CORP/BIZ Congress considering plan that targets women who sell products online

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
When I sold on ebay, I didn't have to have a business license.
Of course, I didn't deal in high volume either. (Maybe 5-10 sales a month)

Making a profit on ebay is hard enough, but with this garbage, it would be even harder.

I understand some of the bill would be legit, to weed out the scammers, but requiring business licenses is the real reason here.

This is just another way to milk more hard earned money(labor) from anyone who tries to make a side living.


At least I'll be able to find decent stuff in Goodwill again

Up to now the Ebay folks always beat me to it--they jump in and clean house as soon as a new shipment comes in and I can't find any of the nice glassware, dishware, or antique knick-knacks I used to be able to find there
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
Let's give this a RATIONAL, not entirely one sided response to the problems caused by some people trying to ANONYMOUSLY, frequently, dishonestly and irresponsibly, unaccountably, do business online.

How about putting forward reasonable, alternate solutions to the minimizing the harm that dishonest or otherwise irresponsible people inflict on the trusting or unwise buyers they lure.

So what happens when babies choke on the tiny buttons,or decorative doo-dadds some ignorant person sewed onto the baby clothes they sell? Babies wearing sweat shirts with hoodies having a string that could EASILY hang them or choke them to death. So what do you say? Sorry?

People buying stuff that will NEVER come because it was never sent. Sellers making a few grand then changing their name and reopening under another name for a few more thousand next week.

Anonymous sellers, and sellers not revealing an actual meat world address/PHONE NUMBER ARE actually wanting to hide from unhappy customers and not be legally liable for business they conduct, ARE IN FACT IRRESPONSIBLE, because that is the way they WANT IT!

Got Any proposals to reign in the thieves without disrupting HONEST people just trying to supplement their income?
 

rob0126

Veteran Member
At least I'll be able to find decent stuff in Goodwill again

Up to now the Ebay folks always beat me to it--they jump in and clean house as soon as a new shipment comes in and I can't find any of the nice glassware, dishware, or antique knick-knacks I used to be able to find there

I didnt deal in the goodwill stuff.

I sold used car parts.

I had to go source those parts and then remove them successfully from the vehicle.

Then determine if they were sellable, and clean them up for resell.

It was a lot more involved than you think.

I enjoyed it but the profit margin made it more like a hobby.

I did deal in books on amazon too but amazon soaked up all the profits.

Plus some people enjoyed renting my books from time to time.
 

ktrapper

Veteran Member
ALL FOODS should have well displayed identification of COUNTRY OF ORIGIN, Manufacture, were Processed, were Packaged etc., etc., if different from origin. That way I have a choice to support AMERICAN producers vice some foreign source. If I don't want to consume ANYTHING that has anything to do with CHINA or any other Communist country or enemy of our nation I should have that choice.

We don't have that choice now, and considering that American consumers could be facing American raised chicken & pork will be PROCESSED IN CHINA and then shipped back for Americans to consume?!?! American trees are being PROCESSED IN CHINA into lumber and then shipped back to the U.S. NO - NO - NO - NO!!
I agree with your sentiment.

Buy from Azure Standard. All US grown foods. Mostly Organic.

Buy local. Local Sawmills, local ranchers for beef and pork, raise your own chickens and rabbits, and garden, buy at the farmers markets in the summer, can and freeze for the winter, hunt and fish.
If a side of beef is too much at once go in with someone and split it. Split bulk buys with a friend.
 
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WildDaisy

God has a plan, Trust it!
There goes online sales for the Tupperware and Avon ladies. Back to the catalog and home parties. Is that what the government really wants to do - get more people gathering?

I used to do well with my Avon sales. Then Covid happened and catalog and online only now.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I started an Etsy store. I got all the legal things done. I found out you need tags on things, clothing, aprons, and anything for children. You have to have compliant fabric. You cannot make anything with flannel for children to wear unless the fabric went through flammable testing. A bib is considered clothing, so a bib can have cotton front, but not flannel. You can put flannel in the middle but not the back. The back cannot have flannel or terry cloth unless tested, so you have to find fabric that has been tested. Snaps, buttons, anything exposed a child could touch that might have lead has to be compliant. Elastic is covered so does not have to be tested, but open, it does and zippers. I see a lot of people selling things that might not be compliant. You have to make certificates of compliance for each item. You have to keep track of where you bought the fabric or other supplies. Toys and things like that, you have choking things have to be compliant. I went to a craft fair locally and asked people about all this. Most looked at me like I was nuts. They had their vendors license and knew about state tax, but nothing about this compliant thing. Most said they do not make children's clothing because of all the rules, but then had bibs and did not know they were considered children's clothing. I asked one lady about labels and she said people do not want labels on homemade things. You can go to Walmart and get things with labels. She said she bought the apron she had on from another vendor and there was not any label, so all these kinds of sellers will be shocked and hurt by this. A lot of those laws started in 2009. Another thing women should stand up and fight. They will do anything to make us slaves and keep us so busy with laws and paperwork.
Versions of this were the topic of one of the most powerful articles I ever read about "welfare recipients" mostly Mothers who tried time and again to "better themselves" by starting small inner-city businesses like home sewing, cookie backing, hairdressing, or babysitting.

