Fallout knows no borders....
INTL India - China border crisis (Main Thread)
- Thread starter lonestar09
- Start date
Fallout knows no borders....
Silverfox
TWTFS
Yes, I'm sure Sun Tzu's Art of War has nothing to do with their strategy. Seriously, I can't imagine the ChiComms don't have a plan and it likely is lifted from the pages of that old book.
Walrus Whisperer
Hope in chains...
As Monk would say "wipe, wipe, WIPE!"
lonestar09
Veteran Member
China says troops could be deployed to border with India ‘within hours’
Soldiers and equipment transported from central province of Hubei to an unspecified location in northwest, according to state media.
www.scmp.com
China mobilises thousands of troops, armoured vehicles near border with India
Soldiers and equipment transported from central province of Hubei to an unspecified location in northwest, according to state media
Footage of drill aired the same day top generals from the two sides held talks in a bid to defuse stand-off that began in early May
Topic | China-India relations
Kinling Lo
Published: 9:00pm, 8 Jun, 2020
Updated: 11:04pm, 8 Jun, 2020
China has mobilised thousands of paratroopers, armoured vehicles and equipment in a military drill, saying they could be deployed “within hours” to the border with India in the Himalayas, where tensions have again flared
.
The soldiers and armoured vehicles were transported from the central province of Hubei to an unspecified location in China’s northwest plateau, thousands of kilometres away, in “just a few hours”, according to state media reports over the weekend.
Footage of troops boarding civilian planes and trains in the “manoeuvre operation” was aired on state broadcaster CCTV on Saturday, the same day top generals from China and India held talks in Moldo
, on the Chinese side of the unmarked boundary known as the Line of Actual Control.
They were trying to defuse a stand-off that began in early May, with border troops engaging in fist fights and stone-throwing in the Galwan River valley between Ladakh, in Indian-administered Kashmir, and Chinese-administered Aksai Chin.
State media aired footage of troops boarding civilian planes to get from Hubei province to the unspecified location thousands of kilometres away. Photo: Weibo
State media aired footage of troops boarding civilian planes to get from Hubei province to the unspecified location thousands of kilometres away. Photo: Weibo
Major Colonel Mao Lei, head of a PLA Air Force brigade training department that led the operation in the northwest, said it had made “significant breakthroughs” in terms of the scale of mobilised troops and how they were transported.
“[Using civilian transport] substantially expanded our means of transporting forces and increased efficiency in manoeuvring an entire organisation of troops,” Mao told CCTV.
The report did not give their location, but an article published in state tabloid Global Times on Sunday directly linked the People’s Liberation Army drill with the border tensions.
The latest flare-up in the long-running dispute has seen Chinese state media accuse India of “illegally constructing defence facilities across the border into Chinese territory in the Galwan Valley region”. Indian media reports have meanwhile quoted military sources as saying that Chinese forces had entered Indian territory by 1km to 3km.
Both nations have attempted to play down the stand-off. Indian media reported that talks between the two sides’ military commanders on Saturday were “inconclusive”, while India’s Ministry of External Affairs said they were held in a “cordial and positive atmosphere”.
On Monday, Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said the situation was “stable, under control and mutual in terms of solving problems”. “We have reached one consensus – that both sides have to carry out the previous consensus made by the top leadership so as to avoid escalating a disagreement into a dispute,” Hua said. “We have to make efforts to maintain stability and peace in our border regions and create a healthy atmosphere for our bilateral relations to
Fears of extended stand-off on India-China border despite talks
The high-level military meeting came after Indian and Chinese foreign ministry officials held a videoconference to discuss the border tensions on Friday, with Beijing saying afterwards that the two sides would ensure relations
stayed on track.
Border tensions between China and India have simmered for years. The countries share a 3,488km (2,167-mile) unmarked boundary and fought a frontier war in 1962, with regular flare-ups since then – though no shot has been fired since the 1970s. The last major stand-off ran for more than 70 days at the Doklam plateau in 2017, triggered by Chinese road-building in the area, which is claimed by China and Indian ally Bhutan. The following year, China and India pledged to set up a hotline between the two militaries in a bid to strengthen communication at the border.
China-India dispute highlights both sides’ growing military presence at border
4 Jun 2020
Li Li, a South Asia specialist at Tsinghua University in Beijing, said she expected more military posturing from both sides.
“The military deployment from both countries to the region will not ease before this border issue is resolved,” Li said. “[These] competitive capacity-building activities will continue.”
China said troops could be deployed “within hours” to the border region. Photo: Weibo
China said troops could be deployed “within hours” to the border region. Photo: Weibo
Collin Koh, a research fellow with the Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, based at the Nanyang Technological University in Singapore, said the PLA had been “training for this for many years” so it was no surprise they could mobilise troops to the area so quickly.
He said India had also sought to improve mobility of reinforcements in recent years, including by building more border road networks and railway systems, advanced landing grounds and helipads.
“The Chinese would be well aware of that, so it’s important for them to stress upon their Indian counterparts that they are able to mobilise more reinforcements more quickly,” Koh said.
PLA holds high altitude exercise as China-India border tensions continue
3 Jun 2020
He added that Beijing could also be sending a broader message by deploying troops from Hubei – the initial epicentre of the coronavirus pandemic
.
“[This could] therefore be seen as signalling to more than India alone, to the international community – including perceived adversaries, especially the US – that the PLA remains combat ready and unaffected by the pandemic,” Koh said.
