POL A genuine Troke rant on Trump's botching his response to the election

[Troke]

As is well known around here, I lost confidence in Trump back in October 2016 when I realized that;
1. He does not know what Staff does
2. He chases rabbits.
I thought that laid him open to disaster. Well, he avoided it until this election. It was then that I discovered another Trump managerial characteristic that I should have spotted much earlier.
3. He refuses to plan. A plan is nothing more than a series of pre-formed decisions that guide one's actions when a predicted situation occurs. Well, Trump prefers decisions on the spot in real time based on his gut instinct's interpretation of conditions at the moment.. Thus he makes no plans because they might inhibit his gut instinct. He had tremendous gut instinct results for nearly four years as he kept his enemies at bay because they never could figure what he would do.

Unfortunately, the instinct was not good enough when the problem was a set piece by his enemies. The recent election bore that out.
There are people on this forum positive that the apparent lack of plans just means that Trump plans at a higher level than us ordinary mortals can discern. I got news for them. The Trump election lack of plans was pure Trump, there never is a higher level as we now find out every day.

Here is a plan that might have had some impact on the election results. No doubt there are better ones possible, but none were tried including mine.

Situation
I think it was understood by all observers that the Demo's would cheat to win the election if they had to. In fact some people think the Demos spent four years planning how they would do it. So Trump needed a Plan to counter their efforts.

Phase 1. A Plan would have a pack of Legal Attack Dogs (metaphor there) assigned to each critical State several months before the election. Their public role would be to attract the attention of the State's election officials so the officials realized that they were being monitored closely by people who knew what they were doing. No amateur volunteers who couldn't tell the difference between poll and pole.
At the same time they would scan the appropriate laws to make sure the electors were operating within those laws. Instant legal action if they were not. That alone might have put PA in the Trump column when attention was brought before the election. It seems the State Constitution does not authorize mail-in voting thus nullifying an Act of the PA legislature that did. (The court threw out the Constitutional complaint after the election for being too late!) And for all we know, there may have been others but nobody looked before the election.
Their private role would be to infiltrate every polling system they could to document how they were operating.

Phase 2. The election takes place, and much to the Demo's stupefaction, it was turning into a Trump landslide. They were organized to cheat but only on a small margin in critical States. To cheat at the massive margins now needed will be obvious to any onlooker. What to do?

1. Check...is anybody watching?
2. Nope
3. Good. We can do anything we damned well please because by the time Trump figures out what is happening, it will be too late. The Courts won't buy into it.
Which is precisely what happened.

ALTERNATIVE Phase 2
1. Check...is anybody watching?
2. Well, there are groups of people out there watching us while grinning to their back teeth!
3. Oh Sh*t!
Unfortunately, that did not happen and we are going to live with what did happen. Trump's managerial flaws finally brought disaster.

And evidence of his lack of planning continued. The calling of his followers to the capitol resulted in a total and unmitigated disaster without a single redeeming feature. They thought there was going to be more than just a speech although it was never made clear what that more was and Trump didn't really say. He made his speech and left. Well, some of them went out and got more and we will live with that for a generation maybe.

 

[Valann]

As is well known around here, I lost confidence in Trump back in October 2016 when I realized that;
1. He does not know what Staff does
2. He chases rabbits.
I thought that laid him open to disaster. Well, he avoided it until this election. It was then that I discovered another Trump managerial characteristic that I should have spotted much earlier.
3. He refuses to plan. A plan is nothing more than a series of pre-formed decisions that guide one's actions when a predicted situation occurs. Well, Trump prefers decisions on the spot in real time based on his gut instinct's interpretation of conditions at the moment.. Thus he makes no plans because they might inhibit his gut instinct. He had tremendous gut instinct results for nearly four years as he kept his enemies at bay because they never could figure what he would do. Unfortunately, the instinct was not good enough when the problem was a set piece by his enemies. The recent election bore that out.
There are people on this forum positive that the apparent lack of plans just means that Trump plans at a higher level than us ordinary mortals can discern. I got news for them. The Trump election lack of plans was pure Trump, there never is a higher level as we now find out every day.
Here is a plan that might have had some impact on the election results. No doubt there are better ones possible, but none were tried including mine.

Situation
I think it was understood by all observers that the Demo's would cheat to win the election if they had to. In fact some people think the Demos spent four years planning how they would do it. So Trump needed a Plan to counter their efforts.

