ECON FUNG RED *.*Economic Implications Concerning The Closing of the Strait of Hormuz

Greatgrandad

Veteran Member
Yeah, but all those items you listed were manufactured months ago, at cheaper oil prices, and are sitting in warehouses or already in the stores, so you won't see the increases.

It all comes down to how soon the "festivities" in the gulf wind down. A month or so blip in higher prices, won't translate down to all those items.

Last time we had an even BIGGER rise in oil prices, in 2022, it lasted most of a year, and we survived. So, a month or so elevation shouldn't have a big effect now.

View attachment 593801

With the JIT delivery system, not a lot sits in warehouses anymore. Especially not for months. We are already seeing prices increase in several items, as a lot of prices are based on projected replacement and shipping costs. Been there done that for decades.
 

King Samson

I'm Here
With the JIT delivery system, not a lot sits in warehouses anymore. Especially not for months. We are already seeing prices increase in several items, as a lot of prices are based on projected replacement and shipping costs. Been there done that for decades.
Did the world end and did we go into a major depression, back in 2022, when oil and gas were a LOT higher??

Yes or No?
 

Greatgrandad

Veteran Member
Did the world end and did we go into a major depression, back in 2022, when oil and gas were a LOT higher??

Yes or No?

Who ever said anything about a "depression"? Strawman......

The conversation was about the impacts of this war and SOH closure on people and businesses. If the added costs cause your business to go bankrupt or even suffer serious cutbacks, then for those, it could be called a "depression". Similar for economically struggling families and individuals.

As for 2022, a LOT of businesses closed, and a LOT of people lost their jobs. Some locals even committed suicide due to bankruptcy and loss.
 

Starrkopf

Veteran Member
Yeah, but all those items you listed were manufactured months ago, at cheaper oil prices, and are sitting in warehouses or already in the stores, so you won't see the increases.

It all comes down to how soon the "festivities" in the gulf wind down. A month or so blip in higher prices, won't translate down to all those items.

Last time we had an even BIGGER rise in oil prices, in 2022, it lasted most of a year, and we survived. So, a month or so elevation shouldn't have a big effect now.

View attachment 593801
Those price increases were not accompanied with a physical lack of the underlying commodity though. The supply chain was not interrupted at any point. This time the supply is severely impacted and will be for quite some time even if we could snap our fingers and have the strait totally safe for all traffic tomorrow.
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
As a related concern, I want to remind everyone that US Navy ships recently moved much farther away from the Strait of Hormuz. Why? They knew that they couldn't adequately defend themselves from Iran's missiles and this included our aircraft carriers!

I have long maintained that in a general war situation (a general war is where the big boys, the super powers, start swapping blows), aircraft carriers (and most other large surface ships) become obsolete. I came to this conclusion long ago thinking of missile and torpedo-borne atomic weapons. With contemporary advanced radar and satellite imagery there is no possible way to hide large surface vessels. In a general war, the only possible naval survivors might be submarines, but even here all of the superpowers have very advanced anti-submarine capability.

You should all note that we have never used our aircraft carriers (or battleships while we still had those) in a peer to peer conflict. We have always and only used them against small states and entities which couldn't fight back and presented little to no threat to our carriers.

My thinking has been changing in recent years due to the advancements in conventional missiles. Now, missiles only carrying high explosive warheads instead of nuclear weapons have been showing incredible advancements. These include pin point targeting, hyper speed velocities and the ability to change course mid flight. These capabilities are making US (and other country's) shipboard anti-missile defenses increasingly ineffective and that's why our ships "ran away" from the Strait of Hormuz.

I assume that if Iran had a nuclear weapon and used it against our naval forces that we would nuke them in turn. How would - or could - we respond if Iran sank one of our carriers with conventional missiles.

Lots to think about.

