GUNS/RLTD Federal Judge Rules Suppressors, Short-barreled Rifles, Short-barreled Shotguns Permanently Legal in 15 States

Ractivist said:
Does a suppressor change the point of impact? If so, about what would one expect.....just curious. Believe it or not, on an arrow, if you put a lighted nock on, it may change it by inches at twenty yards..... Wonder how a rifle would behave at distance.
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Yes, a suppressor will change the POI. You have to keep the suppressor on the gun all the time or expect the POI to change if you remove it. Some guns can have a huge POI change.
 
Depends upon the suppressor, the gun, the caliber, and the distance between the firearm and the target. In some cases, there’s minimal change in impact, and in other cases there’s a substantial change. I’ve noticed that with one of my MP-5K clones there’s almost no difference at 25 yards, no need to readjust the red dot sight. At longer distances, I would expect a definite difference, but at 25 yards, it’s good to go.
 
So an appeal was filed for immediate emergency freeze and no decision on it yet. This was from Google search:

The district court's stay has officially expired, and the 5th Circuit has not issued a new stay yet. [1]
The 7-day pause from the district court expired John Pierce, Esq. - NFA Legal Analysis. Because a higher court has not stepped in to issue an emergency freeze, the federal government is currently operating in a legal gray area. [2]
The situation remains stuck in place for retail buyers due to practical and bureaucratic limitations: [3]

1. FFLs and the ATF System Are Frozen​

Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) are bound by the ATF's computerized tracking systems. Until the ATF physically alters its software or issues a direct policy bulletin authorizing over-the-counter suppressor sales without a Form 4, dealers are forced to wait. Selling a suppressor without paperwork before the ATF officially opens the gateway could cause a dealer to lose their federal license or face criminal prosecution.

2. The 5th Circuit Response is Imminent​

The Department of Justice is actively petitioning the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals for an immediate emergency freeze. Higher appellate courts usually rule on these administrative emergency requests within hours or days of a deadline expiring. [7, 8]

3. Intense Political Pressure​

The delay has drawn major attention in Washington. A coalition of nearly 50 members of Congress sent a formal letter to the DOJ demanding that the administration halt its defense of the registration scheme Rep. Clyde Press Release. They argue that because Congress already eliminated the underlying tax, the executive branch should drop the appeal and apply the ruling nationwide Rep. Clyde Press Release.
 
marsofold said:
Only the 15 states listed are free to make silencers. Ironically, if all 50 states had joined the lawsuit, it could have been shot down as prohibitively "nationwide". Too bad for them. They could have joined in, but missed the boat. 30% of the states just got more free.
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Those bastages over in Jeff City didn't feel the need to throw in with us.
 
Shooter said:
confused here,, im old do you still need a stamp on a sbr?
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Not considering this ruling, you still need the stamp but it is $0 starting in 2026. Everything else is like it was except electronic forms are typical now. Paper is still an option though it will be processed slower.
 
I wonder how this affects owners who have previously stamped weapons/silencers? Will we still be required to follow the requirements for stamp holders or are they just eliminated? Will we get refunds on those stamps?

Inquiring minds would like to know.
 
There is so much confusion over this that it will take months to sort it all out. Will you still need to fill out a 4473 for a suppressor? What will be the process if you already have some items in the NFA and a trust? Do you get those out of the trust or leave them in? What happens if a new administration steals an election and shuts this down? Will this become law or will Congress get off their fat asses and make a new law? I am in Wyoming and are part of this 15 states that sued. I am certain no gun store in Wyoming will sell me a suppressor tomorrow on just a form 4473.
Did anyone hear if the DOJ appealed this decision by today?
 
Wildweasel said:
I wonder how this affects owners who have previously stamped weapons/silencers? Will we still be required to follow the requirements for stamp holders or are they just eliminated? Will we get refunds on those stamps?

Inquiring minds would like to know.
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I wonder something similar. What would happen here in NYS if somehow the Ammo BGC gets ruled unconstitutional. Can I apply for a refund for any money spent on the background check, when it was never a thing?

The other thing, here in NYS, we need a permit to have semi-auto rifles.

All of it is unconstitutional.
 
Hognutz said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2087578380078047740
View: https://x.com/iraqveteran8888/status/2087578380078047740?s=61



While everyone is thinking about transferring their first suppressor with no paperwork I’m thinking of how you’re going to fight drones with suppressors. They have drones. Lots of them. They are very deadly. You don’t have them. That’s the bull in the room nobody is discussing.
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He does have a point.

