…… Dog wrangling question/Update #63

helen

helen

Panic Sex Lady
C-19 happened. People lost jobs well before the government started handing out money. Some people down on their luck were sitting by the side of the road with puppies not even weaned. They could not feed the momma dog but had found a home for her. She was registered heeler. Daddy dog was unknown.

I took the last little one. He was clean and obviously used to being cuddled.

He's over a year old. He stopped cuddling as soon as he could run. He runs like a greyhound, jumps like deer, and he has a protective streak. Chases cars if he gets near the highway, but never goes without me. Would probably kill chickens or other livestock, but he hasn't had a chance. He may weigh 40 pounds, solid lean muscle. His neck is bigger than his skull, and I can't keep a collar on him.

He is so hyperactive that I can't really pet him. He hits me a lot with his feet as he dances around, but he ducks if I try to touch him. He loves the truck. He never gets out of sight unless he's chasing a deer. He circles around me, keeping watch.

Turns out his daddy is probably pit bull. I should have had him neutered when he was smaller, but the vet was hard to access and I lost my second job. Time went by.

He is penned up unless he's out with me to avoid contact with rabid animals and chasing cars. He needs rabies shot and neutered. His neck is bigger than his head. How do I get a muzzle on him, and how can I wrangle him out of the truck at the vet's office? He will bite strangers, I think.
 
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K

KFhunter

Veteran Member
First I'd get a harness and check cord. I really like the flat ones that don't tangle and get knotted up.

He'll drag that check cord everywhere, step on it as he goes by.

I love this one:
www.gundogsupply.com

30' x 1/2" TufFlex Check Cord

30' x 1/2" TufFlex Check Cord. Allows you to keep control of your dog at longer distances.$39.99 (Save $3.00) Check cords allow you to keep control of your dog at longer distances. This K9 Komfort TufFlex check cord won't knot or get tangled in brush, and is virtually indestructible and...
www.gundogsupply.com www.gundogsupply.com

Cut back to desired length, but remember you can't make it longer if cut too short.


Then I'd start ecollar training.

Use all tools at your disposal from clicker training to ecollar training.
 
Cyclonemom

Cyclonemom

Veteran Member
helen said:
C-19 happened. People lost jobs well before the government started handing out money. Some people down on their luck were sitting by the side of the road with puppies not even weaned. They could not feed the momma dog but had found a home for her. She was registered heeler. Daddy dog was unknown.

I took the last little one. He was clean and obviously used to being cuddled.

He's over a year old. He stopped cuddling as soon as he could run. He runs like a greyhound, jumps like deer, and he has a protective streak. Chases cars if he gets near the highway, but never goes without me. Would probably kill chickens or other livestock, but he hasn't had a chance. He may weigh 40 pounds, solid lean muscle. His neck is bigger than his skull, and I can't keep a collar on him.

He is so hyperactive that I can't really pet him. He hits me a lot with his feet as he dances around, but he ducks if I try to touch him. He loves the truck. He never gets out of sight unless he's chasing a deer. He circles around me, keeping watch.

Turns out his daddy is probably pit bull. I should have had him neutered when he was smaller, but the vet was hard to access and I lost my second job. Time went by.

He is penned up unless he's out with me to avoid contact with rabid animals and chasing cars. He needs rabies shot and neutered. His neck is bigger than his head. How do I get a muzzle on him, and how can I wrangle him out of the truck at the vet's office? He will bite strangers, I think.
Click to expand...
Depending on your vet, some will blur the line for legal prescribing and get you a script for a sedative to give prior to coming in.

We will not, as there are a lot of drug seeking humans in this area trying to circumvent the system by getting meds for their pets. So we follow the letter of the law.

It is worth a try.
 
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Texican

Texican

Live Free & Die Free.... God Freedom Country....
A harness rig that goes behind and in front of the front legs and over the back and under the belly should work.

You are his alpha female and he will do everything he can to protect you and show you affection.

If you don't have a dog whistle, please acquire one and use it every time your heller does what he shouldn't do and call out to him. If he ignores you, do it until he comes. He will learn to come to you and praise and pet him when he does. We use a dog whistle with our dogs and it does work.

When he tries to jump up on you (which is a sign of affection by him), swat his nose and tell him no and sit. When he sits or stays down, pet him and tell him good boy.

Depending on where you live, rabies vaccine can be purchased at pharmacies and you can vac your pets.

Our pets love us more than we can imagine just like our God.

