Having hot water post-shtf.

[Worrier King]

One thing that I think people will really miss is a abundance of hot water, especially the showers, baths and dish washing. There's definite hygenic and health risks, expecially with NOT using hot water to wash your dishes and pans with.

I'm leaning towards setting up a remote cabin thats in-progress by not relying on a hot water heater thats "on" all the time, to save some energy.

In the colder months there will be a solid fuel-wood burner, so just a a big kettle on the stove will provide some hot water, and help humidify the cabin. (Incidently, at that particular cabin, we are hauling water in from a creek thats 3/4 of a mile away, and using cisterns and water harvesting from gutters. We could have it delivered and there are public artesian wells available also)

One thing I'm looking at is these: http://www.zodi.com/web-content/Consumer/zodiproducts.html
incorporating it into what will be minimalist cabin plumbing, with the bathroom next to the kitchen area so there's no long plumbing runs.

Another thing I've seen used for camp showers is the turkey deep fryers plumbed up to a little pump.

Its definitley a KISS approach, the less mechanical stuff the better.

So would a SHTF situation affect how people here approach or plan to have their hot water? Have you considered not having your hot water heater on 24x7 just to try to conserve your energy supplies? Any thoughts on this?

 

[Worrier King]

One more thing I forgot to add. It seems a lot of people plan to work around a broken ELECTRICAL grid, but are they also preparing to get off the public utilites grid; water, gas. ???

 

[MaxTheKnife]

I've been working on designing a stainless steel water tank that will attach to my existing wood stove in the kitchen. It will hold at least 5 gallons and as well as serving our hot water needs, it will also add heating mass to the wood stove. I will use a simple ratcheting device to swing the tank out away from direct contact with the outside wall of the wood stove once the water is fully hot. The tank will have a stainless steel tap for draining hot water into a pail or bucket and will be filled with a funnel on top of the tank where a 2" pipe with cap will serve as a filler neck.

That'll be fine for the winter months. But in the summer when it's hot I'll most likely keep it simple and use a black plastic 5-gallon bucket with a lid outside in full sun to heat water for bathing and dish washing. We won't be able to bathe as often as we'd like so we'll have to make that water count!

 

[Worrier King]

Thats a good idea Max. Have you considered then putting the hot water in a elevated bucket with a hose/shower head attachment to just use gravity to help you clean and rinse?

One thing I've seen and used during the summer is a 55 gallon metal barrel painted black, on top of a platform using only the sun to heat it, with a hose, shower head running out of it. You just stand under the raised barrel. With the right weather circumstances, towards the end of the afternoon you can get a lot of people clean with one of those.

One other thing we use with camping latrines that goes a long wya towards good hyrgience is having baby butt wipes, be they for your butt or to wash your face and hands.

To go really survivalist upscale, these would be neat, a wood fired hot tub:

http://www.snorkel.com/stoves.html
If we can just get another year or to before TSHTF, this will be do-able for us.

 

[MaxTheKnife]

I'm trying to keep things at the simplest level, Burger King. That 55-gallon barrel thing is a good idea for the summertime. But during the winter, I'd worry about it freezing and busting or at least swelling the seams in the tank. And getting the water into it would be a problem unless you built stairs to the platform and poured the water into the top of the barrel from a bucket. Keeping things simple is top priority for me. Sometimes, simple in function means more work. But it's also more sustainable in the long run. You're obviously a smart individual, so you'll no doubt go far without the advice of a backwoods Arkie like me. Good thread, by the way.

 

[SassyinAZ]

I love my Zodi, WK, LOVE it!

Before Zodi (loved this and still use it as well) Coleman has a pump/showerhead handheld unit (about thirty bucks) -- so, same idea just no source to heat the water. We used the turkey fryer to heat the water in a snap, dumped it into the ole' rubbermaid and turned on the shower.

awwww heaven when camping.

Sassy

 

[BigDog]

Outdoor wood fired furnace or solar water heater

http://www.centralboiler.com/applications.php

 

[Crawlingtoy]

I am going to hook a home brewed one of these up to the Lister genny:

http://www.premierpowerwelder.com/underhood/underhood.html

That should work mighty fine, as long as I have gas to run the thing. I will probably hook up something to the wood stove as well.

 

[CarolynA]

Check out this super deluxe shower set up:
http://www.hotcampshowers.com/new51785.html

There is a book called "Sun, Wind, Water" by James Dulley that had DIY instructions for all kinds of alternate energy items, like water heaters.

I have a very simple camp shower that I picked up at a yard sale for $10. It has a hard plastic bottom, a black plastic roof that holds about 5 gallons of water, and a shower curtain that hangs from the roof for total privacy. You hang it up in a tree, fill the top with water, and the sun warms the water. Under the roof it has a shower head. When travelling it folds up flat and takes up about the same space as a spare tire but a little wider. Shoot, it looks pretty feeble after looking at the deluxe shower rooms on the hotcampshowers web site

Here's an idea: In a pinch you could heat a pot of water on the woodstove, pour it into a Hudson sprayer, & use this in your shower. You would have to be careful not to get the water too hot for the plastic sprayer though.