Posted for fair use.....
www.nzherald.co.nz
WORLD
Dangerous face-off between nuclear nations: China ready to deploy troops 'within hours'
9 Jun, 2020 3:26pm
news.com.au
By: Benedict Brook
China has said thousands of troops, armoured vehicles and artillery could be deployed "within hours" as a conflict over a contested border between the nation and India, two nuclear powers, heats up.
Over recent days, Chinese media has aired arresting pictures of civilian planes full of soldiers in fatigues holding guns. Hundreds more solders were seen boarding trains.
Ostensibly, it's all part of a military exercise to see how quickly China's military machine can crank up. However, the troops have reportedly been sent within easy reach of the mountainous border with India where clashes have flared.
Hong Kong's South China Morning Post reported the so called "manoeuvre operation" by the Chinese People's Liberation Army was completed in "just a few hours" and saw troops whisked from the country's central Hubei province. They were sent to an unspecified location in the nation's northwest.
/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/SWXU633ZKNCBLEWDU3SCGJP2CU.jpeg "Chinese state media has shown images of a civilian plane full of troops as part of a drill that coincided with an ongoing border conflict with India. Photo / Weibo, CCTV")
Chinese state media has shown images of a civilian plane full of troops as part of a drill that coincided with an ongoing border conflict with India. Photo / Weibo, CCTV
India and China have been facing off against one another along a disputed border known as the Line of Actual Control (LAC).
The demarcation line separates Indian-controlled territory from Chinese-controlled territory and was formed after the 1962 Sino-Indian War that China won decisively.
The disputed Himalayan border was the main cause of the war. Now a new conflict has erupted.
Last month at a mountain pass of strategic importance, the two sides began dropping stones and also physically beat each other, according to Chinese media. At least four Indian and seven Chinese soldiers were injured.
The Chinese military responded by erecting shelters, building concrete bunkers and setting up camps in the strategic high-ground. This is in areas that had been under Indian control. The move reportedly caught India by surprise.
Defence Minister Rajnath Singh said "large numbers" of Chinese troops had crossed into India's side of the LAC.
Related articles:
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9 Jun, 2020 2:05pm
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8 Jun, 2020 6:27am
3 minutes to read
/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/D4CYYCAKO5EKVAQ5TPF3HWO2TY.png "This combination of two satellite photos at an air base in Tibet, China (close to India) shows development around the airport. Photo / AP")
This combination of two satellite photos at an air base in Tibet, China (close to India) shows development around the airport. Photo / AP
India responded by rushing troops to the Galwan River Valley in northern Ladakh and the Pangong Lake in central Ladakh.
China's latest move coincides with talks aimed at defusing the crisis between the two nations, which both possess stockpiles of nuclear weapons.
Indian officials crossed to the Chinese side of the line at the weekend to try to plot a route out of the crisis. However, Indian media reported it could be a long, drawn-out process with "hard-nosed negotiations".
India is demanding that Chinese troops return to their side of the LAC and destroy the hastily built bunkers it has erected north of a mountainous lake called Pangong Tso.
Both sides agreed the dispute should be resolved peacefully but India also said the weekend's talks were "inconclusive".
CIVILIAN PLANES
The PLA's Major Colonel Mao Lei reportedly said the drill had made "significant breakthroughs" in terms of the scale of mobilised troops and how they were transported.
"[Using civilian transport] substantially expanded our means of transporting forces and increased efficiency in manoeuvring an entire organisation of troops," Mao told Chinese television station CCTV.
Chinese Communist Party mouthpiece the Global Times has linked the drill to the border tensions with India.
AUSTRALIA INDIA DEFENCE PACT
At the weekend, the Global Times noted that India and Australia had signed a new defence pact and suggested it was part of an effort by New Delhi to put pressure on Beijing to step back from the border region.
READ MORE:
• Standoff between Chinese and Indian armed forces
• George Floyd death: Why China and Russia are celebrating US protests
• Covid 19 coronavirus: China delayed releasing data while WHO heaped praise
• Comment: Why the US could no longer win a war against China
"Some analysts regard this move as a joint effort between India and Australia to counter China," the newspaper wrote.
"Whereas this accord is set against the backdrop of escalating border tensions between China and India, this intensifies friction between Beijing and Canberra."
It said the India–Australia defence agreement could bring a significant strategic change to the region.
"Such changes will shape a confrontational atmosphere in the region, jeopardising peace and stability."
BORDER FLARE UPS
China and India have regularly come to blows over their 3400km-long and infuriatingly ill-defined border.
Remote and treacherous, these disrupted areas are home to few people. But any moves to tame the areas - such as the building of a road to ease access - immediately risk a conflict.
/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/DTYEAHCB7FBBPG54QSQSPUKJFU.jpg "South China Morning Post reported the")
South China Morning Post reported the "manoeuvre operation" by the Chinese People's Liberation Army was completed in "just a few hours". Photo / Getty Images
Both sides are hugely sensitive to any kind of infrastructure works in the disputed areas. The fear is that the more either nation builds roads and fortifications on its side of the LAC, the more grounds it will have to assert its claim to that territory.
While it's not clear what kicked off the latest flare-up, it's thought China was none-too-pleased by Indian road-building efforts on the side of the LAC administered by New Delhi.
Three years ago, the countries also came to blows in another border region – and also over a road. But that time it was a road built by China on its own – disputed – side of the LAC.
In early June 2017, China began building a new road leading to the Doklam plateau, a disputed area close to both the Indian frontier and that of the tiny mountain kingdom of Bhutan.
China accused Indian troops stationed in Bhutan – which has only a small army and relies militarily on India – of straying across the frontier to prevent the road's construction. That conflict took 70 days to defuse.
