PREP A Question on Water Storage

hypoluxo

hypoluxo

Veteran Lurker
Around 8 - 10 years ago I took about 50 plastic soda and juice containers, washed them thoroughly, and filled them with water, adding a couple of drops of unscented bleach to each. They have been in storage since that time. Is there any reason I should drain and refill these containers after some period of time, like now?

My concerns are:

- leeching of chemicals from the plastic containers,
- mild contamination of the water due to age and the fact that the seals may not as perfect as one may want them to be.

Thoughts?
 
SouthernBreeze

SouthernBreeze

Has No Life - Lives on TB
hypoluxo said:
Around 8 - 10 years ago I took about 50 plastic soda and juice containers, washed them thoroughly, and filled them with water, adding a couple of drops of unscented bleach to each. They have been in storage since that time. Is there any reason I should drain and refill these containers after some period of time, like now?

My concerns are:

- leeching of chemicals from the plastic containers,
- mild contamination of the water due to age and the fact that the seals may not as perfect as one may want them to be.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Good question, since we have some water stored in containers that are several years old, too.
 
T

Terrwyn

Veteran Member
I have no answer but I have my ex food barrels along with my water storage tank dumped and replaced twice a year.
I would like to know too. It would however worry me to use water that old so I would replace to be on the safe side.
 
Freeholder

Freeholder

This too shall pass.
I don't have it in front of me, but I believe the recommendation is to empty and refill containers annually or even more often if you may need to use the water for drinking. If it's just to flush the toilet, it wouldn't even need the bleach in it.

Kathleen
 
SouthernBreeze

SouthernBreeze

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Would running the stored water through a Berkey be helpful? We have 4 food grade 55 gal barrels full of water that is well over a couple of years old.
 
Meemur

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
I rotate through my stored water, but if I didn't, I would use it to water my garden in the summer.
 
C

Cohickman

Veteran Member
3 55 gallon barrels here. I rotate annually. I have chlorine added to maintain the water.

I would think if it was not discolored or had an odor it would be ok. But if you can rotate, do it.
 
Dennis Olson

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
A Berkey won’t remove many chemicals, even with the charcoal filters. Some but not all. And the white filters won’t remove any at all.
 
SouthernBreeze

SouthernBreeze

Has No Life - Lives on TB
We do rotate the water we use on a regular basis. The 4 55 gal barrels were filled, chlorinated, and then stored in Cary's workshop. They aren't easily accessible so, that's why they haven't been used or rotated. I guess he needs to dig them out this summer, and empty them. We have rain barrels that we can use for washing and watering the gardens. They get emptied and refilled once a year.
 
hypoluxo

hypoluxo

Veteran Lurker
gonewacky said:
I'm drinking water that has been stored for thousands of years in rocks under the ground. Sunlight is the question? Has it been kept in the dark?
Click to expand...

The water has been stored in clear containers (ex-soda bottles mostly) inside the house, but not in a dark room. So, it seems that the consensus is to drain and refill, so that’s my chore for tomorrow. Thanks!
 
Millwright

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
Dennis Olson said:
A Berkey won’t remove many chemicals, even with the charcoal filters. Some but not all. And the white filters won’t remove any at all.
Click to expand...

Black Berkey Elements:
To be classified as a water purifier, a water treatment device must remove at least 99.9999% of pathogenic bacteria and reduce viruses by 99.99%. The Black Berkey Purification Elements can be classified as water purifiers because they remove 99.9999999% of pathogenic bacteria and 99.999% of viruses, which greatly exceeds the standard. The Black Berkey Purification Element formulation has been tested by State and EPA accredited laboratories to exceed NSF/ANSI Standard 53.
VIRUSES – Removed to >99.999% (Log 5)
Exceeds Purification Standard (Log 4):
MS2 Coliphage; Fr Coliphage.

PATHOGENIC BACTERIA (AND SURROGATES) – Removed to >99.9999999%
Exceeds Purification Standard (Log 6): Bacillus atrophaeus (Anthrax surrogate); Raoultella terrigena (Pathogenic Bacteria Surrogate); Salmonella Enterica.

TRIHALOMETHANES – Removed to >99.8%
(Below Lab Detectable Limits):
Bromodichloromethane; Bromoform; Chloroform; Dibromochloromethane.