Every time they would be shut down by their City or County because such businesses require a minimum of 10,000 dollars in licenses and set up costs (this was around 1990).

Some ladies were so determined to work their way off welfare that they started a new business that was shut down four or five times until the family court judges would threaten to take their kids away if there was one more case of "illegal" activity on their part.

And we wonder 30 years on not only why so many families are now multi-generational welfare recipients but that they are now going after home crafters who bring in a modest (but important) amount of family income on sites like Estey.

I used to average a couple of thousand a year weaving trim for re-enactors back when there were only three of us I know of in the world doing it. My last gig was for a movie at which point my shoulder became very unhappy and thankfully a lot of new people were learning the skill and sell online.

This totally seems like part of the "program" to first shut down all small businesses with COVID (or as many as they can) and now they are going after the online independent producers making things like tablet weaving cards, children's hand-knit sweaters, and other craftspeople.

Don't forget Farfal had a friend during the collapse in Argentina that fed his family making and selling hand-forged knives in his backyard that were sold all over the word to reenactors and collectors.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Let's give this a RATIONAL, not entirely one sided response to the problems caused by some people trying to ANONYMOUSLY, frequently, dishonestly and irresponsibly, unaccountably, do business online.

How about putting forward reasonable, alternate solutions to the minimizing the harm that dishonest or otherwise irresponsible people inflict on the trusting or unwise buyers they lure.

So what happens when babies choke on the tiny buttons,or decorative doo-dadds some ignorant person sewed onto the baby clothes they sell? Babies wearing sweat shirts with hoodies having a string that could EASILY hang them or choke them to death. So what do you say? Sorry?

People buying stuff that will NEVER come because it was never sent. Sellers making a few grand then changing their name and reopening under another name for a few more thousand next week.

Anonymous sellers, and sellers not revealing an actual meat world address/PHONE NUMBER ARE actually wanting to hide from unhappy customers and not be legally liable for business they conduct, ARE IN FACT IRRESPONSIBLE, because that is the way they WANT IT!

Got Any proposals to reign in the thieves without disrupting HONEST people just trying to supplement their income?
How about if the PARENTS learn what they shouldn't use around their precious kids, and we let the current rating systems by disgruntled buyers do the rest. If you use a credit card to transact your businesss, you can pull the payment if you don't get your purchase.

GOVERNMENT LICENSING IS NOT THE ANSWER!

Summerthyme (what's next? Mandatory home inspections to see if the sewing area is "pet free"? Bacterial swabs of the packing areas? *Forced vaccination of anyone "selling to the public*?!)
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
So, they are going after Independent Contractors and any other small business owner they can find.

They've been doing this for decades as regs have gotten tighter and tighter. However, with the tech that is being used IC's are easier to track and control. Little kid lemonade stand? Need a government issued business license. Food truck? Need a government issued health certificate. Gonna have a yard sale or estate sale? Need to collect sales tax and remit to the government. Want to babysit kids? Need a government issued professional license and insurance.

Mow lawns?
Clean houses?
Have a car wash fund raiser?
Have a bake sale?
Be a general handyman?
Be a shade tree mechanic?

All of the above, and more, have been under attack for a long time now.
 

West

Senior
They've been doing this for decades as regs have gotten tighter and tighter. However, with the tech that is being used IC's are easier to track and control. Little kid lemonade stand? Need a government issued business license. Food truck? Need a government issued health certificate. Gonna have a yard sale or estate sale? Need to collect sales tax and remit to the government. Want to babysit kids? Need a government issued professional license and insurance.

Mow lawns?
Clean houses?
Have a car wash fund raiser?
Have a bake sale?
Be a general handyman?
Be a shade tree mechanic?

All of the above, and more, have been under attack for a long time now.

Punishment for being a independent individual.

It's not what our current government systems want, so they fine and control the individuals to the best of their abilities. And discourage such practices.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Well then.

