GOV/MIL Reports: US highways to be temporarily closed for .mil aircraft to drill landing & departing

AlfaMan

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
SurvivalRing said:
The old discussion referenced the large aircraft, such as bombers, being too heavy for the depth of the concrete used during road construction. In my searches, I never found in any of my hundreds of historical manuals and documents anything to back this question up. Alfaman, think you could dig up anything?
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I remember seeing something in a report off DTIC.mil regarding interstate national system and launching bombers off it, but don't have it in my files.
Wanting to say some stretches of the US interstate were heavier built during construction. The interstate system was considered complete by 1974. Those stretches handling bomber weights were mostly completed by 1970; basically it involved just digging out and putting more concrete in those stretches of road. And if I remember correctly those portions of the interstate system that was concrete, rather than asphalt were the ones to be used for heavier weight aircraft. I don't remember seeing specific highways listed as usable as alert runways, but consider the ones done in concrete and maintained regularly those runways.
 
Knoxville's Joker

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The issue is the heavier aircraft require insane re-enforcement for their landing. airbases that receive them have two strips one getting repaired and the active one. Unless the roadbed is built on literal bedrock.

This is going to cause serious issues with road maintenance for any low profile issues after the events are done.

But if they are getting to this point of instigating this use, they are either getting ready for fast inter country deployments, or, an invasion, or this is part of some new wargames training.

This could be a big program of snatch and grabs if other things end up panning out.
 
Millwright

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
Could have used some A-10 support driving from Dallas down to Freeport.



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BV141

BV141

Has No Life - Lives on TB
AlfaMan said:
I remember seeing something in a report off DTIC.mil regarding interstate national system and launching bombers off it, but don't have it in my files.
Wanting to say some stretches of the US interstate were heavier built during construction. The interstate system was considered complete by 1974. Those stretches handling bomber weights were mostly completed by 1970; basically it involved just digging out and putting more concrete in those stretches of road. And if I remember correctly those portions of the interstate system that was concrete, rather than asphalt were the ones to be used for heavier weight aircraft. I don't remember seeing specific highways listed as usable as alert runways, but consider the ones done in concrete and maintained regularly those runways.
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Back then a 'bomber' included the FB-111.
As you acknowledged, the B-1B, B-52H, B-2 and B-21 are all in much greater weight class.
 
AlfaMan

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
BV141 said:
Back then a 'bomber' included the FB-111.
As you acknowledged, the B-1B, B-52H, B-2 and B-21 are all in much greater weight class.
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At the time the roads were built; the B-47 and B-52 were the heavies. The B-52 has a max takeoff weight of around 450,000 pounds (which is why the original J-57 engines all had water injection and JATO bottle provisions.) The B-47 was max takeoff weight around 225,000 pounds. With the J-47s and their forever spool up time; JATO bottles were pretty much always used for takeoffs.
Those roads weren't just for bombers; those makeshift airfields on the highway needed fuel for the returned bombers, weapons for reloading and ground servicing equipment (like a LOX cart, generator trailers etc. Both bombers could be cartridge started; but the smoke generated from a start like that could be seen 40 miles away. Stealth starts they ain't......
So, transport aircraft had to be considered landing on these fields. A c-133 weighted 286,000 pounds all up, a C-124 is around 195,000 pounds (and C-124's were more numerous at the time the roads were being built).
 
AlfaMan

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Millwright said:
Could have used some A-10 support driving from Dallas down to Freeport.



64bb46ff399cc8963e021f85316d5985.jpg
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It looks like he's putting hi test into the plane's oil tank........The Danish F-16s were A models, block 10 or 15 models. The F-100 engine had the oil tank mounted at the front on the right side, tucked in around the first 6 stages of turbine blades.
 
Ractivist

Ractivist

Pride comes before the fall.....Pride month ended.
On a similar mindset, have you noticed the increased use of cable fencing on many stretches, often around the larger cities. It makes it almost impossible for anyone to cut across and go back from where they came. No U Turns. I noticed a lot of this ten or more years ago....I recognize it has some safety value, but it also has a lot of control value.

I was told by an Illinois State Trooper many years ago, that if something big happens, they will commandeer Semi rigs and block all the off ramps of the interstates...once on, you are exiting the city and there's no turning back or getting off. He was talking about the Chicago area, not sure how far out this would go....likely a long way.
 
V

vestige

Deceased
Ractivist said:
On a similar mindset, have you noticed the increased use of cable fencing on many stretches, often around the larger cities. It makes it almost impossible for anyone to cut across and go back from where they came. No U Turns. I noticed a lot of this ten or more years ago....I recognize it has some safety value, but it also has a lot of control value.

I was told by an Illinois State Trooper many years ago, that if something big happens, they will commandeer Semi rigs and block all the off ramps of the interstates...once on, you are exiting the city and there's no turning back or getting off. He was talking about the Chicago area, not sure how far out this would go....likely a long way.
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It would be nice if they also blocked the on ramps.
 
