GOV/MIL A woman became a Green Beret Thursday

TerryK

TB Fanatic
A woman became a Green Beret Thursday, a huge milestone for the Army and the military, but she isn’t the first female to earn the title

Kyle Rempfer

6 hours ago


KWO6JINYVNAIRIC5EWNNIT7E54.jpg
Soldiers from the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School don their green berets during a Regimental First Formation at the Crown Arena in Fayetteville, North Carolina on Sept. 26 2019. (K. Kassens/Army)

The first woman to complete the Army’s Special Forces Qualification Course and move on to a Green Beret team graduated today, according to U.S. Army Special Operations Command.

The newly minted Green Beret, a National Guard soldier, will now report to a Special Forces Group for assignment to an Operational Detachment Alpha (ODA or A team) — a groundbreaking moment not only for the Army but for the entire military.

But she is not the first woman to complete the course. Then-Capt. Kathleen Wilder did in 1980, though she was not permitted to graduate at the time. After Wilder filed a sex discrimination complaint, the Army determined that she had been wrongly denied graduation, Richard E. Anderson, her military attorney through the ordeal, told Army Times.

Wilder, a former military intelligence officer, was ultimately allowed to wear the Special Forces Tab when it was created in 1983, and continued to do so over her 28-year career until she retired as a lieutenant colonel.

“This is what I was hoping for, way back in 1980, that other women would be allowed to go through the course,” Wilder said during a telephone interview with Army Times. “Unfortunately, it didn’t materialize [then]. They closed the doors so no other woman could go through until 40 years later, when the ban was lifted on women being in the combat arms.”

Navy Senior Chief Petty Officer Shannon Kent (Courtesy of Joe Kent)

Navy Senior Chief Petty Officer Shannon Kent (Courtesy of Joe Kent)
Women in special operations is nothing new
As the first female Green Beret is expected to graduate in a matter of weeks, the author of this commentary notes that women have already served in roles within special operations forces out of necessity.
Joe Kent

Wilder, whose story was detailed by the New York Times in February, attended the Special Forces officer course during a time when Special Forces was an “additional skill identifier” that she could earn without being in a combat career field.

Wilder was already serving as a jump-qualified intelligence officer at 5th Special Forces Group when she put in an application to attend Special Forces training herself.
 
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ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
Was she BORN a woman?
If not, I'm not impressed by a trannie "woman" becoming a green beret no matter how "drop dead gorgeous" "she" appears.
 

Practical

Veteran Member
I would not have made it through the first hour, good for her! I would say more women could probably crack that nut, but you have to want it more then anything else in your life, and considering the men are worn out after 6 or 7 years, can't say the longevity for the women who pass the course will be spectacular. But, maybe she is the first of many and there will be lots more data to sort through.
 

Cardinal

Chickministrator
_______________
Women should not be allowed in the course to begin with.
Are we going to fight wars to win, or worry about careers?

Furthermore....a soldier in a hijab??? WTF?
Cucked beyond repair.
Often women with language skills can glean info from women native to the country they are in, and having that training can greatly increase chances of survival. There are a lot off ways that women can serve in that capacity.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
Women should not be allowed in the course to begin with.
Are we going to fight wars to win, or worry about careers?

Furthermore....a soldier in a hijab??? WTF?
Cucked beyond repair.
That's not her in the picture of the woman soldier in a hijab. The article talked about both the first woman Green Beret, AND other women who have completed the training AND other women who have served with special forces groups in the sandbox.
You need to learn a little bit about the military.
The SEALs and Army Special Forces have used women in the sandbox for years. The are regular Army and serve as liaisons and fast rope from helos into villages with Seal Teams and others and get information from the local moslem women. The local women don't talk to men, especially US soldiers, but they will talk to US military women who at least is familiar with their culture, and a hijab is part of that. The information given to these US military women liasons has saved many of our soldiers lives. By the way a few have died over there too.
So maybe you should put your own ass on the line before calling those who do "cucked".
 

