Celestial Claim for giant ‘Planet Nine’ at Solar System’s edge takes a hit

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Posted for fair use.....

P9_KBO_extras_orbits_1280x720.jpg


The clustered orbits of six distant worlds (purple) were invoked as evidence for Planet Nine (orange). But some think the clustering might just be an observational bias.
California Institute of Technology/R. Hurt (IPAC)
Claim for giant ‘Planet Nine’ at Solar System’s edge takes a hit
By Daniel CleryFeb. 15, 2021 , 3:30 PM

For planetary scientists, it was the boldest claim in a generation: an unseen extra planet, as much as 10 times the mass of Earth, lurking on the Solar System’s frontier, beyond Neptune. But the claim looks increasingly shaky, after a team of astronomers reported last week that the orbits of a handful of distant lumps of rock are not bunched together by the gravity of Planet Nine, as its proponents believe, but only seem clustered because that’s where telescopes happened to be looking.

Planet Nine supporters aren’t backing down yet, but one skeptic not involved with the new work says she is “very happy” to see it. The study has carried out “a more uniform analysis” than done previously of the far-off rocky bodies known as known as Trans-Neptunian objects (TNOs), says astronomer Samantha Lawler of the University of Regina, who has tried and failed to simulate the clustered orbits in computer models with an extra planet.

Mike Brown and Konstantin Batygin of the California Institute of Technology made headlines worldwide in 2016 with their prediction for a distant Planet Nine. They based their conclusion on a study of six TNOs, each smaller than Pluto, in extremely elongated and tilted orbits around the Sun. The orbits of these “extreme” TNOs were bunched together, Brown and Batygin said, because Planet Nine’s gravity had nudged them there over billions of years. Several more extreme TNOs discovered since then seemed to cluster as well. “I would argue that the relevant [Planet Nine] data set is in pretty good shape,” Batygin says.

Lawler and other astronomers were concerned about selection biases, however. Given how small and dark extreme TNOs are, they are only visible—if at all—during their closest approach to the inner Solar System, and often only if they are not observed against the bright backdrop of the Milky Way’s disk. Critics of the Planet Nine claim said the apparent clustering of the discovered TNOs might only be because that’s where telescopes were looking or were most sensitive. “Every survey has biases,” Lawler says. “Some are aware of them, some are not.”

Planet_9_1280x720.jpg


Planet Nine is claimed to be five to 10 times as massive as Earth, in an orbit well beyond Neptune.
California Institute of Technology/R. Hurt (IPAC)

A team led by Kevin Napier of the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, decided to test whether selection bias was playing a role. They gathered 14 similarly distant TNOs discovered by three different surveys: the Dark Energy Survey (DES), which uses the Blanco Telescope in Chile; the Outer Solar System Origins Survey on the Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope in Hawaii; and a third that used a variety of telescopes. All three had well characterized selection biases. None of the 14 TNOs was among the original six invoked by Brown and Batygin.

Napier says the team took account of when and where the telescopes pointed, and how sensitive they were to faint objects. With those data, the team calculated a “selection function” that varies across the sky. And sure enough, the extreme TNOs found by all three surveys were in or near areas where selection function was highest, the team reported on 11 February in a paper posted to the arXiv and accepted by the Planetary Science Journal. As a result, Napier says, the team could not reject the null hypothesis that the extreme TNOs are uniformly distributed around the Solar System, which would rob Planet Nine of its foundational evidence. The clustering “is a consequence of where we look and when we look,” he says. “There’s no need for another model to fit the data.”

Batygin doesn’t accept that conclusion. He points out that the DES survey looked largely in the area of the sky where the TNO cluster he and Brown identified resides and found more extreme TNOs. So ruling out clustering is “not logical,” he says. “The more relevant question to ask is: Can their analysis distinguish between a clustered and uniform distribution, and the answer appears to be no,” he says.