O

Old Gray Mare

TB Fanatic
Doc1 said:
Someone's been dusting off old war plans. Our Interstate highway system was built - in part - to allow .mil aircraft to operate across the country.

Best
Doc
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Those plans may have been shelved because after the war municipal and private airfields sprang up like mushrooms after the rain. Now many of them only exist in memory, a few faded photographs or a small monument or historical plaque in front of a strip mall. Back then plans to use the interstates as runways may not have had the same priority as during the war or now.

Warthogs and F22's aren't b29's or P51's. They weren't designed with this in mind. Would potential FOD (Foreign Object Damage) from debris on roadways be an issue for the newer aircraft?
 
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Millwright

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
Ractivist said:
On a similar mindset, have you noticed the increased use of cable fencing on many stretches, often around the larger cities. It makes it almost impossible for anyone to cut across and go back from where they came. No U Turns. I noticed a lot of this ten or more years ago....I recognize it has some safety value, but it also has a lot of control value.
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J

Jeep

Veteran Member
IIRC around 20 (?) years ago a lot of smaller municipal airports were expanded including runways to accommodate larger planes including the big bombers and cargo planes. The construction was paid for by the DOD. The small airport where wife's family is from was one and even now when we go visit, I see the big cargo planes doing touch and go's there.
 
mzkitty

mzkitty

I give up.
AlfaMan said:
I remember seeing something in a report off DTIC.mil regarding interstate national system and launching bombers off it, but don't have it in my files.
Wanting to say some stretches of the US interstate were heavier built during construction. The interstate system was considered complete by 1974. Those stretches handling bomber weights were mostly completed by 1970; basically it involved just digging out and putting more concrete in those stretches of road. And if I remember correctly those portions of the interstate system that was concrete, rather than asphalt were the ones to be used for heavier weight aircraft. I don't remember seeing specific highways listed as usable as alert runways, but consider the ones done in concrete and maintained regularly those runways.
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When I was young, maybe 10 or so, I remember they built a Thruway *feeder* exit (45) from Canandaigua into Rochester. It was concrete. It was a very smooth ride. I just can't picture big planes landing on it though.
 
D

Double_A

TB Fanatic
vestige said:
The interstate highway system here was conceived for this very purpose along with other military use and commerce.

I worked for Kentucky DOT for 7 years and was involved in some interstate work related to .mil potential usage.

This is the first time in my life I have known of use of interstate highways for this purpose in the U.S. Planned but never practiced to my knowledge.

While overseas I saw it as common practice in France but did not observe it in other countries.

Some stretches of interstates have been "contaminated" by powerline crossings although there is likely a plane to "eliminate" those if necessary.

I just informed my wife (USAF veteran) of this thread and told her I suspect something is up.
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and using planes they've been trying to get rid of.

This is for show
 
Meemur

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
Ractivist said:
I was told by an Illinois State Trooper many years ago, that if something big happens, they will commandeer Semi rigs and block all the off ramps of the interstates...once on, you are exiting the city and there's no turning back or getting off. He was talking about the Chicago area, not sure how far out this would go....likely a long way.
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The same could be done to the outer ring of Columbus, Ohio. It was one of the things that used to make me a little nervous. I made sure to regularly drive several of the back ways I knew in and out of the city. I see now how easily those could've been blocked off, too.
 
Sportsman

Sportsman

Veteran Member
Ractivist said:
On a similar mindset, have you noticed the increased use of cable fencing on many stretches, often around the larger cities. It makes it almost impossible for anyone to cut across and go back from where they came. No U Turns. I noticed a lot of this ten or more years ago....I recognize it has some safety value, but it also has a lot of control value.

I was told by an Illinois State Trooper many years ago, that if something big happens, they will commandeer Semi rigs and block all the off ramps of the interstates...once on, you are exiting the city and there's no turning back or getting off. He was talking about the Chicago area, not sure how far out this would go....likely a long way.
Click to expand...

I thought those were installed to shred motorcycle riders who left the pavement in a crash. At least, that was the net effect.
 
AlfaMan

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Old Gray Mare said:
Those plans may have been shelved because after the war municipal and private airfields sprang up like mushrooms after the rain. Now many of them only exist in memory, a few faded photographs or a small monument or historical plaque in front of a strip mall. Back then plans to use the interstates as runways may not have had the same priority as before the war or now.

Warthogs and F22's aren't b29's or P51's. They weren't designed with this in mind. Would potential FOD (Foreign Object Damage) from debris on roadways be an issue for the newer aircraft?
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I don't know what area your'e in, but streetsweeping of the interstates locally is a once or twice a week thing here. The A-10 I wouldn't worry about FOD, the engines are mounted up high. TF34's are pretty resilient regarding FOD anyway. The F-22 could be considered a ramp sweeper though.
 
packyderms_wife

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Knoxville's Joker said:
The issue is the heavier aircraft require insane re-enforcement for their landing. airbases that receive them have two strips one getting repaired and the active one. Unless the roadbed is built on literal bedrock.