INORGANIC MINERALS
Removed to Below Lab Detectable Limits:Chloramine; Chloride; Chlorine Residual (Total Residual Chlorine); Free Chlorine

HEAVY METALS (HIGH & LOW pH LEVELS)
Aluminum (>99%); Antimony (>99.9%); Barium (>80%); Beryllium (>99.9%); Bismuth (>99.9%); Cadmium (>99.7%); Cobalt (>95%); Chromium (>99.9%); Chromium-6 (>99.85%); Copper (>99.9%); Iron (>99.9%); Lead (>99.9%); Mercury (>99.9%); Molybdenum (>90%); Nickel (>99.9%); Vanadium (>87.5%); Zinc (>99.9%).
Inorganic Minerals, Pesticides, Petroleum, Pharmaceuticals, Semi-VOC’s, THM’s, VOC’s; reduction exceeded lab detection limits.

PHARMACEUTICAL DRUGS CONTAMINANTS – Removed to >99.9%
Acetaminophen; Caffeine; Carbamazepine; Ciprofloxacin HCl; Erythromycin USP; Sulfamethoxazole; Trimethoprim; Bisphenol A; Diclofenac Sodium; 4-para-Nonylphenol; 4-tert-Octylphenol; Primidone; Progestrone; Gemfibrozil; Ibuprofen; Naproxen Sodium; Triclosan.

ALSO REMOVES OR REDUCES:
Arsenic (>99.9%); Escherichia coli (E. Coli) (>99.999%); Fluorene (>99.9%); Manganese (>99.9%); MBAS (>96.67%); Nitrites (>95%); PCB’s (>99.9%); Petroleum Products (Gasoline, Diesel, Crude Oil, Kerosene, Mineral Spirits, Refined Oil- All >99.9%); Selenium (>99.9%); Thallium (>99.5%); Rust; Silt; Sediment; Turbidity; Foul Tastes and Odors.


theberkey.com

What does Berkey Water Filter remove? Lab Test Results

Our goal is to provide purification and filtration systems that can remove and reduce as many toxic contaminants as possible without removing all the healthful and beneficial minerals your body needs. The Berkey Water Filter Systems are more powerful than any other gravity filter element...
theberkey.com theberkey.com



A countering article...FWIW

4perfectwater.com

Berkey Filter: Here's the Truth

This article takes an in-depth look at the Berkey Filter. What is the technology behind it? Does it work? What should you know about the Berkey?
4perfectwater.com 4perfectwater.com
 
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Dennis Olson

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
Sunlight and storage temperature. When I left my Wisconsin house in 2011, I pumped out the drums that had been stored in the basement since 1999. After 12 years, that water tasted fine.
 
Smoke

Smoke

Veteran Member
If you have the water to refill, why not? It won't hurt anything, or if you have the room just keep adding bottles, but mark the date on them. I would be more concerned that the plastic bottles would start breaking down after a bit. I used to store water in plastic milk jugs, people said it wouldn't be good, but I rotated and I figured this water would be better than no water. Many a time I had to use it as when they flushed the fire hydrants our city water would be very rusty/cloudy, so I would just grab a jug. I had over 100 containers and when we moved years later I had 2 that leaked some. My thought is anything is better than nothing, but just don't dump them and not refill.
 
naegling62

naegling62

Veteran Member
Speaking of old water, our local water source on Sand Mountain is from an aquifer fed by a spring in Tennessee. Our water was carbon dated to be about 2,000 years old. At one time it was ranked 2 best tasting tap water in Alabama...and it definitely is.

On my hill top at about 1,200 there is a spring that comes out of nowhere. It runs slightly most of the year.
 
Millwright

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
naegling62 said:
Speaking of old water, our local water source on Sand Mountain is from an aquifer fed by a spring in Tennessee. Our water was carbon dated to be about 2,000 years old. At one time it was ranked 2 best tasting tap water in Alabama...and it definitely is.
Click to expand...

Does it make good moonshine? :D
 
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db cooper

db cooper

Resident Secret Squirrel
I used to work water treatment and learned water will stay relatively safe if stored cool, dark and in a sealed container provided there was no contaminants in the water to begin with and the container itself did not leach anything into it. In about 2005 I took a 16 oz can of survival water canned in the 1960's the same way a can of peaches or beans would have been. Nothing wrong with it.

On the other hand freshly made reverse osmosis water will grow things if left to the open atmosphere at room temperature.

One of my jobs was to collect samples from water coolers that used these 5 gallon refillable jugs like those filled at Walmart. These are quite hazardous due to how they are handled. This water would flunk BacT tests, that is testing would show it was unsafe for human consumption. The water used to fill these jugs, or if the jugs are filled commercially, is quite safe to use. The problem is how this water is handled once purchased.

