ECON What a National $15 Minimum Wage Looks Like

TA12SEC

Senior Member
I dont care what minimum wage goes to. Its going to cost my bussiness about 500.00 per week at 15.00. With the covid shutdowns and restrictions we lost 33000 last year. Whats the difference between -33000 or -50000 either way my bussiness will close.
That said bring on the universal basic income, I can't wait. I won't have to worry about my bussiness any longer and I can quit the 60 hour a week job I'm working to keep the lights in my own bussiness on.
2000 a month for each of us is way more then. We have for ourselves right now.
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Nothing pisses me off more than self-checkout! I don't get paid to work there why in the hell would the company expect me to bag and give them $$$. Especially Walmart when your self-checkout machine goes wonky and you can't even find ANYONE to help you give them YOUR own $$$! Don't forget to bring your cart back! Grrr Thus, I do not shop at those stores. They did a time study on grocery stores. Unless you're checking 1-2 items, it's quicker to go through the regular line. I have found they aren't wrong! Plus you don't have to run down help or bag your own groceries! Many, many years ago. The cute little teenaged boy would walk your groceries to your car without a tip! Freezing cold, rain, heat whatever and they did it with a smile! Yes m'am's and they would take the cart back! They got paid 1.65 an hour! Never complained either.

I bag my own groceries anyway, even at the manned check-outs. Why? My first full-time job was as a grocery-store cashier, and we couldn't always count on having a bag-boy to pack the groceries. Back then, the cash-register was not electronic but the old-fashioned kind where you type in the price of each item. I spent the first three days just being TRAINED on buildling speed and accuracy in checking out several "dummy" orders of merchandise, and one of the things I was taught was HOW to properly pack a paper grocery bag so it WOULD NOT SPLIT.

There are ways to do that--but you have to have common sense. Heavy items on bottom--and preferably "shaped" items that match or closely match the outlines of the bag--sugar, flour, canned goods, etc. ONE row of heavy, then the rest lighter items on top. NEVER put heavy items on top of light. Never over-fill top of bag (items hanging out). ALWAYS put bananas or tomatoes on top, and always eggs in their own separate sack.

Now?

The kids indiscriminately throw anything and everything into the same plastic bag, often not even looking at what they're throwing in because they're carrying on a conversation with the cashier about their new nails, hair extensions, or boyfriends, so they're like as not to throw a bag of sugar on top of the eggs and put the bottle of Lysol on top.
 

TKO

Veteran Member
Not sure whether to laugh or cry at all he many lost jobs, the workers with cut back hours and the stores that will quit doing business.

Economics through rose colored glasses ignoring reality does not work.

Fast Food jobs were never intended to allow a person to support their family. They are jpbs for college and high school kids looking for means to go on dates and buy cars.

The economic model was to keep costs low so you you can provide low prices for your products. If the products get too high people quit buying and just cook at home or go somewhere else.

People.were expected to better thems elves with a degree or a trade.

That is where you do not improve yourself you can expect to say "Do you want frys with that?"

Now the expectation is they as workers get high wages without haing to get the skills thatjustify them.

You can not do business that way and if you try you fail.
For YEARS I have seen people on SS working these jobs, though. I saw an elderly lady at Menards Saturday. WOW! She had a walker. I'd bet she was in her late 70s or early 80s. For people that couldn't save enough from scum and good wage jobs the RINOs and Dems took away over the years, they are forced to keep working in these "high school" and "college" jobs. I remember in the late 70s and early 80s I couldn't find a kid job to save my life. Grown men with families were applying for those jobs. Now, there is more competition than ever with these illegals and foreigners. I suspect we are heading back to those days fast.
 

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
Unless I get a raise, I won't be able to afford to eat out as restaurants raise their prices to afford $15/hr help.

My first work around was to buy an air fryer, which makes awesome french fries and onion rings, two items I tend to buy from others. I'm also considering an Instant Pot.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who'll be placing most restaurants on the NO GO list. I will continue to buy muffins and coffee at the locally owned cafe. I support local businesses as much as I can.
 

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
The kids indiscriminately throw anything and everything into the same plastic bag, often not even looking at what they're throwing in because they're carrying on a conversation with the cashier about their new nails, hair extensions, or boyfriends, so they're like as not to throw a bag of sugar on top of the eggs and put the bottle of Lysol on top.