Faroe

Un-spun
That's not her in the picture of the woman soldier in a hijab. The article talked about both the first woman Green Beret, AND other women who have completed the training AND other women who have served with special forces groups in the sandbox.
You need to learn a little bit about the military.
The SEALs and Army Special Forces have used women in the sandbox for years. The are regular Army and serve as liaisons and fast rope from helos into villages with Seal Teams and others and get information from the local moslem women. The local women don't talk to men, especially US soldiers, but they will talk to US military women who at least is familiar with their culture, and a hijab is part of that. The information given to these US military women liasons has saved many of our soldiers lives. By the way a few have died over there too.
So maybe you should put your own ass on the line before calling those who do "cucked".
I know it wasn't her. I didn't say it was her. Reading comprehension, on YOUR part.
Putting my female ass on the line would endanger other male soldiers, esp. fighting in the Middle East.
I don't have to join the military to be allowed to express an opinion on the OP, and I don't give a damn what you think about that.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
Often women with language skills can glean info from women native to the country they are in, and having that training can greatly increase chances of survival. There are a lot off ways that women can serve in that capacity.
Exactly. They were called "Cultural Support Team"
Afghan women won't talk to men, let alone American military men.
Also the military found out that they had to put those female liaisons in a hijab to make the Afghan women feel comfortable enough to even talk to them.

Here's the story of one American woman who served in that capacity.
Inside 'Ashley’s War,' Story of a Special Ops Program That Put Woman in Afghanistan Warzones
New book "Ashley's War" focuses on a female soldier killed in combat.
By
MELIA PATRIA, MURIEL PEARSON, LANA ZAK, ELY BROWN, LUIS MARTINEZ and LAUREN EFFRON
April 21, 2015, 8:33 AM
9 min read

Inside Special Ops Program That Sent Women Soldiers to Afghanistan Warzones



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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amsVrJ1EnP8



6:39
Inside Special Ops Program That Sent Women Soldiers to Afghanistan WarzonesABC's Diane Sawyer talks with the author of "Ashley's War" and comrades of fallen soldier, 1st. Lt. Ashley White.
— -- There are many unsung heroes in war, but there was a team of female American soldiers who assisted Special Operations forces during the Afghanistan War that few had heard about until now.

The U.S. Army Special Operations Command created a program in 2010 called the Cultural Support Teams. They were special units of female Army soldiers that were meant to build relationships with Afghan citizens as Green Berets and Army Rangers searched compounds in the rugged desert of Kandahar.


In a new book, “Ashley’s War,” best-selling author Gayle Tzemach Lemmon details what these women went through in training and on these dangerous missions, focusing on 1st Lt. Ashley White Stumpf, who was among the first group of female soldiers to go into combat zones as part of a Cultural Support Team, or “CST”. Considered by many of her fellow soldiers as the ‘quiet professional’ and the ‘heart of the team,’ she was the first member of the special unit to be killed in action.

At the time, women were officially banned from combat, but they could be “attached” to one of these Special Ops forces for this purpose, which meant they were inherently in the line of danger.

“Women have participated in conflict for hundreds of years… but these wars are different,” said retired Gen. Peter Chiarelli, who served as the 32nd Vice Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army from 2008 to 2012. “From the time you entered in the countries of Iraq or Afghanistan, you were in harm’s way, whether you were male or female,” he explained.

The “CST’s” would do essential work that the male soldiers could not: they would interface with local women and children to gather information, because in traditional Islamic culture it was considered inappropriate for men to commingle with women.

“This was 2011, the combat ban was still in place,” Lemmon said. “Most of America still doesn’t know that these women were out there. So they knew that everything they did would be not just their mistake, but every female’s mistake, and so I think they worked even harder.”

Capt. Meghan Curran, 28 from Chelmsford, Massachusetts, served alongside White in Afghanistan and said she was drawn to the Cultural Support Team when she first saw a flyer that said “Become a Part of History.”

"It kind of drew you in, you know, with the big bold heading,” she said.

“But, I don’t think that’s really what it was about for any of us,” she continued, “what it was about was the Army was asking for a certain set of women that were willing and able to do this certain mission.”

“We had that bond, that sisterhood,” said Emily Miller, 28 from Evansville, Indiana, a former platoon leader in Iraq, who also served with White and Curran in Afghanistan.

“I have always wanted to serve,” Miller added. “That’s why I wanted to be in the Army… and I wanted to prove that I could be valuable out there and really make a difference.”

One hundred women from across the Army tried out for the program, but only half survived the brutal training known as “100 hours of hell.”

“The common denominator was athletic, fierce and absolutely determined,” Lemmon said. “It’s about intensity and fierceness… and I think they all understood that.”

Curran said women would workout at the gym three times a day to stay physically fit and competitive.

“Girls would go workout during lunch, come back all sweaty and eat their lunch while the next class started,” she said. “Everyone knew that [physical fitness] was going to be a concern.”

Their training at Fort Bragg pushed them to the limits of human endurance in suffocating temperatures. Curran and Miller said they marched about 20 miles while carrying 35 to 40 pounds of gear, which included ammo crates. They also had to practice carrying a “buddy,” or fallen comrade, out of a combat zone.