China has said it's ready to deploy troops 'within hours' as border dispute hots up
Image of a plane full of gun-wielding troops has emerged as two nuclear states face off.
www.nzherald.co.nz
WORLD
Dangerous face-off between nuclear nations: China ready to deploy troops 'within hours'
9 Jun, 2020 3:26pm
news.com.au
By: Benedict Brook
China has said thousands of troops, armoured vehicles and artillery could be deployed "within hours" as a conflict over a contested border between the nation and India, two nuclear powers, heats up.
Over recent days, Chinese media has aired arresting pictures of civilian planes full of soldiers in fatigues holding guns. Hundreds more solders were seen boarding trains.
Ostensibly, it's all part of a military exercise to see how quickly China's military machine can crank up. However, the troops have reportedly been sent within easy reach of the mountainous border with India where clashes have flared.
Hong Kong's South China Morning Post reported the so called "manoeuvre operation" by the Chinese People's Liberation Army was completed in "just a few hours" and saw troops whisked from the country's central Hubei province. They were sent to an unspecified location in the nation's northwest.
India and China have been facing off against one another along a disputed border known as the Line of Actual Control (LAC).
The demarcation line separates Indian-controlled territory from Chinese-controlled territory and was formed after the 1962 Sino-Indian War that China won decisively.
The disputed Himalayan border was the main cause of the war. Now a new conflict has erupted.
Last month at a mountain pass of strategic importance, the two sides began dropping stones and also physically beat each other, according to Chinese media. At least four Indian and seven Chinese soldiers were injured.
The Chinese military responded by erecting shelters, building concrete bunkers and setting up camps in the strategic high-ground. This is in areas that had been under Indian control. The move reportedly caught India by surprise.
Defence Minister Rajnath Singh said "large numbers" of Chinese troops had crossed into India's side of the LAC.
Related articles:
BUSINESS Behind China's Twitter campaign, a murky supporting chorus
9 Jun, 2020 2:05pm
9 minutes to read
WORLD India stunned by China's seizure: Standoff between their armed forces
8 Jun, 2020 6:27am
3 minutes to read
India responded by rushing troops to the Galwan River Valley in northern Ladakh and the Pangong Lake in central Ladakh.
China's latest move coincides with talks aimed at defusing the crisis between the two nations, which both possess stockpiles of nuclear weapons.
Indian officials crossed to the Chinese side of the line at the weekend to try to plot a route out of the crisis. However, Indian media reported it could be a long, drawn-out process with "hard-nosed negotiations".
India is demanding that Chinese troops return to their side of the LAC and destroy the hastily built bunkers it has erected north of a mountainous lake called Pangong Tso.
Both sides agreed the dispute should be resolved peacefully but India also said the weekend's talks were "inconclusive".
CIVILIAN PLANES
The PLA's Major Colonel Mao Lei reportedly said the drill had made "significant breakthroughs" in terms of the scale of mobilised troops and how they were transported.
"[Using civilian transport] substantially expanded our means of transporting forces and increased efficiency in manoeuvring an entire organisation of troops," Mao told Chinese television station CCTV.
Chinese Communist Party mouthpiece the Global Times has linked the drill to the border tensions with India.
AUSTRALIA INDIA DEFENCE PACT
At the weekend, the Global Times noted that India and Australia had signed a new defence pact and suggested it was part of an effort by New Delhi to put pressure on Beijing to step back from the border region.
READ MORE:
• Standoff between Chinese and Indian armed forces
• George Floyd death: Why China and Russia are celebrating US protests
• Covid 19 coronavirus: China delayed releasing data while WHO heaped praise
• Comment: Why the US could no longer win a war against China
"Some analysts regard this move as a joint effort between India and Australia to counter China," the newspaper wrote.
"Whereas this accord is set against the backdrop of escalating border tensions between China and India, this intensifies friction between Beijing and Canberra."
It said the India–Australia defence agreement could bring a significant strategic change to the region.
"Such changes will shape a confrontational atmosphere in the region, jeopardising peace and stability."
BORDER FLARE UPS
China and India have regularly come to blows over their 3400km-long and infuriatingly ill-defined border.
Remote and treacherous, these disrupted areas are home to few people. But any moves to tame the areas - such as the building of a road to ease access - immediately risk a conflict.
Both sides are hugely sensitive to any kind of infrastructure works in the disputed areas. The fear is that the more either nation builds roads and fortifications on its side of the LAC, the more grounds it will have to assert its claim to that territory.
While it's not clear what kicked off the latest flare-up, it's thought China was none-too-pleased by Indian road-building efforts on the side of the LAC administered by New Delhi.
Three years ago, the countries also came to blows in another border region – and also over a road. But that time it was a road built by China on its own – disputed – side of the LAC.
In early June 2017, China began building a new road leading to the Doklam plateau, a disputed area close to both the Indian frontier and that of the tiny mountain kingdom of Bhutan.
China accused Indian troops stationed in Bhutan – which has only a small army and relies militarily on India – of straying across the frontier to prevent the road's construction. That conflict took 70 days to defuse.
naegling62
Veteran Member
Thank God we have Canada to our north. When you look at history and current boarder problems in the the world, our mutual boarder is probably one of the most hospitable that has ever existed.
jward
passin' thru
..'Ell if I know, this is the third or fourth article I've seen in as many days telling me that tensions have cooled and the intensity is ebbing. :: shrug :: ..article posted in it's entirety on the W.o.W. thread...
