assets. The Dow – Gold ratio is now 13 on its way to at least 1 to 1 as in 1980 and probably 0.5 to 1 as I discussed in last week’s article.

100 TRILLION GOLD IN WEIMAR REPUBLIC
What 0.5 to 1 Dow-Gold ratio means in price is impossible to say today. It could be $20,000 gold and 10,000 Dow. It could also be $50,000 gold and 25,000 Dow. And if hyperinflation takes hold, which I think is very likely, we could see $100 billion gold. At that point I would expect the ratio to collapse in line with most stocks and be substantially below 0.5 to 1. Gold at $100 billion might sound sensational but remember that the world has seen a lot higher gold in fiat money.

In the Weimar Republic in 1923 gold reached Marks 100 trillion.
mark-600x375.jpg

But measuring the gold price in worthless paper money obviously serves no purpose. 100 trillion marks might sound like a lot of money. Well, it is if you have to pay it in actual paper money. But the problem is that paper money at that point has lost its useful function. Today paper money is gradually being abolished. In Sweden for example, no one carries or pays with paper money. Even for small amounts like a loaf of bread, a credit card is used.

AS PAPER MONEY DIES
Abolishing paper money has been a planned process by governments and central banks. Firstly it makes bank runs impossible. The banks will simply just turn off the ATMs. They can obviously also stop electronic transfers. The most important aspect of electronic money is the Big Brother is Watching Syndrome. Now the state has total electronic control of the citizens money not just from a tax point of view but the state can decide to block individual accounts or to charge fines or taxes without the permission of the account holder.

As regards hyperinflation, it is only a matter of time before inflation picks up as the frantic printing accelerates further in line with the collapsing economy. The current explosion of the Fed balance sheet combined with surging government debt will increase money supply exponentially. This will also lead to the dollar decline accelerating.

DOLLAR FALL AND MONEY SUPPLY
The dollar index peaked at 103 in March this year and has since then fallen 10% to 93 today. As the dollar continues to decline, US inflation will pick up. So far the official US inflation rate is just above zero. Anyone buying food or paying insurance for example knows that this is not a true figure. But the real reason why inflation is low in spite of the major increase in money supply is the low velocity of money.

All the money printed is not reaching the consumer but instead staying with banks and other major institutions to shore up their balance sheets. Very little reaches the real economy.

The graph below shows the rise in the US Money Zero Maturity stock – MZM. This is the broadest measure of liquid money. It was $4.3 trillion in 2000 and is now $21 trillion. Only since March 2020 it has increased by a massive $4 trillion.
moneystock-600x180.jpg

If we then look at the velocity of MZM we see how it reached 3.5 in 1981 when inflation was high and interest rates reached 20%. Today the velocity has collapsed to an all time low of 0.9. So what we are seeing is that the money printed is not spent but used to prevent the financial system from collapsing.
velocity-600x209.jpg


AS THE DOLLAR FALLS VELOCITY OF MONEY WILL PICK UP
As the dollar falls and velocity of money increases, we will see inflation increasing rapidly. Higher inflation will lead to higher interest rates. I experienced this in the UK in the 1970s when inflation was in the mid to high teens for many years. My first mortgage was at 21% in 1974.

Central banks are today managing to artificially suppress interest rates and in the short term defy the laws of supply and demand. High demand for credit should in a free market lead to high interest rates and thus taper demand for credit. But in a world controlled and manipulated by central banks, the laws of nature are temporarily set aside. This leads to false markets and false prices.

The likely course of events in the next few years are as follows:
THE NIGHTMARE SCENARIO
  • Accelerating deficits and debts
  • Falling dollar and other currencies
  • Unlimited money printing to save banks, and failing financial system
  • More printing to save failing companies
  • Ever higher subsidies for furloughed and unemployed
  • Universal Basic Income (UBI) introduced in most Western nations
  • UBI means that everyone is paid a basic wage whether they work or not
  • This will lead to ever fewer people working
  • Higher unemployment means more printing
  • More printing leads to more currency debasement
  • This leads to higher velocity of money higher inflation
  • Central banks lose control of rates as long end of bond market sells off
  • High long rates push short rates up
  • Rates reach 5% then quickly 10% and on to 15-20% at least
  • At 10% rates interest cost on global debt of $275 trillion would be $27t
  • $27t is 34% of global GDP – totally unsustainable
  • So much more money printing required
  • Bad debts surge leading to defaults, sovereign, corporate and private
  • Unemployment escalates leading to more UBI and more money printing
  • Banks start falling including the $1.5 to $2 quadrillion derivatives market
  • Money printing reaches $ quadrillions leading to hyperinflation
  • The financial system collapses together with major parts of industry and society
  • Social unrest, civil wars, cyber wars and major conflict will be rampant
  • Political systems fail as governments lose control leading to anarchy
THE WORLD WAKES UP TO THE FACT THAT IT IS BANKRUPT
Obviously governments and central banks will desperately try to introduce resets, new digital currencies, do a bit of hocus pocus with debt to pretend it has disappeared. The US might even revalue its alleged stock of 8,000 tonnes of gold. But their bluff will be called. The effects of any measure governments take will only be temporary as the world realises that it really is bankrupt.