Phase 1. A Plan would have a pack of Legal Attack Dogs (metaphor there) assigned to each critical State several months before the election. Their public role would be to attract the attention of the State's election officials so the officials realized that they were being monitored closely by people who knew what they were doing. No amateur volunteers who couldn't tell the difference between poll and pole.
At the same time they would scan the appropriate laws to make sure the electors were operating within those laws. Instant legal action if they were not. That alone might have put PA in the Trump column when attention was brought before the election. It seems the State Constitution does not authorize mail-in voting thus nullifying an Act of the PA legislature that did. (The court threw out the Constitutional complaint after the election for being too late!) And for all we know, there may have been others but nobody looked before the election.
Their private role would be to infiltrate every polling system they could to document how they were operating.

Phase 2. The election takes place, and much to the Demo's stupefaction, it was turning into a Trump landslide. They were organized to cheat but only on a small margin in critical States. To cheat at the massive margins now needed will be obvious to any onlooker. What to do?
1. Check...is anybody watching?
2. Nope
3. Good. We can do anything we damned well please because by the time Trump figures out what is happening, it will be too late. The Courts won't buy into it.
Which is precisely what happened.

ALTERNATIVE Phase 2
1. Check...is anybody watching?
2. Well, there are groups of people out there watching us while grinning to their back teeth!
3. Oh Sh*t!
Unfortunately, that did not happen and we are going to live with what did happen. Trump's managerial flaws finally brought disaster.

And evidence of his lack of planning continued. The calling of his followers to the capitol resulted in a total and unmitigated disaster without a single redeeming feature. They thought there was going to be more than just a speech although it was never made clear what that more was and Trump didn't really say. He made his speech and left. Well, some of them went out and got more and we will live with that for a generation maybe.

Exactly, Anyone with half a brain cell knew what was going to transpire, the same with the Georgia run off election. I don't understand at all why they did not have a plan in place to deal with this! I do know and it is basically as you pointed out, some character flaws with Trump.

 

[The Hammer]

I can't argue with much of that analysis. These are things I also was often frustrated about, along with his seeming inability to keep a loyal and competent team around him for much longer than a month at a time. Some of that was deep state opposition, but not all - I think at least some of it was Trump's lack of discernment and lack of familiarity with the Swamp.

That said, Trump was able to do a lot based on gut instinct. It served him well in business and kept his enemies guessing for four years.

 

[Scrapman]

I think he had a plan but was back stabbed in the end.

 

[SmithJ]

Troke,

That sounds about right...….

 

[Meadowlark]

He was betrayed from the very beginning by his own staff. Still he has done some good things.

 

[Hfcomms]

Gosh, maybe some of ya’ll should of run for President if you knew how to single handedly take on the deep state with it’s media and corporate tentacles and win.

 

[Southside]

Mancala - A lot of game left to play

 

[undead]

alternatively we would have had a President who would have completely disregarded the events and just shrugged their shoulders

 

[Troke]

He was betrayed from the very beginning by his own staff. Still he has done some good things.

As I stated, he did remarkably well. As for Staff, his view is staff is what gets in the way of his gut instinct. And they sensed it so the revolving door. And he had a very poor record of recognizing good people.

 

[Meadowlark]

Everybody has flaws.

 

[BUBBAHOTEPT]

You guys are going to love the next four years. Let’s see whose to blame next: chocolate or vanilla?

 

[Squid]

Trump, like all humans, is incredibly flawed. We sometimes empower our leaders as beyond human frailty but this is naive.

You got me pretty schizophrenic on your points. Yes Trump makes, has made and continues to make mistakes. I differ in the idea he doesn’t plan. I would postulate that he decides what is the priority and plans in great detail those idea’s he sees as critical (I suggest his approach to shifting the US government policy vis a vis China as example 1, his constant use of twitter blasts to get the enemy media to chase their tales as example 2.

But he as again a human cannot take all things happening and all threats since he is just one person.

One attack leveraged by both the democrats, deep state, and media was to create false accusations to remove the most effective and to the left the most dangerous advisors from his inner circle. Think of his administration as an air craft carrier. Remove some of the best eyes scanning the horizon created the blind spots.

I have questioned the reality of the we just don’t see it yet 3 d chess. But he has on occasions been a move ahead of some of the opposition

Do you think the opposition has only one person are a small number with their evil plots and schemes, more likely hundreds each trying to chip away to move their collective plots forward. Some fail, some are countered at great personal sacrifice but they just continue.

But again if the Republic will stand or fall by one man alone maybe we as a people don’t deserve the Republic anymore. If there is not enough people of goodness and light to stand against the darkness then we by our individual choices have collectively chosen darkness.