Napier acknowledges that trying to draw conclusions from a sample of 14 TNOs is tricky. “There’s only so much statistical power you can draw with so few objects,” he says. The matter is unlikely to be settled, he adds, until the Vera C. Rubin Observatory—a powerful new survey telescope being built in Chile—starts to observe in 2023. Its survey will have well-defined selection biases and is likely to detect hundreds of new extreme TNOs. That, Napier says, “will be like Christmas morning.”

Posted in:

doi:10.1126/science.abh0614



Daniel Clery
Daniel is Science’s senior correspondent in the United Kingdom, covering astronomy, physics, and energy stories as well as European policy.

 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
I wonder if it is possible for such a wandering “mini-solar system” to be much further out and traveling much faster than expected, in other words, it might be well beyond Pluto and the furthest reaches of our system and yet travel all the way to circle the sun and back out in a much shorter time elapsed than ordinary comets. Legends of the “destroyer” go back to ancient Sumerian times, and as more evidence recently accumulates for periodic (on the order of every 12,000 years) catastrophic events on Earth, possibly even mini nova blasts from the sun, periodic visits from a dense, highly magnetic planet system might account for such weird and destructive events here in the inner solar system.
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
I wonder if it is possible for such a wandering “mini-solar system” to be much further out and traveling much faster than expected, in other words, it might be well beyond Pluto and the furthest reaches of our system and yet travel all the way to circle the sun and back out in a much shorter time elapsed than ordinary comets. Legends of the “destroyer” go back to ancient Sumerian times, and as more evidence recently accumulates for periodic (on the order of every 12,000 years) catastrophic events on Earth, possibly even mini nova blasts from the sun, periodic visits from a dense, highly magnetic planet system might account for such weird and destructive events here in the inner solar system.

One could argue that Saturn and Jupiter are also mini solar systems.
 

jward

passin' thru
last I heard astrologers r still willin' to entertain it's existence, but "newest" article in my file is 5+ yo :: shrug :: but whadda I know, I'm still firmly wedded to Pluto as the 9th; those who wish to take up disposing him best double up on their kevlar n cups, n update their life insurance imho.
ETA EC points fer the purty pics tho ; )
I’ve lived through a lot of false alarms about “new planets,” some from the astronomy side, some from the channeled, metaphysical side. Mostly those predictions have been incorrect. I took this one with grain of salt too, until I began to look more closely at the evidence. I now think it is real. I now believe that astrology is on the cusp of a very major paradigm shift. And I suspect it will happen very soon—interestingly, synchronistically, as we move into this Uranus-Eris conjunction in Aries over the next couple of years.


Since the early 1990s, astronomers have discovered literally hundreds of tiny ice-worlds orbiting beyond Neptune. They are usually called the Kuiper Belt (rhymes with “viper”). Eris is one of them. You’ve probably heard of Sedna or Quaoar or Orcus too. Eventually, astronomers realized that it made the most sense to include Pluto as a member of that same family. Pluto seems to be the biggest of them and one of the closest—but it’s helpful in keeping perspective to realize that Pluto’s mass is only one quarter of one percent of Earth’s mass. So it’s the largest of these Kuiper Belt objects (or Trans-Neptunians, as they are often called), but it’s truly tiny, as are the rest of them.


Until, perhaps, now.


What is the evidence for the existence of this new world? Basically, the science is very much an echo of how we discovered Neptune back in the middle of the nineteenth century: by the effects of its invisible gravitational field. Uranus was not orbiting “right,” and the astronomers of that era realized something must be tugging on it. They used the distortions in Uranus’s orbit to roughly calculate the position of the invisible “planet eight.” They turned their telescopes in that direction and—voilà, there it was: Neptune.


Similarly, something is tugging on the orbits of these little ice worlds of the Kuiper Belt. Their orbits are too organized. They are marching to the same drummer. But who is the drummer? No one has seen him.


These ice worlds mostly have highly “eccentric” orbits, which just means they swing closer to the Sun, then much further away, orbiting in long ellipses, almost like comets. The big clue about Planet Nine is that they mostly have their aphelions—that’s the point where they are farthest from the Sun—all on one side of the Sun. So our question, “who is the drummer” translates into “what is balancing them on the other side?” See a visual representation of this.

