FOOD (NOT USDA approved canning methods) This is how we stored meat outside the refrigerator, during the war in my country

China Connection

China Connection

TB Fanatic

This is how we stored meat outside the refrigerator, during the war in my country​


My kitchen Tanja
1.26M subscribers

About 15 minutes long


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-BOLfexNBM



4,921,262 views Premiered Oct 14, 2022
Preserve meat in a jar without refrigeration or electricity for a year. Beef, pork or chicken with rice, on the lunch table as a complete meal. The recipe is simple. Prepare the dish and store it in the cellar when you need it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
W

Wildwood

Veteran Member
There are tons of these types of food preservation videos coming from foreign countries all over youtube. Their methods aren't safe by our standards. Even if you are a follower of the Amish canning methods for meat which involves a four hour water bath instead of three which your video suggests, there are still a ton of rules broken. The water should always cover the jar when water bathing. Canning rice is very iffy. That jar was way too full for something that expands when cooking like rice does and there is not nearly enough liquid involved. A pressure canner is what most of us use for meat.

China Connection, if you want to can something, there are a ton of us that would be happy to walk you through it. You could alternate meat and potatoes instead of rice. That is really good. I would do it in a pressure canner for 90 minutes but I won't criticize those who use the Amish Method. I'm adding a link to a channel for the Amish Method if that is what you prefer. She has really done her research.

 
db cooper

db cooper

Resident Secret Squirrel
I must say the prepared dish looks absolutely delicious! When canned and stored it would be a great staple for hard times.

My wife watched the video, will copy the recipe and try it. However she will use Wildwood's canning method as we have been doing that type for years. When stored in a dark, cool & dry place, it should last a long time.
 
A

anna43

Veteran Member
In a crisis is not a good time to find out your food storage method is not safe. The best-case scenario would be the food is obviously spoiled and cannot be eaten. The worst-case would be death from eating it and becoming ill with no medical care available. One thing I can control is food safety and that means pressure canning low acid foods which includes meats. USDA has a website with the proper method for canning, drying, curing, freezing, pickling etc. all foods. I've followed those rules for 60 years and haven't sicken or killed anyone so far.
 
C

connie

Veteran Member
There are a lot of fascinating videos from around the world. Uzbekistan and others. They use a one piece lid and a special tool that really tightens them. Like on our store bought jars. Don't think we could replicate it here . Seems a little dicey to me.
 
ShadowMan

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
If you don't own a pressure canner that is something you need to absolutely put on the top of your To-Do List!! Beside food you can also sterilize surgical instruments and dressings and such. Pressure canning is the safest method of preservation. It is not worth the risk to half-azz this method. Yes I grew up with water bath canning...for fruits and high acid canning and you can still do that IF you know what you're doing. However it is far safer pressure can EVERYTHING.
 
Bubble Head

Bubble Head

Has No Life - Lives on TB
We got a couple of Presto double stack canners on sale at Wally World years ago. Seems like they were $80 or so apiece. Keep a couple of gaskets on hand and when you need them they are good to go. The All American is the best and would have liked to buy one but they are very expensive. Close to $400 now days. The Prestos do just fine and are work horses if you are canning a lot. We follow the Blue Book as our guide and only very on a spice or two.
 
tnphil

tnphil

Don't screw with an engineer
I've watched several of these before. They are unsafe and you're gambling with your life. At best, anything canned like this should be well-boiled before consumption, but even that may not break down the toxins. A water-bath canner cannot reach over 212 degrees, which is not enough to kill dangerous bacteria.

Unless you are canning home-grown tomatoes or pickles, use a pressure canner. Green beans and meat are subject to botulism, a pressure-canner can get upwards of 250 degrees for the recommended 90 minutes.
 
ShadowMan

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
Bubble Head said:
The All American is the best and would have liked to buy one but they are very expensive. Close to $400 now days.
Click to expand...

Garage sales, yard sales, estate sales and farm auctions are your friend. I picked up one of my All American canners at an estate sale for $22.50....all I happen to have in my pocket at the time. I got there late and in looking through the many empty boxes in the garage scored a near pristine All American Pressure #921 21.5 quart canner.

The point here is..............................LOOK!! The deals are out there.
 
