[FARM]Seed ?'s

Jumpy Frog

Browncoat sympathizer
Two questions for all of you greenthumbers out there.

1) What is the difference between heirloom and non-hybred seeds?

2)Where can I get the heirloom/non-hybred seeds for corn and tobacco? I've tried the local AG council, with no reply! And can I/would I have to grow tobacco in a greenhouse or hydroponics here in CA.

Thanks,

Jumpy
 
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A.T.Hagan

Inactive
<b>1) What is the difference between heirloom and non-hybred seeds?</b>

Hybrid seeds result from crossing two or more differing strains or varieties within a given species to achieve particularly desirable qualities in the resulting offspring that that is found partially in all of the parents, but wholly in none of them.

Hybrids can be good, very good, but for typical survivalist purposes they have one major flaw. The genetic makeup of the hybrid seed that you buy is not stable. This means that if you save seed from the crop you grew planted from the hybrid seed the second generation crop is quite likely to be at variance from the first generation. May not fruit the same, produce as much, or as large, disease resistance might be different and so on.

If worst came to worst you could still save seeds from hybrids and slowly develop stable strains of your own that would more or less be suited to your area or conditions.

Or you could plant open-pollinated strains of the same vegetables and fruits that will remain generally stable (there are variables that can affect this) from generation to generation. The corn you plant today will produce seed that is likely to produce corn like the corn you originally planted and so on from generation to generation. It's not always a simple matter to keep a stable, consistent line so if you intend to do this you need to do some studying.

There is, of course, a down side to open pollinated varieties. As a <i>general</i> rule open pollinated varieties are not as productive and quite often not as disease resistant as any decent hybrid within the same species. There are exceptions to be found and some vegetables, grains, etc are pretty much only bred as open pollinated with few, if any, hybrids. Not really possible to give an across-the-board rule here because there are many potential variables.

If you think you want to pursue this then I highly encourage you to buy a copy of Suzanne Ashworth's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1882424581/qid=1085501271/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-6817070-1581553?v=glance&s=books"><i>Seed to Seed</i></a> which is the best book on seed saving I've seen written for the lay audience.

<b>2)Where can I get the heirloom/non-hybrid seeds for corn and tobacco? I've tried the local AG council, with no reply! </b>

Heirloom and open-pollinated corn is easy to find. Tobacco less so, but it can be found as well if you really get out and look.

Keep in mind one thing. The amount of money you will pay for the seed is nothing compared to the time and effort you will put into making it produce for you. It behooves you to put in some quality time researching precisely what varieties are likely to work for you and how best to propagate them. It will takes months from seed to finish so don't scrimp on the computer time before you order seed.

Here are a few possible sources you may want to look at:

<b>Heirloom or open-pollinated corn and/or tobacco</b>

http://www.heirloomseeds.com/

http://www.victoryseeds.com/catalog/vegetable/corn/corn.html

http://www.rareseeds.com/catlisting.php?dbswitch=&cat=14&subcat=18

http://www.batnet.com/rwc-seed/

http://www.seedswestgardenseeds.com/cornindex.html

http://www.yankeegardener.com/seeds/hartseed4.html

http://www.foxhollowseed.com/Vegetables/Corns.htm

http://www.rhshumway.com/

http://www.eonseed.com/

The above list is by no means exhaustive so there's a lot more to find out there once you've seen them all.

Can't address whether you'd be able to grow tobacco in California. It's a fairly long growing season crop down here in the Deep South but I seem to recall it used to be grown nearly all the way to New England so there may be short season varieties. Lots of instructions on how to grow it to be found out there on the net.

.....Alan.
 

housemouse

Membership Revoked
I posted about this company on another thread, and must tell you, I really think they are the best in the business.

They carry both heirloom and hybrid seeds, treated and untreated. They are honest, quick to ship, and they never have "mislabeled" seed varieties, which is a major problem with many seed suppliers.

Their catalog is a wealth of information, and they have quantity prices, as well as mini-packs for the container crowd.

Herbs, Flowers, and Vegetables. Their vegetable selection is outstanding, and they give you the skinny on what is better tasting, performs better in what area, and some nutritional info.

For example, the "Raven" zucchini they carry is much higher in a certain vitamin than other zucchoni, and one of the zucchinis is the best tasting, the "Costata Romanesco". I am growing the latter this year, for taste, and because it isn't as prolific as the other zucchinis. If you are a two person family, there is only so much zucchini you can eat!

All that info I learned from reading theior catalog.