“If I lacked at something, or if I had a weakness, one of the girls could make up for that weakness,” Miller said. “Somebody else always had the upper body strength that could help me carry the fallen comrade.”

At Fort Bragg, one trainer called Ashley White “the Megatron Quiet Blonde.”

“In the military, strength is so revered… and Ashley had it,” Miller said. “It was very much about showing it, not telling it… and I think they really respected that, the idea of the quiet professional.”

Her comrades said White could knock out 20 pull-ups at the gym, and yet loved to bake bread on base.

“She wasn’t afraid to be feminine,” Curran said. “She was a wife and she was a daughter… she had a soft side and she wasn’t afraid. She wasn’t afraid to be feminine and be a warrior at the same time.”

White, along with Miller and Curran, were at the top of their class and made the cut for this special ops attachment group. They headed to Afghanistan to join the rangers in 2011. The work was so secret, they could not even share details with their families.

Within one week of landing, Miller said she was given her first mission.

When she ran out of the helicopter upon first landing, she said, “all I could see, taste was just dust, just all around me… I couldn’t even find the area where I needed to be to, to rendezvous with the team and I just remember thinking, ‘how did I get here?’”

Miller said her biggest fear right off the bat was “messing up” around the men they were there to help.

“It was the fear of making a mistake that would hurt the team or not accomplish the mission,” Miller said. “That was the thing that weighed on my mind all the time.”

“We were attached, but we were not assigned,” Miller said. “They knew we weren’t Rangers, but we were on the same team.”

The women in the Cultural Support Team quickly learned how to interact with the foreign culture of a very conservative country.

“I learned the phrase, how to say ‘I’m a woman, don’t be afraid,’ and I would call out to them,” Curran said. “That would put them at ease right off the bat.”

Even their hair, the women said, was a feminine asset they relied upon.

“We would take off our helmet once the compound was secure and just kind of let our hair down,” Curran said. “Some girls wore braids… just to make-- be able to make that connection, let them see that we were women.”

However, they said, their uniforms made for men, looked not quite right on women’s bodies.

“Tight in all the wrong places, loose in all the wrong places is how I remember mine feeling,” Miller said. “That was one more reason to let your hair down when you were with the women and children… that was really important to really gain their trust.”

Ashley White’s mother Debbie White said her tiny, 5-foot-2 warrior daughter was shy as a child and struggled to keep up with her athletic siblings, so she never dreamed that Ashley would sign up with the military.

"She was always the quiet one from the day she was born,” Debbie White said. “She always had strength that… amazed us.”

When Ashley got her assignment, her mother said she thought her daughter was going over to “set up medical tents and take care of the women and children of Afghanistan.” Her daughter’s mission was so confidential that, up until her death, White’s family never knew the dangerous path she had chosen.

“The first we learned is when they brought her home,” her mother Debbie White said. “At Dover Air Force Base, they told us what she was really doing.”

In October 2011, White was on a routine mission when a nest of improvised explosive devices at a compound exploded and White was killed, along with two other Rangers.

“What they walked into was basically a booby-trapped compound,” Lemmon said. “And they were trying to figure out what was going on, and as they did, another soldier stepped on what was a daisy chain of IED.”

“It was hard because she was doing things I never, ever would have thought she would have done,” Debbie White added. “She did was she set out to do, and I’m proud of her.”

The last thing she every said to her daughter, Debbie said, was to “be careful.”

“And she hugged me and she says, ‘Mom, I’m with the best of the best. I’m going to be fine. I’ll be home quicker than you know,’ and she walked through the doors and that’s the last thing we said.”

Hundreds of people attended White’s funeral to show their respect for the fallen soldier. Debbie White has left her childhood bedroom in their Ohio home as a sort of legacy to her daughter, with her combat boots, helmet, and various awards on display.

“There are so many women out there who put themselves in harm’s way throughout the 13 years of this conflict,” said retired Gen. Peter Chiarelli, who served as the 32nd Vice Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army from 2008 to 2012. He said the CST’s performed “magnificently” and made a huge impact, showing some of the previous barriers in front of female soldiers have been “totally artificial.”

“Women are not as braggadocio as men are--they just aren’t and they haven’t told these stories,” he continued. “But these stories need to be told-- they need to be told for their children, for their families, for everyone.”

Lt. Ashley White’s fellow comrades continue to remember her as one of the bravest who fought alongside of them.