Ajai Shukla
@ajaishukla
8m
Army "sources" claims on Chinese intrusions: 1. Both sides have "retreated a bit" since the talks. 2. More meetings in next 10 days with PLA, one today. 3. No int failure, have stopped PLA "quickly and strongly". 4. Will continue building Shyok-DBO road.
View: https://twitter.com/ajaishukla/status/1270547047469297666?s=20
Ajai Shukla
@ajaishukla
8m
Army "sources" claims on Chinese intrusions: 1. Both sides have "retreated a bit" since the talks. 2. More meetings in next 10 days with PLA, one today. 3. No int failure, have stopped PLA "quickly and strongly". 4. Will continue building Shyok-DBO road.
View: https://twitter.com/ajaishukla/status/1270547047469297666?s=20
danielboon
TB Fanatic
Report claims Chinese Army build-up along border from Ladakh to Arunachal; India beefs up deployment
India
The Indian Army has reportedly rushed in troops in fighting formations to forward posts in Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh to prevent the possibility of any misadventure by China.
An Indian Army soldier stands guard along the LAC. | Photo Credit: PTI
KEY HIGHLIGHTS
“The Chinese army has done military build-up not only just in Ladakh but also in other sectors including Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh wherever it shares borders with us. The build-up includes troops and heavy weaponry which are deployed in rear positions,” news agency ANI quoted government sources as saying.
The sources further stated that the Indian Army too rushed its troops in fighting formations to the forward posts in the aforementioned sectors to prevent the possibility of any misadventure by China.
RELATED NEWS
India, China to continue military talks to discuss eastern Ladakh dispute
India, China hold Major General-level talks as discussions continue on Eastern Ladakh standoff
The Chinese have walked in and taken our territory in Ladakh; PM Modi absolutely silent: Rahul Gandhi
“The reserve brigades of a Corps with an area of responsibility including Himachal Pradesh have gone up to the Ladakh sector to provide backup and cushion to the 3 Infantry Division based in Karu there. Additional fighting formations have also been moved forward to the border locations in Himachal Pradesh where Chinese choppers had shown up in April,” the report claimed.
In Uttarakhand, supplementary troops have been deployed in Harsil-Barahoti-Nelang Valley and nearby sectors after reports claimed that Chinese choppers had hovered around before the build-up and Chinese foot soldiers have been spotted patrolling the area.
India and China have been at loggerheads for over a month now ever since the Chinese People’s Liberation Army began building up along the LAC in the first week of May near Ladakh and Sikkim (Naku La area).
www.timesnownews.com
India
The Indian Army has reportedly rushed in troops in fighting formations to forward posts in Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh to prevent the possibility of any misadventure by China.
An Indian Army soldier stands guard along the LAC. | Photo Credit: PTI
KEY HIGHLIGHTS
- In Uttarakhand, supplementary troops have been deployed in Harsil-Barahoti-Nelang Valley
- Reports claimed that Chinese choppers had hovered around before the build-up and Chinese foot soldiers have been spotted patrolling the area
“The Chinese army has done military build-up not only just in Ladakh but also in other sectors including Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh wherever it shares borders with us. The build-up includes troops and heavy weaponry which are deployed in rear positions,” news agency ANI quoted government sources as saying.
The sources further stated that the Indian Army too rushed its troops in fighting formations to the forward posts in the aforementioned sectors to prevent the possibility of any misadventure by China.
RELATED NEWS
India, China to continue military talks to discuss eastern Ladakh dispute
India, China hold Major General-level talks as discussions continue on Eastern Ladakh standoff
The Chinese have walked in and taken our territory in Ladakh; PM Modi absolutely silent: Rahul Gandhi
“The reserve brigades of a Corps with an area of responsibility including Himachal Pradesh have gone up to the Ladakh sector to provide backup and cushion to the 3 Infantry Division based in Karu there. Additional fighting formations have also been moved forward to the border locations in Himachal Pradesh where Chinese choppers had shown up in April,” the report claimed.
In Uttarakhand, supplementary troops have been deployed in Harsil-Barahoti-Nelang Valley and nearby sectors after reports claimed that Chinese choppers had hovered around before the build-up and Chinese foot soldiers have been spotted patrolling the area.
India and China have been at loggerheads for over a month now ever since the Chinese People’s Liberation Army began building up along the LAC in the first week of May near Ladakh and Sikkim (Naku La area).
Report claims Chinese Army build-up along border from Ladakh to Arunachal; India beefs up deployment
The Indian Army has reportedly rushed in troops in fighting formations to forward posts in Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh to prevent the possibility of any misadventure by China.
www.timesnownews.com
jward
passin' thru
Shiv Aroor
@ShivAroor
1h
BIG BREAKING: Indian Army Colonel (Commanding Officer of an infantry battalion) and 2 Army jawans killed in action during a clash with Chinese troops at one of the standoff points in the Galwan Valley, Ladakh. Details awaited.
View: https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/1272800437381607425?s=20
***********************************
Uzair Hasan Rizvi
@RizviUzair
Breaking: Statement from China Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said Indian troops crossed the border line twice on Monday, "provoking and attacking Chinese personnel, resulting in serious physical confrontation between border forces on the two sides"
@AFP
3:04 AM · Jun 16, 2020·Twitter Web App
*****************************************
Reuters India
@ReutersIndia
·
22s
Indian army says one officer, two soldiers killed in 'violent faceoff' on border with China https://reut.rs/2CfgMYZ
****************************************
Top News
June 16, 2020 / 2:49 AM / Updated 29 minutes ago
Indian army says one officer, two soldiers killed in 'violent faceoff' on border with China
1 Min Read
NEW DELHI (Reuters) - The Indian army said on Tuesday one of its officers and two soldiers were killed in a “violent faceoff” on the contested border with China.
