ECON I will disobey Trump's Payroll Tax EO to defund social security

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
Actually, the problem with that is that George III was the King of England. Who made him the King of the colonies on the other side of the ocean? Did the colonists owe him literal servitude or did they flee to the new world to get out from under his authority? And once they were no longer under his authority were they then free to form new government? God could judge if they were in rebellion to the King of England or not and I wouldn't want to take that wager.
Let’s get real for a minute. Nations have had colonies for hundreds of years. Even today, the US has “colonies”: Puerto Rico, American Samoa, etc. These “colonies” are semi-independent but are arguably “run” by the US (That is, subject to US law.) So really, the point you’re trying to make could be said to be invalid.
 

Zahra

Veteran Member
BJ I don't think anyone of us gives a darn what you decide to do about your taxes one way or another, but I think each of us would agree that you have a very strange idea about what a "dictator" is, and I personally think you only posted that in order to be a troll. Mission accomplished - you stirred the pot up so now you can crawl back into bed and giggle.
 

Matt

Veteran Member
Romans 13 teaches obedience to authorities. Jesus said render taxes to Caesar. The 16th Amendment says it's legal. I'm a patriotic American who wants to pay his fair share of taxes on time, to keep the country running.
How would you have handled being a "good German citizen" in 1938 Germany. What if you were employed to operate the trains heading to Auschwitz? What if you were employed in the Amsterdam factory that was hiding Anne Frank.....aiding and abetting an enemy of the state is a serious violation of Roman's 13 as taught by statist hirlings! Fortunately some good patriot dropped a dime on her and she went to the camps, God's will done according to some.
 

Panner

Veteran Member
All I can say BJ is that you really hate Pres. Trump and don't give a crap about people trying to get by. If the Dims did what he did you would be saying how great it is. Give me a break.
 

FROG

Contributing Member
I must be the odd one because I liked Farmer John. His positions made me think and dig deeper. I disagreed most of the time but he was spot on at other times.
 

nebb

Veteran Member
Well, here in Wa state Inslee likes to think of himself as a king......and to quote the hound on GOT.......”fk the king”
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
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The only reason he’s gone is because he didn’t (or only rarely) post his opinion. He posted DNC talking points and essays. Then, he never stayed on the thread to defend them. Further, he was caught bragging on a liberal forum about “educating the knuckle-draggers on a conservative forum.” You can like him all you want. I won’t stand for that crap here.
 

Lone_Hawk

Resident Spook
Romans 13 teaches obedience to authorities. Jesus said render taxes to Caesar. The 16th Amendment says it's legal. I'm a patriotic American who wants to pay his fair share of taxes on time, to keep the country running.

You are a Patriotic American.... yeah... right... so is Nancy Piglosi...

I work in an industry where all the laws and bull shit I have to deal with are un-Constitutional. However, I obey the law because I have to to stay in business. The actual executive order hasn't been published as of the last time I looked. Until thene I will wait to see what it actually says.
I am so glad members have corrected the thread drift and we are now focused on Romans 13. I'm not going to get into the Bible/slavery issue. Let's just look at Romans 13:4 which says in part: "For he is God's servant to do you good . . ." That is what I refer to as the "King George exception." We are to obey authorities so long as they are doing us "good."

When St. Paul wrote his letter to the Romans, Nero was persecuting and executing Christians; he blamed them for the fire which destroyed a large portion of the city. His predecessor Claudius had likewise persecuted Christians. The Holy Spirit guided Paul to write this letter because if Christians had actually rebelled (with violence etc.) against Rome, they would have been obliterated and Christianity would have struggled to endure. For the survival of the church, Paul encouraged obedience to the Roman rule. Nero wasn't doing "good" but open rebellion meant destruction. The early Christians did rebel in their own non-violent way, by meeting and worshipping in secret. There are examples in the Bible of disobedience to authority, e.g. Joshua 2:1-7 (Rahab & Joshua’s spies vs. the king of Jericho), Daniel 3:1-18 (Shadrach, Meshach & Abednego vs. Nebuchadnezar), Daniel 6:6-14 (Daniel vs. Darius), 1 Kings 21:20-25 (Elijah vs. Ahab & Jezebel), Luke 3:19 (John the Baptist vs. Herod) .

