CHAT Security Cameras - Hide? Visible?

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NCGirl

Veteran Member
Last few days I think we had a guy casing our place or something. He has been driving slowly by multiple times and even stopped and tried to call the dogs over to the fence this morning. I saw it on camera and ran outside, got on my trusty golf cart shotgun across my lap and went his way calling the dogs back and he took off.

so, I decided to redo my security cameras that were installed 3 years ago due to growth of many of the trees I've planted. Lots of blind spots now all over the yard.

Finally my question, to hide or not to hide the cameras?

I've heard it both ways, better to hide them as cameras say this person has something worth stealing, or in plain sight as a deterrent?

My situation: we live on a loop road with very little traffic but am 1000' from a major road and my yard is visible. My yard is quite manicured, I have 3 acres fenced in with a 4-board wood fence around the property and have 5 outbuildings with lots of "stuff" inside worth stealing. I'm guessing we already look like a good location to hit minus the GSD's maybe. I'm thinking for us its probably better the cameras are out in plain view?

Thoughts or advice?
 
ioujc

ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
I have found that having the red glow from the night vision of my cameras have deterred much of the problems I was previously having with a DEMON child that had lived here with me for a number of years before she and her "father" were ejected>>>>long story, but she was attempting to kill my animals and did kill my two alpacas, two of my goats and attempted to get my dogs killed by destroying their pen so they would run out on the road.

I actually have had a LOT less traffic in and around my place after putting up the night vision cameras.

The ONE time I had further problems my electric was out for 2 days and they broke inot my garage looking for things to steal. Not much in there anymore....so they were disappointed.

I need to order new cameras because mine are about shot>>>which is UPSETTING, as they are only about two years old!!
That is the stuff I got from Lorex. This time I will go locally and then hopefully also be able to get HD in addition to night vision>>>
 
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Oldotaku

Veteran Member
In my opinion, it doesn't matter if you hide the cameras or not. On one of the CCTV systems I installed for the local grocery store, the cameras were fully visible, and I've got a copy of the (at the time) Mayor's kid coming in, high on pot, stealing a 2-liter bottle of pop and walking out. The sheriff asked me to provide a copy and provide Chain of Custody information on the video. If you're concerned about vandalism, you should hide the cameras, but otherwise I don't think most people care anymore (sad to say).
 
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NCGirl

Veteran Member
Repairman-Jack said:
You should be placing your cameras in locations that give you best view for DORI:
Detection, Observation, Recognition and Identification. Unless you are running higher end cameras or using an separate source for IR light at night that doesn't show up red an observant person will notice the locations.
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I have hikvision cameras (3 years old but great quality in metal housing) and separate IR lights. The IR lights make nighttime daytime. I should be able to identify anyone night or day no problem if they don't have a face covering. However, those IR lights are obvious if anyone looks and knows what they are.

But back to my original question, should I attempt to hide the cameras/lights or plain sight? I have a guy coming to redo them next week.
 
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NCGirl

Veteran Member
Oldotaku said:
In my opinion, it doesn't matter if you hide the cameras or not. On one of the CCTV systems I installed for the local grocery store, the cameras were fully visible, and I've got a copy of the (at the time) Mayor's kid coming in, high on pot, stealing a 2-liter bottle of pop and walking out. The sheriff asked me to provide a copy and provide Chain of Custody information on the video. If you're concerned about vandalism, you should hide the cameras, but otherwise I don't think most people care anymore (sad to say).
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That is sad. Thanks for sharing your experience.
 
Satanta

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
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Both-one by entrance with a sign. A sign up by the road and one camera above each sign that says "Smile! You're being Recorded."

Hidden ones elsewhere.

Maybe someone in a Ghillie suit outside fence near road to popup and say "HOWDY!"
 
Ping Jockey

Ping Jockey

Inactive
NCGirl said:
I have hikvision cameras (3 years old but great quality in metal housing) and separate IR lights. The IR lights make nighttime daytime. I should be able to identify anyone night or day no problem if they don't have a face covering. However, those IR lights are obvious if anyone looks and knows what they are.

But back to my original question, should I attempt to hide the cameras/lights or plain sight? I have a guy coming to redo them next week.
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To your original question: I’d do both. In areas that would be considered relatively high traffic and/or easily accessible I’d put them out there for everyone to see. This will give the honest folks something to think about and the dishonest folks some time to think about whether or not they want to take the chance. They’re out in the open, visible, and the likelihood they are being watched is not in doubt.

I’d put some hidden in areas that are blind spots or dead spaces where you have no ‘visible’ camera vision. Some nefarious folks may try and take a chance on sneaking past the visible cameras and not see the hidden.
 
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WalknTrot

Veteran Member
I believe in keeping any kind of cameras (recording or live feed) as unobtrusive as possible.