I want to know every aspect of where my food, medicine, everything made available to me in the same way as in the op.

As far as food goes there are are only 2 stores where you can ask for and get all of the info required as stated above. Whole Foods and Lidl. Both know from conception to table with meat, with veggies they can tell you where, how, and when.

Let's hold the same standard across the board, not just to the little guy.

Two words: black market
Two more words: "The Accountant"

Do you do your books on the kitchen table?

Yes.

So then it's your office. How big would you say your kitchen is?

You can deduct 60% of your electricity bill for a home office.

You have a refund coming.

Just saying I highly recommend ZZZ Accounting. It's in a strip mall, in between a nail salon, and cleaners.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
If times get hard enough, this intensive over-regulation which is currently only made possible by technologies (often the same ones used to facilitate selling) will backfire.

Those African-American Mommas of 30 years ago risking everything to try to work to feed their families and get out of government control are just the tip of the iceberg.

Another study I read at the same time (I worked at AFDC, we saw this stuff) was about how the "good news" was that almost everyone, especially the Mothers in the welfare/inner-city communities was actually working. The "bad news" was it was all technically illegal and while helpful the work wasn't consistent enough to make a living at, except for the more formal sorts of businesses shut down by Cities and Counties in the previous article.

The most common forms of "work" were under the table babysitting exchanges, people with cars taking small payments for taking neighbors shopping, home sewing (often wedding dresses), preparing meals for others outside the family (usually in trade for something else), small appliance repairs and of course hairdressing.

Much of this "economy" was based on barter, along with relatively small amounts of cash (especially compared to say drug dealing or even prostitution).

These were mostly less formal versions of the things the moms in the other articles were shut down for doing on a scale that actually made a profit.

If times get really hard, the same basic catch 22 that affected these women (and some men) in the inner-city will spill over into a large portion of the American public and over-regulation will simply make everyone a criminal.

Like Prohibition, once people start realizing that nearly every thing they do is illegal anyway, the temptation to just not care anymore becomes increasingly powerful and often unstoppable.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
The the public facing part of the ads will change.

They don't seem to be able to control online sex business...or they don't want to.
Kickbacks and money to be made, not to mention "control files."

Again, I don't know if it is just plain human greed on the part of large corporations and their friends or an intentional attempt to remold society (possibly some of both) but the net result of both the COVID-19 prolonged shuts downs and now using technology to try to trace and shut down these small micro-businesses screams an agenda to force almost all commerce into the "Bigs" along with most forms of employment.

Today I saw on one of the British news wires that up to 2,000 pubs in the United Kingdom have closed during this period and will not be coming back. That fits with the big mega-corporation there that is famous for buying up traditional village pubs and turning them into soulless, yuppie "eateries with beer" announcing they are opening "97 new locations."

The other pubs that are not sold to big corporations are likely to end up like a couple in my Irish village, boarded up and sad looking waiting to become a parking lot or at best a "community center" if the building is "listed."
 

Stanb999

Inactive
Well then.

I want to know every aspect of where my food, medicine, everything made available to me in the same way as in the op.

As far as food goes there are are only 2 stores where you can ask for and get all of the info required as stated above. Whole Foods and Lidl. Both know from conception to table with meat, with veggies they can tell you where, how, and when.

Let's hold the same standard across the board, not just to the little guy.

Two words: black market


It's coming for food. At least any vegetable that is normally eaten raw or unprocessed.

FSMA Proposed Rule for Food Traceability
 

Wildwood

Veteran Member
If times get hard enough, this intensive over-regulation which is currently only made possible by technologies (often the same ones used to facilitate selling) will backfire.

Those African-American Mommas of 30 years ago risking everything to try to work to feed their families and get out of government control are just the tip of the iceberg.

Another study I read at the same time (I worked at AFDC, we saw this stuff) was about how the "good news" was that almost everyone, especially the Mothers in the welfare/inner-city communities was actually working. The "bad news" was it was all technically illegal and while helpful the work wasn't consistent enough to make a living at, except for the more formal sorts of businesses shut down by Cities and Counties in the previous article.

The most common forms of "work" were under the table babysitting exchanges, people with cars taking small payments for taking neighbors shopping, home sewing (often wedding dresses), preparing meals for others outside the family (usually in trade for something else), small appliance repairs and of course hairdressing.

Much of this "economy" was based on barter, along with relatively small amounts of cash (especially compared to say drug dealing or even prostitution).

These were mostly less formal versions of the things the moms in the other articles were shut down for doing on a scale that actually made a profit.