On my I-pod, I have a collection of songs from the American revolution. One song's refrain says "We have no king but God." For Christians, God's law is supreme. For Americans, the supreme law of the land is the US Constitution. According to Romans 13 we are subject to the US Constitution as our ultimate earthly authority. All Americans, including President Trump, are subject to the Constitution. Article One Section eight says in pertinent part: "The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes . . ."

President Trump is subverting Congress's authority by suspending taxes. He is acting contrary to the supreme law of the land. The government needs payroll taxes for the essential Social Security and Medicare programs. Trump has made no secret that he would like to permanently do away with Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes if he is re-elected. Of course that would eliminate those programs. Trump is acting contrary to the the supreme law of the land. Trump has become King George III.

Why don't you do like I am going to do with my business and wait till the Executive Order is published and I can actually read what it says before you start spewing your hate of President Trump? Give it a friggin' break will ya'? Now, my inclination at this point, without having read the actual document, is that I will continue to collect taxes and pay them. This is a business decision I have made because the actual FACTS are not known at this time. Until the FACTS are known, I can not make any other business decision. As I have to run payroll for my employees in the morning, that is the prudent thing to do. Not run around with your hair on fire confirming to all who read this that you are.... well, I will leave that up to their determination...
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Let’s get real for a minute. Nations have had colonies for hundreds of years. Even today, the US has “colonies”: Puerto Rico, American Samoa, etc. These “colonies” are semi-independent but are arguably “run” by the US (That is, subject to US law.) So really, the point you’re trying to make could be said to be invalid.

Doesn’t really matter what you or I think of it. The subject is whether or not the colonists were in rebellion to God by resisting the King of England’s decree thousands of miles from England. I don’t know how God viewed the resistance of the colonists to the King’s decree. What I do know is God blessed their efforts as well as the nation they founded. Good enough for me.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
I'm self-employed (Subchapter S Corporation). My current meager income is subject to withholding for Social Security, Medicare and federal income taxes. When I do payroll I electronically make a deposit into the US Treasury. I intend to continue all payroll withholding. I believe the dictator Trump has violated the US Constitution by his executive order to defer payroll taxes. Tax laws and regulations are promulgated by Congress not the President. From a practical standpoint, it would be too much of a hassle to not pay the taxes as normal and I don't want a big, lump-sum tax bill when the EO ends. I just hope the US Treasury continues accepting my tax payments. I suspect they will.

Sorry to say this post is dumb on several levels.

a) You are NOT disobeying, you are simply choosing not to participate. This is your choice.
b) When you start with "dictator Trump" everything else is going to be ignored.
c) It is not a hassle to pay or not to pay the taxes. It is simply a line item on the EFTPS system.
d) Since when has the government ever refused money?
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
There is a provision in the Tax Laws which enables the President to defray the collection of payroll taxes in an emergency, the dummies in Congress passed the law and then they forgot what they passed. Typical morons not reading the bills they vote for.
That is what I am beginning to understand a deferral only....
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
OK, but how does defering the taxes until the end of the year help out the rank and file when they are still due at the end of the year? You still gotta save that money up.
It does not help the rank and file unless they are a business. It should (based upon my understanding) allow the business to continue deducting the money as required by law from paychecks, but allow the business to not pay the monies owed until a later time. This is intended to keep many alive when they would normally go under due to lack of cash flow.

A bit dangerous in my mind unless they defer it several years.....
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
It's a vary good thing. That the tax paying citizes realize the blood monies taken from them. It seems to me when the government takes just a little every payday the low informed and math challenged some how don't feel the theft. However in a lump sum it's OMG!
The tax paying citizes will never see a change. This is a behind the scenes change only.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Trump did not want to do this.

I think that he knows that it is unconstitutional, but he is calling the Communists bluff.

If they sue him.....their black hats will be on display for all to see. If they let it slide, Trump is a hero.

These are strange times. We are in the midst of a continued Communist coup d etat. I never thought that I would applaud an unconstitutional act......but I am.

Soros (via Schumer & Pelosi) is a poor adversary.
I believe it is allowed by law, but only a deferment and not the elimination of the tax. So Trump can delay you paying for a period of time.
 