Here is the link to their site. Order their catalog, even if you do not intend to buy from them. The info is fantastic!

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/welcome.html
 

Jumpy Frog

Browncoat sympathizer
Alan, JacqueJ and Granny,

Thanks for the info. Have dozens of seed types sealed in long term storage. Just wanted corn as I have no open pollenated type. And Tobacco for all the Kalifornians with Nic fits, for possible trade/barter. :xpmp: Plus as a medical and garden plant.
 

rb.

Membership Revoked
Jumpy, tobacco is planted here in Canada, but I believe only as far north as southern Ontario.
 

grannyclampett

Inactive
http://www.nativeseeds.org/v2/cat.php?catID=18




Corn/Maize


Zea mays. Domesticated along the Rio Balsas of Mexico about 2000 B.C. by Meso-Americans, corn is a staple food and has many ritual uses. Various kernel colors are selected for ceremonies and feast foods, and pollen is collected for ceremonial and medicinal purposes..

Flour
Soft grinding corn used for cornmeal, elote (roasting corn or fresh talmale corn) and hominy (masa or Nixtamal).

Flour/Flint Corn
Ears have a mix of hard, flint kernels and soft, floury kernels. When dry, flints generally store better and have greater resistance to insect damage.

Flint
Kernels are hard and flinty. When dry, flints generally store better and have greater resistance to insect damage.

Dent Corn
Mature kernels are dented due to flour heart and flint sides. Used for elote (roasted), tamales, tortillas, corn beer & animal feed.

Sweet Corn
Used for pinole, roasted and reconstituted, or fresh boiled. Kernel colors develop when the corn is past milk stage.

Popcorn
Used for pinole (toasted and ground) and as popped corn. Popcorns are flint corns.

Research Corn
These corn listings consist of collections that have been made in remote areas of Mexico. We have little knowledge of their day-length requirements; that is, whether they require decreasing day length [more...]

Culture
In early spring just before last frost, or with summer rains in the low desert, plant seeds 1 inch deep in rows, clumps, or basins. If saving seeds, a minimum of 100 plants is desirable to maintain genetic diversity. Corn needs rich soil and moisture to produce a crop. Drought stress, high winds, heat and low humidity can all reduce pollination.

Seedsaving
An annual, corn is wind pollinated, and all varieties will cross easily. A distance of at least 1/4 mile or staggered planting times is necessary to keep seeds pure. Hand pollinating can ensure full ears of kernels. Allow ears to mature on the plant; check for ear worms to prevent damage. Ideally, ears should be field dried before harvesting. However, sweet corns allowed to dry on the stalk during high temperatures can ferment, ruining the seed. Dry seeds thoroughly before storing. For long-term storage, we recommend storing whole ears.




http://www.nativeseeds.org/v2/cat.php?catID=37




Tobacco 4 items


Tobacco, used as a sacred and medicinal herb, is an important part of Indian culture and folklore. This species, which came north from South America before 1500 AD, is now extremely rare. Can be used as an organic insecticide (with appropriate caution). Approx. 25 seeds/ packet. .

Isleta Pueblo
Nicotiana rustica. From the pueblo south of Albuquerque, NM. Plants grow to 4 1/2 feet, including flowers. High Desert
From $2.50
>25 seeds $2.503 grams / Bulk $6.00 qty 123456

Santo Domingo Ceremonial
Nicotiana rustica. A cultivated annual grown in irrigatied gardens by various Puebloans. Used in rain ceremonials.
$2.50
qty 123456

Tarahumara El Cuervo
Nicotiana rustica. From a very isolated area of Batopilas Canyon, Chihuahua, Mexico. Smoked traditionally by older Tarahumaras.
$2.50
qty 123456

Punche
NEW! Nicotiana rustica. From northern New Mexico, it was used by early Spanish settlers until the 1930's.
From $2.50
0.1grams/>25 seeds $2.503 grams $6.00 qty 123456



4 items

Culture
Plant the tiny seeds in the spring, and cover with light sandy soil. Can be started indoors and transplanted. Plant 1 ft. apart.

Seedsaving
An insect-pollinated annual, varieties will cross. Remove mature sedheads and crush capsules in a bag or on a tray. Use a fan or light breeze to remove chaff.
 

Jumpy Frog

Browncoat sympathizer
TB2K my braintrust. Thanks again Granny and you too rb.

If tobacco will grow that far north I should have little problem here I think. And the corn is a given soon as I get paid.

Thanks to all.
 
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