However, it is good to exercise ones rights
 
From what I understand, the DOJ has until midnight to files the appeal.They actually file even tho the courthouse is closed. After that time, the stay is lifted. But the DOJ still has the remains of the 60 day window to appeal.

Several FFLs I've talked to, until they receive marching orders from the ATF, they can't even transfer stock to buyers using 4473s.

As for the states in the cases, they do not include typical citizens of their respective states. Even though the Kansas AGs website shows different.

I have my stocks for my AR pistol and my Shockwave, but they will stay how they are until more guidance comes out. And I'm a GOA member too.
 
Who has drones? Let’s see, supposedly the strongest military on earth hasn’t conquered a bunch of sand people with their drones and missiles. Drones, like suppressors, are in the hands of law abiding citizens. At this point in time, the citizens have finally achieved a freedom that has been restricted for many decades. Celebrate this moment!
 
But they have tanks! And they have drones, whined the worried ones.

The smart ones realize that those operating the tanks and drones have families. And homes. While they're busy terrorizing the public.
The smart ones know.
 
There's only questions this morning, no answers. Palmetto State Armory put out a video concerning SBRs stating that only rifles bought from them are covered by the lawsuit and you also have to be a GOA member, and go to their website to buy stocks for your pistol :lol:

Here's a video from Washington gun law talking about some of the questions in the air. Bottom line is that FFLs are not likely to sell you an SBR or suppressor until they get guidance from the BATF.

RT 11:55

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zhR_Qh2Buw
 
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R/T 4:35


https://twitter.com/x/status/2087871796368330787
View: https://x.com/palmettoarmory/status/2087871796368330787?s=46



PSA customers: qualification matters.
For the SBR process explained in this video:
• Current GOA member
• Qualifying firearm from PSA
• State/local law allows the configuration and other federal laws followed
Individual components alone do NOT make an otherwise unrelated firearm qualify.
For qualifying firearms and customers, the ruling changes the challenged Form 1 process discussed in the video.
Watch before making configuration changes.
Not legal advice. State/local laws apply. If you have questions, consult an attorney.
 
Capitol Armory's latest. Sorry can't copy the post, on phone. Worth a read though. It isn't too long and summarizes the overall situation and various issues, state and federal. They are a major supressor dealer located very near Austin Texas. They are not making any changes for now.

NFA Ruling Update | Capitol Armory

Court ruling on NFA suppressor registration: what it means, who's covered, and how Capitol Armory is handling your order. Updated as this develops.
www.capitolarmory.com www.capitolarmory.com

Edit: this would be worth some effort for someone to copy the article into the thread.
 
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NFA Ruling Update | Capitol Armory

Court ruling on NFA suppressor registration: what it means, who's covered, and how Capitol Armory is handling your order. Updated as this develops.
www.capitolarmory.com www.capitolarmory.com
NFA Ruling Update

What the August 5 Court Decision Means for Your Order

To our customers,
You may have seen the news about the August 5 federal court ruling in Silencer Shop Foundation v. ATF. It is an important ruling, but it is not a full repeal of the National Firearms Act, and it does not mean every NFA transfer can immediately skip the normal process.
Here is the plain English version.

Current Status
The court paused its order for seven days to give the government time to seek further relief. As of this writing, we are not aware of an order extending that pause. This status can change quickly, and we are continuing to check for guidance from our counsel and the ATF. Our transfer process is unchanged until we have clear written guidance.


What Happened
What the Court Decided

A federal judge in the Northern District of Texas ruled that, after Congress set the federal making and transfer tax at $0 for suppressors, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, and certain other NFA firearms, the federal government could not continue enforcing several NFA registration and approval requirements against the parties covered by the case. The court's order includes Form 1 and Form 4 requirements, registration requirements, and certain related enforcement provisions.
The ruling is limited. It is not a nationwide order, and it does not remove the NFA from federal law for everyone. It also does not apply to machine guns or destructive devices.
The federal government still has time to appeal. Because the United States is a party, its normal deadline to file a notice of appeal is October 5, 2026, subject to any court filings that could affect that deadline. An appeal by itself does not automatically stop the order, but the government may seek a stay while the appeal is pending.