I've taught several of them how to pack a paper bag, properly and quickly. It's an art. Part of it: no one is teaching them and then following up to make sure they are doing it correctly.
 

TKO

Veteran Member
Unless I get a raise, I won't be able to afford to eat out as restaurants raise their prices to afford $15/hr help.

My first work around was to buy an air fryer, which makes awesome french fries and onion rings, two items I tend to buy from others. I'm also considering an Instant Pot.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who'll be placing most restaurants on the NO GO list. I will continue to buy muffins and coffee at the locally owned cafe. I support local businesses as much as I can.
Love the instant pot!!! My wife makes shredded beef and chicken in it for lots of things. It makes them quickly and everything is moist. We don't have an air fryer...but maybe it is something we should get. My oldest loves her air fryer.
 

mikeabn

Finally not a lurker!
Can anyone figure out what the loaded labor rate will (approximately) be if the minimum goes to $15, or are there too many variables (which i think)?
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Not sure whether to laugh or cry at all he many lost jobs, the workers with cut back hours and the stores that will quit doing business.

Economics through rose colored glasses ignoring reality does not work.

Fast Food jobs were never intended to allow a person to support their family. They are jpbs for college and high school kids looking for means to go on dates and buy cars.

The economic model was to keep costs low so you you can provide low prices for your products. If the products get too high people quit buying and just cook at home or go somewhere else.

People.were expected to better thems elves with a degree or a trade.

That is where you do not improve yourself you can expect to say "Do you want frys with that?"

Now the expectation is they as workers get high wages without haing to get the skills thatjustify them.

You can not do business that way and if you try you fail.


I remember reading (b/c I was bored---I usually avoid it like the plague) Doonesbury one day, and the guy with the wife (or live-in girlfriend, knowing them) who has that short black hair that's always in her face were talking about minimum wage.

She was explaining to him that it "won't" adversely affect the economy or cause more unemployment, because

all the EXTRA money those employees will be making will be going right back into the economy in increased spending, and thus the companies will be making even MORE money, which means they'll be doing ever BETTER than before!

Liberal thinking is so much fun, ain't it?
 

Faroe

Un-spun
Self checkout has fewer germs. I don't need another person touching the packaging. Automation happens. In a free economy, people adapt. Otherwise, you might as well argue for everything hand crafted, and food grown with horse pulled plows.

I can't boycott a robotic fast food establishment, because I don't enter one from one decade to the next. Nevertheless, knowing that no person is going to mess with my food, might make me more likely to occasionally buy something there.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Actually, fast food and the restaurant industry, in general, was one traditional way that folks with little to no official educations COULD eventually rise through the ranks and earn enough money to not only support a family but to open their own business.

The idea was you started as a bus boy/waitress became a cook/hostess and then worked up to the manager, usually marrying someone in the business along the way. You both saved and scrimped until you could open your own place, often with your kids as unpaid labor in the back.

Early franchises also played on this model pretending to provide "support" to the older idea of "Why don't we open an Italian/Chinese/Diner type place when we have enough money saved?"

I was still waiting tables when I was in Graduate School and there was actually someone who did their thesis on this pattern for an Anthropology degree (not in my school but I read it).

Fast Food worked in a similar way except you started with the part-time cashier jobs, worked up to manager and then district manager; in the early day's places like McDonald's would try to convince people like my very high IQ Cousin to quit college and go to "Hamburger U" to become a professional district manager/head officer person eventually (she declined).

Today that "leg up" into the business is almost gone, especially with the near-death of the small business owner and the extremely high costs of start anything up. These are also the people who have been destroyed by COVID and a lot of them won't be coming back.

Finally, back in the old days (the 1970s) again MEN were expected to be able to support families as waiters, high-end places often ONLY hired MEN as waiting staff and they were well paid and tended to get huge tips - because they had to support a family.

So they tended to get say 4 dollars an hour when the rest of us were getting 2.13 plus sometimes as much as 500 dollars a weekend (that would be like getting about 2,000 a weekend now) in tips, most of which were not really counted or taxed until the late 1970s.

But waitresses, even single Moms didn't get that kind of work (usually) the best they could hope for was a hostess in a fancy place (on salary) manager or the rare lady who could talk her way into cook training. There were many managers that refused to hire women cooks, but there were enough who did that it made sense for skilled and determined women to keep trying.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
One more quick point on older workers and cashiers - simple accommodations could keep a lot of people working into old age - in Europe cashiers in grocery stores SIT DOWN.