 

[Nuthatch]

A one or two gallon sprayer for plants--not ever used for anything else, can also serve as a small portable shower. You can even easily use it inside after heating water in your solar set-up outside. Setting it in an unused cold frame may add some heating power to the sun in the cooler weather, depending on your climate.

 

[Crawlingtoy]

Check out this super deluxe shower set up:
http://www.hotcampshowers.com/new51785.html

There is a book called "Sun, Wind, Water" by James Dulley that had DIY instructions for all kinds of alternate energy items, like water heaters.

I have a very simple camp shower that I picked up at a yard sale for $10. It has a hard plastic bottom, a black plastic roof that holds about 5 gallons of water, and a shower curtain that hangs from the roof for total privacy. You hang it up in a tree, fill the top with water, and the sun warms the water. Under the roof it has a shower head. When travelling it folds up flat and takes up about the same space as a spare tire but a little wider. Shoot, it looks pretty feeble after looking at the deluxe shower rooms on the hotcampshowers web site

Here's an idea: In a pinch you could heat a pot of water on the woodstove, pour it into a Hudson sprayer, & use this in your shower. You would have to be careful not to get the water too hot for the plastic sprayer though.

Those are cool! I haven't seen those before.

 

[Rob]

I’ve given a lot of thought to heating water and the house when TSHTF. Heating is the hardest for solar and alternate energy in general.

Heating water and cooking food require real heat and that’s BTUs.

The best thing to start with is a good wood stove. It’s great for backup and not much can go wrong with it. You can get a coil of ½ inch copper tubing from a plumbing supply outlet and coil it in an expanding circle that you attach to the back of your wood stove. In the summer a black bucket will do nicely. Suspend it off the ground so it doesn’t lose heat to the soil.

I’m building a wind mill just for heat and it will constantly be heating a large drum of water. Actually pre-heating the water. If I can get the water to about 85 degrees then I can use other means (elements from batteries) to heat it to the 104 F showers and dish water need. Most showers run about ten to twelve minutes and my solar system will carry this. One more thing this is a POU (point of use) on demand system.

Also check out the GFX (gravity film exchange I think he calls it) that an engineer did a gov. grant for. If you can combine it with your system it will help somewhat.

Anyway I’m thinking that my showers in the winter will be on windy days when the windmill heats the water the most. I’ll have a temp gauge and alarm when the tank temp hits the right temp to shower. In my area we get good wind in the winter so I guess on windy days the line at my front door will be the longest!

One more thing WK you might want to see about a small hydro for that stream. If it's doable hydro is the best alternate energy.

 

[hitssquad]

Heating is the hardest for solar and alternate energy in general.

Homepower electric can power a heat pump and thus place into a vessel many times its equivalent in heat energy.
http://www.geoexchange.org/about/how.htm

Homeowners who use geoexchange systems give them superior ratings because of their ability to deliver comfortably warm air, even on the coldest winter days, and because of their extraordinarily low operating costs. As an additional benefit, geoexchange systems can provide inexpensive hot water, either to supplement or replace entirely the output of a conventional, domestic water heater.

 

[Caplock50]

Here ya go: Get yourself a sheet of plywood about 4'X4', enough 2X4s to 'box' it in, and a sheet of clear plastic to finish the boxing. You'll also need some flat balck paint, and a roll of copper tubing. After nailing the 2X4s around the edge of the plywood(the 2X4 are on edge also), and before you put the plastic in place;drill two holes in the 'top' edge and the 'bottom' edge 2X4s. Run the copper tubing through one hole, then back and forth across the back of the box(the plywood) in elongated 's' curves, and out the bottom hole. Now paint the inside of the box(and the tubing) with your black paint. You can either mount this on the top of your outside shower room or use it as the roof itself. Once the paint has dried, place the clear plastic on it and secure it down tight. The upper end of the copper tubing can be fastened to a bucket, small or large barrel that is, or has been painted, black. The lower end will be hooked up to a shower head. I have been saying 'upper' and 'lower', 'top' and 'bottom' because the box will be slightly tilted towards the south; the direction the sun is for us in the northern hemisphere, mostly. According to the article I stole this from the water temps can get as high as 120 degrees F. so be careful. And, btw, the bigger you build this, the more hot water you'll have. The article said this 'device' will also work in the wintertime. Oh, and the plastic is that hard, stiff, stuff; not the soft, paper-like stuff.

Personally, I'll only be rinsing my dishes with water. I'll be scouring them clean with sand first.

 

[hitssquad]

Anyway I’m thinking that my showers in the winter will be on windy days when the windmill heats the water the most.

Wind turbines do not function on windy days.


http://www.eere.energy.gov/de/wind_power.html

At high wind speeds, a controller on the turbine shuts it down so turbine components won't be damaged by high winds.

 

[Christian for Israel]

i'm planning on using a couple of array heliostats to boil water and run a steam generator. the waste heat would be collected through a heat exchanger in the household hot water tank.

 

[Rob]

Homepower electric can power a heat pump and thus place into a vessel many times its equivalent in heat energy.
http://www.geoexchange.org/about/how.htm

I like it!

 

[Rob]

Anyway I’m thinking that my showers in the winter will be on windy days when the windmill heats the water the most.

