Getting off the grid

tropicalfish

Veteran Member
I assume this is the best place to post this, if not, l understand.
I need to know what is the cheapest and best way to get away from the power companies and live off the grid.
Here's my story:
I am so mad at our power company. We can no longer make it week to week financially. Our electric bill was due and we did not have the money to pay it. So DH tells them that if they could hold off until such and such date that we could pay it. The nice lady said she fully understood and they would allow us to make the payment late. Sounded good.
We woke up on a Saturday morning to find our power had been shut off. :mad: DH makes a trip over to the power company and asks why they cut it off when arrangements had been made as to when they would receive it. The original lady he had talked to wasn't there. They said they were sorry, but there was nothing in the computer that said arrangements had been made, so they cut us off. He argued the point that arrangements had been made, but ended up losing the battle.
They turned it back on with a partial payment and demanded a $455 deposit be paid within 30 days. Well, if we can't make the original bill, then how are we going to save up $455. for a deposit. We have been with this power company for 17 years and they can't trust us anymore?
So, DH wants to know how do we get off of the grid? Is there an inexpensive route to take? We live on the edge of a small town, but still considered in the town's city limits.
We would appreciate any help we can get. TIA
 

CGTech

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Yep, these power/phone/whatever companies can be as mean as all get out at times. Several things to look at here;

1/ Do you own or rent?

2/ Current source of heat / cooking?

3/ Do you / can you grow your own food?

4/ Storage for said food?

etc.

Assuming you own, how much land do you have? What we/you are talking about here is not just getting off the grid, it is moving towards a self sufficient lifestyle. With the cost of oil/natural gas going up along with the electicity, it don't make sense to go any other route if you can swing it.

If you have some acreage, then you have more options. If not, they can get a little limited.

For heat, no question, the old airtight wood stove is about the only way to go. We have two (second was just added last year to replace the wood furnace), and I block / split / store our own wood. Currently I have 30+ cords in 8 foot lenghts sitting in the yard, with about another 20 cords coming. The stove we just put in is a Drolet, made up in Quebec, it cost us about $450 at a local hardware store. (pic below)

For lighting, if you can setup some type of self power rig, perhaps 12volt / battery, or propane or oil lamps.

I do have plans/diagrams on setting up waterwheels etc, but you do need the stream in the right place as well....

For food storage, yes, we still use a freezer, but also can as much as we are able to. You can also build a root celler quite easily (lots of plans on the internet) to store garden produce for the winter. Clamping can also be used if you are not in too cold an area.

We are not off the grid either. Simply can't afford it, so we go towards as much self sufficincy in other areas as possible.

But if I ever won the lottery....... this is what i would do...

Rebuild, either solid log or stone. Something built solid enough to handle a Cat 3 hurricane. We got hit by Juan last year. That was enough by itself, caused horrendous damage here. This of course would be complete with bolt hole/fallout shelter
:lol:

Heat/air conditioning would be geothermal, with wood stoves as backup for heat. Power would be combo of solar panels on the roof, as well as wind turbines. Would have a pump for the deep well (just as now), but would add an indoor deep well hand pump (you can get them now that can pump to 300+ feet).

Barn/workshop would also be rebuilt to match the house.

Ah, dreams are nice.....<sigh>

Back to reality - in your case, probably go as we do - one step at a time, based on what you can do financially. One year - wood stove. Next year - root celler. etc.

Not sure if I answered your question really....but hey, it's not even 7am here yet.... :D
 

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rafter

Since 1999
We've lived off grid and are planning on moving off grid again in a few weeks. As DH says...he can't see paying to hook up to something that you have to continue to pay forever.

I can tell you that wind is far cheaper than solar. You also will have to get rid of a lot of stuff that you nomally use.

Going to propane for refrigerator. Not letting those secret electrical users run...like clocks on vcr's and such. They are a drain. Using a microwave will become a memory. Blow dryers put a huge strain on your batterys.

Basically it is a life change. It can be done though just depends on how commited you are to get of the umbilical cord.
 

Freeholdfarm

Inactive
tropicalfish, we are heading in the direction of off-grid, too (though Grandma doesn't know it yet, :D ). We won't go completely off-grid until we have no other options, but I want to be ready.

First thing you do is look at what you presently use power for: what absolute necessities are there? What can you eliminate? What could use something more efficient, as in light bulbs? What other ways are there of accomplishing the same thing, more or less?