W

Wildwood

Veteran Member
connie said:
There are a lot of fascinating videos from around the world. Uzbekistan and others. They use a one piece lid and a special tool that really tightens them. Like on our store bought jars. Don't think we could replicate it here . Seems a little dicey to me.
Click to expand...
It's very easy but probably not USDA approved for home use. Those type lids are widely available but you won't find them in a grocery or box store. They are sold by many jar companies and used by those with cottage businesses and also mass manufacturers. I feel safer with the two piece lids used widely here in the US because that is what I've used for years. However, me being me, I had to try lol but I'm not recommending them.

Lots of people who don't have the money for jars and lids, reuse their store bought one piece lid jars. It is a more common practice than you would believe. Again, I'm not recommending them but they do work and quite well. It's been done for years by those who can't do better. I played with the short squatty used salsa jars and got a wonderful, tight seal. That was pressure canning. I've never seen what they will do with a water bath.
 
W

Wildwood

Veteran Member
tnphil said:
I've watched several of these before. They are unsafe and you're gambling with your life. At best, anything canned like this should be well-boiled before consumption, but even that may not break down the toxins. A water-bath canner cannot reach over 212 degrees, which is not enough to kill dangerous bacteria.

Unless you are canning home-grown tomatoes or pickles, use a pressure canner. Green beans and meat are subject to botulism, a pressure-canner can get upwards of 250 degrees for the recommended 90 minutes.
Click to expand...
I recommend adding a little citric acid to the tomatoes when you water bath. So many just don't have the acid they use to. I know the heirlooms are suppose to but I swear some don't. I also water bath jams and jellies and some of my recipes call for a little acid added to those too.

I water bath okra, green tomatoes and squash for frying but they do have a light brine. Even with that, they are probably considered rebel canning.
 
tnphil

tnphil

Don't screw with an engineer
ShadowMan said:
Garage sales, yard sales, estate sales and farm auctions are your friend. I picked up one of my All American canners at an estate sale for $22.50....all I happen to have in my pocket at the time. I got there late and in looking through the many empty boxes in the garage scored a near pristine All American Pressure #921 21.5 quart canner.

The point here is..............................LOOK!! The deals are out there.
Click to expand...
My BIL gave us venison to can. I couldn't do all he had because of time and space. I asked if he had a pressure canner, he said no. I got him an early Christmas gift, a Presto (I think) pressure canner that holds 7 quart jars for less than $80 at Wally World. That's cheap.

And... you can also use it as a general large pressure cooker for big items. I don't think most folks realize that and get stuck on just the "pressure canning" function.
 
tnphil

tnphil

Don't screw with an engineer
Wildwood said:
I recommend adding a little citric acid to the tomatoes when you water bath. So many just don't have the acid they use to. I know the heirlooms are suppose to but I swear some don't. I also water bath jams and jellies and some of my recipes call for a little acid added to those too. I water bath okra, green tomatoes and squash for frying but they do have a light brine.
Click to expand...
I always add citric acid, even if I choose varieties that are not low acid. Sometimes a tablespoon of lemon juice too.

I would never just bath okra or squash, for safety. Brine is not a guarantee.

Seeing instructions/recipes, I think our grandparents got really lucky with water-bathing, they knew half the equation but not the more dangerous half.
 
W

Wildwood

Veteran Member
tnphil said:
I always add citric acid, even if I choose varieties that are not low acid. Sometimes a tablespoon of lemon juice too.

I would never just bath okra or squash, for safety. Brine is not a guarantee.

Seeing instructions/recipes, I think our grandparents got really lucky with water-bathing, they knew half the equation but not the more dangerous half.
Click to expand...
A canning brine also includes vinegar...salt alone wouldn't do it. I guess I should have said they are pickled...like a cucumber.
 
oops

oops

Veteran Member
Thank God family taught me how to preserve food...all of it fda approved?...snort...prolly not...but time tested...without a doubt...the rules I was taught...I still follow...religiously...do I tell folks to follow fda?...new canners?...YES...old canners...I always say...you’re on your own...you do you...This particular recipe?...I wouldn’t do for the simple reason it has rice in it...so that makes me leery of the whole process they use...brinin would make a difference...but...if you ain’t used to brined food...why try it n possibly lose all the ingredients...with that said...don’t have a clue whether you have cannin experience or not...sooooo...on your on head be it...you’ve surely looked at other resources to compare this too...or...I would hope so...if you want a different way to preserve meat...look up potted meat...but...again...you’re on your own...can I pot meat?...yep...do I?...nope...there’s easier...safer ways...that remove the part of pottin I have question about...
 