Of course darkness always seems more powerful because it is built on hate and destruction. To build a great stone cathedral may take years or even decades to destroy it takes a day or less.

 

[Starrkopf]

Trump is a flawed human being, and I think along with Trokes analysis at some level and at some point Trump buyed into his own propaganda about himself, he let his pride and stubbornness lead him to a fall, Also the people he chose for his legal fight were a big fat joke, almost all of them also TV personalities trying to sell themselves rather than fight the hard fight.

Selling the "any day now, we've really got them!" bullshit on TV interviews day after day while nothing happened.

So where are we at now in the aftermath?:

* The Republican party is dead (good riddance anyway!)
* Populism and the greater MAGA movement is dead, in fact it's basically right next to the word
terrorism in the dictionary now... (opposite of what I wanted, don't know about you....)
* Somehow we've snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory and our enemies are even stronger than when we started
and all the gains we've made are about to be undone.
* Our way of life and everyone that supported it is going to be suppressed in ways we can't begin to imagine.

I'm not seeing a lot of 4D chess here, as far as I'm concerned the political side of it is at an end and what comes next is out of my control, I can't really see any way to salvage the mess that he walked right into on the 6th.

 

[BUBBAHOTEPT]

Again, the importance of Trump was that he stood in the way! Never underestimate the time we have had for the last four years. As far as the other side, THEY never thought they lost - that is why they cheated so hard- they are just playing catch up... Now you aren’t confused About What We Are Fighting. It should be crystal clear now....

 

[MountainBiker]

Trump's lack of planning in combination with him being a loner precluded him ever getting control of the federal bureaucracy that makes things happen or stops them from happening no matter who is in charge. As a businessman he could call all the shots but that's not how it works in politics. He went into the White House w/o a team and in 4 years he never developed one. No President ever had turnover of top spots like he did. The White House and key agencies were a revolving door that got in the way of the stability needed to get his agenda deeper into the bureaucracy.

I had high hopes he would be the new Ronald Reagan, and he had it within him to do it, but he just couldn't tone down the ego and stop talking & tweeting. He got in his own way in that regard. Now his enemies won't rest until he and his family are utterly destroyed while the rest of us live in the aftermath of a new regime with no restraints on them.

 

[Sid Vicious]

Trump has always been his own worst enemy. Listen to some of the people that were on his side that he fired. For example, Bannon never talks bad about Trump but every once in awhile the crew and him always give each other the look and state, "you know how he is".

 

[BUBBAHOTEPT]

Now his enemies won't rest until he and his family are utterly destroyed while the rest of us live in the aftermath of a new regime with no restraints on them.

His enemies? They want all of us utterly destroyed, culturally, economically, religiously, physically...

 

[Border Collie Dad]

Trump's lack of planning in combination with him being a loner precluded him ever getting control of the federal bureaucracy that makes things happen or stops them from happening no matter who is in charge. As a businessman he could call all the shots but that's not how it works in politics. He went into the White House w/o a team and in 4 years he never developed one. No President ever had turnover of top spots like he did. The White House and key agencies were a revolving door that got in the way of the stability needed to get his agenda deeper into the bureaucracy.

I had high hopes he would be the new Ronald Reagan, and he had it within him to do it, but he just couldn't tone down the ego and stop talking & tweeting. He got in his own way in that regard. Now his enemies won't rest until he and his family are utterly destroyed while the rest of us live in the aftermath of a new regime with no restraints on them.

Don't diminish what he accomplished.
But, if your criticisms were so valid, think of how much more he could have

 

[MountainBiker]

Don't diminish what he accomplished.
But, if your criticisms were so valid, think of how much more he could have

That's my point. He had what it takes to be this generation's Ronald Reagan. If he had just shut up and put the phone down so much more could have been accomplished.

 

[marsofold]

Is the OP genuinely genuine?

 

[Troke]

Is the OP genuinely genuine?

DO can testify that I am a real person. We have met.

 

[Troke]

When Ike took over after Truman, Harry said;

Poor Ike. When he was a General, he said do this and it was done.

Now that he is President, he will say do this and nothing happens.

That is when you need a staff to ramrod policies through.

 

[Border Collie Dad]

That's my point. He had what it takes to be this generation's Ronald Reagan. If he had just shut up and put the phone down so much more could have been accomplished.

I've never been the biggest Trumpster.

Always gave credit for the good but, also, commented on the things he did wrong.
Sometimes, that got me grief

However, given the opposition and headwinds he has had to deal with, he has done a heck of a lot of good.