IJT

Veteran Member
I believe it is allowed by law, but only a deferment and not the elimination of the tax. So Trump can delay you paying for a period of time.
Trump can next year allow the deferment to be permanent or Biden if elected,. could be the bad guy for demanding payment. Trump may have put the Democrats in a box.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Trump can next year allow the deferment to be permanent or Biden if elected,. could be the bad guy for demanding payment. Trump may have put the Democrats in a box.
I am not 100% versed in the law that allows it, but good it possible.
 

Sandcastle76

Senior Member
PPP funds. PPP is (IIRC) “payroll protection program.” PPE is “personal protective equipment.”

The PPP loans REQUIRE that the companies pay their employees.
Sorry about the incorrect abbreviation.. I know the difference just an error on my part
 
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TerryK

TB Fanatic
The Dimocrats outsmarted again by the man "Who will NEVER become president"
I LOL again!

Southside
This is true like it's never been true before.
The Pres giving an additional $300 in unemployment benefits which will only be paid if the states kick in an additional $100 is brilliant for 2 reasons.
1st Pelosi won't dare sue in court to stop this because it'll put the Dems on record as the party that stopped giving enhanced unemployment to needy unemployed folks. Trump got the jump on Pelosi before she could lay blame on the Repubs for stalling the deal.
2nd Since Liberal Dem states will be the likely ones to oppose this, they will alienate their own unemployed people against them. Again Trump gets the jump on Dems before they can lay the blame on Repubs. The Dem states will somehow find the additional $100 bucks. :lol:

The deferment of SS tax also can be a win for the Pres.
Right now everyone was worried if they would have a huge SS tax bill due in January.
BUT, the Pres has already tweeted that IF he is re=elected he will attempt to get the due SS tax forgiven or cancelled.
Forgiving taxes is something the Dems would never think of doing.
Basically the President has told the American people, "Elect me and I'll get the 5 months of 15% taxes on your salary forgiven. Elect Biden and you have a huge tax bill due even before Biden would assume office.

Pelosi and the Dems overplayed their hand in refusing to negotiate and Trump got the jump on them before they could blame the whole thing on the Repubs.
Well played Mr Trump! This is the first time I've seen such a masterful end run around the Dems, to put them in the spot of either agreeing with the President or having to play the bad guys in this economic crisis..
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
This is true like it's never been true before.
The Pres giving an additional $300 in unemployment benefits which will only be paid if the states kick in an additional $100 is brilliant for 2 reasons.
1st Pelosi won't dare sue in court to stop this because it'll put the Dems on record as the party that stopped giving enhanced unemployment to needy unemployed folks. Trump got the jump on Pelosi before she could lay blame on the Repubs for stalling the deal.
2nd Since Liberal Dem states will be the likely ones to oppose this, they will alienate their own unemployed people against them. Again Trump gets the jump on Dems before they can lay the blame on Repubs. The Dem states will somehow find the additional $100 bucks. :lol:

The deferment of SS tax also can be a win for the Pres.
Right now everyone was worried if they would have a huge SS tax bill due in January.
BUT, the Pres has already tweeted that IF he is re=elected he will attempt to get the due SS tax forgiven or cancelled.
Forgiving taxes is something the Dems would never think of doing.
Basically the President has told the American people, "Elect me and I'll get the 5 months of 15% taxes on your salary forgiven. Elect Biden and you have a huge tax bill due even before Biden would assume office.

Pelosi and the Dems overplayed their hand in refusing to negotiate and Trump got the jump on them before they could blame the whole thing on the Repubs.
Well played Mr Trump! This is the first time I've seen such a masterful end run around the Dems, to put them in the spot of either agreeing with the President or having to play the bad guys in this economic crisis..
:applaud:
 

The Cub

Behold, I am coming soon.




Mark R. Levin

@marklevinshow


1. President Trump had no choice but to issue the Executive Orders this afternoon, and given that Obama instituted DACA without legislation and John Roberts seemed okay with that, the president's DOJ will have strong grounds on which to defend them.
8:18 PM · Aug 8, 2020·Twitter for Android

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Mark R. Levin

@marklevinshow

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20h

Replying to
@marklevinshow
2. But why would the Democrats and their media propagandists oppose the Executive Orders since they supported Obama's executive action on behalf of illegal aliens, and President Trump's orders actually assist tens of millions of American citizens.






Mark R. Levin

@marklevinshow

·
20h

3. The president, and the American people, are sick and tired of Pelosi, Schumer, and the media playing games with their lives and their families, and they are sick and tired of legislative blackmail by a wildly radical House speaker from San Francisco.