If times get really hard, the same basic catch 22 that affected these women (and some men) in the inner-city will spill over into a large portion of the American public and over-regulation will simply make everyone a criminal.

Like Prohibition, once people start realizing that nearly every thing they do is illegal anyway, the temptation to just not care anymore becomes increasingly powerful and often unstoppable.
Melodi, you do understand that being a hairdresser requires an average of 1500 hours of education and a rigorous state board examination lasting up to two full days. That education ranges from chemistry, training that includes a comprehensive knowledge of color that goes way beyond applying dye to the technicalities of properly cutting hair and applying caustic chemicals. Also, the shops are subject to random state inspection at any given time to make sure you are licensed and following sanitary practices among other things. I usually agree with everything you post but not that anyone should be able to hang out a shingle and call themselves a hairdresser. If you could see some of the disasters that came out of those uneducated women doing dangerous procedures in their kitchen, you probably wouldn't lump hairdressing in with sewing and baking. Some of the products used on ethnic hair back then were nothing but lye.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I am aware that a real hairdresser has to do all these things, but the sort of stuff most of these ladies was doing was probably more like hair braiding, or what a friend did for me a few years ago when she helped me dye my hair using a box of hair dye (my shoulder was out).

And really, you can make the same case for just about ANY home enterprise, which is the reason almost always given by cities/counties/states for shutting down anyone who doesn't have 10,000 dollars plus in fees and training from doing anything.

After all, untrained babysitters can make mistakes but the USA has gone from a couple of afternoons of classes aimed at young people and taught by volunteers (often the Red Cross) to require thousands of dollars in training, equipment and special buildings - I know my Mom would have had to shut down her home daycare after 30 years if she hadn't retired when she did.

This result in poor communities isn't that children are not babysat, it just means that nearly every service to do so is illegal and/or the kids are simply left with a nine-year-old sibling (just like when my Mom was a teacher in the early 1950s).

Make food at home? Yes, that can be highly dangerous, at least in the last severe downturn here in Ireland the government was smart enough to realize people would do it anyway. So they had guidelines and restrictions on what you could bake and sell (no custard pies, or raw cheeses) but also what you could sell - bread, cookies, cakes (no cream), and the like.

Home knitting, as others have pointed out, what about the buttons used on children's clothing, and is the yarn flammable?

Like hairdressing (of the serious sort) all of these potential "jobs" have issues when done at home and when they are unregulated. But by putting the start-up costs and regulations at so high a barrier that no one who does not already have thousands of dollars can open one, it creates and encourages a totally unregulated underground economy.

I don't have any easy solutions either, but going after people on Esty is probably going to do more harm than good, except in the most obvious cases where people are flogging fake medicines or Chinese baby formula on e-bay. I think there are already fraud and safety laws that cover that sort of thing though.

Again the problem with this bill is that the requirements are so high that most people will shut down their business rather than even try to spend the hundreds or even thousands to comply and I personally think that is part of the agenda.
 

Wildwood

Veteran Member
I am aware that a real hairdresser has to do all these things, but the sort of stuff most of these ladies was doing was probably more like hair braiding, or what a friend did for me a few years ago when she helped me dye my hair using a box of hair dye (my shoulder was out).

And really, you can make the same case for just about ANY home enterprise, which is the reason almost always given by cities/counties/states for shutting down anyone who doesn't have 10,000 dollars plus in fees and training from doing anything.

After all, untrained babysitters can make mistakes but the USA has gone from a couple of afternoons of classes aimed at young people and taught by volunteers (often the Red Cross) to require thousands of dollars in training, equipment and special buildings - I know my Mom would have had to shut down her home daycare after 30 years if she hadn't retired when she did.

This result in poor communities isn't that children are not babysat, it just means that nearly every service to do so is illegal and/or the kids are simply left with a nine-year-old sibling (just like when my Mom was a teacher in the early 1950s).

Make food at home? Yes, that can be highly dangerous, at least in the last severe downturn here in Ireland the government was smart enough to realize people would do it anyway. So they had guidelines and restrictions on what you could bake and sell (no custard pies, or raw cheeses) but also what you could sell - bread, cookies, cakes (no cream), and the like.

Home knitting, as others have pointed out, what about the buttons used on children's clothing, and is the yarn flammable?

Like hairdressing (of the serious sort) all of these potential "jobs" have issues when done at home and when they are unregulated. But by putting the start-up costs and regulations at so high a barrier that no one who does not already have thousands of dollars can open one, it creates and encourages a totally unregulated underground economy.

