GOV/MIL China to ban reincarnation in Tibet without govt permission.

[USDA]

MSNBC:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/08/22/china-bans-reincarnation-_n_61444.html#

In one of history's more absurd acts of totalitarianism, China has banned Buddhist monks in Tibet from reincarnating without government permission. According to a statement issued by the State Administration for Religious Affairs, the law, which goes into effect next month and strictly stipulates the procedures by which one is to reincarnate, is "an important move to institutionalize management of reincarnation." But beyond the irony lies China's true motive: to cut off the influence of the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled spiritual and political leader, and to quell the region's Buddhist religious establishment more than 50 years after China invaded the small Himalayan country. By barring any Buddhist monk living outside China from seeking reincarnation, the law effectively gives Chinese authorities the power to choose the next Dalai Lama, whose soul, by tradition, is reborn as a new human to continue the work of relieving suffering.

At 72, the Dalai Lama, who has lived in India since 1959, is beginning to plan his succession, saying that he refuses to be reborn in Tibet so long as it's under Chinese control. Assuming he's able to master the feat of controlling his rebirth, as Dalai Lamas supposedly have for the last 600 years, the situation is shaping up in which there could be two Dalai Lamas: one picked by the Chinese government, the other by Buddhist monks. "It will be a very hot issue," says Paul Harrison, a Buddhism scholar at Stanford. "The Dalai Lama has been the prime symbol of unity and national identity in Tibet, and so it's quite likely the battle for his incarnation will be a lot more important than the others."

Read the whole story: MSNBC

 

[Hfcomms]

One thing you can say about the communists is that they are consistent and predictable even to absurdity.

 

[nomifyle]

ROTFLMAO

Judy

 

[ncmissouri]

That is the funniest headline I've read! O brother.

 

[Dennis Olson]

Thus proving that governments feel that by putting ink on paper, that "makes it so." This delusion is seen DAILY here in the US. Just because we laugh at this ridiculous governmental edict doesn't FOR AN INSTANT negate that fact.

 

[Hansa44]

These people get dopier by the minute. lol

 

[Dobbin]

Gosh, the next thing they'll try is to govern without the consent of the governed.

And we all know how that works, don't we.

Sorry. I'm an idealist. There is no other world view.

Dobbin

 

[Melodi]

This is an older story - back when John G was on the air I sent it to him for the weirdest headline of the day - he laughed his head off - he wasn't able to use it on the show because some other breaking story got in the way - but it is still one of my top 10 favorite headlines for a good laugh.

 

[Finch]

China has a lot of VERY bad karma. This will add to it as well. God has ways of taking care of those who would overstep their authority. It will be interesting to watch. Somewhere, someplace we will all get to see how this turns out.

 

[dstraito]

Maybe the .GOV will issue a permit and you get to choose what/who you come back as

 

[Kent]

Maybe the .GOV will issue a permit and you get to choose what/who you come back as

This could result in affirmative action in reincarnation. I see you put down lion, but we have too many in that CATegory , but we do have a shortage of rats and mice, and the permit fee is half price.

 

[Night Owl]

But I don't think you see the trouble with this...it is not that reincarnation can't happens without Government approval...it is that when the Dahlia Lama does die he will be reincarnated into a small child that must prove by acts that he was the dead Dahlia Lama, before Monks were allowed to test and proclaim that a young child was indeed the passed Dahlia Lama through reincarnation......now the Chinese government will never approve any child as being the reincarnated Dahlia Lama because they don't want the religion to continue. The Chinese government has cameras in the temples because people give donations to their religion and the monks must count the money in front of cameras and it is all given to the Chinese government, NONE goes to the Monks or temple...also there are souvenir stores in the temple, the government gets every penny of the sales.