 

tanstaafl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I wonder if it is possible for such a wandering “mini-solar system” to be much further out and traveling much faster than expected, in other words, it might be well beyond Pluto and the furthest reaches of our system and yet travel all the way to circle the sun and back out in a much shorter time elapsed than ordinary comets.

Only if you assume our understanding of gravity is completely wrong. If the "mini-solar system" is traveling faster it would be in a different orbit, too much faster and it would be in the process of escaping our main Solar System entirely. That's the problem with claiming current science is "wrong" ... you also have to account for why things already work so well (more-or-less) using our current models.
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
Well, for the sake of argument, let’s say that a Planet X is a maximum of 50 billion miles out there or more, and is on a 12,000 year visitation period to the inner solar system,- I assume there is a limit to how fast it could go without slinging right out of the solar system and never coming back- but it seems to me that it might be possible that if we have such a “frequent visitor” that the visits probably don’t spend much time near the inner solar system. My concern is that there might be some “mechanical” cause for Periodic mini novas, but I am not wedded to that thought. I realize that there are internal cycles going on inside the sun, and that may include some that take 12,000 years to accomplish.
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
Well, for the sake of argument, let’s say that a Planet X is a maximum of 50 billion miles out there or more, and is on a 12,000 year visitation period to the inner solar system,- I assume there is a limit to how fast it could go without slinging right out of the solar system and never coming back- but it seems to me that it might be possible that if we have such a “frequent visitor” that the visits probably don’t spend much time near the inner solar system. My concern is that there might be some “mechanical” cause for Periodic mini novas, but I am not wedded to that thought. I realize that there are internal cycles going on inside the sun, and that may include some that take 12,000 years to accomplish.
Ah, scratch all that. I am just now reading Ben Davidson’s (see Space Weather News.com) New book “The Next End of the World” that I pre-ordered and it just arrived. all about what appears to cause micro novas. Think galactic sheet waves and our star and solar system passing through the sheet current every 12,000 years, causing Magnetic reversal and a host of other changes...
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Posted for fair use.....

SPACE
If Planet Nine Is Out There, It May Not Be Where We Think

MICHELLE STARR
15 APRIL 2021

If Planet Nine is out there, a large, mysterious planet lurking at the dark edges of the Solar System, it may not be where we thought it might be.

According to astronomers searching for the hypothetical object, new information taken into account could mean that its orbit is significantly more elliptical than most recently predicted.

The hypothetical Planet Nine made a big entrance in 2016, when astronomers Konstantin Batygin and Michael Brown of Caltech published a paper in The Astronomical Journal. In it, they set out their case for an as-yet undiscovered planet in the outer reaches of the Solar System. The evidence, they said, lay in other objects from far beyond the orbit of Neptune.

These objects are called Extreme Trans-Neptunian Objects (ETNOs). They have huge elliptical orbits, never crossing closer to the Sun than Neptune's orbit at 30 astronomical units, and swinging out farther than 150 astronomical units.

Batygin and Brown found that these orbits have the same angle at perihelion, the point in their orbit that is closest to the Sun. The astronomers ran a series of simulations, and found that the gravitational influence of a large planet could cluster the orbits in this way.

Since that paper dropped, the theory has become very controversial, with many astronomers finding Planet Nine's existence unlikely, but so far we have no firm evidence one way or the other. The most conclusive way the debate will be settled is if we find the slippery thing - and a new update from Batygin and Brown could help us try to do that.

Their new paper has been accepted into The Astrophysical Journal Letters, and is available on preprint server arXiv.

The initial detection of a possible Planet Nine back in 2016 was made based on just six ETNOs - these objects are, after all, very small, and very hard to detect. Over time, more ETNOs have been discovered - today we know about 19 - which means we now have more data to analyze to calculate the characteristics of the planet.

In 2019, the astronomers revised the available information and came to the conclusion that they had gotten a few things slightly incorrect. The mass of the planet, according to the revision, was only five times the mass of Earth, rather than the 10 they had initially calculated, and its eccentricity - how elliptical it is - was lower.