Good luck.
 
helen

helen

Panic Sex Lady
I've known my vet nearly 40 years and never asked for a favor before. I'll ask when I take the others in.

But... you know, I'm not his goddess. The GSD is! Maybe he'll ride in with her! I just need to get two hands on him, and he is nearly feral. I'll try the sedative route first, if I can get it.
 
juco

juco

Veteran Member
Helen, if you can’t get vet prescribed sedatives Benadryl may be an option.
My dd had a heeled mix that would escape every so often. He would always go back home ( after wreaking havoc In the neighborhood) but wouldn’t let them get hands on him to confine him again.

So she stuffed Benadryl tablets into raw hotdogs and tossed them to him. I asked her how many tablets and she said “ as many as it took” for him to go to sleep.
 
helen

helen

Panic Sex Lady
juco said:
Helen, if you can’t get vet prescribed sedatives Benadryl may be an option.
My dd had a heeled mix that would escape every so often. He would always go back home ( after wreaking havoc In the neighborhood) but wouldn’t let them get hands on him to confine him again.

So she stuffed Benadryl tablets into raw hotdogs and tossed them to him. I asked her how many tablets and she said “ as many as it took” for him to go to sleep.
Click to expand...
I can do that! I bet he only needs one. 40 pounds, tops. I didn't think of that.
 
F

FireDance

TB Fanatic
helen said:
I can do that! I bet he only needs one. 40 pounds, tops. I didn't think of that.
Click to expand...
Um. I would hit him with two. A dog can have 8x the Benadryl we can. He will be excited. Heck I might do 3. Haha.

I would call my vet and get a sedative if it’s not a billion miles away. We have one for a dog with a fear of storms that works in 15 minutes. I don’t know the name, but I would let my vet guide me and send someone out to help you get him out of the car also. That way you have an extra hand and they can muzzle him before you go in. If the sedative works well enough they can carry him in for you. Just call the vet and see what they say.

Meanwhile, find a trainer for Satan.
 
S

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
FireDance said:
Um. I would hit him with two. A dog can have 8x the Benadryl we can. He will be excited. Heck I might do 3. Haha.

I would call my vet and get a sedative if it’s not a billion miles away. We have one for a dog with a fear of storms that works in 15 minutes. I don’t know the name, but I would let my vet guide me and send someone out to help you get him out of the car also. That way you have an extra hand and they can muzzle him before you go in. If the sedative works well enough they can carry him in for you. Just call the vet and see what they say.

Meanwhile, find a trainer for Satan.
Click to expand...
Yep, at least 2...

Summerthyme
 
Blue 5

Blue 5

Veteran Member
+1 on the Benadryl. Our bulldog can be a neurotic handful at times, and our vet basically prescribed the stuff as an easy and safe way to help him to calm down. Give your pup a couple and once he's calm get a harness on him. Don't ever take it off unless it's bath time. Many bulldog owners do this; their dogs don't mind. It allows you to get hold of them when you need to as well as giving you a leash attachment point.
 
Ping Jockey

Ping Jockey

Inactive
helen said:
C-19 happened. People lost jobs well before the government started handing out money. Some people down on their luck were sitting by the side of the road with puppies not even weaned. They could not feed the momma dog but had found a home for her. She was registered heeler. Daddy dog was unknown.

I took the last little one. He was clean and obviously used to being cuddled.

He's over a year old. He stopped cuddling as soon as he could run. He runs like a greyhound, jumps like deer, and he has a protective streak. Chases cars if he gets near the highway, but never goes without me. Would probably kill chickens or other livestock, but he hasn't had a chance. He may weigh 40 pounds, solid lean muscle. His neck is bigger than his skull, and I can't keep a collar on him.

He is so hyperactive that I can't really pet him. He hits me a lot with his feet as he dances around, but he ducks if I try to touch him. He loves the truck. He never gets out of sight unless he's chasing a deer. He circles around me, keeping watch.

Turns out his daddy is probably pit bull. I should have had him neutered when he was smaller, but the vet was hard to access and I lost my second job. Time went by.

He is penned up unless he's out with me to avoid contact with rabid animals and chasing cars. He needs rabies shot and neutered. His neck is bigger than his head. How do I get a muzzle on him, and how can I wrangle him out of the truck at the vet's office? He will bite strangers, I think.
Click to expand...
Get a pinch collar for the dog. It looks like something out of a medieval torture chamber but trust me, it works wonders.

They come in different sizes and lengths. You’ll want to adjust it to fit loose around the dog’s neck, high up on the neck.