As I tried to get through to the "Brain Trust" at work...all it takes is a can of black spray-paint in the hands of the bad guys..
 
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NCGirl

Veteran Member
WalknTrot said:
I believe in keeping any kind of cameras (recording or live feed) as unobtrusive as possible.

As I tried to get through to the "Brain Trust" at work...all it takes is a can of black spray-paint in the hands of the bad guys..
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I certainly see your point, and it absolutely makes sense, but if someone is willing to climb my fence, walk 30-40' to get into the yard in order to spray paint them , I would already have gotten an alert and know they are there. I think I will certainly have some hidden too. Maybe even a few deer cams with storage onboard if someone does decide to go that route...

My goal is to stop someone from entering the yard in the first place. I do feel that visible cameras might stop that. Maybe.
 
kyrsyan

kyrsyan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
At least one visible in an area where it will be seen. Dad did security for years. A lot of times it is as much deterring burglary as it is getting the cops there if something happens. And if he was already approaching the dogs then he's either not afraid of dogs or has plans on how to handle/avoid them.
For me, this is when I'd place at least 2 with the ability to communicate and warn me if they sensed movement. So that if I was not at home I could respond and act like I was, while calling the cops and heading there.
And a call to the local cops, or a stop by for a chat with a copy of the last video, might help. If nothing else, they may step up patrols near you for a while. And if they recognize the person, they may go have a friendly chat. Either way, if there's further issues you will have established a precedent.
Dad had one the cops recognized that was ripping out his yard decorations at night and cutting up the lighting. The vid wasn't good enough for court but it was good enough for the cops to recognize who it was and put a heavy duty scare into them.
 
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Matt

Veteran Member
My cameras are mounted in plain sight and high enough that they cant be reached without a ladder. The common thief doesn't want to be caught on camera and will move on. Anyone brazen enough to ignore the cameras is a higher level of threat.

We have meth heads casing the neighborhood as well. I know who they are and where they live, as I walk the dog multiple times per week to keep up on the influx of shitheads. Retired folks need to be thinking long and hard before letting adult children and grandchildren move in to their homes....they will be lumped in with them come game time!

This is the new normal as people are out of work. Those meth habits are expensive!
 
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mostlyharmless

Veteran Member
I have cameras everywhere. It's a mix of visible and not-quite-so-visible. The visible ones are on the house, under the eaves, looking at the yard. The not quite so visible ones are strategically attached to trees around the property, looking back at the house. I don't think it's unusual to have a couple of cameras on a house these days, so most folks wouldn't think much of it. They're more than welcome to try and figure out ways to "beat" the house-mounted cams... because the less obvious ones on the trees will catch them long before.

I'm a huge fan of the Wyze camera platform... super cheap, pretty rugged, wifi. Their outdoor camera solution isn't quite ready for prime-time, but it is completely wireless (no power, it's USB recharged) so setting those up on a perimeter is super easy. Their indoor cameras work fine outside, as long as they're under something to keep them dry. At $20 each, it's a no-brainer, even if they last a year.
 
kyrsyan

kyrsyan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Or get some of the signs from one of the bigger local alarm companies.
And given the response of some folks I'm working with, those 11 bullet windchimes and smart ass gun/intruder signs might make some more cautious as well. (Going to be honest, I've been getting amused at some things lately.)
 
et2

et2

Has No Life - Lives on TB
We have IR cameras at every corner of the house. The camera’s are high enough someone would have trouble playing with them. I supplement them with motion lamps that light up the homes whole perimeter if anyone gets near us. I would suggest lighting as well for night. There are many solar ones that work pretty good. You can mount them anywhere that they get sun.

The one thing I notice is if the IR at night bounces (reflects) off a part of the house or trim ... it can diminish the camera quality. So keep that in mind when trying to hide them so not to be seen.

I second a trail camera especially down by the road adjusted so not every car sets it off.
 
CaryC

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Agree about the signs.

Neighbor has them on his fence, I have never seen any.
 
Repairman-Jack

Repairman-Jack

Veteran Member
NCGirl said:
I have hikvision cameras (3 years old but great quality in metal housing) and separate IR lights. The IR lights make nighttime daytime. I should be able to identify anyone night or day no problem if they don't have a face covering. However, those IR lights are obvious if anyone looks and knows what they are.

But back to my original question, should I attempt to hide the cameras/lights or plain sight? I have a guy coming to redo them next week.
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My personal opinion is not to hide them and have the cameras act as a potential layer of deterrence. Unless they are monitored 24x7 then cameras/footage are more of an after the fact, turning over video to PD or for use in a court case.


For good facial ID a good rule of thumb is about 8' for camera height (terrain and focal length of camera also come into play).