And now they've updated those calculations again.

"However," they wrote in a post on the Find Planet Nine blog, "the question we asked ourselves during the height of the pandemic is a different one: are essential physics missing from our simulations? Through our continued and incessant probing of the model, we have discovered that the answer to this question is 'yes'."

Their simulations, they said, assumed that any object that moves beyond 10,000 astronomical units from the Sun is lost to space. What they weren't taking into account was that the Sun wasn't born in isolation, but probably in a large, heavily populated star-forming cloud with other baby stars.

Under these conditions, the baby Solar System would have almost definitely formed an inner section of the Oort Cloud, the shell of icy bodies surrounding the Solar System between about 2,000 and 100,000 astronomical units from the Sun. The formation of giant planets such as Saturn and Jupiter would have flung debris outwards towards interstellar space; but the gravitational perturbations of passing stars would have pushed them back into the Sun's gravitational influence, so that they end up forming the inner Oort Cloud.

We tend to think of the Oort Cloud as just sort of hanging about, not doing much of anything, really, but when Batygin and Brown ran a whole bunch of new simulations, taking these physics into account, they found that objects in the inner region of the Oort Cloud may indeed move about a bit.

"Planet Nine, however, alters this picture on a qualitative level," the researchers said.

"Due to the long-term gravitational pull of Planet Nine's orbit, inner Oort Cloud objects evolve on billion-year timescales, slowly getting re-injected into the outer solar system. So what happens to them? We have simulated this process, accounting for perturbations from the canonical giant planets, Planet Nine, passing stars, as well as the galactic tide, and have found that these re-injected inner Oort Cloud objects can readily mix in with the census of distant Kuiper belt objects, and even exhibit orbital clustering."

This means that some of the extreme trans-Neptunian objects we have found could in fact have originated in the Oort Cloud, which is really cool. However, the team's simulations also showed that the clustering of the Oort Cloud objects would be weaker than that of the objects that came from the Kuiper Belt, closer in.

This suggests that a more eccentric orbit for Planet Nine would better explain the data than the orbit the researchers' 2019 paper found.

We won't know exactly how eccentric that orbit might be until more study can be conducted of the clustered objects, to determine which of them originated in the inner Oort Cloud; but, there's a limit to how eccentric the orbit can become before it is no longer consistent with our observations of the outer Solar System.

Because the hypothetical planet is so far away and so dim, our chances of spotting it are really low, so this information can be used to refine models, and stop us looking for it in places it might not be - hopefully leading to a detection of this elusive beast.

Even if we never find it, though, the discoveries it has led to have been awesome. A whole bunch of new Jovian moons and super-distant potential dwarf planets is nothing to sneeze at.

Batygin and Brown's new paper has been accepted into The Astrophysical Journal Letters, and is available on arXiv.
 

jward

passin' thru
Oops. I think you dropped this: MOAR purties, fewer words is da formula, member?! :: shakes head ::
As long as I'm destined to be returned to my special :rdog:House anyway, I might suggest that the mystery o' TNOs,
and many other things besides, will be understood in conjunction with our own evolution (assuming we ever again choose evolution o'er this de-evoluting spiral to which we now seem so faithfully wedded :( ). Like so much wisdom, that "as above so below" is truncated in no way gives lie to the truth it contains.

Sounds wooish, yet the best minds and physicist often find that at the end of the day their searches have returned them to the Godhead, and these principles.

1618707148495.png
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
I wonder if it is possible for such a wandering “mini-solar system” to be much further out and traveling much faster than expected, in other words, it might be well beyond Pluto and the furthest reaches of our system and yet travel all the way to circle the sun and back out in a much shorter time elapsed than ordinary comets. Legends of the “destroyer” go back to ancient Sumerian times, and as more evidence recently accumulates for periodic (on the order of every 12,000 years) catastrophic events on Earth, possibly even mini nova blasts from the sun, periodic visits from a dense, highly magnetic planet system might account for such weird and destructive events here in the inner solar system.

I've wondered the same thing. As science currently stands the astronomers on planet earth do not know everything!
 
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