People bag their own groceries and have as long as supermarkets have been here, there is always a strong young man or woman running around helping the elderly, disabled, and those with tiny children to pack up and carry stuff out.

But we have cashiers up into their obvious 80s sometimes because - they can sit down...
 

anna43

Veteran Member
It will put many small businesses out of business. They will have to cut staff hours or just cut staff and eventually that trickles down to poor service so customers disappear. I'm sure most low wage earners would rather have a $10 per hour pay check than no pay check at all.
 

West

Senior
Can anyone figure out what the loaded labor rate will (approximately) be if the minimum goes to $15, or are there too many variables (which i think)?

At least $30hr, including cost to stay compliant.

And that's for minimum back labour work, like fast food, secretory, etc.. For jobs in construction closer to $45 hr.
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Unless I get a raise, I won't be able to afford to eat out as restaurants raise their prices to afford $15/hr help.

My first work around was to buy an air fryer, which makes awesome french fries and onion rings, two items I tend to buy from others. I'm also considering an Instant Pot.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who'll be placing most restaurants on the NO GO list. I will continue to buy muffins and coffee at the locally owned cafe. I support local businesses as much as I can.

Definitely get an IP, the price is really good right now especially for the 6 qt. Which air fryer do you have?
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
It will put many small businesses out of business. They will have to cut staff hours or just cut staff and eventually that trickles down to poor service so customers disappear. I'm sure most low wage earners would rather have a $10 per hour pay check than no pay check at all.


WHY do Demos have it in for Restaurants?

First, YOU ALL MUST CLOSE BECAUSE COVID

Now---We will DRIVE you all out of business with MINIMUM WAGES you can't AFFORD!


Don't demos and libs eat out?
 

Keric4

Contributing Member
I remember reading (b/c I was bored---I usually avoid it like the plague) Doonesbury one day, and the guy with the wife (or live-in girlfriend, knowing them) who has that short black hair that's always in her face were talking about minimum wage.

She was explaining to him that it "won't" adversely affect the economy or cause more unemployment, because

all the EXTRA money those employees will be making will be going right back into the economy in increased spending, and thus the companies will be making even MORE money, which means they'll be doing ever BETTER than before!

Liberal thinking is so much fun, ain't it?

Thats what my son said to me today when having this exact conversation. So me and a cashier working in a food truck, both making $15.00, on some days, we only bring in $300.00. He said that the customers would also be making $15.00 an hour, so would be able to buy more food. But we already charge $3.50 for a 16oz bottle of soda! Are they really gonna pay $5.00 for that same bottle over time? My boss is already talking about raising the prices on food.
 

TKO

Veteran Member
Anyone from Cali on the forum? Minimum wage there is 12 bucks. Right? How did that do for fast food places out there?
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Minimum wage in Australia is above $15 and has been that way for a long time.
What's the unemployment figures?
And--no insult intended--I am merely seeking info---is there incentive for the unemployed to seek work, or do they just go on some sort of govt support system, and if so how many (percentage) of the unemployed just stay on that?
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
We have unemployment here. It's around $300 a week for an adult. You live like a dog on it.

High wages for workers has been in for my entire life. However for the last ten or so years buying power has dropped
 

Thinwater

Firearms Manufacturer
$15/hr will mean nothing in a few years. Prices of everything goes up then reaches equilibrium again as he "New normal". The ones who get screwed are savers, their cash is work much less and people already retired, their income loses a huge amount of purchasing power.

The big winner is the .gov, their debt is priced in dollars that will be worth much less so the debt is less. The rising wage will push more and more into higher tax brackets, another huge win for the .gov. Us retired folks will be screwed.
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
i have refused to them

and when the attendant points me to them, I say

"you realise, thats your job..gone?"

Yes, most here locally do realize that it is their job that is now gone. Most are taking jobs as food pickers for home delivery and curbside shopping.
 

Farmgal

Senior Member
AND>>>>if you are a professional with 40 years of experience, the receptionists who are right out of high school, some of whom did not even graduate, and don't have a GED, will earn 2/3's of what you do, with a 6 or 7 year degree and graduate school!!
And employers will NOT give raises to us!!