“[Ashley] was incredibly selfless,” Miller said. “And that’s, I think, one of the things you want out of your warriors.”

“When America and the Army asked for women to do this mission, she felt the need to say, ‘Send me,’ and I think that level of selflessness is extraordinary and uncommon and I’ll never forget that about her,” Curran added.
 

Sentinel

Veteran Member
I know it wasn't her. I didn't say it was her. Reading comprehension, on YOUR part.
Putting my female ass on the line would endanger other male soldiers, esp. fighting in the Middle East.
I don't have to join the military to be allowed to express an opinion on the OP, and I don't give a damn what you think about that.


I did. I was one who was expected to pull the trigger. My last assignment was to the JFK Special Warfare Center. Have them in available support units for when they are needed. But don't put them in as primary operators and certainly not part of the teams.

Hey, I'd like to go back, do some ruck runs, have the excitement again. But I got old. It is a fact of life that I can't physically do it any more. And I never saw a woman complete anything close to what they need to do to get on the teams. Even if they do, you have too many men who will give the woman too much attention (not sexual) and it will cost men their lives.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
Was she BORN a woman?
If not, I'm not impressed by a trannie "woman" becoming a green beret no matter how "drop dead gorgeous" "she" appears.
Why would you call her names when you know nothing about her?
The woman in the picture is not her. I believe that is a female Navy Chief who is serving as a Cultural Liaison with a SEAL team. She is not a SEAL.
She's there to get intel from moslem women in villages in order to save soldiers lives, learn about possible ambushes, and identify and locate high value targets.
 

dvo

Veteran Member
Well, the important thing is that it is a she. Headline announced so. Glad that gender is important in our elite fighting forces.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
I know it wasn't her. I didn't say it was her. Reading comprehension, on YOUR part.
Putting my female ass on the line would endanger other male soldiers, esp. fighting in the Middle East.
I don't have to join the military to be allowed to express an opinion on the OP, and I don't give a damn what you think about that.
She was the only one in a hijab :shk:
Why the hell else would you make the remark about a hijab?

However, I do believe you identified one of the main problems in this country. Not enough people, male or female, willing to sign that blank check and put their ass on the line, BUT we sure as hell don't have a shortage of people willing to talk shit name call and belittle those who do. Those who have paid in blood for the right of lessor people to call them cucks.
 

The4Stooges

Membership Revoked
I see both sides of the coin. First off anyone who can complete the course deserves to get in, male or female.

On the flip side, most men will pay extra attention to a female to make sure they are ok. And like Sentinel has said, men taking the time to make sure a women is ok, could lend them to catching a bullet. Most men do view the women as a weaker sex physically, not our fault. It’s wired into our brains. I don’t mean any disrespect to the females on this board.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
I have no problem with it if they didn’t cut her any slack in order to graduate a female an if she was held to the same standards as a man. In combat arms and especially SF the ability to do the job and pull your share of the weight is paramount.

I don’t think women belong in a direct combat MOS but they all need to be able to fight and trigger pull as support units can be engaged as well. But overall, God designed both sexes differently for a reason even if individuals occasionally can accomplish what the opposite sex can do. Some men can be warm and affectionate care givers and some women can do a 25 mile road march with a 75lb pack on but these are the exception and not the rule.
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
Let me begin by saying....I don't like the idea of women in combat, and I've been in combat. That being said, If they can cut the mustard and really EARN the right, without any special "consideration", compensation or whatever, then go for it. There's a whole lot guys that can't cut it. But the Standards should NEVER be lowered.....PERIOD!!
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
In one of the buffet style training events we went to in Titusville, FL, DW took a block of instruction from a former Soviet Spetznaz soldier of the female persuasion. Other countries do it, and I am not saying we should not.

But standards are standards, and well before I retired the "standard" was fill the force - which meant quantity over quality.

As a retired Ranger friend says - America has the politicians it wants, the education system it wants, the economy it wants, the military it wants etc - why is no one satisfied?
 

naturallysweet

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Everyone fully supports women being in support roles . But we all the standards were modified just so this woman could pass.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
RUMINT has it my old schoolhouse is going to be either greatly reduced in scope, or completely shut down. Time will tell.

I do see from recent graduation photos that classes have gotten smaller.
 

Cardinal

Chickministrator
_______________
I see both sides of the coin. First off anyone who can complete the course deserves to get in, male or female.