Raggedyman

Raggedyman

Res ipsa loquitur
ShadowMan said:
If you don't own a pressure canner that is something you need to absolutely put on the top of your To-Do List!! Beside food you can also sterilize surgical instruments and dressings and such. Pressure canning is the safest method of preservation. It is not worth the risk to half-azz this method. Yes I grew up with water bath canning...for fruits and high acid canning and you can still do that IF you know what you're doing. However it is far safer pressure can EVERYTHING.
Click to expand...
Most excellent advice . . . AND I’d also strongly suggest a collection of “spare parts” (seals/gaskets/pressure relief valve/maybe even a gauge) which dry out, crack and leak over time. The old maximum of “one is none and two is one” applies
 
T

Taco Salad

Contributing Member
Wildwood said:
I recommend adding a little citric acid to the tomatoes when you water bath. So many just don't have the acid they use to. I know the heirlooms are suppose to but I swear some don't. I also water bath jams and jellies and some of my recipes call for a little acid added to those too.

I water bath okra, green tomatoes and squash for frying but they do have a light brine. Even with that, they are probably considered rebel canning.
Click to expand...
I just bought my wife a PH tester, haven't used it yet since I bought it after canning season but they aren't very expensive.
 
Millwright

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
ShadowMan said:
Garage sales, yard sales, estate sales and farm auctions are your friend. I picked up one of my All American canners at an estate sale for $22.50....all I happen to have in my pocket at the time. I got there late and in looking through the many empty boxes in the garage scored a near pristine All American Pressure #921 21.5 quart canner.

The point here is..............................LOOK!! The deals are out there.
Click to expand...

I picked up a barely used, 921 at a junk shop.

Thought it was a fair deal at $32.50.

Now you tell me I was robbed.
 
W

Wildwood

Veteran Member
I paid $29 for an older one in mint condition but it needs the hardware replaced to be able to use a weighted jiggler thingy. I ordered it all but haven't upgraded it yet. It uses a toggle thingy and a gauge...not for me!

It is interesting to see the difference in workmanship on it and my newer one bought about ten or so years ago. There is no comparison.
 
Squib

Squib

Veteran Member
Years ago, I was with the wife and kids at an estate sale. Very nice house. The widow was standing there with her grown children. I asked about any prepping stuff, they pointed under a table in the garage to about a dozen or two jars of…something canned!

Looked blackish, no labels on them…looked like one of those old freak shows in a carnival with the two headed baby ,6 legged calf, etc!

I asked what they were and how old, the elderly lady, who was very old and confused stated that she didn’t remember but that It was decades ago, but still good! They’d make me a good deal on it all!

I politely passed! :confused:
 
Elza

Elza

Veteran Member
tnphil said:
I've watched several of these before. They are unsafe and you're gambling with your life. At best, anything canned like this should be well-boiled before consumption, but even that may not break down the toxins. A water-bath canner cannot reach over 212 degrees, which is not enough to kill dangerous bacteria.

Unless you are canning home-grown tomatoes or pickles, use a pressure canner. Green beans and meat are subject to botulism, a pressure-canner can get upwards of 250 degrees for the recommended 90 minutes.
Click to expand...
I've always heard that green beans are one of the worst for botulism. Some years back an entire family in Indiana died from improperly canned green beans.
 
Laurane

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
ShadowMan said:
Garage sales, yard sales, estate sales and farm auctions are your friend. I picked up one of my All American canners at an estate sale for $22.50....all I happen to have in my pocket at the time. I got there late and in looking through the many empty boxes in the garage scored a near pristine All American Pressure #921 21.5 quart canner.

The point here is..............................LOOK!! The deals are out there.
Click to expand...
I thought I had scored with an Instant Pot pressure canner, only to get it home & find it is just a Pressure Cooker
 
S

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Elza said:
I've always heard that green beans are one of the worst for botulism. Some years back an entire family in Indiana died from improperly canned green beans.
Click to expand...
Beets are worse.

But any low acid vegetable that commonly has soil contamination is potentially dangerous. Our beans get soil splashed on them when it rains. Washing bushels of beans is tedious, even though we had large milk house wash tanks to use.

I figured out that a top loading washing machine (with the "deep fill" feature) worked great! Fill it halfway with beans, add a cup of vinegar and set it for a short wash cycle and a double rinse. Clean beans, ready to snip and can!