I like what ioujc said. In my area (WV,) many professional level...college educated.....or skilled workers earn 18.00-25.00 bucks an hour and these jobs have tremendous responsibility. These people are going to be quite a disgruntled group.
 

BeeMan

Just buzzin along
I like what ioujc said. In my area (WV,) many professional level...college educated.....or skilled workers earn 18.00-25.00 bucks an hour and these jobs have tremendous responsibility. These people are going to be quite a disgruntled group.
So just “pull a John Gault”, that is if you can afford to take a $3/ hour pay cut, with the associated lowering of responsibility. I’m retired personally and see a $15/hr minimum wage, and the associated price increases, just another way to squeeze us “oldies” a bit. My retirement plan and life savings accounts aren’t going to get a raise. May have to see about applying for one of those $15/hr McDonalds jobs.
 

lonestar09

Veteran Member
I don’t think I have seen or read anything as to how fast this will take place. Will it be over 2 years like the last wage increase that is currently $7.25 an hour. Or will it take place literally overnight. That is the main concern business wise.
 

teedee

Veteran Member
My second job here in Texas I was told what my pay was going to be per month. I did some quick calculations and told them I would work for the same money as an hourly wage. They agreed. It was the only time I NEVER had to work overtime because it would have cost them. On a salary it was free to them.
 

zeker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
after (at 15) working for 3 months summer

at a farm(52 cows milking, 120 hogs) for $100 for the summer

I cant imagine $15/hr

my first 'real' job was 7 yrs furniture mover, for $2.00/hr

I was pretty buff, back in them daze

I NEVER give grief to minimum wage employees

(unless they go out of their way to be dicks)

I remember sitting with buddy and his wife]

and me stating "i think minimum wage jobs get what they pay for"

she was appalled cuz she was working 2 min wage jobs

even tho I agreed that you give the best you got

nobody should expect super service from min wage jobs
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Anyone from Cali on the forum? Minimum wage there is 12 bucks. Right? How did that do for fast food places out there?

Base line minimum wage in CA is $12/Hr....As I noted earlier, Santa Clara (like other cities and counties that mandate higher amounts) is $15.56/Hr right now.....


Schedule for California Minimum Wage rate 2017-2023.



DateMinimum Wage for Employers with 25 Employees or LessMinimum Wage for Employers with 26 Employees or More
January 1, 2017$10.00/hour$10.50/hour
January 1, 2018$10.50/hour$11.00/hour
January 1, 2019$11.00/hour$12.00/hour
January 1, 2020$12.00/hour$13.00/hour
January 1, 2021$13.00/hour$14.00/hour
January 1, 2022$14.00/hour$15.00/hour
January 1, 2023$15.00/hour
 

zeker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
So just “pull a John Gault”, that is if you can afford to take a $3/ hour pay cut, with the associated lowering of responsibility. I’m retired personally and see a $15/hr minimum wage, and the associated price increases, just another way to squeeze us “oldies” a bit. My retirement plan and life savings accounts aren’t going to get a raise. May have to see about applying for one of those $15/hr McDonalds jobs.

it really pisses me off to see an oldie

working at McD

knowing that they NEED that job cuz ..

circumstances dictate

my pollyanna view is

you work 40-45 yrs

and refresh into a liesurly liefstyle

not necessarily cruising the globe in your yacht

but.. comfortably relaxing after decades of drudgery and nose to the grindstone

comfortable is a state of mind

I am comforable with no running water

no tv

cook with propane

heat with woodstove

I am very comfortable

NOW.. if I ever found a partner who could accept these 'limitations' :shr:

I would be a happy camper
 

TKO

Veteran Member
Base line minimum wage in CA is $12/Hr....As I noted earlier, Santa Clara (like other cities and counties that mandate higher amounts) is $15.56/Hr right now.....

What is the end of it then? If these fast food places are paying 12/hr then are they still in business? Did they go under? Of course, if you look at Santa Clara, no one can afford 1MM home that's junk there. I was out there not long back and saw houses for 1MM dollars that were 2 bedrooms that needed a lot of work.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
What is the end of it then? If these fast food places are paying 12/hr then are they still in business? Did they go under? Of course, if you look at Santa Clara, no one can afford 1MM home that's junk there. I was out there not long back and saw houses for 1MM dollars that were 2 bedrooms that needed a lot of work.

At some point the music stops, the lights come on and there aren't any chairs....
 
Top