Best
Doc
 

King Samson

I'm Here
As for 2022, a LOT of businesses closed, and a LOT of people lost their jobs. Some locals even committed suicide due to bankruptcy and loss.
Businesses close EVERY year. It's a normal cycle:

..."In 2025, over 4,100 stores and restaurants closed across the U.S., with projections suggesting that up to 15,000 store closures could occur throughout the year. This marks a significant increase compared to previous years.
Business Insider

And, many people lose their jobs over the year... EVERY year:

...."In 2025, approximately 403,000 jobs were lost, with the total job creation revised down to just 181,000 for the year. This marked a significant decline in employment compared to previous years.
groundworkcollaborative.org

Those price increases were not accompanied with a physical lack of the underlying commodity though. The supply chain was not interrupted at any point. This time the supply is severely impacted and will be for quite some time even if we could snap our fingers and have the strait totally safe for all traffic tomorrow.
What have you found missing in the commodity market the past week or so? What part of the supply chain was effected the past week? What products didn't make it to the grocery stores or retail stores the past week, or were missing?
 

Starrkopf

Veteran Member
What have you found missing in the commodity market the past week or so? What part of the supply chain was effected the past week? What products didn't make it to the grocery stores or retail stores the past week, or were missing?
This isn't a movie where things play out in 30 minutes, we're exhausting stored reserves and oil that was already on the water. It's planting season and there are real fertilizer shortages, other countries outside the US are already in crisis, some of which we rely on imports from. If you can still find these things then great get it now and don't cry to me later when you're priced out or can't find it at any price.

I read that and I just see normalcy bias. and on a "prepper" forum that's been warning about peak oil and the fragility of the just in time delivery system we've based the whole world off of for about as long as I've been alive.
 

Luddite

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Can I buy shares of US oil and sell in Asia?

Asking for a friend…
Read "The King of Oil: the Secret Lives of Marc Rich"

Or "Metal Men".
It was perfected by Mr Rich.
Current physical bottlenecks might change the dynamics.
An Embargo is a little different than a bomb gauntlet...
 

King Samson

I'm Here
This isn't a movie where things play out in 30 minutes, we're exhausting stored reserves and oil that was already on the water.
"We're" not exhausting anything. The US is energy independent.

other countries outside the US are already in crisis,
Maybe they should have planned better for disruptions.

some of which we rely on imports from. If you can still find these things then great get it now and don't cry to me later when you're priced out or can't find it at any price.
So, people might miss out on getting their cheap trinkets from China/Amazon?? For a few weeks military exercise?

Oh, the horrors....

:hof:
 

King Samson

I'm Here
What the hell is going on here today???

DOW up close to 1000 points:

1774276266679.png

Oil coming back down:

1774276301582.png

And silver was down to 66 last night, but got a few back this morning. Almost cut in half since it's recent high at 121. Gold down 1100 since it's recent high:

1774276360523.png
 

King Samson

I'm Here
The stock market for some time, and now gold and oil, have some pretty knee jerk reactions to headlines.

Headline: Trump is talking to the leadership of Iran, not mullah's, and has put off for 5 days bombing power plants.
Doncha just love the Algorithms that control the market...

Although, I don't think they're controlling the PM market. That was just the speculators that drove it up, and now are taking it in the shorts.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Doncha just love the Algorithms that control the market...

Although, I don't think they're controlling the PM market. That was just the speculators that drove it up, and now are taking it in the shorts.
It's all over my head.

In one reply it's all about manipulation. In another, one doesn't have anything to do with the other. As in gas prices are gas prices and oil prices are oil prices and one doesn't have anything to do with the other.

And people pulling money out of gold and back into the market isn't a thing or way to make money. And Gold isn't a safe haven when the market is going down.

And the only bonds I know about are with my dog. Or was.

All I know for sure is what the price of gas is when I buy it.
 

Starrkopf

Veteran Member
Manipulation can dislocate the numbers from reality but eventually you can't cook the books anymore and stuff like 2008 happens again. I'm still expecting serious problems and not just in the oil sector.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
60% increase in fertiliser costs reported amid warning over food prices - [IRELAND]
Updated / Monday, 23 Mar 2026 14:29


Aengus Cox By Aengus Cox
Agriculture and Consumer Affairs Correspondent

Experts are warning of a jump of up to 10% in food prices as a result of sustained input cost rises for farmers due to the conflict in the Middle East.

In recent weeks the price of agricultural, or green, diesel has jumped by more than half - from around €0.98 per litre to around €1.50 per litre - while many fertilisers have risen in cost by more than a third.