It's still *absolutely necessary* to get the center of the jar and contents up to 255*F for a length of time to kill botulism spores.

The Amish method of 3 hours boiling water bath for green beans and 5 hours for meat still only reach 212F. But they don't eat anything straight from the jar... it's boiled hard for at least 10 minutes before serving.

They still have the highest rates of "stomach flu" (read: food poisoning) of any group I've ever seen.

Summerthyme
 
homecanner1

homecanner1

Veteran Member
CC knows its not standardized cooking but he added it here to show how folks do more primitive food preservation in other parts of the world. I get it.

Amish canned chicken and beef in water baths long before pressure cookers back in PA. Its one more thing to add to your skillset for surviving in a really hostile situation such as Kiev will be in next year now that their grid has been utterly decimated.

Its good to watch a video or two on drying strips of meat on a tripod over a hickory wood fire. Then making Pemmican. Just in case our enemies throw us back to the '30's as in 1830's. There are some interesting youtubes on sun drying tomato slices on a tilted window screen in the sun before packing in oil with herbs. And Cowboy Kent has some great tutorials on cast iron and Dutch oven cooking in wood fire embers.

One of my fave youtube channels is Justine at Early American who uses recipes from 1790 to 1830. All from scratch. I learn something from every video. They are based in the French historical enclave at Ste Genevieve MO.

I really hope none of this is necessary but probably some of us here should expect civil unrest, curfews, potential local sabotage to various urban grids and a subsequent phase of campfire life for awhile. Watch em while you can
 
T

Taco Salad

Contributing Member
summerthyme said:
Beets are worse.

But any low acid vegetable that commonly has soil contamination is potentially dangerous. Our beans get soil splashed on them when it rains. Washing bushels of beans is tedious, even though we had large milk house wash tanks to use.

I figured out that a top loading washing machine (with the "deep fill" feature) worked great! Fill it halfway with beans, add a cup of vinegar and set it for a short wash cycle and a double rinse. Clean beans, ready to snip and can!

It's still *absolutely necessary* to get the center of the jar and contents up to 255*F for a length of time to kill botulism spores.

The Amish method of 3 hours boiling water bath for green beans and 5 hours for meat still only reach 212F. But they don't eat anything straight from the jar... it's boiled hard for at least 10 minutes before serving.

They still have the highest rates of "stomach flu" (read: food poisoning) of any group I've ever seen.

Summerthyme
Click to expand...
You can raise the temp above 212*F. I first want to say that I don't do this or condone it, pressure canning is too safe and easy to cut corners in my opinion, but if you look at the really old methods they added a lot of salt to the water in the pot.

In the same way that salt lowers the freezing temp of water it raises the boiling point. By bathing in boiling salt water and for extended periods of time they HOPED to kill off all of the nasties. I've even seen one set of instructions that was saltwater bathing in boiling/cooling cycles. That one was pretty wild, time consuming and didn't add anything helpful that I could see.
 
S

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Taco Salad said:
You can raise the temp above 212*F. I first want to say that I don't do this or condone it, pressure canning is too safe and easy to cut corners in my opinion, but if you look at the really old methods they added a lot of salt to the water in the pot.

In the same way that salt lowers the freezing temp of water it raises the boiling point. By bathing in boiling salt water and for extended periods of time they HOPED to kill off all of the nasties. I've even seen one set of instructions that was saltwater bathing in boiling/cooling cycles. That one was pretty wild, time consuming and didn't add anything helpful that I could see.
Click to expand...
So, a saturated salt solution will get to 253*F. Interesting.... but still not to the requisite 255*.

Still, that tidbit will get tucked into my brain. Although with 3 All American cancers, extra parts (haven't needed any of them in 30 years yet!) And 3,000 regular lids plus 1000 Tattlers, and 4000 extra rubber gaskets... it won't be my problem to deal with!

It's wise to think about where the botulism spores come from, and try to be laboratory clean when canning anything low acid, especially if the approved methods aren't available. You can't get botulism if you didn't get spores in the jar!

I'd also say that canning root veggies (carrots, beets, etc) or potatoes ought to be off the list if you don't have a pressure canner... it can be difficult to clean them completely. Plus, they store well in a root cellar, or even left in the ground.

We've lived on the seasonal eating plan for decades... I don't buy fresh warm season vegetables or fruits in winter. Our first greens are winter lettuce... a loosehead lettuce which self seeds and starts to grow in early April (northern NY state) We add chickweed and purslane, as we're weeding the gardens for planting.