Heating: see what options you have to retrofit your house for solar. I'm thinking of the window-mounted heat grabbers that Mother Earth News used to sell plans for. You also need to add some serious mass to your house if you are going to use solar, or the house will overheat when the sun shines and chill off when it isn't shining. After you've exhausted the sun, think of wood for heat, hot water, and cooking. Old wood cook stoves in good working condition aren't that hard to come by, though most of them use a lot of small-split wood and don't heat the house all that well. We have several times heated our house and all our hot water with a barrel stove -- Vozelgang still makes the kits. If you add a sheet of plate steel to the top, you have a cooking surface -- make the plate wider than the top of the barrel, and you'll have warm-but-not-hot edges and a hot center for cooking. The stove itself shouldn't cost more than about a hundred dollars. The money comes in building the chimney, but a lot of older houses have a blocked off chimney somewhere that may only need cleaning and some minor repair (do have it looked at by an experience person before you use it, though).

Cooking and hot water -- see above, but also consider using the sun as much as possible. Solar cookers work any time the sun is shining. Batch hot water heaters (bread-box heaters) aren't too costly to build.

Refrigeration: you might have to change some of your usage patterns, but there are several ways to substitute for a refrigerator. One is a cold hole in the ground (or in a spring of water, if you happened to have one). Another is a screened box on the north side of the house, in the shadiest spot you have -- you don't say where you live, so I don't know how hot your summers are, but this will keep things cooler than just sitting them out on the counter. To cool it even more make a water evaporator out of it by placing a container of water on top of the box and draping burlap or similar material out of the water container and down the sides of the box. This will keep the temperature several degrees below ambient, though if you are in a humid area it might not do as well. Propane refrigerators are nice, but very expensive and you still have to buy fuel for them. There are also some solar ice-chests that were discussed here recently but they also cost a bit. If you have cold frames and possibly a small greenhouse, and get your eggs and milk fresh from your own animals, there isn't much that you actually need refrigeration for. Something small to chill the milk would be all that was really necessary, and if you can't manage even that, make the milk into butter, yoghurt, and cheese as soon as possible, as they all keep better than fluid milk. For meat, raise small animals that can be eaten the day they are butchered during warm weather. In winter you can keep meat hanging in a cold outbuilding. It's also possible to can, dry, smoke, or salt meat as our ancestors used to.

Pumping water: if you are on city water you don't have to worry about this, but if you have a well, do an internet search for deep-well hand pump. I found several, most made in India. Some pump water from as deep as 300', and the one I plan to get will cost under $700 with shipping. It goes in the well with your electric submersible pump, so you can have it available in time of need, but can use the regular pump as long as the electricity holds out.

If you are pumping water with a hand pump and carrying it to the house, you don't want to be using that precious water to flush toilets. Check out the Humanure Handbook and make a couple of sawdust toilets. They work fine as long as you follow directions to use lots of sawdust or peat after each use. A composting toilet wouldn't need to be emptied so often, but is more expensive to build.

Lighting: oil lamps are pretty and lend a romantic atmosphere, but if you try to read or sew or do any other fine work by their light you will quickly have a headache. The light flickers and is really hard on the eyes. (Oh, and keep the chimneys clean, and the wicks trimmed. This, courtesy of my grandmother, who grew up with oil lamps.) A better option is the Aladdin lamp. They are more expensive, and get quite hot, so you need to be careful where you put them (you can actually cook on top of one, if you make a stand), but they give off a LOT more light than an oil lamp. Candles have the same problems as the oil lamps, plus they don't give off as much light and they blow out easily. They are really only a good option for romantic candlelight dinners and beekeepers with lots of surplus wax. Tallow candles stink when they burn. Betty lamps have the same problems as tallow candles, but are definitely better than no light at all. A little story here: I went to college at a small college in Sitka, Alaska, which had about half native students. One day a group of us went in three boat-loads to a Forest Service cabin for a retreat. I was on the first boat. The cabin had few and small windows, and was in among the trees, and it was starting to get dark. As we unloaded and put things away, we discovered that the oil lamps were in one of the other boats, which hadn't arrived yet. So one of the Eskimo boys went down to the beach and picked up half of a large clamshell (from a quohog -- sp?). We had most of the food, so he put vegetable oil in the clamshell, unravelled a strip from the bottom of his cotton t-shirt, placed it in the oil for a wick, and voila, we had light! It wasn't much, but after the near-pitch-dark of the cabin, it seemed wonderful!

