…… Help: I have an idea re bomb/Fallout shelter that can used anywhere and afforded

[Thinwater]

I was at Sams club a few weeks ago and saw the huge piles of bottled water cases and thought that it could be used for radiation shielding, then drank after an event had passed.

I drew up several iterations of a support structure that could hold the waters weight and allow it to be set up in a spare bedroom or even a garage. A person could slip into a bed set up in the water shielding pile, and remain in place for the first 12 hours after fallout. They could make a fast run to the restroom and return after that timeframe for the next several days. They could make a fast run to the kitchen for a snack and return. Using fallout decay schedules they could figure out how long to stay in the shelter and could continue to sleep in it for months to minimize their exposure to remaining fallout, plus have lots of water to drink (No it does not become radioactive).

Last week I came across Canadian Prepper doing a short on Atlas shelters who mentioned the "Morrison shelter" It was almost exactly what I had been drawing. It was used in WWII in England to keep collapsing houses from crushing families during German bombing raids.

It is 6' 6" long x 4' with, 26" tall with a 1/8" steel sheet on the top and an angle iron frame. You put a mattress inside and sleep in it and hide in it when the air raid sirens sound.

I am considering manufacturing these with instructions to pile water cases (Or bags of sand, concrete, books etc..) on and around it for radiation shielding plus build a wall of such stuff in front of it, far enough away to allow the user to get in and out but would block radiation form going into the doorway. It would then be a fallout/bomb shelter for a minimum cost compared to digging up your yard and installing the minimum $20,000 to $250,000 shelter. Shipping would suck and they are still fairly heavy, probably 250-300 lbs when assembled.

Here is one intact inside of a bombed out house. They are bigger than you might think in the picture but you get the idea.

What say you all? Dumb idea? May sell? Nut job? Must have for a low dollar prepper?

 

[LoupGarou]

As long as you can get over 40+ inches of water, you should get close to a PF40 shielding level, which is what the old FEMA TR-87 specs had. The first 7-8 hours would be the worst on the need for the shielding. The next two weeks would not be too bad.

If you could find a few (10) Used IBC 275Gallon Carboys, you could put 3 on each side and two at the front and back to make a 10 foot by 6+ foot shielded area that you could be in for a while. The Carboys are 39"wide X 47"deep X 45" tall, so 10 would provide great side protection for that 10'X6' area. The top would still need cover, but a couple bagged "wet" mattresses may work for that on top of some steel plates. Just think of them as really heavy Lego blocks (140 Lbs empty, 2,300~ Lbs, EACH, full of water...)

 

[Creedmoor]

That’s a lot of weight. Would a typical house floor hold? I think live load for residential floors is about 30 pounds per square foot.

 

[Txkstew]

Your entrance needs to have at least two 90 deg turns. Gamma rays bounce around corners. 72 hours is the most critical time you need to stay sheltered. Water, food and a bucket should keep you in your shelter that long. A few xnax pills could keep you sleeping most of that time. You can make quick trips out after 72 hours, but you should continue to shelter for two weeks after the event. Then it's time to hopefully exit the danger zone for good.

 

[Warm Wisconsin]

I had similar plans drawn up for a A frame shape setup. Never implemented it but considered selling it myself

 

[LoupGarou]

That’s a lot of weight. Would a typical house floor hold? I think live load for residential floors is about 30 pounds per square foot.

Yes, I was thinking basement for the Carboys method....

 

[Creedmoor]

Yes, I was thinking basement for the Carboys method....

Yep. If you had a wide enough door and stairway.

 

[Squib]

A couple demonstrating the use of a Morrison shelter.

 

[BadMedicine]

for rrefernce how deep would just dirt or sand need to be to offer protection?

The time estimates given assume one event, near you. If the even is around the world, does most the atmospheric fallout still happen in 72 hours? ..and either way, each time a can-o-sunshine pops, restart the timer..

 

[Old Gray Mare]

Ok so say the shelter is effective. The fallout initially will be airborne depending on wind direction. Some sort of filter might be a good idea? No idea what could be improvised.

 

[Luddite]

No idea what could be improvised.

All windows shut. Wet sheets around doorways or leaky windows. Even Tom Ridge's duct tape suggestion might be beneficial.

Jmho, but everyone needs a copy of Cresson Kearney's Nuclear Survival Skills book if you're inclined to prepare for this ever increasing possibility.

Our member Shane is a great resource too.

Eta: I suppose a wet sheet could be draped over your improvised indoor shelter but stopping the majority outside rather than inside would be best obviously.

 

[Oldotaku]

Bad Medicine asked:
for reference, how deep would just dirt or sand need to be to offer protection?

From Life After Doomsday, I recall that you needed 150 lbs of mass per square foot of protected area between you and the radiation source to provide a protection factor (PF) of 40. Some advanced FEMA manuals had the equations for figuring out the actual PF for a particular shelter situation, and they are in SurvivalRing's DVD-ROM collection.

 

[Thinwater]

for rrefernce how deep would just dirt or sand need to be to offer protection?