I don't have any easy solutions either, but going after people on Esty is probably going to do more harm than good, except in the most obvious cases where people are flogging fake medicines or Chinese baby formula on e-bay. I think there are already fraud and safety laws that cover that sort of thing though.

Again the problem with this bill is that the requirements are so high that most people will shut down their business rather than even try to spend the hundreds or even thousands to comply and I personally think that is part of the agenda.
I completely agree with you on the etsy thing and all the other skills but not the hairdressing...it's the only one on your list that requires an education, a license and an ongoing accountability. Plus they were taking work from the women who did sacrifice, work hard and pay for that privilege. Would it be ok if I, having a license, opened a shop on my property. What if that poor girl down the street with no license did the same and undercut my prices...would that be fair. I'm poor too but did it the right way.

Since I'm capable of giving myself and other family members allergy shots, would it be ok if I let my neighbors know that for the small fee of say $5 they can drop by and I'll give them their shot. After all I do have benadryl and an epi pen just in case. I know a lot of first aid and my great great grandfather was a country doctor.

Most of them were just braiding but not all. I remember when all that went down. Having a friend help you with hair coloring etc. is perfectly fine and not in the same ball park unless she charged you and if she did, that's a crappy friend. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
 

Sacajawea

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The problem with the legislation is how low they set the number of sales to defined as "high volume". Yes, Etsy has a high volume of sales, but 20 sales a month on average for the 3rd party is nowhere NEAR that.

Yes, I understand the need to curb patent & trademark infringement in IP. But this one size fits all mentality simply doesn't work.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I completely agree with you on the etsy thing and all the other skills but not the hairdressing...it's the only one on your list that requires an education, a license and an ongoing accountability. Plus they were taking work from the women who did sacrifice, work hard and pay for that privilege. Would it be ok if I, having a license, opened a shop on my property. What if that poor girl down the street with no license did the same and undercut my prices...would that be fair. I'm poor too but did it the right way.

Since I'm capable of giving myself and other family members allergy shots, would it be ok if I let my neighbors know that for the small fee of say $5 they can drop by and I'll give them their shot. After all I do have benadryl and an epi pen just in case. I know a lot of first aid and my great great grandfather was a country doctor.

Most of them were just braiding but not all. I remember when all that went down. Having a friend help you with hair coloring etc. is perfectly fine and not in the same ball park unless she charged you and if she did, that's a crappy friend. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Again, you are making some very valid points, but even 30 years ago when the original article was written almost the same arguments were made when the cities/states/counties impounded kitchens (from women selling homemade baked goods) or shut down "grandmas" informal daycare and/or impounded the car of someone driving their unrelated neighbors to the grocery store (the car wasn't a licensed taxi).

The competition with licensed providers was also mentioned, though honestly, I do see your point; but again I don't see how to easily solve this problem.

The women in the article would not have been able to afford (at least not back then) so there was a "need" in the local community for one. But since no one could afford the training and start-up costs, people did as they always do and figured out a way to fill it informally.

In any case, the real problem with this legislation isn't hair dressing, it is people selling handwoven scarves and handmade jewelry from their basements.
 

hiwall

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The problem with the legislation is how low they set the number of sales to defined as "high volume". Yes, Etsy has a high volume of sales, but 20 sales a month on average for the 3rd party is nowhere NEAR that.

Yes, I understand the need to curb patent & trademark infringement in IP. But this one size fits all mentality simply doesn't work.
And I did not see a dollar amount. If you have 200 sales a year and each is $10, that is only $2000 a year or $166 per month in gross sales. And if you are doubling your money you only actually make $1000 per year. Nothing in this day and age.
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
When I sold on ebay, I didn't have to have a business license.
Of course, I didn't deal in high volume either. (Maybe 5-10 sales a month)

Making a profit on ebay is hard enough, but with this garbage, it would be even harder.

I understand some of the bill would be legit, to weed out the scammers, but requiring business licenses is the real reason here.

This is just another way to milk more hard earned money(labor) from anyone who tries to make a side living.

first comes the required license, and then all of the insurance policies that go with said license.
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Kickbacks and money to be made, not to mention "control files."

Again, I don't know if it is just plain human greed on the part of large corporations and their friends or an intentional attempt to remold society (possibly some of both) but the net result of both the COVID-19 prolonged shuts downs and now using technology to try to trace and shut down these small micro-businesses screams an agenda to force almost all commerce into the "Bigs" along with most forms of employment.

Today I saw on one of the British news wires that up to 2,000 pubs in the United Kingdom have closed during this period and will not be coming back. That fits with the big mega-corporation there that is famous for buying up traditional village pubs and turning them into soulless, yuppie "eateries with beer" announcing they are opening "97 new locations."