Strawberries are the first fresh fruit, and very welcome after the winter apples have run out.

We eat fresh out of the gardens until the first killing freeze ( we were picking fresh red raspberries until November 13th this year!) The root veggies, celery (in pots) and cabbage are used out of the root cellar, usually until March... potatoes usually keep until May, and new potatoes start coming in mid July.

During the "gap time", we eat rice, barley, pasta and the frozen potatoes ( French fries and mashed) I put up when they start showing sprouts.

Berries are frozen and turned into jam. We can applesauce, peaches, pears and cherries from the farm.

Our grown kids spend a LOT of money on fresh organic fruits and vegetables out of season... but they can afford it. I find we really appreciate the homegrown fresh stuff when we haven't had any in a few months.

Summerthyme
 
tnphil

tnphil

Don't screw with an engineer
Why Adding Salt to Water Increases the Boiling Point

By Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D.
Updated on January 02, 2020

If you add salt to water, you raise the water's boiling point, or the temperature at which it will boil. The temperature needed to boil will increase about 0.5 C for every 58 grams of dissolved salt per kilogram of water. This is an example of boiling point elevation, and it is not exclusive to water. It occurs any time you add a nonvolatile solute such as salt to a solvent such as water.

Water boils when the molecules are able to overcome the vapor pressure of the surrounding air to move from the liquid phase to the gas phase. When you add a solute that increases the amount of energy (heat) needed for water to make the transition, a few processes occur.
How Does It Work?

When you add salt to water, sodium chloride dissociates into sodium and chlorine ions. These charged particles alter the intermolecular forces between water molecules.

In addition to affecting the hydrogen bonding between water molecules, there is an ion-dipole interaction to consider: Every water molecule is a dipole, which means one side (the oxygen side) is more negative and the other side (the hydrogen side) is more positive. The positively charged sodium ions align with the oxygen side of a water molecule, while the negatively charged chlorine ions align with the hydrogen side. The ion-dipole interaction is stronger than the hydrogen bonding between the water molecules, so more energy is needed to move water away from the ions and into the vapor phase.

Even without a charged solute, adding particles to water raises the boiling point because part of the pressure the solution exerts on the atmosphere now comes from solute particles, not just solvent (water) molecules. The water molecules need more energy to produce enough pressure to escape the boundary of the liquid. The more salt (or any solute) added to water, the more you raise the boiling point. The phenomenon depends on the number of particles formed in the solution.

Freezing point depression is another colligative property that works the same way: If you add salt to water, you lower its freezing point as well as raise its boiling point.

www.thoughtco.com

Why Adding Salt to Water Increases the Boiling Point

If you add salt to water, you increase its boiling point (the temperature at which it boils). Do you know why this happens?
www.thoughtco.com www.thoughtco.com
 
R

Rabbit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I'd rather someone show a video of the best method to use a pressure canner over a campfire or some such.
 
S

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
www.quora.com

What is the boiling point of salt water?

Answer (1 of 7): Boiling point of salt water will depend on amount of salt that is dissolved in water. The normal boiling point of water is 100C. If we dissolve 58 grams of salt in it the boiling point will increase by 0.5 degrees. Blue Mount Alkaline RO Water purifiers is India’s first Alkaline...
www.quora.com www.quora.com

Either way, it's still not high enough for safety.

Summerthyme
 
W

Wildwood

Veteran Member
Rabbit said:
I'd rather someone show a video of the best method to use a pressure canner over a campfire or some such.
Click to expand...
That would be challenging to say the least. It's even challenging on a wood cook stove but doable. Keeping a campfire steady enough to can meat would involve at least two hours of keeping it the same temp with little to no fluctuations and the winds cooperation. I don't have those skills but I'm sure there's a video somewhere on youtube.
 
Bubble Head

Bubble Head

Has No Life - Lives on TB
It is going to take 90 minutes to pressure can at a constant pressure. The pressure needed is based on your altitude. We use propane and have two extra stand up propane camp stoves to work with and keep that pressure constant. Very important. The stoves run off a 25# bottle and we fill our own bottles from a 500 gallon propane tank with a wet leg. It doesn’t take as much propane as you may think. We top off the tank once a year and for all cooking and canning it uses around 60 gallons More or less. I can’t see keeping an even pressure on an open fire but no problem if you have a good wood stove with dampers.
 
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