We watched a 5 gallon jug get contaminated by an end user to verify how it was done. This guy just left the bathroom. Took the seal off a fresh jug, grabbed the neck where the seal was with his bare hands and put it into the cooler. This clown just contaminated his own water with fecal matter. It was a public rest room. The door knob itself would be contaminated unless each and every person thoroughly washed their hands before touching.
 
T

Terrwyn

Veteran Member
I think my Katadyn filters safer than the BB but is hard to use. It says you can filter a mud puddle and kills bacteria and protazoa. When I looked at it on Amazon I couldn't believe the cost. I've had mine for years.
 
Samuel Adams

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
hypoluxo said:
Around 8 - 10 years ago I took about 50 plastic soda and juice containers, washed them thoroughly, and filled them with water, adding a couple of drops of unscented bleach to each. They have been in storage since that time. Is there any reason I should drain and refill these containers after some period of time, like now?

My concerns are:

- leeching of chemicals from the plastic containers,
- mild contamination of the water due to age and the fact that the seals may not as perfect as one may want them to be.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I would use the water for other purposes, and start over.

And....God did not intend mankind to use chlorine, one of the deadliest poisons on earth, to “purify” his water.

Yuk.

Water purification is why God gave us 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide.

The stuff is actually GOOD for you, your plants....your animals.

Use about the same ratio as you were with the bleach.

Bleach. :kk2:
 
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db cooper

db cooper

Resident Secret Squirrel
Samuel Adams said:
I would use the water for other purposes, and start over.

And....God did not intend mankind to use chlorine, one of the deadliest poisons on earth, to “purify” his water.

Yuk.

Water purification is why God have us 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide.

The stuff is actually GOOD for you, your plants....your animals.

Use about the same ratio as you were with the bleach.

Bleach. :kk2:
Click to expand...
After reading your post I found information on the net regarding how it is used and what it does. It really sounds great in many respects. In particular it's ability to remove iron.

But what I question is what keeps the water from being contaminated once it is treated with hydrogen peroxide? With chlorine, the water is tested, and if there is a residual shown in the test results, the water is generally considered safe. If there is no residual, safety then becomes questionable.

In other words, does hydrogen peroxide have residual working properties that keeps the water safe after the initial treatment that is detectable like chlorine is?

When we go camping I test the water, if no chlorine I add to ensure it's safe to use. We also test it to be certain it's within safe limits.
 
Samuel Adams

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
db cooper said:
After reading your post I found information on the net regarding how it is used and what it does. It really sounds great in many respects. In particular it's ability to remove iron.

But what I question is what keeps the water from being contaminated once it is treated with hydrogen peroxide? With chlorine, the water is tested, and if there is a residual shown in the test results, the water is generally considered safe. If there is no residual, safety then becomes questionable.

In other words, does hydrogen peroxide have residual working properties that keeps the water safe after the initial treatment that is detectable like chlorine is?

When we go camping I test the water, if no chlorine I add to ensure it's safe to use. We also test it to be certain it's within safe limits.
Click to expand...

Well now......I see some variables in answering those questions.

How long is the water to be stored ?

Will the water be stored in sealed containers ?

Peroxide does slowly lose its potency over time, but in a sealed container, no contaminants can enter after the fact.

There may need be a bit of research done, but my suspicion would be that, for longer term storage, a larger dose/percentage of peroxide to water would be the ticket.

Other than hearing nothing but good from several of my agricultural and culinary matters mentors....my experience with peroxide is generally short term, in regard to water purification, as we have springs from which we draw house water, and our rain water catchment system is of continuous use. The water never sits for long.

We do have one 550 gallon tank that handles summer rain water... and it will periodically accumulate algae, and/or give off a slight bacterial odor, and sometimes a very slight clouding.

One cup of 35% peroxide eliminates all of that, overnight, leaving the entire 550 gallons fresh, clear and odorless the following morning.

We use it in cleanup of the milking stainlessware.
We put a similar ratio in our animals’ drinking water.
It is a real testament to see how fresh the cows and chickens waterers maintain with a few drops of peroxide added once a week.....

Read up on it. In short order, you’ll have me beat for book-larnin’ on the topic.

Most of mine is from experience.

Incidentally.....peroxide replaces bleach in stain removal and whitening of laundry, as well.

And we’ve yet to delve into the medicinal and internal cleansing uses....
 
Samuel Adams

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Millwright said:
I'm not a fan of long term storage in plastic, at least for drinking.

Just too many chemicals to leach out, especially if it's stored in a hot environment.
Click to expand...

Same here.

Glass, stainless or stoneware are all we use for food storage and potable water.
 
Samuel Adams

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Dennis Olson said:
Peroxide is not a disinfectant.
Click to expand...