The other pubs that are not sold to big corporations are likely to end up like a couple in my Irish village, boarded up and sad looking waiting to become a parking lot or at best a "community center" if the building is "listed."

The word you're looking for is "corporatism".
 

Stanb999

Inactive
I just read that. It's about as clear as mud.

To me as a farmer familiar with the topics and terms it's very clear.

Basically, they want to trace all veg. back to the field it was grown in within 24 hours. So issues like the Romaine recall debacle of 2019 doesn't happen again. What happened it the Romaine case was they first thought it was a few select farms, then they did a regional recall, then finally a nationwide recall. A;; pf the recall was worthless because the biggest issue they had was the fresh veg goes bad and is discarded faster then current tracing can be done. So they want instant computer ready tracing so they can investigate the cause of the issue within hours.
 

Wildwood

Veteran Member
Again, you are making some very valid points, but even 30 years ago when the original article was written almost the same arguments were made when the cities/states/counties impounded kitchens (from women selling homemade baked goods) or shut down "grandmas" informal daycare and/or impounded the car of someone driving their unrelated neighbors to the grocery store (the car wasn't a licensed taxi).

The competition with licensed providers was also mentioned, though honestly, I do see your point; but again I don't see how to easily solve this problem.

The women in the article would not have been able to afford (at least not back then) so there was a "need" in the local community for one. But since no one could afford the training and start-up costs, people did as they always do and figured out a way to fill it informally.

In any case, the real problem with this legislation isn't hair dressing, it is people selling handwoven scarves and handmade jewelry from their basements.
I also have one of those types of small businesses that you see on etsy, etc. and have been at it over twenty years. Believe me, I'm feeling the pain of possibilities. Even though my current business requires no licensing or any kind of oversight, it should. In other countries, it does. Not to worry though, the increase in costs of goods sold and sheer unavailability of those goods is slowly putting me out of business, at least on a wholesale level which is the bulk of my sales.

I do have a business permit, business account and a tax number. I'm about as far from wealthy as you get and yet I am still able to do it legally. I don't sell on etsy, etc. but I've thought about it. It's a PIA in so many ways that I prefer to do my selling locally.

Don't think for a minute that I don't have a heart for the struggling poor. I do all I can and sometimes more than I can really afford. Those businesses you mention are usually ran under the table with no accountability at all...you will never see them on a place like etsy where there is accountability. I have no problem with them letting me pay a little more as far as taxes, etc. so they can give their children what they need but I do draw the line at providing services that should be licensed. There is a reason a license is required when education and training are involved and that's the last I have to say about this subject. I'm pretty sure we will not see this in the same light, ever.

edited to clarify my point.
 
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pauldingbabe

The Great Cat
To me as a farmer familiar with the topics and terms it's very clear.

Basically, they want to trace all veg. back to the field it was grown in within 24 hours. So issues like the Romaine recall debacle of 2019 doesn't happen again. What happened it the Romaine case was they first thought it was a few select farms, then they did a regional recall, then finally a nationwide recall. A;; pf the recall was worthless because the biggest issue they had was the fresh veg goes bad and is discarded faster then current tracing can be done. So they want instant computer ready tracing so they can investigate the cause of the issue within hours.


Oh, I understand what it's saying. With the exclusions and kill procedures, shipping, brokers, and middle men is where it gets murky to me.

I hate reading legalese. They purposely make it obscure and repetitive. Kinda like going around your ass to get to your elbow.
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
I also have one of those types of small businesses that you see on etsy, etc. and have been at it over twenty years. Believe me, I'm feeling the pain of possibilities. Even though my current business requires no licensing or any kind of oversight, it should. In other countries, it does. Not to worry though, the increase in costs of goods sold and sheer unavailability of those goods is slowly putting me out of business, at least on a wholesale level which is the bulk of my sales.

I do have a business permit, business account and a tax number. I'm about as far from wealthy as you get and yet I am still able to do it legally. I don't sell on etsy, etc. but I've thought about it. It's a PIA in so many ways that I prefer to do my selling locally.

Don't think for a minute that I don't have a heart for the struggling poor. I do all I can and sometimes more than I can really afford. Those businesses you mention are usually ran under the table with no accountability at all...you will never see them on a place like etsy where there is accountability. I have no problem with them letting me pay a little more as far as taxes, etc. so they can give their children what they need but I do draw the line at providing services that should be licensed. There is a reason a license is required when education and training are involved and that's the last I have to say about this subject. I'm pretty sure we will not see this in the same light, ever.

edited to clarify my point.