Other people will have more information about alternative power sources. I guess most of what I have is about doing without power and getting along fine, which I've spent quite a few years doing! ;) Hope this helps.

Kathleen

Edited to add: I was in a hurry when I posted this earlier, and forgot to mention laundry. A clothesline can easily substitute for a dryer, of course -- and if you have some place under cover to string a few lines, you can even dry clothes this way in bad weather. A greenhouse would be a really nice place to dry clothes in the winter (also firewood). Washing is a little harder. Personally, I need a wringer, because with carpal tunnel, it hurts to wring heavy things like jeans by hand. Lehman's catalog has them, though they run around $200, I think. Maybe a little less. I bought one off e-Bay about three years ago for $35 plus shipping (left it with my ex when we separated so I need to replace it), so you might try that. And scrub boards are still available and aren't too expensive. There are also the little plastic tubs that 'pressure wash' (and churn butter, if you happen to have that much cream!) and they are about $50 or $60. They don't hold much, though. If you have a large family you might try the James washer, but it costs as much as an electric washing machine. Probably hard to find one second-hand, either.

Baths aren't as hard as laundry. Most everyone has taken a bucket bath at some time or other. It's nice to be able to take it in your regular tub or shower, because while you will have to haul the water into the house, you can just let it drain out.
 
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Ought Six

Membership Revoked
Some useful links....

HomePower magazine:
http://www.homepower.com/
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Low-tech electric power generation:
http://www.otherpower.com/
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Ol' Buffalo Alternative and Renewable Page:
http://www.three-peaks.net/energy.htm
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AWH-FAQ: Wind Systems Information Home:
http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/ndsu/klemen/Wind_Systems_Information.htm
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Campbell Water Wheel Company:
http://www.angelfire.com/journal/pondlilymill/campbell.html
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CH4 Backyard Methane:
http://web.archive.org/web/20020811114639/http://www.backyardmethane.com/
 

tropicalfish

Veteran Member
Wow!! You guys gave some great information. I'm going to print out this entire thread so DH and I can do some heavy duty discussing of it.
Some additional information:

We live on 1/2 acre in a double wide mobile home on a foundation with a crawl space. We own the property and it is located just NE of Indianapolis, IN. We are currently heating and cooking with natural gas. We have a garden and I can some of the veggies, but the kids think it tastes horrible. :( I have two small freezers. I like to try and purchase meat when it is on sale and freeze it.
No stream on the property, but one across the main highway from us. On the west side of us is an old stone quarry that is actually uphill from us. Our property sits lower than the quarry. It has protected us from many bad storms.
DH tried to dig a well back before the rollover and ended up giving up. He ran into so much limestone it was going to take a professional to do the digging. I wouldn't think the water would be too deep.
 

rb.

Membership Revoked
I second CGTech on the wood stove. We installed a cheap Drolet (brand) woodstove around New Year's Eve. What cost was not the stove, but the double walled chimney on the outside, about $1000 Cdn. We have an old gas furnace, but it barely came on even at night (we let the fire go out at night). Ours is smaller than CGTech's stove, but heats about 1000 sq ft with ease. We have a free wood source, but we bought 2 face cords for a total of about $120 (rip off) because we hadn't anticipated putting it in. When that ran out around the end of Feb., we burned pallets DH found around town through delieveries for his job. This move cut our gas bill by between $800 - 1000 this year, so it's almost paid for itself already. Not to mention we were cozier than we would have been with gas because we couldn't have afforded to keep it so warm. We've also fired it up for a Sunday morning power failure to make coffee. Power came back on before breakfast was needed.

If you can't start big, try a bit of money saving at a time. Go search for the electricity cost savings thread back last summer or fall? Lots of good ideas there. Savings now in little ways can help to save towards purchases that you can't afford right now. Like double walled chimney pipes.:D
 

tropicalfish

Veteran Member
Thanks rb,
I didn't realize it would be so costly to go off the grid. :(
Like CGTech said, we'll go towards as much self sufficincy in other areas as possible. I've got a lot of learning to do. DH and I are still discussing and trying to determine how we can save and where. The replies have been so helpful to us. If we can cut back in other areas, maybe we can pay for the electric until we can afford to go totally self sufficient some day.
I'm with you CGTech, if I could only win that lottery, there would be some major changes. :D
 

rb.