The tines on the pinch collar are there to replicate the action of a mother dog when she reprimands a pup. It is not a choke collar as once it is fitted properly and you use the proper ring to attach your lead it will only pull up so much.

Once you’ve fitted it properly you’ll want to walk the dog on lead. If he/she gets out of line or doesn’t pay attention snap the lead and yell, “NO” as loud as you can. It will definitely get their attention. You can find YouTube videos on how to properly use them.
 
juco

juco

Veteran Member
FireDance said:
Um. I would hit him with two. A dog can have 8x the Benadryl we can. He will be excited. Heck I might do 3. Haha.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, at least 3 and possibly 4. I’m saying this based on a 16 pound JRT we had that the vet prescribed 2 Benadryl for seasonal allergies. Two barely phased her.
 
AlfaMan

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Sorry to hear the dog is borderline incorrigable. He sounds like TBear when he gets up in the morning.

Something to calm him down? If you can get it, Tramadol is prescribed to dogs; Astor got them when he had a leg issue way back. He was only 12 pounds so the vet said to give him a quarter of a 10mg tablet. This would put him in lala land for at least 8 hours, so he wouldn't be on the leg. Perhaps that might calm him down enough to get him to the vet.

With our TBear, he's in his puppy terrible twos. Rather than smacking him or being physical with him when he does something wrong; I found a novel way of disciplining him. You know those cans of compressed air you use to clean dust out of your computer? That's what I use.
When he's jumping on me, I shoot a shot of the compressed air off to the side (never on him) and say NO! in a strong voice. He immediately stops the bad behavior. When he attacks my feet, another pssst out of the can and a big NO! He sits down and stops. If you even make the sound of the can being sprayed, he backs down. It's unorthodox but it actually works, and works well. And it's not a choke collar, or smacking his butt or otherwise being violent against him.
 
Freeholder

Freeholder

This too shall pass.
helen said:
C-19 happened. People lost jobs well before the government started handing out money. Some people down on their luck were sitting by the side of the road with puppies not even weaned. They could not feed the momma dog but had found a home for her. She was registered heeler. Daddy dog was unknown.

I took the last little one. He was clean and obviously used to being cuddled.

He's over a year old. He stopped cuddling as soon as he could run. He runs like a greyhound, jumps like deer, and he has a protective streak. Chases cars if he gets near the highway, but never goes without me. Would probably kill chickens or other livestock, but he hasn't had a chance. He may weigh 40 pounds, solid lean muscle. His neck is bigger than his skull, and I can't keep a collar on him.

He is so hyperactive that I can't really pet him. He hits me a lot with his feet as he dances around, but he ducks if I try to touch him. He loves the truck. He never gets out of sight unless he's chasing a deer. He circles around me, keeping watch.

Turns out his daddy is probably pit bull. I should have had him neutered when he was smaller, but the vet was hard to access and I lost my second job. Time went by.

He is penned up unless he's out with me to avoid contact with rabid animals and chasing cars. He needs rabies shot and neutered. His neck is bigger than his head. How do I get a muzzle on him, and how can I wrangle him out of the truck at the vet's office? He will bite strangers, I think.
Click to expand...

I've had a pit mix with neck thicker than his head. You need a harness for him. But I will say that if you really believe he will bite strangers, seriously consider having him put down BEFORE that happens. Heelers tend to be very protective and can be aggressive with strangers; mixing that with pit is not a good thing.

Kathleen

ETA: Now that I've read everything, I will strongly suggest either getting him in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing and has time to train him, or put him down before he does some serious damage.
 
D

Displaced hillbilly

Veteran Member
If you can get a harness on him, possibly find a way to attach the collar to the harness. I have a dog (Karelian bear dog) who has been able to back out of three different harnesses. I never thought to attach collar to harness until this last time. If you only have the leash attached to the harness and he backs out he could take off. We are having fits with our dog, but that’sa whole other thread.
 
Oscar Wilde

Oscar Wilde

Membership Revoked
KFhunter said:
First I'd get a harness and check cord.
Click to expand...

Coupla things. Ensure that the harness fits snug around his neck / shoulders or he'll
get it in his mouth and chew through it ... you wouldn't think so but trust me.
2, make sure the harness has straps that loop to the rear under his belly and over
his hind quarters or he'll discover quickly how to easily back out of the harness,
yes, he will.

It was necessary to give one of my pups Benadryl, 1 per five pounds of pup.

O.W.
 
W

Walkin' Away

Senior Member
My Dear Helen,
I am able to appreciate your dilemma.