The army added in a statement senior military officials from both sides were currently meeting to diffuse the situation. The two sides have been locked in a standoff in the western Himalayas for weeks.
Reporting by Devjyot Ghoshal, writing by Alasdair Pal; editing by Sanjeev Miglani
Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.
posted for fair use
in.reuters.com
@ShivAroor
1h
BIG BREAKING: Indian Army Colonel (Commanding Officer of an infantry battalion) and 2 Army jawans killed in action during a clash with Chinese troops at one of the standoff points in the Galwan Valley, Ladakh. Details awaited.
View: https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/1272800437381607425?s=20
***********************************
Uzair Hasan Rizvi
@RizviUzair
Breaking: Statement from China Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said Indian troops crossed the border line twice on Monday, "provoking and attacking Chinese personnel, resulting in serious physical confrontation between border forces on the two sides"
@AFP
3:04 AM · Jun 16, 2020·Twitter Web App
*****************************************
Reuters India
@ReutersIndia
·
22s
Indian army says one officer, two soldiers killed in 'violent faceoff' on border with China https://reut.rs/2CfgMYZ
****************************************
Top News
June 16, 2020 / 2:49 AM / Updated 29 minutes ago
Indian army says one officer, two soldiers killed in 'violent faceoff' on border with China
1 Min Read
NEW DELHI (Reuters) - The Indian army said on Tuesday one of its officers and two soldiers were killed in a “violent faceoff” on the contested border with China.
The army added in a statement senior military officials from both sides were currently meeting to diffuse the situation. The two sides have been locked in a standoff in the western Himalayas for weeks.
Reporting by Devjyot Ghoshal, writing by Alasdair Pal; editing by Sanjeev Miglani
Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.
posted for fair use
Reuters | Breaking International News & Views
Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.
in.reuters.com
Last edited:
danielboon
TB Fanatic
Go to sleep for a couple of hours and all hell breaks loose
jward
passin' thru
I was yelling at you to wake up and get back here! definitely feeling like more of the circus rings have started their shows
jward
passin' thru
FJ
@Natsecjeff
So, about Chinese casualties, to sum up: - Credible Indian sources say there were Chinese casualties (they put the number at 3-4 but also say it's unconfirmed). - Chinese GT also hinting there are Chinese casualties. - What we don't know for sure? How many dead & wounded.
4:28 AM · Jun 16, 2020
@Natsecjeff
So, about Chinese casualties, to sum up: - Credible Indian sources say there were Chinese casualties (they put the number at 3-4 but also say it's unconfirmed). - Chinese GT also hinting there are Chinese casualties. - What we don't know for sure? How many dead & wounded.
4:28 AM · Jun 16, 2020
They had a "plan" when they invaded Vietnam back in 1979 too.....
Posted for fair use.....
apnews.com
India says 3 soldiers killed in standoff with Chinese troops
By AIJAZ HUSSAIN
27 minutes ago
SRINAGAR, India (AP) — At least three Indian soldiers, including a senior army officer, were killed in a confrontation with Chinese troops along their disputed border high in the Himalayas where thousands of soldiers on both sides have been facing off for over a month, the Indian army said Tuesday.
The incident — in which neither side fired any shots, according to Indian officials — is the first deadly confrontation between the two Asian giants since 1975.
The Indian army said in a statement that a “violent faceoff” took place in Galwan Valley in the Ladakh region on Monday night, “with casualties on both sides.”
“The loss of lives on the Indian side includes an officer and two soldiers,” the statement said. “Senior military officials of the two sides are currently meeting at the venue to defuse the situation.”
China, for its part, accused Indian forces along the border of carrying out “provocative attacks” on its troops, leading to “serious physical conflicts” between the sides.
Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian gave no details on any casualties on the Chinese side, but said Tuesday that China had strongly protested the incident while still being committed to maintaining “peace and tranquility” along the disputed and heavily militarized border.
“But what is shocking is that on June 15, the Indian troops seriously violated the consensus of the two sides, crossed the border illegally twice and carried out provocative attacks on Chinese personnel, resulting in serious physical conflicts between the two border forces,” Zhao said.
Thousands of soldiers from the two countries, backed by armored trucks and artillery, have been facing off just a few hundred meters (yards) apart for more than a month in the Ladakh region near Tibet. Army officers and diplomats have held a series of meetings to try to end the impasse, with no breakthrough.
Indian authorities have officially maintained near-total silence on the issues related to the confrontation, and it was not immediately clear how the three Indian soldiers died.
But two Indian security officials familiar with latest developments told The Associated Press that soldiers from the two sides engaged in fistfights and stone-throwing, which led to the casualties. Both maintained that no shots were fired by either side. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity in keeping with government regulations.
The tense standoff started in early May, when Indian officials said that Chinese soldiers crossed the boundary in Ladakh at three different points, erecting tents and guard posts and ignoring verbal warnings to leave. That triggered shouting matches, stone-throwing and fistfights, much of it replayed on television news channels and social media.
China has sought to downplay the confrontation while saying the two sides were communicating through both their front-line military units and their respective embassies to resolve issues.
The disputed border covers nearly 3,500 kilometers (2,175 miles) of frontier that the two countries call the Line of Actual Control.
Though skirmishes aren’t new along the disputed frontier, the standoff at Ladakh’s Galwan Valley, where India is building a strategic road connecting the region to an airstrip close to China, has escalated in recent weeks.