On the flip side, most men will pay extra attention to a female to make sure they are ok. And like Sentinel has said, men taking the time to make sure a women is ok, could lend them to catching a bullet. Most men do view the women as a weaker sex physically, not our fault. It’s wired into our brains. I don’t mean any disrespect to the females on this board.
That's cause women are the weaker sex, physically.
I have zero illusions about that having trained in Martial Arts for 8 years now.
There is one particular A-hole I train with who likes to hurt women. He has been training as long as I have. He's afraid of me (I see it in his eyes) so he sucker punches me whenever he can. He is built real solid, squat. The only way I can hold my own with him in drills is to out think him. Thankfully, doing the unexpected with him isn't hard.

Women in any area of combat will have to rely more on their wits and endurance than physical strength.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
I pretty much always thought of all SEALs and Green Berets as the exception and not the rule.
Most men can't handle it, and neither can an even greater percentage of women.
But for those few who can, more power to them and they sure have my respect.

Mentally I could of handled it. Physically with a lot of work I could of done it but I never wanted it bad enough to try. Mindset, skillset and toolset. You have to want it bad enough to endure. For the few men and even fewer women that want it that badly more power to them. Especially when they give you every opportunity to tap out. Hat‘s off to the few that want it that badly.
 

Raggedyman

Res ipsa loquitur
I did. I was one who was expected to pull the trigger. My last assignment was to the JFK Special Warfare Center. Have them in available support units for when they are needed. But don't put them in as primary operators and certainly not part of the teams.

Hey, I'd like to go back, do some ruck runs, have the excitement again. But I got old. It is a fact of life that I can't physically do it any more. And I never saw a woman complete anything close to what they need to do to get on the teams. Even if they do, you have too many men who will give the woman too much attention (not sexual) and it will cost men their lives.

unfortunately that VERY REAL bit of LOGIC and COMMON SENSE has been lost to PC culture . . . go through the course - be what YOU CAN BE but don't try to be what you were NEVER INTENDED to be at the risk of not only yourself but your team members.

dear GOD - will we ever actually returned to N O R M A L C Y and R E A L I T Y in this plane of existence?
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
Why would you call her names when you know nothing about her?
The woman in the picture is not her. I believe that is a female Navy Chief who is serving as a Cultural Liaison with a SEAL team. She is not a SEAL.
She's there to get intel from moslem women in villages in order to save soldiers lives, learn about possible ambushes, and identify and locate high value targets.
Since the Army is required to call a trannie a woman if they insist that they are, there is no way to know if the person who graduated as a "woman" was born one. They won't say. So, I am just stating a fact, not calling anyone any "names". It is regrettable that things have gotten to this sad state. I took no notice of any photos.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
The SEALs and Army Special Forces have used women in the sandbox for years. The are regular Army and serve as liaisons and fast rope from helos into villages with Seal Teams and others and get information from the local moslem women. The local women don't talk to men, especially US soldiers, but they will talk to US military women who at least is familiar with their culture, and a hijab is part of that. The information given to these US military women liasons has saved many of our soldiers lives. By the way a few have died over there too.

Hadn't heard about this, thanks.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Yep, there are many situations where if you want the intel, you got to send a woman in and she HAS to be "properly" dressed by local standards, which is called intelligence work.

I remember when the "rough riders" in Afghanistan angered some military poobah who was "horrified" at their wearing beards and dashing proper Afghani dress while riding the mountains on horseback looking for Taliban and Osama.

His "demands" they "clean up" pretty much ended their usefulness as spies and the lack of horses meant getting around properly was very difficult - but even on horseback being clean-shaven essentially made them wonderful "targets" for the enemy - they couldn't blend in.

In much of the RURAL Middle East, women won't talk to strange men, they just won't and they will only talk to women that they feel they can sort of "trust" (for a given level of trust) and that starts with her being "properly dressed".

This is really different from the situation a women friend whose a veteran of the First Gulf War where women were required by the SAUDI GOVERNMENT to wear full Mulsim coverings even when on route to military meetings and other official business (and they had to ride in the back seat of the cars) simply because Saudi didn't like to see American women in uniform.

The first situation is good, basic "spy" work that goes back to the dawn of time, the second is an allied country the US is helping out basically telling the US how to run its military and dictate which soldiers it would accept and whom they would not based on gender.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Nightwolf has a great way of expressing the differences in dress codes, especially in rural areas when Westerners (or Western occupying governments) try to force women to unwillingly uncover their heads.

He said: "I wonder how they would feel if suddenly all American women were told they "had" to go topless in public? I wonder how many would comply quickly and willingly or would they just avoid shopping and going out as much as possible."
 
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