Wind turbines do not function on windy days.

Wrong again!

Windmills DO function on windy days. There is a furling system to keep the mill from OVER speed but it never stops functioning. It runs to a maximum and furls to remain at that point.


At high wind speeds, a controller on the turbine shuts it down so turbine components won't be damaged by high winds.


This refers to hurricane forces that would damage a windmill. Windy days don’t shut down the windmill. HIGH wind does. Autonomous windmills like the Bergey XL1 and AIR H40 and H80 that are used by small sites like mine have furling systems that turn the blades PARTIALLY away from the wind when it is over a specific speed to protect the mill.

If the windmill didn’t function on windy days then when would it function?? On non-windy days?? Geeeeze...

You’re way out of your element here. Maybe you should think about not using the cut and paste option for things you don’t understand!

 

[WalknTrot]

Too complicated for me. I still use my Grandma's 2.5 gallon aluminum teakettle every day. Must be at least 50 years of mineral buildup in the thing, but it's still ticking away. It goes along on every camping trip, too. If that ain't enough hot water for you, you're wasting it, IMHO!

 

[Springledge]

We have a camper with a shower. As long as we can get the bottled propane I would use that. It has a holding tank that I could fill from the spring if I had no electricity. Also has a gas stove and even a gas refrigerator. If there is no gas, then it's the ole woodstove and bucket routine. I also used to heat water on top of our kerosene heater...I know, you are not really supposed to, but in a pinch, it works great.

 

[oldladydoolin]

I have two of those camping showers. As for the winter time, a big lobster pot full of water will do the treat, providing there is water. If the SHTF, I will head to my neice's who has plenty of water outlets. Her house is hooked up to the city line but she also has a well and two springs. Hopefully that will do it for us.

 

[CopperTopMom]

So long as we have water presssure we have hot water since we have a range boiler on the kitchen wood stove (right now we use it to preheat the water for the electric tank in winter, of course this winter has been so mild that we have hardly had the kitchen stove lit yet). That would be pretty hot in the summer to heat so would look for alternatives then. Although it gets cool enough at night here that we could get away with putting the fire on at night to heat the water, but that would tend to waste a lot of wood we'd really need for winter heat. We want to look into a solar water heater in the summer, we get enough sun and the house is south facing so should be pretty decent. If we could afford it we would aim for geothermal heat/hot water with the heat exchanger powered by a combination of solar and wind (there's always at least a strong breeze here). People who come to our house often comment on the fact that the wind is always blowing, even people who live in the community.

 

[biere]

My well system has been acting up for a long while now and it took me a while to get around to hooking up to city water so I played around with this concept for a bit.

For washing dishes I wound up filling my biggest cooking pot with hot water and dishwashing soap and that lets me soak the dirty dishes.

For rinsing dishes I heated up more water in a pot and poured it into one of those 5 gallon round coolers like you see on work trucks and what not. They have a spigot on the bottom and since that is threaded you could also play in the plumbing store and get inventive.

Anyway, with lots of water still available but no way to use my electric water heater I found that a pot of water on my propane kitchen stove worked fine. In the winter if I had wood heat I would indeed use the wood stove.

For showers I never got very inventive so all my ideas have been mentioned. Mostly it is good to have a pot of hot water as well as a sprayer full of hot water as well.

One buddy of mine had a gravity fed shower in his cabin. He laid a 55 gallon drum on its side and made a wooden frame to hold it in place. It was plastic so he easily cut the top of the drum open and made a sort of 55 gallon tub. He would heat water and pour it into the drum. He never messed with having cold water at the faucet so he had to get the temp in the barrel pretty close to perfect. Anyway, the drum was on the 2nd floor and his shower was right under it. I never used it but it worked fine.

I am about to be done selling my current place and hope to find a bigger piece of land to make a more permanent setup for a hunting cabin.

 

[SmartAZ]

Hot water is so simple. In Arizona you can get hot water with no effort at all. In the summer it comes out of both faucets.

The Japanese have something called "fubaru". It is a hot water soak, about 50 gallons. So they have a 50 gallon black plastic bag on the roof. They fill it with water in the morning, and in the evening they drain it into the fubaru. Pretty slick, huh?

The rednecks do almost as well, still for free. They take the tank from an electric water heater, put it in a defunct regrigerator, paint the inside black, and set it on its back on the south side of the house. In the morning they prop the door open, and in the evening they close the door and use the hot water they have collected. I guess it's not entirely free, the paint costs something.

 

[rolph]

lol SmartAZ. I like the way you think!

 

[tsk]

Worrier King: we are hauling water in from a creek thats 3/4 of a mile away

You need to install a well with a handle pump. I think theyre called pitcher pumps.

Depending on the type of shit that hits the fan, water from the creek could be toxic no matter how much you boil it.

My BIL has one of these in his cabin in the U.P.

He pounded in pipes about 30 feet deep by hand, stuck the pump on the top, and voila!


tsk, tsk...

 

[Splicer205]

Lots of good ideas here. Thanks for sharing them. All I can offer is a pot on a woodstove, or plastic in the sun. Not a big contribution.