Coverage
Who Is Covered?

This is the hardest question right now.

The court's order protects the plaintiffs in the case and, where applicable, their members and customers. But the court explained that customer protection is tied to transactions with the named commercial plaintiffs and qualifying commercial members of the plaintiff associations.

Capitol Armory was not a named plaintiff, but we are a current commercial member of a plaintiff organization in the case. That places Capitol Armory and qualifying transactions with our customers within the court's member and customer relief. We are confirming the operational details with counsel. Until we have a process we can stand behind, we will continue handling transfers through our established compliance process. If a better lawful path becomes available for your order, we will contact you directly.

If you are personally a member of one of the plaintiff organizations, that may matter as well. We are working through that question and will share a clear update when we have a reliable answer.


State Law
State Law Still Matters

This court order addresses federal enforcement. It does not change state or local law.

Eight states and the District of Columbia prohibit civilian suppressor ownership. Other states allow suppressors only when federal law conditions are met. Gun Owners of America flagged this problem and proposed language to fix it. That language never passed, and how those state laws apply to a limited federal injunction has not been decided by the courts.

That means a person could potentially have a federal argument under this injunction and still face a separate state law issue. We will not put customers in that position without clear legal support.


Our Process
What Capitol Armory Is Doing

For now, our process is unchanged.

• We will continue using the established ATF transfer process for new orders.

• Pending Form 4 applications will continue through the normal approval process.

• We will not skip a required step until we have clear written guidance from ATF and approval from our counsel.

• We will continue to follow the transfer procedures that apply in your state.

This is not because we are ignoring the ruling. It is because this ruling is new, limited, and likely to be challenged. We will not ask a customer to be the test case while the government, ATF, and the courts sort out the next step.


Your Order
What This Means for Your Order

If your Form 4 is already pending:
No action is needed. Please allow the current approval process to continue. We will contact you directly if anything changes.

If you have paid but your Form 4 has not been submitted:
You may ask us to submit your Form 4 now through the established process, ask us to hold your serialized item while we wait for clearer guidance, or transfer your order to another dealer that chooses to proceed under its own interpretation of the court's order. We cannot tell you which choice is best for every customer, because the legal situation is still moving.

If you already own a registered suppressor, SBR, or SBS:
Nothing about your existing registration changes because of this ruling.


We are encouraged by this decision and are watching it closely. Capitol Armory has processed hundreds of thousands of NFA forms over the years. We will move quickly when the legal path is clear, but we will not guess with your property, your rights, or your record.

We will update you as soon as we have verified information.
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So from everything I've read in the GCA, as well as the Brady bill, as far as SBRs are concerned:

The need for Form 4 goes away for protected individuals - if you have/will purchase from a named company. But this then creates a GCA problem since then the GCA requires Attorney General approval. The NFA Form 4 served as that approval for the GCA. Compound the problem for States that you live in with their own SBR laws. Not all States have the same laws for SBRs. Some are prohibited, some are allowed with NFA registrations, and some like Kansas have no regulations on this class of firearms.

The NFA Form 1 also goes away for protected individuals. Building an SBR from a rifle ( by cutting the barrel) or adding a stock to a pistol has always required a Form 1. But since that provision has been blocked, and you ARE covered - we should be able to 'make' and SBR, provided it is legal to do so in you state by your state's law.

The only issue then comes if you were to try to transfer the 'made' SBR which would then likely have to be to an FFL to be covered under the GCA and Brady.

So many people are going about it WRONG and giving bad advice on X, Facebook, and everywhere else.

I personally have a call scheduled for tomorrow with my attorney to see his opinion. I'll reply once I talk to him.

Remember though you need to search out applicable state law also. Document EVERYTHING. Also remember, unless Congress actually rewrites the NFA law, if a non-gun freindly admin gets back in, they could pass the tax back to much higher to then make this ruling moot.

This is not legal advice. Do your homework.
 
Wyominglarry said:
This is going to be a historic cluster**** of biblical importance.
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Biggest issue is while it made NFA items easier for some (me included as I'm a GOA member), but others is seems to have locked them out completely. Even the GOA tried to get language added which would removed the AG requirement from the GCA, and the judge denied that request. So now States requiring NFA registration could be in legal poo poo if the NFA is completely removed. This was a tax ruling, not a 2A ruling. That matters.
 
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