I prefer to let would be aholes know that there is a security system and CCTV in play, they should go find easier prey.

hikvision makes good stuff, a part of my system I have an older 2MP hikvision that covers the man door from the garage into our mudroom/basement
 
kyrsyan

kyrsyan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Repairman-Jack said:
Part of the reason having them high up can be an issue getting good "ID" footage
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I actually wasn't thinking ofnthat but good point. I was thinking they don't realize the cameras are there because they don't look up and see them. Most people think in 2d.
 
Ping Jockey

Ping Jockey

Inactive
Someone with nefarious intent to do a breaking and entering to rob will always be looking up, down, and around for anything that will expose them. For those whose intent it is to cause bodily harm and murder they don’t care. They are focused on what they are there to do and no amount of cameras, hidden or viewable, are going to stop them.

There are sneak thieves who only wish to steal things and make it as easy and hassle free as possible and there are rogue predators, although rare, who don’t care one wit.
 
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Walrus

Veteran Member
Dozdoats said:
Put fake cameras in visible accessible locations, hide the real ones as best you can. See what happens to the fake cameras.

I have found the little solar powered blinking pest deterrent LED lights spook people too.
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I think it was Harbor Freight who used to make those cheap fake cameras which would turn on a red blinking light when it detected movement. My son had one mounted under the eave looking down at his back door; even though I knew it was a fake, it always caused me to think I was being recorded. I don't know if they're made anymore but imagine they are.
 
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Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
I would suggest that cameras within out buildings and your home, if you are going to install them, be mostly covert. Clocks are a good place for them because people by habit will look directly at them. With the near universal use and availability of masks now with Covid, it may or may not help but it can't hurt.
 
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Matt

Veteran Member
We cant shoot thieves yet and insurance reimbursements wont be able to replace your preps from empty shelves!

In this transitionary phase of social order, It is best to avoid the situation whenever possible. For now, let the thieves know to move on to more willing victims. Our society is full of stupid and naieve. The time to hunt over bait will come later!

Remember the old saw, "an Ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure." And SunTsu's adage "For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."
 
mossyoak1985

mossyoak1985

Senior Member
exterior i want to be seen, interior i hide. if the ones they see keep them out, great. if they don't care about that i want a good i.d. for their family.

i second the solar light ideas. a five minute install eliminates a dark corner or the backside of a building.

if you get bored, break into your own house. don't cause damage or anything, but can you get to the house from the road without being seen? is there a spot you can hide if you need to? might sound stupid but it's kinda fun and you learn alot about your own property. the bad guys will do the same thing and probably have experience.
 
modernbeat

modernbeat

Dallas, TX
Like many others, I'd have a mix of cameras. Some visible for deterrence placed at the property entrance and near a main door. Preference to have them work, but dummies if you can't afford or configure them. Some additional hidden cameras to alert you with motion detection alarms. And some disguised for close-up identification.
 
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TerryK

TB Fanatic
The best way to set up security camera systems is with overlapping fields of view.
If someone tries to disable one cam they are recorded on the other cam, and vice versa.
My security cam system covers all sides of my house and every camera also has another camera in it's field of view.
Also have motion sensing floodlights all round the house.
After that is a hardwired alarm system on all doors and windows that activates indoor and outdoor sirens and lights.
Inside that is a little 20 pound barking machine cross between a schnauzer and poodle, (schnoodle)
Inside that is me. :lol: .
Trying to be sophisticated in hiding cams IMHO isn't that important.
The red glow from the infrared LEDs pretty much give them away.
Besides security cams are pretty normal and expected on a lot of homes nowadays.

According to cops, the most frequent time of breaking and entering is in the day when most everyone is at work, except for us retired people.
Most common point of entry, barring obvious dumb stuff left open by the owner, is back sliding doors. Most common method of entry in a concrete block through the glass.
Most burglars and thieves aren't that sophisticated.
Even dumb criminals know that night time break-ins are dangerous and likely to result in them being killed.

I also agree with Dennis about the stupid signs that say burglars will be shot, or "There's nothing here worth dying for". Never say anything about having guns. Posting such a sign is dumb.
 
NoDandy

NoDandy

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Satanta said:
Both-one by entrance with a sign. A sign up by the road and one camera above each sign that says "Smile! You're being Recorded."

Hidden ones elsewhere.

Maybe someone in a Ghillie suit outside fence near road to popup and say "HOWDY!"
Click to expand...
LOL !!!

Reminds me of a buddy of mine. He lived with his parents, whose house is in a very wooded location, dead end road. He was up early one morning. wearing camo fatigues, carrying his M-1A out on his morning run. Came up on a parked car near his mom & dads house. Turned out it was a young guy with a girl, smoking weed, the boy trying to make time. My buddy is a real big guy. He walks up, taps the window with the barrel of his M-1a, scared the pi$$ out of the boy & the girl. They admitted they had parked in the wrong place, and quickly left. Never came back.
 
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