The price of protected urea, a widely used fertiliser, in particular has jumped with some suppliers halting sales of the product.

Kilkenny-based beef and tillage farmer James Drea said he has experienced a 60% increase in his fertiliser costs "in the space of a couple of weeks".

Kilkenny-based beef and tillage farmer James Drea.
'We'll just have to try to weather the storm,' says farmer James Drea
A farmer adding fuel to a tracker

"The challenging part about the (tillage) sector is that everybody else passes their rising costs on, but we can't pass any costs on because we're dealing with a world market and we're price takers - not price makers," Mr Drea added.

The young farmer is insulated from the sharp hike in green diesel for now as he filled up his 8,000-litre tank just before the recent surge.

He said his supply will likely last another couple of weeks, but then he will be exposed to the jump.

"We'll just have to try to weather the storm, but profits are going to be non-existent," he said.

Low fertiliser supplies will impact price of every food.

Fertiliser in a bag.

Close-up shot of a heap of fertiliser
Agri-food economist Thia Hennessy said fertiliser costs will have the most significant impact on the food supply chain
UCC agri-food economist Thia Hennessy said while fuel and electricity price rises at farm level will increase costs across the food supply chain, the "most significant" impact will be because of fertiliser.

Ms Hennessy points out that "about a fifth of the world's fertiliser is produced in the Middle East and about a third of the traded fertiliser in the world passes through the Strait of Hormuz".

"So any limit in the availability of or the price of fertiliser will really impact the price of every food," she said.

However, she added it might take some time before we see the impact on food prices.

She said: "We have some experience from the war in the Ukraine.

"When Russia invaded in 2022 energy prices and fertiliser prices increased immediately, but it was three to six months before we saw that impact on food prices.

"That's because it takes some time for input price increases to work through the supply chain and there are a number of fixed-price contracts that need to be renegotiated."

In terms of how high food prices might rise as a result of the current conflict, the senior lecturer in retail management at TU Dublin Damian O'Reilly believes trends going back to the 1970s give a good indication.


Francie Gorman has written to the Tánaiste to call for extra support for farmers
Mr O'Reilly said: "Evidence from oil price increases that sustained over several months show there's a significant increase in the price of food that seems to follow an oil price rise.

"The most recent example has been the Ukraine war.

"If we track that, you can probably see that there's going to be an increase of 8% - 10% in grocery inflation.

"An average household will see an increase probably of around €50 to €60 per month (in grocery spend) as a result."

The Government is expected to announce measures later to help mitigate the impact of soaring fuel prices.

A fuel tank on a farm
Measures to help mitigate the impact of soaring fuel prices are expected to be announced
Ahead of that, Irish Farmers' Association President Francie Gorman has written to Tánaiste and Minister for Finance Simon Harris to call for extra support for farmers.

Mr Gorman is "requesting that he suspends the carbon tax on marked gas oil (green diesel and kerosene).

"Government tax on green diesel is circa 22c per litre, of which 17c is carbon tax."

"The only way the Government can make a significant difference to taxation on green diesel is to address carbon tax," Mr Gorman said, adding "there is no alternative fuel source for agricultural vehicles, so the tax cannot achieve its objective".

The IFA president also pointed out that "at EU level, the option exists to suspend the Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism and this would help to mitigate price increases".
 

King Samson

I'm Here
It's all over my head.

In one reply it's all about manipulation. In another, one doesn't have anything to do with the other. As in gas prices are gas prices and oil prices are oil prices and one doesn't have anything to do with the other.
The way some markets respond to the headlines and the knee jerk by the Algos... is nuts.. Joe Six Pack doesn't stand a chance to react. Sometimes the best plan, is not to play... Or, just be in it, for the long haul...
And the only bonds I know about are with my dog. Or was.
Totally agree.. You had to bring that up. My BIGGEST investment was the bond with my past dude too. That was the most important financial "bond" that I had.

I had this flag custom painted for him, when he was still here. The artist originally had a German Shepherd on it, but I asked her to put my dude's silhouette on it, instead. He was a working Labrador Retriever. It's still hanging on my wall in my office, even though I lost him to cancer last year. Best dog ever!