The time estimates given assume one event, near you. If the even is around the world, does most the atmospheric fallout still happen in 72 hours? ..and either way, each time a can-o-sunshine pops, restart the timer..

2 feet of concrete, or 3 feet of dirt, or 4 feet of water.

It's kind of funny, I was just awakened by the emergency alert tone re tornado warning on my phone and wish I had one here at my GF house. I have a real fallout shelter at my house but it does not do much good when I am here.

 

[Luddite]

Measuring the amount will be the key. Each situation will be different.

A 30 minute trip walking or driving may be acceptable if your cumulative absorbed Rads are 50 or so. Assuming your destination may provide you a spot where none are expected.

Rate meters are relatively inexpensive. Imagine the stress of not knowing how much to which you're exposed. Worse than that is relying on some government employee to tell you how much radiation is in your area...

 

[Thinwater]

Measuring the amount will be the key. Each situation will be different.

A 30 minute trip walking or driving may be acceptable if your cumulative absorbed Rads are 50 or so. Assuming your destination may provide you a spot where none are expected.

Rate meters are relatively inexpensive. Imagine the stress of not knowing how much to which you're exposed. Worse than that is relying on some government employee to tell you how much radiation is in your area...

I have a nice meter. I am the only one that I know with one. I hope it is not needed. Even with my extensive preps I don't expect to make it over 2 years if it happens and that's assuming that I can make it back my shelter if something kicks off. Florida is not a great place to be if nukes fly.

 

[Old Gray Mare]

Some Morrison shelters collapsed under the weight of falling debris from the homes they were in. In the UK they were replaced in many instances by Anderson Shelters in the back garden. Below is a TB2K thread on Anderson Shelters because this is TB2K and of course there's a thread on WW2 Anderson Shelters.

FARM - WW2 Anderson Shelters

Does anyone know if there is anything similar to the British Anderson shelter available today? I have been looking into building an ice house and a outside root cellar and it seems like a couple of those would work perfectly. I could probably use a culvert but I like the open bottom to drain...

www.timebomb2000.com

 

[Thinwater]

Some Morrison shelters collapsed under the weight of falling debris from the homes they were in. In the UK they were replaced in many instances by Anderson Shelters in the back garden. Below is a TB2K thread on Anderson Shelters because this is TB2K and of course there's a thread on WW2 Anderson Shelters.

FARM - WW2 Anderson Shelters

Does anyone know if there is anything similar to the British Anderson shelter available today? I have been looking into building an ice house and a outside root cellar and it seems like a couple of those would work perfectly. I could probably use a culvert but I like the open bottom to drain...

www.timebomb2000.com

The Morrison shelter was an option for those with no "garden", as the Brits called it, to use a proper Anderson shelters.

Does anyone think it would sell and if so what would be a reasonable price? I could make a one person version cheaper. Either version could be used side by side to add up to how many people needed to be sheltered.

 

[Doc1]

for rrefernce how deep would just dirt or sand need to be to offer protection?

The time estimates given assume one event, near you. If the even is around the world, does most the atmospheric fallout still happen in 72 hours? ..and either way, each time a can-o-sunshine pops, restart the timer..

You need to research what is known as half-value thickness. There are lots of charts on the net illustrating that or - if you can't find any - I'll photograph and publish one here upon request.

There are a lot of ways to achieve a high half-value thickness besides digging a deep hole or covering your shelter with sandbags, You should consider earth geometry in landscaping and possibilities in high rise buildings. Also, there are possibilities in drainage systems and other underground infrastructure. Many years ago I was on a construction crew that was building underground concrete telephone connection trunk vaults. I remember thinking at the time that they would make pretty good radiological shelters.

Additionally, boats can make very good shelters. The idea here is to make sure you are away from shorelines, and in at least four feet of water (though 6' is better). You want to cover the vessel in a large trap fitted at an extreme angle in an "A" shape so that fallout tends to slide down the sides (instead of accumulating in the boat). Additionally, you should have some sort of a small pump onboard that will allow you to wash down the tarp. Also, have a supply of dishwashing liquid or other detergent that, in dilute form, you can spray on the water surrounding your boat to ensure that the fallout sinks and does not float on the surface of the water around your boat.

You can use a car as part of a shelter. The idea is to dig a narrow slit trench and park the car over it. Then you fill the car with sandbags, bricks or other forms of mass and also pile sandbags around the vehicle. If you have time, you should dig an "L" shaped entrance to the slit trench and possibly cover this with heavy wood and sandbags.

You should also acquire radiological monitoring instruments. Shane at KI4U sells true war meters (CD V-715s and CD V-717s. These are old Civil Defense meters which Shane's company refurbishes and tests. They aren't cheap, but are worthwhile if radiation defense is important to you. A cheaper method is to acquire CD V-750 dosimeter chargers and CD V-742 dosimeters. The dosimeters will measure accumulated gamma radiation doses and, when used in conjunction with with a watch, can serve as dose rate meters.

There are lots of ways to skin the radiological defense cat, but it requires research and study.

PS: Most of what I've written above applies to fallout shelters. Fallout shelters are not synonymous with blast shelters, though virtually all blast shelters are also good fallout shelters.

Best
Doc