If you're welling crochet wash clothes I don't believe you should be required to have a business permit, unless of course you have a factory filled with third world laborers crocheting the wash clothes for you and then that's a whole nuther level of productivity.
 

Mprepared

Veteran Member
Under the INFORM Consumers Act, a third-party vendor would be classified as a high-volume seller if they "entered into 200 more…sales or transactions" in a twelve-month period on eCommerce sites such as Etsy, Amazon, or eBay. Once classified as a high-volume seller, sellers would be forced to provide consumers with their full name, business address, information as to whether the vendor manufactures, imports, or resells products. Additionally, vendors would be forced to provide the online eCommerce platform with verified bank account information, a government-issued photo I.D., a government-issued record verifying business information, and a business tax identification number. This information must be provided within two business days. [HOLEEE CRAP!!!
:shocker:
]


Failure to provide this information in the required timeframe would force eCommerce platforms to suspend stores, preventing them from making sales and earning additional income. The suspension would only be lifted once the owner provides the required information.

I am rereading this and trying to understand, so if you sell more than 200 items you then have to give to the eCommerce platform, which would be Etsy, Ebay, etc. your bank account information, which Etsy already has at least for me, money taken out and deposited, a government issued photo ID, driver's license? which would be given to Etsy?, a government issued record verifying business information? what is this?
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
Hysterical nonsense.
First of all etsy charges per item posted and 5% of sales so they could be easily sued for huge damages if a purchaser suffers injury or loss due to fraud or harmful products. So it is the least Etsy or any online platform should do, is to require their vendors to provide pertinent financial info like tax ID numbers and banking info.

Second when I go to a small brick and mortar store, or even a flea market, if I or my family are defrauded or injured by a product I can come back and rip out the throat of the vendor.
That ability of the purchaser to get up close and personal with the vendor needs to be maintained in online sales conducted by "tiny business" people hiding behind a screen of anonymity.

The crap about the "poor women" is just crap since the rule would apply to all vendors both male and female, and to all vendors who make from 200 sales a year up to tens of thousands of sales a year. Yes there are those who make a fair living on such online flea markets.
If I opened a damned hot dog cart I'd still have to pay taxes. Why in the hell should a person selling their junk on etsy or ebay get away from the same obligations and be able to hide behind a screen of anonymity?
 

Wildwood

Veteran Member
If you're welling crochet wash clothes I don't believe you should be required to have a business permit, unless of course you have a factory filled with third world laborers crocheting the wash clothes for you and then that's a whole nuther level of productivity.
I agree with that. The issue wasn't permits. I have a permit because I have to have one to get a tax number. I have to have a tax number to buy my supplies at a wholesale price and not have to pay sales tax on them. I, in turn, sell wholesale so that small percentage I save on sales tax for my cost of goods sold matters in my bottom line.

edited to add...many wholesale suppliers I deal with will not sell to me without a tax number...it's a necessary evil.
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Hysterical nonsense.
First of all etsy charges per item posted and 5% of sales so they could be easily sued for huge damages if a purchaser suffers injury or loss due to fraud or harmful products. So it is the least Etsy or any online platform should do, is to require their vendors to provide pertinent financial info like tax ID numbers and banking info.

Second when I go to a small brick and mortar store, or even a flea market, if I or my family are defrauded or injured by a product I can come back and rip out the throat of the vendor.
That ability of the purchaser to get up close and personal with the vendor needs to be maintained in online sales conducted by "tiny business" people hiding behind a screen of anonymity.

The crap about the "poor women" is just crap since the rule would apply to all vendors both male and female, and to all vendors who make from 200 sales a year up to tens of thousands of sales a year. Yes there are those who make a fair living on such online flea markets.
If I opened a damned hot dog cart I'd still have to pay taxes. Why in the hell should a person selling their junk on etsy or ebay get away from the same obligations and be able to hide behind a screen of anonymity?

IIRC females make up about 78% of the vendors on Etsy, not sure what it is on eBay but it could be as high. And then there's facebook market place with is also predominately female.
 

Buick Electra

TB2K Girls with Guns
I am rereading this and trying to understand, so if you sell more than 200 items you then have to give to the eCommerce platform, which would be Etsy, Ebay, etc. your bank account information, which Etsy already has at least for me, money taken out and deposited, a government issued photo ID, driver's license? which would be given to Etsy?, a government issued record verifying business information? what is this?

More than the eCommerce platform, you have to give that private information to CONSUMERS!
 