 

[Squid]

I am somewhat amused by the attacks on Trump.

Some of the names I don’t recognize as easily, maybe some just logged in to get a shot. Others are angry he has done to little, or he screwed it up.

Why, if you just let me do 1, 2, 3 the world will be farting unicorns and rainbows.

Maybe I missed something because I remember the Clinton administration, and I remember the Obama years, hell I remember Bush and it wasn’t as bad but if you honestly think 4 years Of Hillary freakin Clinton is the answer to utopia, pass the pipe I want a hit on what you are freakin smoking!

Trump had it all. Enough money to be welcome in the elites of the elites club. Living the celebrity life but still managing to have what appears to be decent family (right Joe?).

Do you consider the army amassed against him And His Family And Any friend or business associate to make him hated and despised by some for One Thing.

Think about when he decided to represent 75+ million of us. Now they hate him. But that is really not true. They hate him because of us. They attack him because they despise us. Really he and his family have taken crap and ruthless miserable treatment because of you and I.

And some of us are mad at him????? I will hope there is a plan, but my life is not dependent on the plan.

What ever happens or doesn’t not, I do not want it said I was ungrateful.

Thank you President Trump.

For your victory’s and losses. For your positives and failings.

If he bow’s out don’t think he doesn’t realize they will never it go. If he continues the fight away from 1600 so be it. If the fight continues I am it for the long haul.

Really some of us need to rub some dirt on it because regardless of who the next President is on the 22 our world is changing and we can’t stop it.

 

[nomifyle]

I always have been and always will be a trump supporter, many of the comments in this thread disgust me, however, we are all entitled to our opinions, at least for now.

judy

 

[bassgirl]

I seem to remember Trump trying to put a team together and was obstructed continually for months just trying to get positions filled. 2 years later he still had holes. He has fought an uphill battle from day 1.

 

[Aunt Pittypat]

My impression of Trump is that his focus is money. He rattles off numbers better than any accountant. That's probably why he was so successful in all things having to do with trade and the economy -- before Covid.

He also speaks awkwardly. He thinks so fast that he skips the part that explains the details so it confuses people. For instance, in 2015, when he said that "Mexico sends rapists, drug dealers, ...", he neglected to add the details that explained that it is the policy of the Mexican government to faciliate the illegal border crossing of criminals so they don't have to deal with them. He also didn't go on to explain how very much the drug cartels are involved. The press, beng part of the Clinton campaign, jumped on those few words and labeled him a racist. And so the relentless character assassination was born.

And being a master salesman, he will use superlatives frequently. It's always the best, greatest, the biggest of all. And he has learned that the most persuasive language is at the sixth grade level. These are skills he has honed as a businessman.

That doesn't explain what happened with his campaign this year, though. I agree with Troke in that Trump should have anticipated that the Dems would cheat and planned accordingly. That's on Trump. What happened? Why not?

But here are two curiosities.
1. Mike Mulroney, recently having quit as ambassador to Ireland, said that Trump changed eight months ago. Huh?
2. Brad Pascale, his former Campaign Manager who was fired in July, said that he and Jared Kushner had a plan in place since 2017. It had been worked out in detail with everything they needed including lawyers. He doesn't understand why he was fired or why their plans were dumped so suddenly.

I don't know what to think now -- especially how he treated Pence. It was almost cruel to put the man in that position.

 

[JF&P]

Can you imagine the comments here at TB2K after four years of Biden?....Heck there probably won't be a TB2K IN A YEAR.

 

[Housecarl]

My impression of Trump is that his focus is money. He rattles off numbers better than any accountant. That's probably why he was so successful in all things having to do with trade and the economy -- before Covid.

He also speaks awkwardly. He thinks so fast that he skips the part that explains the details so it confuses people. For instance, in 2015, when he said that "Mexico sends rapists, drug dealers, ...", he neglected to add the details that explained that it is the policy of the Mexican government to faciliate the illegal border crossing of criminals so they don't have to deal with them. He also didn't go on to explain how very much the drug cartels are involved. The press, beng part of the Clinton campaign, jumped on those few words and labeled him a racist. And so the relentless character assassination was born.

And being a master salesman, he will use superlatives frequently. It's always the best, greatest, the biggest of all. And he has learned that the most persuasive language is at the sixth grade level. These are skills he has honed as a businessman.

That doesn't explain what happened with his campaign this year, though. I agree with Troke in that Trump should have anticipated that the Dems would cheat and planned accordingly. That's on Trump. What happened? Why not?