I have been to Tibet, the Chinese government had destroyed all the temples and relics of religion there, the old Dahlia Lama palace was used by military so they kept the structure, but destroyed the religious artifacts during the cultural revolution . All persons that were teachers, doctors or an profession, merchant with money or bilingual was put to death, or sent to work. Camps....I met one man whose father was bilingual and because he was a child and spoke to his father, both his Father and him were sent to work camp for over 20 years. His Father died after a couple of hard labor years of carrying stones and making roads....do you know how cold it is there....now as far as they treat the Tibetans now is a crime, they opened a train and gave. Their land to Chinese families to open up new businesses and take advantage of the poor Tibetan farmers. I could go on and on how they blew up the bridges, they cut every tree on the mountains and sent them down the river to use for building in China.
Just remember that: CHINESE ARE BULLIES, no matter what topic comes up about them and how they react, it's always bully mentality. they also have great patience and plan there future in what they will accomplish in the next 50 years

 

[hummer]

But I don't think you see the trouble with this...it is not that reincarnation can't happens without Government approval...it is that when the Dahlia Lama does die he will be reincarnated into a small child that must prove by acts that he was the dead Dahlia Lama, before Monks were allowed to test and proclaim that a young child was indeed the passed Dahlia Lama through reincarnation......now the Chinese government will never approve any child as being the reincarnated Dahlia Lama because they don't want the religion to continue. The Chinese government has cameras in the temples because people give donations to their religion and the monks must count the money in front of cameras and it is all given to the Chinese government, NONE goes to the Monks or temple...also there are souvenir stores in the temple, the government gets every penny of the sales.

I have been to Tibet, the Chinese government had destroyed all the temples and relics of religion there, the old Dahlia Lama palace was used by military so they kept the structure, but destroyed the religious artifacts during the cultural revolution . All persons that were teachers, doctors or an profession, merchant with money or bilingual was put to death, or sent to work. Camps....I met one man whose father was bilingual and because he was a child and spoke to his father, both his Father and him were sent to work camp for over 20 years. His Father died after a couple of hard labor years of carrying stones and making roads....do you know how cold it is there....now as far as they treat the Tibetans now is a crime, they opened a train and gave. Their land to Chinese families to open up new businesses and take advantage of the poor Tibetan farmers. I could go on and on how they blew up the bridges, they cut every tree on the mountains and sent them down the river to use for building in China.
Just remember that: CHINESE ARE BULLIES, no matter what topic comes up about them and how they react, it's always bully mentality. they also have great patience and plan there future in what they will accomplish in the next 50 years

Well said, Night Owl.

 

[Dennis Olson]

FYI, it's Dalai Lama.

Dahlia is a flower....

 

[bw]

the law effectively gives Chinese authorities the power to choose the next Dalai Lama

That's the take-home message, and no laughing matter. Chinese aren't stupid.

 

[Fred's Horseradish]

China are not just bullies, the communists are demon possessed.

 

[Richard]

both Communism and Buddisim are wrong

 

[Dobbin]

FYI, it's Dalai Lama.

Dahlia is a flower....

Not to be confused with Salvador Dali Lama

Dobbin

 

[DryCreek]

Well, one thing most folks here have missed - if they effectively attempt to ban something, that alone proves its existence. No?
To ban the most central tenet of a religion in some ways actually gives it credence - at least that's my take on it......

 

[Fred's Horseradish]

deleted

 

[Fred's Horseradish]

both Communism and Buddisim are wrong

You don't even believe in religion,(god?) how do you think you are qualified to comment on Buddhism?

 

[subnet]

Looks like the disease our country is suffering from, has really spread globally.

 

[Mark Armstrong]

Well, one thing most folks here have missed - if they effectively attempt to ban something, that alone proves its existence. No?
To ban the most central tenet of a religion in some ways actually gives it credence - at least that's my take on it......

Great! In 2011, China banned time travel, saying that it "disrespects history."

http://techland.time.com/2011/04/13/china-decides-to-ban-time-travel/

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/movies/2011/04/china-bans-time-travel.html

I look forward to being able to go back in time to change a few things--if someone can figure out where to get a time machine made, seeing as everything's made in China these days.

 

[bw]

Well, one thing most folks here have missed - if they effectively attempt to ban something, that alone proves its existence. No?

No.

 

[Dobbin]

No.

This true. They attempt to ban the perception - but are doomed to failure. (Which is the good part.)

Until someone comes down the pipeline with provable memory of a previous life. (Like where I put the stylus when I was a horse on Owner's Farm) then there is unlikely to be ANY proof of reincarnation. So far there has not been absolute proof in recorded human history. And the Tibetian Monks DESIGNATE the reincarnated Dali Lama based on their prayer and other supposedly arbitrary criteria.