Mark R. Levin

@marklevinshow

·
20h

4. We live in different times, where we are fighting for our survival as a free and prosperous people against a loathsome enemy from within. Kudos to the President, the only person in Washington who actually wants to get things done on behalf of the people.
 

raven

TB Fanatic
Got an IRA? That is deferred taxes.
401K? Deferred taxes
People and Business hire CPAs and spend a butt load of money to defer taxes.
They do it to accumulate wealth.

If you are not interested in accumulating wealth,
file Schedule SE and write a check
 

The Cub

Behold, I am coming soon.
I believe it is allowed by law, but only a deferment and not the elimination of the tax. So Trump can delay you paying for a period of time.

I believe you are correct on that one point. You will recall that he signed 4 EOs, each on a different topic...and to prevent a judicial judgement (think Federal District Obama Judges) from sinking the whole ship with one shot.....i.e. one identified "flaw".


President Trump Signs Four Executive Orders Providing Middle Class Economic Relief Due to COVID-19…

Posted on August 8, 2020 by sundance

Today President Trump announced four executive orders targeted to help the majority of Americans as democrats in congress refuse to help.



Democrats in DC are holding middle-class economic relief hostage so they can force massive taxpayer bailouts on Blue states. To avoid the loggerhead battle, President Trump is using his emergency authority via executive orders.

1) The first executive order signed is a payroll tax holiday for Americans making less than $100,000 [Details Here] President Trump stated: “If I’m victorious, November 3rd, I plan to forgive these taxes and make permanent cuts to the payroll tax and to make them more permanent.”

2) The second executive order is directed to “the Department of Housing and Urban Development, HHS and CDC, to make sure renters and homeowners can stay in their homes.“ [Details Here]

3) “The third executive action I’m taking today will also provide additional support for Americans who are unemployed, due to the China virus. Under the CARES act I proudly signed I expanded unemployment benefits into law.” Benefits will be $400/week. [Details Here]

4) The fourth XO is a “directive providing relief to student loan borrowers.” The policy will be extended through the end of the year. [Details Here]

President Trump also said he will also be looking at income and capital gains tax cuts. “So we’re going to be looking at income tax, we’re going to be looking at capital gains tax cuts on both and maybe substantial. And we’ll be reporting back fairly shortly on that, it’s big news big news but very important,” Trump said.


 

Craftypatches

Veteran Member
I believe you are correct on that one point. You will recall that he signed 4 EOs, each on a different topic...and to prevent a judicial judgement (think Federal District Obama Judges) from sinking the whole ship with one shot.....i.e. one identified "flaw".


President Trump Signs Four Executive Orders Providing Middle Class Economic Relief Due to COVID-19…

Posted on August 8, 2020 by sundance

Today President Trump announced four executive orders targeted to help the majority of Americans as democrats in congress refuse to help.



Democrats in DC are holding middle-class economic relief hostage so they can force massive taxpayer bailouts on Blue states. To avoid the loggerhead battle, President Trump is using his emergency authority via executive orders.

1) The first executive order signed is a payroll tax holiday for Americans making less than $100,000 [Details Here] President Trump stated: “If I’m victorious, November 3rd, I plan to forgive these taxes and make permanent cuts to the payroll tax and to make them more permanent.”

2) The second executive order is directed to “the Department of Housing and Urban Development, HHS and CDC, to make sure renters and homeowners can stay in their homes.“ [Details Here]

3) “The third executive action I’m taking today will also provide additional support for Americans who are unemployed, due to the China virus. Under the CARES act I proudly signed I expanded unemployment benefits into law.” Benefits will be $400/week. [Details Here]

4) The fourth XO is a “directive providing relief to student loan borrowers.” The policy will be extended through the end of the year. [Details Here]

President Trump also said he will also be looking at income and capital gains tax cuts. “So we’re going to be looking at income tax, we’re going to be looking at capital gains tax cuts on both and maybe substantial. And we’ll be reporting back fairly shortly on that, it’s big news big news but very important,” Trump said.


this just totally confuses me with number 1, so if elected he is going to stop payroll taxes that fund our social security? I saw a post on Facebook stating that and I cannot lose my social security as many others cannot! Are the older people suppose to die?
 
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