But here are two curiosities.
1. Mike Mulroney, recently having quit as ambassador to Ireland, said that Trump changed eight months ago. Huh?
2. Brad Pascale, his former Campaign Manager who was fired in July, said that he and Jared Kushner had a plan in place since 2017. It had been worked out in detail with everything they needed including lawyers. He doesn't understand why he was fired or why their plans were dumped so suddenly.

I don't know what to think now -- especially how he treated Pence. It was almost cruel to put the man in that position.

If that is the case something had to have happened within the "inner circle" to throw that all into a cocked hat. What that was is the question.....

 

[LightEcho]

Hold on for one more night. Then hold on.

unveiling will soon be the history & reasons.
People
Patsies
Principles
Perpetrators
Plans
Patriots
Providence
Purpose

ahead is a rough path but we let the evil ones prevail for many decades. Radical surgery is necessary for our stage 5 cancer.

 

[Warthog]

I'll save my rants for Jan 21st.

 

[Jubilee on Earth]

I would have to agree with this assessment. I was never a huge fan of Trump myself—I think his ego gets in the way of a lot of things. But, I was a staunch supporter because I believed his heart was in the right place and that if Donald Trump, billionaire businessman non-politician couldn’t beat them, no one could.

In the end, I agree with the assessment that he’s too microfocused on numbers and selling the results of his own efforts, which is what businessmen do. If this all pans out to Biden swearing in on the 20th, then there was no master chess player here. Because even though there were powerful politicians and decades of trash and swamp to overcome, and even though he did a lot for our country, he could have done so much more.

In the end though, it doesn’t matter. What happened, happened. What happens next, happens next. It’s all God’s will according to HIS plan, because He the ultimate chess player, and no swamp is too deep nor too evil for the Lord to overcome. Whether that happens in our lifetime or in another, that is the real question.

Jesus, come quickly...

 

[ohiohippie]

I would have to agree with this assessment. I was never a huge fan of Trump myself—I think his ego gets in the way of a lot of things. But, I was a staunch supporter because I believed his heart was in the right place and that if Donald Trump, billionaire businessman non-politician couldn’t beat them, no one could.

In the end, I agree with the assessment that he’s too microfocused on numbers and selling the results of his own efforts, which is what businessmen do. If this all pans out to Biden swearing in on the 20th, then there was no master chess player here. Because even though there were powerful politicians and decades of trash and swamp to overcome, and even though he did a lot for our country, he could have done so much more.

In the end though, it doesn’t matter. What happened, happened. What happens next, happens next. It’s all God’s will according to HIS plan, because He the ultimate chess player, and no swamp is too deep nor too evil for the Lord to overcome. Whether that happens in our lifetime or in another, that is the real question.

Jesus, come quickly...

MARANATHA \o/

 

[Mikiekimi]

Trump lost me the morning after his inauguration, when Spicer had that weird press conference about crowd size...

I think some folks also elevated, and still elevate Trump to some super-human godlike status. He’s an incredibly flawed person that just can’t stay out of his own way. I agree that he could have been much more successful had he just learned some message discipline, but he is obviously incapable of doing that.

 

[Doc1]

As I have written previously, the fair(er) histories will paint Trump as a tragic figure. No one on this thread - including myself - could've accomplished a fraction of what the man did. He was actively hated by the Democrats and even most within his own party, all of them constantly seeking to undermine him.

The US republic has morphed over time into a system that rewards - and only tolerates - mediocrity and mutually-enriching cabals. Political parties, which once represented genuine philosophical differences, have devolved into craven covens of rentiers whose only interests are self-enrichment. Of course they all seek power (which is its own drug) and which allows - croupier-like - the bosses to sweep riches from the political and financial table.

I was never an ideological Trump acolyte. He lacked a firm ideological and philosophical base and as others on this thread noted, tended to shoot from the hip. Having said that, I agreed with at least 60% of his actions as opposed to the Democrats, with whom I agreed with perhaps one or two percent and actively opposed the rest!

So, where do we sit now? As far as I can see we are just as much the victims of a coup as President Trump is and are left with no political base or power. We are now living under a one-party state and as with all one-party states, totalitarianism - incremental at first, but inexorable - is our future. Our enemies are cunning but ultimately incompetent and eventually this will be their undoing. Unfortunately "eventually" can be a very long time indeed. Exactly as with the old Soviet Union, they are destined to sink under the weight of their burgeoning bureaucracies and sclerotic regulatory systems.

In the meanwhile, we are left with few options but to survive and try to throw clogs into their systems as opportunities present.

Best
Doc