Good write up of this at Wikipedia (Dali Lama)

Searching for the reincarnation[edit source]

By the Himalayan tradition, phowa is the discipline that transfers the mindstream to the intended body. Upon the death of the Dalai Lama and consultation with the Nechung Oracle, a search for the Lama's yangsi, or reincarnation, is conducted. Traditionally, it has been the responsibility of the High Lamas of the Gelugpa tradition and the Tibetan government to find his reincarnation. The process can take around two or three years to identify the Dalai Lama, and for the 14th, Tenzin Gyatso, it was four years before he was found. Historically, the search for the Dalai Lama has usually been limited to Tibet, though the third tulku[who?] was born in Mongolia. Tenzin Gyatso, however, has stated that he will not be reborn in the People's Republic of China, though he has also suggested he may not be reborn at all, suggesting the function of the Dalai Lama may be outdated.[30]

The High Lamas used several ways in which they can increase the chances of finding the reincarnation. High Lamas often visit Lhamo La-tso, a lake in central Tibet, and watch for a sign from the lake itself. This may be either a vision or some indication of the direction in which to search, and this was how Tenzin Gyatso was found. It is said that Palden Lhamo, the female guardian spirit of the sacred lake Lhamo La-tso promised Gendun Drup, the 1st Dalai Lama, in one of his visions "that she would protect the reincarnation lineage of the Dalai Lamas."[citation needed] Ever since the time of Gendun Gyatso, the 2nd Dalai Lama, who formalised the system, the Regents and other monks have gone to the lake to seek guidance on choosing the next reincarnation through visions while meditating there.[31]

The particular form of Palden Lhamo at Lhamo La-tso is Gyelmo Maksorma, "The Victorious One who Turns Back Enemies". The lake is sometimes referred to as "Pelden Lhamo Kalideva", which indicates that Palden Lhamo is an emanation of the goddess Kali, the shakti of the Hindu God Shiva.[32]

Lhamo Latso ... [is] a brilliant azure jewel set in a ring of grey mountains. The elevation and the surrounding peaks combine to give it a highly changeable climate, and the continuous passage of cloud and wind creates a constantly moving pattern on the surface of the waters. On that surface visions appear to those who seek them in the right frame of mind.[33]

It was here that in 1935, the Regent Reting Rinpoche received a clear vision of three Tibetan letters and of a monastery with a jade-green and gold roof, and a house with turquoise roof tiles, which led to the discovery of Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama.[34][35][36]

High Lamas may also have a vision by a dream or if the Dalai Lama was cremated, they will often monitor the direction of the smoke as an indication of the direction of the rebirth.[30]

Once the High Lamas have found the home and the boy they believe to be the reincarnation, the boy undergoes a series of tests to affirm the rebirth. They present a number of artifacts, only some of which belonged to the previous Dalai Lama, and if the boy chooses the items which belonged to the previous Dalai Lama, this is seen as a sign, in conjunction with all of the other indications, that the boy is the reincarnation.[37]

If there is only one boy found, the High Lamas will invite Living Buddhas of the three great monasteries, together with secular clergy and monk officials, to confirm their findings and then report to the Central Government through the Minister of Tibet. Later, a group consisting of the three major servants of Dalai Lama, eminent officials,[who?] and troops[which?] will collect the boy and his family and travel to Lhasa, where the boy would be taken, usually to Drepung Monastery, to study the Buddhist sutra in preparation for assuming the role of spiritual leader of Tibet.[30]

If there are several possible reincarnations, however, regents, eminent officials, monks at the Jokhang in Lhasa, and the Minister to Tibet have historically decided on the individual by putting the boys' names inside an urn and drawing one lot in public if it was too difficult to judge the reincarnation initially.[38]

So the selection of the Dali Lama could be seen by western eyes as quite arbitrary. But one cannot argue their success.

It should be noted that the Dali Lama is a SPIRITUAL leader and has not interest in the affairs of the world, rather of the human spirit.

But this is inimical to the Communist Chinese who attempt to suppress the human spirit for their own purposes.

I would like to meet the Dali Lama. It is said that those humans that do come away with quite a feeling of "ease." He is truly a pleasure to be around.

But I'm but a being...

Dobbin

 

[Giskard]

So I only read the heading and had to chuckle. "If we catch anyone showing up as anyone or anything else, you will be arrested."

 

[Ben Sunday]

Reincarnation?

As the late Richard Pryor said: "Ill worry about that when I get back!"

 

[Samsmom]

I'm so glad the Chinese are staying on top of this matter. You never know when someone might die and come back as Mao Tse Tung.