Having raised and rescued many Rottweilers...some of which were pretty darned hyper and strong willed (aggressive and stubborn) I learned from a dear friend who raised BullMastiffs about Cesar Milan (The Dog Whisperer).

I began studying his ways and learned greatly from his teachings. According to his teachings, the most important thing in the dog/owner/handler relationship is the basic understanding that you and the dog must KNOW that YOU are the pack leader. That basic fundamental principle will help the dog to understand that he can trust you and that the hyper-ness and other undesired behaviors that he shows are usually caused by his anxiety of having to be the pack leader (in his canine mind) by correcting this and establishing trust, these behaviors can be resolved. You must be firm and confident in dealing with him, or he will continue to run you over!

I have raised all my Rotts using his training guidelines and have spent hours watching his training videos. I highly recommend them and if you put them into practice, You will have a much better behaved pup and you will love him even more.

I am sure that there are other members here who know about The Dog Whisperer and can vouch for his training guidelines. If there is anything that I can do to help you, please let me know.

Have faith in yourself and have faith in your dog. He was sent to you for a special purpose. One more thing....Remember that DOG spelled backwards...is GOD :rdog:

With Much Love to You,
Walkin' away
 
pauldingbabe

pauldingbabe

The Great Cat
juco said:
Oh yes, at least 3 and possibly 4. I’m saying this based on a 16 pound JRT we had that the vet prescribed 2 Benadryl for seasonal allergies. Two barely phased her.
Click to expand...


Not a whole lot phases a JRT! Amazing animals, I would have another in a second.

I give mt GP 4 a day at 120# ( he was the runt, lol) for his itches.

Helen, my love, you need to dom that dog. It isn't always pleasant, but it's for both of your mental and emotional stability.

Now. you know what to do.

:bg:
 
S

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Freeholder said:
I've had a pit mix with neck thicker than his head. You need a harness for him. But I will say that if you really believe he will bite strangers, seriously consider having him put down BEFORE that happens. Heelers tend to be very protective and can be aggressive with strangers; mixing that with pit is not a good thing.

Kathleen

ETA: Now that I've read everything, I will strongly suggest either getting him in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing and has time to train him, or put him down before he does some serious damage.
Click to expand...
I do agree with this, reluctantly. This entire situation sounds like a potential disaster. Heelers have intense prey drive (not very "inhibited", either!) and energy. They are actually way too aggressive as a rule to use on dairy cows, much less sheep. They also are *very* high energy- bred to run 50 or more miles in a day, herding, and then do it all over again the next day. They make lousy pets unless someone has the time and inclination to give them the exercise they need...

Summerthyme
 
kyrsyan

kyrsyan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
AlfaMan said:
Sorry to hear the dog is borderline incorrigable. He sounds like TBear when he gets up in the morning.

Something to calm him down? If you can get it, Tramadol is prescribed to dogs; Astor got them when he had a leg issue way back. He was only 12 pounds so the vet said to give him a quarter of a 10mg tablet. This would put him in lala land for at least 8 hours, so he wouldn't be on the leg. Perhaps that might calm him down enough to get him to the vet.

With our TBear, he's in his puppy terrible twos. Rather than smacking him or being physical with him when he does something wrong; I found a novel way of disciplining him. You know those cans of compressed air you use to clean dust out of your computer? That's what I use.
When he's jumping on me, I shoot a shot of the compressed air off to the side (never on him) and say NO! in a strong voice. He immediately stops the bad behavior. When he attacks my feet, another pssst out of the can and a big NO! He sits down and stops. If you even make the sound of the can being sprayed, he backs down. It's unorthodox but it actually works, and works well. And it's not a choke collar, or smacking his butt or otherwise being violent against him.
Click to expand...
My parents do that with their cats. Only have to do it once most of the time. Quickest training tool I've ever seen.
 
Freeholder

Freeholder

This too shall pass.
summerthyme said:
I do agree with this, reluctantly. This entire situation sounds like a potential disaster. Heelers have intense prey drive (not very "inhibited", either!) and energy. They are actually way too aggressive as a rule to use on dairy cows, much less sheep. They also are *very* high energy- bred to run 50 or more miles in a day, herding, and then do it all over again the next day. They make lousy pets unless someone has the time and inclination to give them the exercise they need...

Summerthyme
Click to expand...