I sincerely hope that all the above is really a nightmare in the form of a dream and will never take place. Because if it does, the world is back to the Dark Ages or the Dark Years are here as I wrote about in 2009 and revisited in 2018.

THE WORLD GOES BACKWARD 100 YEARS
If the world retraces a century of evolution or more, it is clearly in for at least 50 years of very hard times. But except for the initial shock and readjustment, life will go on for most people but at a different level. Obviously living standards will decline substantially. So will security.

MANY OF LIFE’S TREASURES ARE FREE
The positive aspect is that moral and ethical values will return with family and friends becoming the kernel of society again. And many of the best and free things in life will still be there such as nature, books, music, good conversation, close friendships etc. With the lack of many of the superficial material values, we will appreciate the real value of the new simple life even though it will seem a lot harder initially.
What I have outlined above is not a forecast but a potential scenario which I sincerely hope won’t come to pass but the risk is certainly there.

GOLD WILL ASSUME ITS CRISIS ROLE
Gold and silver are now in the acceleration phase of a secular bull market. As always, there will be corrections on the way to much higher levels.
In a period of such severe crisis which I outline above, gold will obviously assume the role it always has, namely as money and the only money which will maintain its purchasing power and act as insurance and wealth preservation. But remember, it must be physical and stored outside the banking system in a very safe place and jurisdiction.

At that point it will be meaningless to measure gold in worthless dollars or euros. Instead, think of gold in ounces or grammes and purchasing power terms.
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Look guys, I've explained this to the board previously. You CAN get silver and gold below spot. All you have to do is place an ad on Craigslist that says something to the effect of "Private collector buys gold and silver. Better prices than any pawn shop or coin dealer! Call..."

Simple, ennit? I've done this over the years with good results. Don't expect a flood of people to answer your ads, but some will. Do a survey of local pawn and coin dealers and find out what they're paying. All you have to do is add a percentage point or two to their offers.

Best
Doc
 

Sicario

The Executor
Look guys, I've explained this to the board previously. You CAN get silver and gold below spot. All you have to do is place an ad on Craigslist that says something to the effect of "Private collector buys gold and silver. Better prices than any pawn shop or coin dealer! Call..."

Simple, ennit? I've done this over the years with good results. Don't expect a flood of people to answer your ads, but some will. Do a survey of local pawn and coin dealers and find out what they're paying. All you have to do is add a percentage point or two to their offers.

Best
Doc
My concern about this would be shady sellers selling fake metals. Unless you're only buying 'junk', this has become a considerable risk, particularly, yet not exclusively, in the gold market.
 
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Hfcomms

EN66iq
My concern about this would be shady sellers selling fake metals. Unless you're only buying 'junk', this has become a considerable risk, particularly, yet not exclusively, in the gold market.

Probably not so much a problem with silver at this point but I would only buy gold from a reputable dealer with a long track record. I would not go the Craigslist route though. As things heat up whoever you contact is going to know that you have gold/silver and/or cash to purchase same. One could easily be robbed if you aren't careful. Wouldn't be the first time something like that happened off a Craigslist encounter.
 

David Nettleton

Veteran Member
Look guys, I've explained this to the board previously. You CAN get silver and gold below spot. All you have to do is place an ad on Craigslist that says something to the effect of "Private collector buys gold and silver. Better prices than any pawn shop or coin dealer! Call..."

Simple, ennit? I've done this over the years with good results. Don't expect a flood of people to answer your ads, but some will. Do a survey of local pawn and coin dealers and find out what they're paying. All you have to do is add a percentage point or two to their offers.

Best
Doc
Not a bad idea, Doc1. However, rent the foyer of your local police dept. bldg. to make the exchange ... if ya catch my drift.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
Well, who is going to know more about a product like gold than someone who has made a living selling it IN SWITZERLAND for most of his life? :D

He would likely say gold sells itself, he just facilitates the transaction.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
He would likely say gold sells itself, he just facilitates the transaction.

We peons buy a gold coin now and then when we are able. Egon caters to customers that buy multiple bars of gold at a time. You need a minimum of a 250K position before he will even take you on as a customer. He is one along with Sinclair and a handful of others that I pay a lot of attention to when they talk.
 