Bond flag.jpg
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
Send in the B-52's and start Ark Light bombing the entire country, starting at the straits. Keep bombing until all the missiles stop!
 

King Samson

I'm Here
There is absolutely -0- war related reason for any station in the US to be out of gas.
Maybe there was a panic rush, for everyone to fill up, before the next spike in price, and the stations couldn't handle that volume, based on their current inventory in their tanks.
 

King Samson

I'm Here
Well, we survived another day, without a Depression.

DOW closed up +631 points

Oil dropped from around 100 yesterday, to 88 today.

Gold and silver.... well.... still dropping....
 

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
Well, we survived another day, without a Depression.

DOW closed up +631 points

Oil dropped from around 100 yesterday, to 88 today.

Gold and silver.... well.... still dropping....
A depression is something I have experienced. I grew up during the tail end of the depression. My family was dirt poor. Strangely enough, I didn't realize I was poor....until I saw the cake eater section of Dearborn Mi. The residences had nice cars, fancy homes, and entertained themselves on the golf links hoping for a hole in one. As a scruffy Italian kid, I was looked on as a foreigner...even though I was born right here in the good ole USA.

NOTE1: Text books claim the depression ended in the 30's. Not so. It ended after WW2.
NOTE2: To be successful during rough times isn't easy...however it's doable...if you WANT IT ENOUGH.
 

King Samson

I'm Here
Why should the Comex have all the fun? /sarc

We do not have free markets, just manipulated ones where they pick the winners and losers.
Speaking of COMEX and the PM market, wasn't there multiple warnings that the COMEX wasn't going to be able to fill all their March orders, with would trigger a meltdown, and BIG spike to the Silver market?

What happened? Looks like nothing has changed the past few months in the PM market. Prices are still way down from record highs in January.
 

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
Speaking of COMEX and the PM market, wasn't there multiple warnings that the COMEX wasn't going to be able to fill all their March orders, with would trigger a meltdown, and BIG spike to the Silver market?

What happened? Looks like nothing has changed the past few months in the PM market. Prices are still way down from record highs in January.
Year over year PMS are up substantially. Stocks? I'd be very suspicious of these one day rallies. To quote Alan Greenspan ....irrational exuberance....roll dem dice...7 come 11...HOPEFULLY...cause daddy needs a new pair of shoes.
Let' s keep a close eye on KING DOLLAR. The glue that holds this Rube Goldberg contraption together is THE DOLLAR.
 

King Samson

I'm Here
Stocks making a comeback. S&P 500, back over the level it was at when the Iran war started:

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Also, oil fighting its way back down:

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doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
K.S. you need to understand that I am hoping that the U.S. economy stabilizes. Yes gold and silver are up...that's
good. Unfortunately, the rise of other commodities(and foreign technologies) will cause problems for King Dollar. King dollar, our immense debt, and our warlike posture could result in a world war ...no doubt. Presently with all the untoward rhetoric that comes from the West, I ask myself IS THIS S&IT TALKING BLUSTER OR WHAT?


Note1: I appreciate the stats you have posted. Hopefully the stats are PURE truth. If they are real, that's good.
Note2: Hopefully all your financial endeavors will thrive.
Note3: Advanced technology is a commodity that outshines PM'S. We have a lot of catching up to do. I pray that we are up to the task.
Note4: We are enacting a KABUKI dance with China to see who IS TOP DOG. I hope that's settled peacefully.
 

robolast

Veteran Member

King Samson

I'm Here
Well, was doom diverted? Not seeing $200 oil, are you? No Depression in the near future. Stock Market didn't get cut in half. DOW within 1000 points of record. S&P 500 set two new records this week.

Oil way down again....

Oh, and the Strait is back open!! A month and a half after the fun started....

Now what???

1776464797061.png

Oil takes a big move DOWN:

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And Gold and Silver still moving sideways... No 150 to 200 Silver anywhere in sight:

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And lastly... and the BIGGEST news, for all the Panicans that though nuclear war would break out, and Iran will sink multiple ships in the Strait:

Iran declares Strait of Hormuz open to shipping but Trump says U.S. blockade still active​

 
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