India and China fought a border war in 1962 that also spilled into Ladakh. The two countries have been trying to settle their border dispute since the early 1990s without success.
Since then, soldiers from the two sides have frequently faced off along their long frontier that stretches from Ladakh in the north to the Indian state of Sikkim in the northeast.
The Indian army statement said the “violent faceoff” occurred “during the deescalation process underway in the Galwan Valley.”
India: 20 troops killed in Himalayas clash with Chinese army
SRINAGAR, India (AP) — A clash high in the Himalayas between the world’s two most populated countries claimed the lives of 20 Indian soldiers in a border region that the two nuclear armed neighbors have disputed for decades, Indian officials said Tuesday.
apnews.com
India says 3 soldiers killed in standoff with Chinese troops
By AIJAZ HUSSAIN
27 minutes ago
SRINAGAR, India (AP) — At least three Indian soldiers, including a senior army officer, were killed in a confrontation with Chinese troops along their disputed border high in the Himalayas where thousands of soldiers on both sides have been facing off for over a month, the Indian army said Tuesday.
The incident — in which neither side fired any shots, according to Indian officials — is the first deadly confrontation between the two Asian giants since 1975.
The Indian army said in a statement that a “violent faceoff” took place in Galwan Valley in the Ladakh region on Monday night, “with casualties on both sides.”
“The loss of lives on the Indian side includes an officer and two soldiers,” the statement said. “Senior military officials of the two sides are currently meeting at the venue to defuse the situation.”
China, for its part, accused Indian forces along the border of carrying out “provocative attacks” on its troops, leading to “serious physical conflicts” between the sides.
Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian gave no details on any casualties on the Chinese side, but said Tuesday that China had strongly protested the incident while still being committed to maintaining “peace and tranquility” along the disputed and heavily militarized border.
“But what is shocking is that on June 15, the Indian troops seriously violated the consensus of the two sides, crossed the border illegally twice and carried out provocative attacks on Chinese personnel, resulting in serious physical conflicts between the two border forces,” Zhao said.
Thousands of soldiers from the two countries, backed by armored trucks and artillery, have been facing off just a few hundred meters (yards) apart for more than a month in the Ladakh region near Tibet. Army officers and diplomats have held a series of meetings to try to end the impasse, with no breakthrough.
Indian authorities have officially maintained near-total silence on the issues related to the confrontation, and it was not immediately clear how the three Indian soldiers died.
But two Indian security officials familiar with latest developments told The Associated Press that soldiers from the two sides engaged in fistfights and stone-throwing, which led to the casualties. Both maintained that no shots were fired by either side. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity in keeping with government regulations.
The tense standoff started in early May, when Indian officials said that Chinese soldiers crossed the boundary in Ladakh at three different points, erecting tents and guard posts and ignoring verbal warnings to leave. That triggered shouting matches, stone-throwing and fistfights, much of it replayed on television news channels and social media.
China has sought to downplay the confrontation while saying the two sides were communicating through both their front-line military units and their respective embassies to resolve issues.
The disputed border covers nearly 3,500 kilometers (2,175 miles) of frontier that the two countries call the Line of Actual Control.
Though skirmishes aren’t new along the disputed frontier, the standoff at Ladakh’s Galwan Valley, where India is building a strategic road connecting the region to an airstrip close to China, has escalated in recent weeks.
India and China fought a border war in 1962 that also spilled into Ladakh. The two countries have been trying to settle their border dispute since the early 1990s without success.
Since then, soldiers from the two sides have frequently faced off along their long frontier that stretches from Ladakh in the north to the Indian state of Sikkim in the northeast.
The Indian army statement said the “violent faceoff” occurred “during the deescalation process underway in the Galwan Valley.”
jward
passin' thru
have also seen reports of Chinese casualties 
Ajai Shukla
@ajaishukla
Now hearing that the casualty count on the Indian side is significantly higher than what the initial reports stated. Also, many Indian soldiers captured and then released, an Indian major still held by the Chinese.
************************************
R.K.O. Shai
@ayazshail
31m
Replying to
@ajaishukla
Indian troops crossed the border for illegal activities and launched provocative attacks against Chinese personnel, and the Chinese side has lodged a strong protest and solemn representation, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said on Tuesday.
View: https://twitter.com/ayazshail/status/1272829657344126980?s=20
Ajai Shukla
@ajaishukla
Now hearing that the casualty count on the Indian side is significantly higher than what the initial reports stated. Also, many Indian soldiers captured and then released, an Indian major still held by the Chinese.
************************************
R.K.O. Shai
@ayazshail
31m
Replying to
@ajaishukla
Indian troops crossed the border for illegal activities and launched provocative attacks against Chinese personnel, and the Chinese side has lodged a strong protest and solemn representation, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said on Tuesday.
View: https://twitter.com/ayazshail/status/1272829657344126980?s=20
The key to this is "the border". Apparently, Chinese troops are about 1km beyond the old Line Of Actual Control currently, so anything China says about "crossing the border" should be taken with a large chunk of Himalayan pink salt. That this latest scuffle took place I do not doubt, but where it took place is far less certain.
And that doesn't even get into what the troops on both sides are being told by their command chains.....
Silverfox
TWTFS
But only manpower to carry it out. Now they have a fully developed nuclear power response. So much for a peaceful rise.
Funny, prior to sleep last night it occurred to me the Norks thing, may be connected to the India thing in that, both S. Korea and India represent a potential big loss of business to the ChiComm manufacturing sector. Perhaps we'll suddenly see border issues in both cases destroying manufacturing capacity so as to keep China viable after the WuFlu thing.