Membership Revoked
trop, a little at a time. Besides, it's a state of mind that you need to work yourself into. Start by saving energy by cooking more than one meal at a time in the oven. If you're going to cook one chicken, and have two in the freezer, cook two instead. If you have to bake later, do it right after cooking the chickens, thereby saving the reheating costs. Hang your clothes to dry instead of a dryer. Unplug small appliances when not in use. Lots of these cost cutting measures are easily done without discomfort in the summer, so it's a good time of year to start. By fall, you'll be a pro at cutting back.

Also, if you don't budget on paper, start. Account for where every dollar of that pay will go. I do it about 6 months at a time, in advance. Payday rolls around, and out comes the budget. I know exactly what bill needs to be paid that day, and how much will be left over in the bank. I know if there is excess cash (HA!) left over to be applied to a larger debt like a credit card balance. I know exactly how much I can pay for food that trip. I know I have x number of dollars for one of the kids' birthday present. But you have to include EVERYTHING in your budget that you would buy in a year. This may seem difficult if you've never done it (which you may already be doing), but it too becomes a mindset. I've been doing it for years out of necessity.

Another thought. What if, during this summer, you tried "camping" periods. Say, every weekend, or one week per month you shut down all electricity except to maybe your freezer. Tell the children it's a camping week. No tv, radio if you have batteries, lights out when the sun goes down because your not using them, etc. This too may give you a good idea of where you could comfortably cut, and what you would really want to keep if you were off the grid. It's really not that hard, my parents had no power to the last house they built as it took months for the power co. to put the poles in to their house. They used a wood stove to heat (2500 sq ft), same to heat water, bathed in a childrens' pool in the bathroom, ran a genny once in a while for a small freezer. Did without a phone for a while for the same reason. They survived, and even enjoyed most of it.

Anyway, maybe some of these ideas will give the two of you good ideas about just *how* you want to get off the grid, and what you'd like to use as your power/heating/cooling sources.
 

Todd

Inactive
I've posted enough about our alternative power systems on other threads so I would go into them again.

However, as others have noted, it does take require a different view of energy. You really have to start to think in terms of energy as you do stuff. It's not simply flicking a switch but rather do I need to flick the switch in the first place.

It also means looking for all those little power drains like transformer cubes that draw phantom power (There's an article on this at the Homepower site some place.) and "instant on" things like TV's, radios, etc.

It might also mean changing when you do things. When we are on the PV system, the first order of business is to run the electric hot water heater since that is one of our biggest power users. After that we run the gas clothes dryer to dry the clothes we washed the night before when the solar hot water was really hot (Even with lots of hot water we always use a "warm" wash and cold rinse.)

During the winter we dry a lot of clothes next to the wood stove on swing-out arms.

The list is endless.

Good luck.

Todd

The list goes on and on.
 

Camasjune

Veteran Member
I lived off grid for several years as did all my neighbors. Being off grid can be as cheap and simple or as complicated and expensive as you make it.

Several neighbors were as simple as gravity feed water, spring boxes, woodstove for hot water, heat and cooking and a wash tub for bathing and laundry, and one kerosene lamp.

Other neighbors averaged between $300 -$500 a month in systems, maintainence, repair and fuels to have all the conveniences of being on the grid.

My place used a bit of every method. Gravity feed water for the flush, propane for hot water, refrigeration and cookstove, 12 volt battery bank for a few lights, woodstove for heat, cooking and hot water, kerosene lamps, and a generator run long enough to fill the water tank and do a load of laundry, less than 30 minutes a day. About once a month, I would splurge and run the generator long enough to watch a video and top off the water tanks. I had the freedom and variety enough to be as frugal or spendthrift as I wanted.

I never did invest in a solar system. The systems I was familiar with were very high maintainence and I wanted to stay simple. I also did not care for all the battery operated crap that family thought I needed. Wind was not a viable option at my place.

I think the best way to figure how to be off grid is to turn your power off to learn what you do and don't need and put the systems into place one at a time.
 

tropicalfish

Veteran Member
Thanks all. I especially liked the idea of taking a camping trip. That would sure give us a taste of what off the grid life would be. It might, and I mean might, get my three teenage kids off their duffs and do something besides watching the boob tube. :D
 

rb.

Membership Revoked
Trop, you get that I meant "camping" at home, right? Would be easier than I was thinking, too. With kids who are teens, there's no huge struggle with lots of hot water for baths for little kids. If the teens whine about the shower, I'd bet those solar showers would satify them.
 
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