Everything that I have read, heard or experienced indicates the exact opposite.

It is precisely a disinfectant.

It is NOT a filter and does NOT ensure the removal of all mineral contaminants.
 
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db cooper

db cooper

Resident Secret Squirrel
Samuel Adams said:
Most of mine is from experience.
Click to expand...
Same here, I worked water treatment for about 20 years, where chlorine was primarily used. This work was for water consumed by the public, and we had to use the most economical treatment authorized by the EPA, which was chlorine. Much of chlorine's bad name is from over dosing, which creates an odor, noticeable taste and is hard on sensitive skin, which is why for home use I use a test kit.

We never used to treat our own water, which is from a well, until we recently replaced our water heater. The hot water started smelling rotten egg, then turned gray it was so septic. I super chlorinated it, then it was fine for a month, and every 30 days or so the rotten egg smell comes back, and is re-chlorinated. We think there is a dead critter inside the new water heater, probably a mouse.

Thanks for your reply.
 
Samuel Adams

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
db cooper said:
Same here, I worked water treatment for about 20 years, where chlorine was primarily used. This work was for water consumed by the public, and we had to use the most economical treatment authorized by the EPA, which was chlorine. Much of chlorine's bad name is from over dosing, which creates an odor, noticeable taste and is hard on sensitive skin, which is why for home use I use a test kit.

We never used to treat our own water, which is from a well, until we recently replaced our water heater. The hot water started smelling rotten egg, then turned gray it was so septic. I super chlorinated it, then it was fine for a month, and every 30 days or so the rotten egg smell comes back, and is re-chlorinated. We think there is a dead critter inside the new water heater, probably a mouse.

Thanks for your reply.
Click to expand...

A very informative experiment might be conducted in your situation.....replacing chlorine with peroxide and comparing timeframes, etc.
 
db cooper

db cooper

Resident Secret Squirrel
Samuel Adams said:
A very informative experiment might be conducted in your situation.....replacing chlorine with peroxide and comparing timeframes, etc.
Click to expand...
Very interesting! Yes it would be worth a try. This is a 40 gallon tank, what I do is open and close various valves, put a suction hose in a container of bleach and let it siphon into the tank. Repressurize it, let it set over night. 3/4 cup of bleach superchlorinates the hell out of it. Would an equal amount of that 35% peroxide do the trick?
 
Samuel Adams

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
db cooper said:
Very interesting! Yes it would be worth a try. This is a 40 gallon tank, what I do is open and close various valves, put a suction hose in a container of bleach and let it siphon into the tank. Repressurize it, let it set over night. 3/4 cup of bleach superchlorinates the hell out of it. Would an equal amount of that 35% peroxide do the trick?
Click to expand...

For a super potent start to the experiment, I would say yes.

If the result is positive, back off the dose until you find out how little peroxide you may need to accomplish the same goal ?
 
Samuel Adams

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Incidentally, 35% peroxide costs per gallon are all over the board.

I JUST ordered a 55 gallon drum from an Amish supplier.....9 bucks a gallon, my cost.
 
Millwright

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
Look into chemical feed pumps for your well/water system.

I think you can tie it to the pump and send a little chlorine down the casing, into the well.or into the line before a pressure tank.

It might take a little tweaking to get it right.

Something like this,

www.watertreatmentsupply.com

Home - Water Treatment, Chemical Metering Pumps, Bypass Filter System

WATER TREATMENT EQUIPMENT & WASTE WATER TREATMENT SUPPLIES We are a reliable, established nationwide supplier of chemical metering pumps, cooling tower controllers, boiler controllers, bypass feeders, filters and accessories. Shop Now Shop Categories Chemical Metering Pumps Cooling Tower...
www.watertreatmentsupply.com www.watertreatmentsupply.com
 
AlaskaSue

AlaskaSue

North to the Future
Good question: even though we have abundant, unused water around here (really nearby, too) from glaciers locking in water from thousand of years ago...I've always stored water. Five gal containers and freshened them every 4th of July and Christmas since 1982. My brother is the chief operator for the water treatment plant in a major city near here...he told me - expert opinion, not mine - that just dipping a spoon into bleach, and stirring it into your 5-gallon container is sufficient. As long as you don't have frogs, alligators, or moose therein.

I myself survived a summer drinking from a river full of spawned out salmon - I am not kidding and I give all glory to God for protecting me because I knew it was very, very risky. But thirst and need can overcome knowledge. I do not recommend it but for the grace of God :)
 
Dennis Olson

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
I used ¼ cup of bleach in 55 gallons. From what I’d read, that was the generally recommended amount. (City water)
 
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