I also find it interesting the, unrestricted war aspect of using civilian transport for military actions. Got Lusitania?
...Meanwhile, the US and Britain are knee deep in negro.
jward
passin' thru
I always assumed in situations like this that the defacto border would be x amount of miles between country A & country Bs forces, on a given day, for the practical purpose of not stoking tension or engagement
... shrug ... Jane posted a latest & greatest map showing the "border" claimed most recently, but I've not found it yet
... shrug ... Jane posted a latest & greatest map showing the "border" claimed most recently, but I've not found it yet
Right now the distance between those troops is measured in feet, not miles. And the Chinese troops are already more than half a mile into what is generally recognized as Indian territory.
jward
passin' thru
Guess territory , like a republic, goes to whomever can keep it~
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Global: MilitaryInfo
@Global_Mil_Info
40m
NEW: The Chinese military have issued a demand to India: "halt all infringements and provocations against China."
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ch0riz0s
@ch0riz0s1
Replying to
@Global_Mil_Info
it looks like all bark no bite. this will change perception on xi jinping and china. they are actually militarily weak. 3 aircraft carriers of us navy in the indo-pacific by the way.
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Global: MilitaryInfo
@Global_Mil_Info
40m
NEW: The Chinese military have issued a demand to India: "halt all infringements and provocations against China."
***********************
ch0riz0s
@ch0riz0s1
Replying to
@Global_Mil_Info
it looks like all bark no bite. this will change perception on xi jinping and china. they are actually militarily weak. 3 aircraft carriers of us navy in the indo-pacific by the way.
Both nations have had troops in that sort of environment for decades, so they're well-acclimated. India maintains a continuous permanent presence at the highest battlefield in the world at more than 20,000 ft altitude (Siachen Glacier); my wife's uncle was stationed there as a Paracommando. Further, India does have a military helicopter specifically designed to operate at that altitude, as well as a number of C-130 Herkybirds, and I have every reason to believe China has aircraft with similar performance characteristics.
TheSearcher
Are you sure about that?
Yep. Between that and the Norks blowing up the border meeting site and threatening to enter the DMZ, it's a helluva way to wake up.
jward
passin' thru
Why the remote Galwan Valley is a flashpoint between India and China
Galwan Valley lies along the western sector of the Line of Actual Control, and close to Aksai Chin, an Indian territory under Beijing’s control.
Snehesh Alex Philip 16 June, 2020 7:36 pm IST
File image of Indian soldiers in Ladakh | By special arrangement
Text Size:
New Delhi: The face-off Monday night between the Indian and Chinese armies marked the first instance of violence at Galwan Valley in Ladakh since the 1962 war.
The valley lies along the western sector of the India-China border, the Line of Actual Control (LAC), and close to Aksai Chin, an Indian territory under Beijing’s control. Its location thus lends it deep strategic importance along a sector of the border that remains largely undefined.
The valley derives its name from the river Galwan, which is named after Ghulam Rassul, a British-era explorer from Leh. The river flows from the Aksai Chin region.
The river is to the west of China’s 1956 claim line in Aksai Chin. However, in 1960, China advanced its claim line and managed to capture it fully during the 1962 war.
Since then, both sides have maintained peace and the 1960 claim line is considered as the de facto Line of Actual Control (LAC) in this valley. Even so, no maps have been exchanged in this area and all understanding between the forces is established at a local level.
Also Read: Why the serene Pangong lake lies at the heart of India-China border dispute in Ladakh
China’s suspicions
The Galwan Valley area comes under Sub Sector North (SSN), which lies just to the east of the Siachen glacier and is the only point that provides direct access to Aksai Chin from India.
As reported by ThePrint, the current tensions can be traced to Chinese objections over India’s road construction activities here. China is believed to be particularly concerned about a bridge that India is building across the Galwan nallah.
The bridge is part of a network of feeder roads that India is building connecting the strategically important Shyok-Daulat Beg Oldi road, inaugurated by Defence Minister Rajnath Singh last year.
Defence sources have told ThePrint that, even though the bridge is about 7.5 km from the LAC, the Chinese have objected because they are suspicious of India’s aims on account of New Delhi’s claim over Aksai Chin.
Analysts say China is suspicious that the Indian constructions in the area are meant to facilitate quick movement of soldiers if any attempt is made to recapture Aksai Chin.
‘Status quo ante 1950’
Aksai Chin was captured by China in 1962. According to Lt Gen. H.S. Panag (Retd), from the strategic point of view, China had secured all Indian territories it needed to before 1962, that is primarily Aksai Chin, required for the Tibet-Xinjiang NH 219.
Following the 1962 war, it vacated all additional captured territory, barring some tactically important areas in Ladakh, denying access to Aksai Chin and NH 219 as per its 1960 claim line in Depsang, Galwan River, Sirijap-Khurnak Fort north of Pangong Tso, and Kailash Range 10 km north of Demchok, he said.
China, he added, believes that, India’s strategic aim in the long term is to restore the status quo ante 1950 by recovering Aksai Chin and other areas captured/secured by China.
India’s alignment with the US, the presence of Tibetan government-in-exile in India, and the aggressive claims on Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) and Gilgit Baltistan — through which the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) passes — only strengthen China’s suspicion.
Also Read: 3 Indian soldiers including CO killed in Ladakh in first violent clash with China in 45 yrs
posted for fair use
theprint.in
Galwan Valley lies along the western sector of the Line of Actual Control, and close to Aksai Chin, an Indian territory under Beijing’s control.