Sub-Zero

Veteran Member
I just saw an ad on my local Facebook Marketplace for $750 of face value heritage silver (mostly half dollars of the Kennedy and Franklin vintage) for 25 times face value. He will sell smaller amounts.
 

Sicario

The Executor
I just saw an ad on my local Facebook Marketplace for $750 of face value heritage silver (mostly half dollars of the Kennedy and Franklin vintage) for 25 times face value. He will sell smaller amounts.
That's a little steep. Melt value is about 20X face as I post this.
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Most people who wished they'd bought some PM's earlier
need to look to do so now with any pullbacks, but won't.

They'll wait, and then have to chase ever rising prices up,
or miss out... again.

People need to be as evenly excited about any pullbacks as
they just were recently excited about PM's hitting new highs.

The reasons PM's were hitting new highs has not gone away.

Look at longer term charts, the PM's always have a nice sharp
and brief pullback, shaking off all the weak hands, before next
continuing going on to even higher new highs.

Understand, too, when PM's just won't go any lower, bouncing
along any new recent bottom, they will go up with a vengeance
and time will be up then for getting a cheap seat on the PM train.

We'll all see soon enough...

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
 
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TxGal

Day by day
I picked up a little at the end of last week, and right now there is a good pull-back. I'd love to add some more at this price, but we're going with a little every month while the budget allows. Darn....
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
I'd also consider it a buying opportunity if you can source the metal. That and condition yourself to value your silver in ounces and not in dollars and then you won't care too much what the paper pushers do.
 

Sub-Zero

Veteran Member
Annnnnnnnnd....

It's gone!

Way under $25 now. Good push back by TPTB. We'll see where it is in the morning. Expect heavy resistance, and back and forth, before it climbs above $30.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
we're going with a little every month while the budget allows

What that works out to on a practical basis, the pros call 'dollar cost averaging' and they think it's a good way to build a position. I agree.

Be thinking about the sell side too - there needs to be a plan for both sides of the trade.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
And I got my long awaited $100 move in gold, too. Didn't expect it to be to the DOWNside though. :D

Remember that article I just posted about markets going DOWN?
 

TKO

Veteran Member
Yes... But you can't BUY at spot.

I bought most of my ounces at the $18-$21 range.

Just like now ( 08/08/20 at 0155 ) spot is $28.48 but average asking prices per ounce on Ebay and Amazon are $35-$42
Because PMs are a ripoff, you can't make any money selling them unless they go very high over what you bought them for. Some call them an investment, which is what they really are to most(albeit a very poor investment typically if you are after buying with cash and selling them for cash), and some call it SHTF money. 7 years ago I bought silver eagles for nearly 27 dollars apiece. You pay the premium going in...and you pay it again coming out. It's got to go much more than 35 to be any kind of investment. My position has been to keep it rather than sell it due to it being my SHTF money.
 

TxGal

Day by day
we're going with a little every month while the budget allows

What that works out to on a practical basis, the pros call 'dollar cost averaging' and they think it's a good way to build a position. I agree.

Be thinking about the sell side too - there needs to be a plan for both sides of the trade.

Yep, understand the dollar cost averaging, many decades ago we had stocks.

We have no plans to sell any silver we may have, just passing on down to family when we're gone :-)

I look at it more as a 'darn, if I hadn't bought last week and bought today instead, I could have picked up another ASE.' We're budgeting a set amount as part of our long-term savings. Having said that, it could have easily gone up much more and I'd have felt lucky I was able to get what I got. As it is, I STILL feel lucky to have gotten what I got, there for a while they were out of stock.
 

Quiet Man

Nothing unreal exists
Nice interview with Craig Hemke

Craig Hemke – Fed Not Fighting Inflation Equals $18,000 Gold
39 minutes

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHrNGmxLCpo

Added: Where we are with the metals; Why the current pull-back is healthy/needed; Why August will be choppy; What has precipitated the current upward pressure in PMs (a change in FED policy that will drive-down interest rates, while also driving-up inflation); Don't loose your position as we are going much higher
 
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Hfcomms

EN66iq
Any nervous Nellies should watch the Hemke interview a few posts up. The Fed is fooked and going into September the metals are going to respond in a way most will find hard to believe. The metals are going to fulfill their role as they always have thru human history as sure as death and taxes.
 

West

Senior
Money is minted coin. Gold and silver dollars is real dollars.

Currently currency is a IOU note issued by the Fed, Res, banksters. And it takes many of those fake dollars to buy one silver dollar. And it takes thousands of F.R. banker dollars to buy one $50 gold dollar.

:D
 
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