Stanb999

Inactive
More than the eCommerce platform, you have to give that private information to CONSUMERS!
No you have to give it to the online platform...

Then you have an exemption for consumer disclosure.

(2) EXCEPTION.—
(A) IN GENERAL.—Subject to subparagraph (B), upon the request of a high-volume third party seller, an online marketplace may provide for partial disclosure of the identity information required under paragraph (1)(A) in the following situations:
(i) If the high-volume third party seller demonstrates to the online marketplace that the seller does not have a business address and only has a personal street address, the online marketplace may direct the high-volume third-party seller to disclose only the country and, if applicable, the State in which the high-volume third-party seller resides on the product listing, and may inform consumers that there is no business address available for the seller and that consumer inquiries should be submitted to the seller’s email address.
(ii) If a high-volume third party seller demonstrates to the online marketplace that the seller does not have a phone number other than a personal phone number, the online marketplace may inform consumers that there is no phone number available for the seller and that consumer inquiries should be submitted to the seller’s email address.
 

Mprepared

Veteran Member
More than the eCommerce platform, you have to give that private information to CONSUMERS!

Oh, I just went and read again. It was above where it said information given to consumers. I am not sure about all products, but if making baby clothes and I think adult clothes the label has to have your name, where the product was made imported or domestic, an address where you can be contacted in case of a recall, it does not have to have your whole home address YET, but has either email, web address, some way of tracing you, what the product is made of, cotton or whatever, and then you keep track of where you bought this cotton, zipper, button or whatever. I know Etsy sellers get horrible reviews sometimes and demanding products be returned or saying lost in the mail, and verbal threats. I really do not want to deal with all this. Worrying some product made caused damage to a child, but no reason it should anymore than one bought in the store, but some child eats their shirt and swallows a button and you get blamed. A bib catches on fire when a child is blowing out a birthday candle. I read that fire departments prefers cotton on the back of bibs instead of polyester because polyester melts to the skin. My mother used to give our neighbor my clothes when I out grew them. Their daughter was 1 year younger. One day the little girl was in the bathroom and standing too close to the wall heater and her dress went up in flames. She was burned bad. She had to go to a burn center. They moved away and never saw them again, but my mother beat herself up over it saying she just bet it was this real flimsy material dress she gave them. No proof it was that dress or any given by my mother, but my mother always worried it was HER FAULT. I believe the blame should be on the parents if a baby swallows a button. I clear my house of anything dangerous when my grandchildren come over. I don't really have a lot of things to move, I made the house child proof. I make sure no skillet or pots and pans on cabinets or oven to reach a handle, nothing on edge of anything that could fall. Pictures on walls but not over couches or chairs. I move all my sewing stuff where it cannot be reached. I sweep and vacuum the floor to make sure nothing to put in mouth. I cut their food up small. I am careful how they go out on the steps, but some idiot lets their kid choke wearing a bib and some woman thousands of miles away who picked the cute fabric and make it where it would not fall apart is to blame. This country is stupid. Having to put warnings on plastic bags not to put over your head. I have no trouble following safety laws, buy lead free snaps and things, and do what is right, but to deal with idiots, no.
 

rob0126

Veteran Member
The problem with the legislation is how low they set the number of sales to defined as "high volume". Yes, Etsy has a high volume of sales, but 20 sales a month on average for the 3rd party is nowhere NEAR that.

Yes, I understand the need to curb patent & trademark infringement in IP. But this one size fits all mentality simply doesn't work.

I believe it works as intended, but not for the purpose given.

It's about controlling absolutely everything we do.

The sooner the system crashes the better.
 

rob0126

Veteran Member
...If I opened a damned hot dog cart I'd still have to pay taxes. Why in the hell should a person selling their junk on etsy or ebay get away from the same obligations and be able to hide behind a screen of anonymity?

That's just it, you shouldn't have to have a fee(license) to sell hot dogs at a hot dog stand; or lemonade for that matter.

A food safety certificate would be good, so everyone knows you know how to wash your hands and when to toss out old hot dogs (A free online course); But a fee is not the answer.

It just fills the coffers of corrupt officials, and gives them a stick to beat you over the head with.

In old times, if someone sold you something that harmed you (unintended consequences), you would go back to that person and hold them personally responsible. (Within reason)

Let a common law court handle who owes what if a dispute arises. (No grift/fees for the judges, lawyers, etc)

If folks understood the true system we live under, the uprising would be epic.
 
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KFhunter

Veteran Member
Hey womans, you can put your business in my name and I'll just skim a % off the top for the use of my gender.

Since congress won't be going after dudes n all

Jus sayn
 
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