Snehesh Alex Philip 16 June, 2020 7:36 pm IST
Text Size:
New Delhi: The face-off Monday night between the Indian and Chinese armies marked the first instance of violence at Galwan Valley in Ladakh since the 1962 war.
The valley lies along the western sector of the India-China border, the Line of Actual Control (LAC), and close to Aksai Chin, an Indian territory under Beijing’s control. Its location thus lends it deep strategic importance along a sector of the border that remains largely undefined.
The valley derives its name from the river Galwan, which is named after Ghulam Rassul, a British-era explorer from Leh. The river flows from the Aksai Chin region.
The river is to the west of China’s 1956 claim line in Aksai Chin. However, in 1960, China advanced its claim line and managed to capture it fully during the 1962 war.
Since then, both sides have maintained peace and the 1960 claim line is considered as the de facto Line of Actual Control (LAC) in this valley. Even so, no maps have been exchanged in this area and all understanding between the forces is established at a local level.
Also Read: Why the serene Pangong lake lies at the heart of India-China border dispute in Ladakh
China’s suspicions
The Galwan Valley area comes under Sub Sector North (SSN), which lies just to the east of the Siachen glacier and is the only point that provides direct access to Aksai Chin from India.
As reported by ThePrint, the current tensions can be traced to Chinese objections over India’s road construction activities here. China is believed to be particularly concerned about a bridge that India is building across the Galwan nallah.
The bridge is part of a network of feeder roads that India is building connecting the strategically important Shyok-Daulat Beg Oldi road, inaugurated by Defence Minister Rajnath Singh last year.
Defence sources have told ThePrint that, even though the bridge is about 7.5 km from the LAC, the Chinese have objected because they are suspicious of India’s aims on account of New Delhi’s claim over Aksai Chin.
Analysts say China is suspicious that the Indian constructions in the area are meant to facilitate quick movement of soldiers if any attempt is made to recapture Aksai Chin.
‘Status quo ante 1950’
Aksai Chin was captured by China in 1962. According to Lt Gen. H.S. Panag (Retd), from the strategic point of view, China had secured all Indian territories it needed to before 1962, that is primarily Aksai Chin, required for the Tibet-Xinjiang NH 219.
Following the 1962 war, it vacated all additional captured territory, barring some tactically important areas in Ladakh, denying access to Aksai Chin and NH 219 as per its 1960 claim line in Depsang, Galwan River, Sirijap-Khurnak Fort north of Pangong Tso, and Kailash Range 10 km north of Demchok, he said.
China, he added, believes that, India’s strategic aim in the long term is to restore the status quo ante 1950 by recovering Aksai Chin and other areas captured/secured by China.
India’s alignment with the US, the presence of Tibetan government-in-exile in India, and the aggressive claims on Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) and Gilgit Baltistan — through which the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) passes — only strengthen China’s suspicion.
Also Read: 3 Indian soldiers including CO killed in Ladakh in first violent clash with China in 45 yrs
posted for fair use
Why the remote Galwan Valley is a flashpoint between India and China
Galwan Valley lies along the western sector of the Line of Actual Control, and close to Aksai Chin, an Indian territory under Beijing’s control.
theprint.in
northern watch
TB Fanatic
northern watch
TB Fanatic
northern watch
TB Fanatic
danielboon
TB Fanatic
Global: MilitaryInfo
@Global_Mil_Info
·
3h
According to the Indian army, there were also Chinese casualties, but the total number is unknown.
Quote Tweet
Global: MilitaryInfo
@Global_Mil_Info
· 3h
#BREAKING: Three Indian soldiers were killed in hand-to-hand clashes in the Galwan Valley in Ladakh last night by Chinese troops.
@Global_Mil_Info
·
3h
According to the Indian army, there were also Chinese casualties, but the total number is unknown.
Quote Tweet
Global: MilitaryInfo
@Global_Mil_Info
· 3h
#BREAKING: Three Indian soldiers were killed in hand-to-hand clashes in the Galwan Valley in Ladakh last night by Chinese troops.
danielboon
TB Fanatic
Global: MilitaryInfo
@Global_Mil_Info
·
3h
NEW: The Chinese military have issued a demand to India: "halt all infringements and provocations against China."
@Global_Mil_Info
·
3h
NEW: The Chinese military have issued a demand to India: "halt all infringements and provocations against China."
TheSearcher
Are you sure about that?
Global: MilitaryInfo
@Global_Mil_Info
·
3h
According to the Indian army, there were also Chinese casualties, but the total number is unknown.
Quote Tweet
Global: MilitaryInfo
@Global_Mil_Info
· 3h
#BREAKING: Three Indian soldiers were killed in hand-to-hand clashes in the Galwan Valley in Ladakh last night by Chinese troops.
Hand to hand? Kung fu fighting, fast as lightning, expert timing? Wow.
Melodi
Disaster Cat
It means it is time to re-read The Guns of August...
jward
passin' thru
Well we just put those 3 aircraft carriers into the indo-pacific, so whatever it is we do with those must be the message being sent to China. Korea can blow up all the empty buildings it wants, I think... So far she's carefully telegraphing her moves and none seem too alarming. :: shrug ::
Global: MilitaryInfo
@Global_Mil_Info
15m
NEW: India Today and Times of India are reporting that 20 Indian soldiers were killed in the violent stand-off between Chinese and Indian forces on the LAC at the Himalayan frontier.
Global: MilitaryInfo
@Global_Mil_Info
15m
NEW: India Today and Times of India are reporting that 20 Indian soldiers were killed in the violent stand-off between Chinese and Indian forces on the LAC at the Himalayan frontier.