I've known a few Heelers that were great dogs -- really impressed me. BUT without exception they literally were glued to their owner's side pretty much 24/7. We had a neighbor, many years ago, who trained animals for the movies -- he was training a young Brahma bull for use in movies when we knew him. He got two Heeler pups, one was a baby, the other had lived in a kennel with little human contact for the first four months of it's life. He ended up having to put that one down, even with all of his excellent training skills. It was untrainable and dangerous, even though it was still pretty young when he got it. Handled properly, they can be wonderful dogs, though they strongly tend to be one-person dogs. But if they aren't handled well from early puppy-hood, it's hard to salvage them.

Kathleen
 
S

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Freeholder said:
I've known a few Heelers that were great dogs -- really impressed me. BUT without exception they literally were glued to their owner's side pretty much 24/7. We had a neighbor, many years ago, who trained animals for the movies -- he was training a young Brahma bull for use in movies when we knew him. He got two Heeler pups, one was a baby, the other had lived in a kennel with little human contact for the first four months of it's life. He ended up having to put that one down, even with all of his excellent training skills. It was untrainable and dangerous, even though it was still pretty young when he got it. Handled properly, they can be wonderful dogs, though they strongly tend to be one-person dogs. But if they aren't handled well from early puppy-hood, it's hard to salvage them.

Kathleen
Click to expand...
Yep. We had a good friend who was a dairy farmer. He got a Blue Heeler pup, and had huge problems. He ended up tyi his him pretty much 24/7 (dumb, but the dog was a terror). He was tied too close to several valuable registered Holstein heifer calves... when friend came home, the dog had chewed two of them up so badly they had to be shot.

They absolutely aren't dogs that can be ignored.

Summerthyme
 
phloydius

phloydius

Veteran Member
helen said:
I can do that! I bet he only needs one. 40 pounds, tops. I didn't think of that.
Click to expand...

My dog (very serious allergy issues) is about 80lb. The vet told me to give him 3x 25mg pills (3 times a day). That is 9 pills in a day. He also takes other allergy pills. They make him a little drowsy, but he is still super full of energy most of the time. I am not saying that this is the right dose for your dog, I am only saying that it is what my vet has me give my dog.
 
C

cowboy

Veteran Member
That is one Bad A$$ dog if you can control him.

I'm not sure about Walkin' Aways guy but yes utube some training vid's that teaches in a passive yet dog think kind of way. Horse training might show different perspectives that crosses over to people as well once you get onto a few tips.

He will be all of what ST said and requires work and freedom to wear down before you can teach him anything.
 
Dennis Olson

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
Helen is of an age where I honestly don’t know if she has the physical strength necessary to train this dog. I have to say that given its behavior, if I owned it I wouldn’t even try.
 
C

cowboy

Veteran Member
Actually she only needs to teach one command.
And that is off while trying to drag 80# or so of Tazmainian Devil.
 
Seeker22

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
summerthyme said:
I do agree with this, reluctantly. This entire situation sounds like a potential disaster. Heelers have intense prey drive (not very "inhibited", either!) and energy. They are actually way too aggressive as a rule to use on dairy cows, much less sheep. They also are *very* high energy- bred to run 50 or more miles in a day, herding, and then do it all over again the next day. They make lousy pets unless someone has the time and inclination to give them the exercise they need...

Summerthyme
Click to expand...

I also agree. The intense prey drive of a Heeler combined with the split second on switch of the Pit to hold on (2,000 pounds to the square inch in those jaws) until whatever is good and dead- is a bad idea. Mated with a Lab, or something more placid, Pits are great dogs. Unfortunately at this point, you have to play the hand you are dealt. You need an experienced trainer ASAP. Or make a hard decision.

Praying for best outcome for all concerned.
 
F

FireDance

TB Fanatic
I have used a pinch collar on two of my dogs while training. Neither needed it temperament wise. BUT when I go to the vet or something I use it. MUST be high on the neck and ATTACHED TO THE OTHER COLLAR or whatever you are using as they tend to come off. The first dog I used it on was my Standard Schnauzer because the training class I went to required it. She’d see that thing and go nuts (happy) because she knew we were going to training.

I have also used it on my lab/Sharpei mix to go to the vet so my arm isn’t pulled off. Both of these dogs were “soft” and really didn’t need it, BUT I did have more control that way. Look them up on YouTube to see how to use. It’s not hard, but there are rules.

This dog scares me. You need help there and back no matter what you do sedative-wise. Sometimes the sedative will make them, well weird and more aggressive. I would call the vet before doing ANYTHING. You could probably Benadryl him out, but I would take NO chances.
 
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