This is going to cause serious issues with road maintenance for any low profile issues after the events are done.

But if they are getting to this point of instigating this use, they are either getting ready for fast inter country deployments, or, an invasion, or this is part of some new wargames training.

This could be a big program of snatch and grabs if other things end up panning out.
Click to expand...

And yet this was done in parts of the Midwest, more random than you could ever understand. And that’s okay. You do not need to understand, nor does our enemies need to understand. If you haven’t figured it out yet we’re at war.
 
Knoxville's Joker

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
So Britain and the US are spooked, probably about China. Or someone dusted off old war plans and realized, we had not actually tested the full extent of the emergency plans in an oh crap moment. Or, could we have indications that all of the unassimilated Islamic immigrants be up to some mass unreast type deals?
 
Illini Warrior

Illini Warrior

Illini Warrior
SurvivalRing said:
There was discussion here YEARS ago, about the design of the interstates including some use as landing strips for various .mil aircraft. This type of plan has been going on for decades outside of the US.

Anyone know anymore about this historical context?
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Germans used the Autobahns during WW2 for disguised airstrips - everybody knows Ike borrowed our interstate system from what he saw in Germany ....
 
Jeff B.

Jeff B.

Don’t let the Piss Ants get you down…
There were active discussions about using C130 bladder birds on the autobahn to support III Corps counterattacks into the Fulda Gap area in the 1980’s.

Jeff B.
 
D

Doat

Veteran Member
The spalling and cracking as well as the potholes and blown out large chunks of tire recaps should make this interesting.
 
Hfcomms

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Northern Strike 21-2 operations planned in Western Upper Peninsula

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LANSING, Mich. (WLUC) - Several Northern Strike (NS) 21-2 military training events are scheduled to take place in Michigan’s Western Upper Peninsula August 2-4, 2021.

Flying operations are expected on and above Ontonagon-Schuster Field in Ontonagon and Sawyer International Airport in Gwinn. Ground training operations are planned in the Baraga State Forest.

Ontonagon-Schuster Field will remain open to the public for people to view the military training at 35932 Airport Rd., Ontonagon, off M-64. The public can watch from around the terminal building parking lot area, up to tree line in the field across.

During the three day period, a variety of aircraft are expected to participate including fighter jets, refuelers, and helicopters.

“The Upper Peninsula has a long history of Air Force operations,” said Matthew Trumble, Alpena Combat Readiness Training Center (CRTC), NS air component program manager. “We are excited to able to use the great resources available to us in the area and appreciate all of the support from the surrounding communities.”

The events are one aspect of the Michigan National Guard’s NS 21-2 exercise. The exercise is one of the Department of Defense’s largest reserve component readiness exercises. It is scheduled to take place across Northern Michigan July 31 to August 14.

Approximately 5,100 participants from various states and countries will converge at the National All-Domain Warfighting Center (NADWC) for training. The NADWC encompasses the Camp Grayling Maneuver Training Center and the Alpena CRTC.
www.uppermichiganssource.com

Northern Strike 21-2 operations planned in Western Upper Peninsula

The military training events will take place on and above Ontonagon-Schuster Field in Ontonagon and Sawyer International Airport in Gwinn
www.uppermichiganssource.com www.uppermichiganssource.com
 
Henry Bowman

Henry Bowman

Veteran Member
Illini Warrior said:
doubt very much they can blackmail enough USAF to fly many missions >>> they are depending on armed drones guided by gamesters munching on Toaster Pop-Ups - already a FED drone airforce operated outside the USAF ...
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Not sure how much "Blackmailing" it would take considering the age of most pilots .

How much was needed to kill and burn the bonus army?

How much was needed at Kent State?

How much was needed in DC to protect it from "Domestic Terrorists" ( basically a Photo op)

But yes , I believe drones will be used to a far greater degree, you are very right in that.
 
S

SurfaceTension

Veteran Member
I manage the designs of many Interstate projects in my state. I can assure you that aircraft loading or clearances are not part of our design criteria. Our design requirements are predominately guided by:
  • AASHTO's A Policy on Geometric Design of Highways and Streets (aka "The Green Book")
  • AASHTO's A Policy on Design Standards - Interstate System
  • The state Road Design Manual (tighter standards in many areas than the above)
I'd be glad to cite any design spec you want, but there is absolutely nothing in our designs that address aircraft requirements. Jeezecrise we have a hard enough time budgeting projects to accomodate trucks.
 
greysage

greysage

On The Level
A lot easier to round up and fly Americans off to gulag to be disappeared forever from the highway. No airport witnesses and it'll reduce retaliation against airports and airlines. That way the part of the rest of America doesn't really know what's happening and they can still fly for business 'n' stuff.
 
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