[OT] POLL - One bedroom or two?

Another thought.......Bev has either come here to get help on a problem, or to gain validity on a position that she already knew that she would take......I have no judgement on that. But, if Bev were to be honest, she would have to agree that she has compromised a position that she led us all to believe that she held......or maybe, according to Bev, her husband held!








A

I think...

Bev is screwing up, personally.

Your house, your rules.
You mentioned in an earlier post, you were paying for the plane tickets.
If they don't like your rules, tell them to rent a car and a motel room.
DuffyO

Re: Update...

bev said:

DH and I talked this afternoon and basically decided to believe our son (that they are not intimate) and allow them to share a room while they're here. Yes, I do feel I/we are compromising our values to an extent, but we did not want to take the chance that they would decide not to come at all. In an ideal world, he would have decided (with his girlfriend) that they would abide by our wishes.

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Susan48, I admitted above that we compromised our values, TO AN EXTENT. DH and I believe that sex is to be reserved for marriage. Son insists he and girlfriend feel the same; DH and I have chosen to believe him. So we have taken a stand. DH and I don't know of anywhere in the Bible that discusses whether a couple should be allowed to sleep in the same bed without having sex, so we had to make a judgment. Whether they will still come, I don't know yet.

Minnesota Smith, I knew this was coming. Maybe I am screwing up, only God knows for sure. DH and I have prayed about this and made our decision. If it turns out to have been the wrong one, then we'll have to deal with it.

Be at peace, Bev. How could choosing to love, trust and connect with your son as an adult be "screwing up?"

Because you have given him the respect he wanted I suspect he will respond in kind when they arrive.

If not, at least he will be present to have a discussion with.

Given the compromise you have made, if gf continues to balk I will believe, then, that it really is a control issue for her. That is another situation to deal with, entirely.

Linttrap

Re: Update...

bev said:

Well, our son said that his girlfriend apparently still has some "issues" regarding whether to come or not come.

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It sounds like the girlfriend had issues before this came up, and was looking for something to focus on.

It seems based on what you've said she's going to have "issues" no matter what you do or say. . .

Knowing that, you can adjust you mind-set to deal with it as it arises and have a good time with your son in spite of her.

Your son's the one who's going to get the brunt of his girlfriends bitching anyway, so be prepared for a little "runoff" from him.

Edited to Add: Enjoy the holidays with your family Bev, time is short. . .

BugoutBear

Linttrap...

"How could choosing to love, trust and connect with your son as an adult be "screwing up?"'

Because "choosing to love, trust and connect with your son" is not remotely incompatible with deciding basic policies in one's own house. It's her house, not her son's shack-up's house. Bev pays the rent, and makes the rules there. You've heard of the REAL Golden Rule? "He who has the gold makes the rules." The son's GF can make whatever rules she wants in dwellings she controls. She can leave her attitude, and her expectations about being treated as something she is not (married) at home. She will be a guest, and should act as one, and a guest takes a host's lead on accomodation details.

Hey BugoutBear and Minnesotra Smith!

You really turned my opinion on this one.

Right on! both of you. They are guests, no matter what the AGE or circumstances.

But also, remember that we are not living in the age where the values that the previous generation had are acceptable.

and now sort of off topic...

I think the same would apply if they sat down to Christmas dinner. If she's was a vegan, it would "nice" of Bev to make a little something special for her, but not required (maybe if she knew)

The GF could eat everything but turkey. So right about being guests in someone's house, regardless of the age. Would you expect your Mom and Dad to live by their rules or your rules when they came to your house?

Hmmmm maybe I stumbled on something here? Do we put up, or accept our family and how they live in their domain when they visit ours?

BigNg said:

Hey BugoutBear and Minnesotra Smith!

and now sort of off topic...

I think the same would apply if they sat down to Christmas dinner. If she's was a vegan, it would "nice" of Bev to make a little something special for her, but not required (maybe if she knew)

The GF could eat everything but turkey. So right about being guests in someone's house, regardless of the age. Would you expect your Mom and Dad to live by their rules or your rules when they came to your house?

Hmmmm maybe I stumbled on something here? Do we put up, or accept our family and how they live in their domain when they visit ours?

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Big Ng - As a matter of fact, they are both vegan! And I am planning on preparing appropriate food for them while they're here, and having items on hand that they can prepare as well. Assuming, of course, that they decide to come.

Seems like you really are going out of your way for them Bev, they will see your kindness and generosity, and how much you want to make them feel welcome.

(maybe enough to shame them into staying in separate rooms, for your sake?

DO let us know what happens......

Real kindness to your offspring...

would IMO be to set a good example with policy-setting in your house, even if it is awkward or inconvenient. Two rooms, no waffling.

bev, ask your son this question:
if they invited an old friend to spend a few days with them, and this friend told them he was accustomed to doing everything in the nude, would they allow him to practice his nudity in their apartment? what if that included answering the door naked, speaking with the neighbors naked, or standing in front of an open window(visible to the neighborhood) naked? if they'd have a problem with this activity, why couldn't they understand YOU having a problem with THEIR activity. btw, intimacy is a moot point, your rule wasn't that they shouldn't have sex (that is a given), your rule was they didn't share a bedroom, period.

as to whether an unmarried couple can sleep in the same bed, i believe they can as long as no sexual contact occurs. that said, i don't believe it's wise to put your son before God sis, and that is what you are doing when you sacrifice your beliefs to accomodate them. scripture says that if you put ANYTHING before God, you're not fit for the kingdom. it also says that the word will turn father against son, so we all have to expect this may happen.

and finally, how much respect do you think your son will have for your beliefs if you push them aside for him? if he looks to you for an example of standing fast in your beliefs no matter what the circumstances (persecution, or simply being riddiculed), what example will he see from this action?

I wasn't going to comment on this one, but changed my mind...

Bev, - you and your DH raised your son with with a certain set of values, no? As a Christian, to compromise those values would not be helping your son IMHO.

Even if he *is* living a celibate life in Chicago with his significant other, he really shouldn't be putting you through the worry of wondering what he and she are up to in your family home. Wouldn't you be all the time wondering if you put your son's wants before GOD'S Commandments?

I know what you are going through, because I've been there, and in fact am STILL there.

We have two daughters (both in their mid-twenties) who have been living with their respective "significant others" for several years now. We have *never* permitted them to sleep in the same bedroom in our home, and never will unless and until they are married.

This came up recently actually, and our eldest daughter was complaining that her SO "wouldn't commit," and she really wants to marry him and have children before she gets too much older.

So, I put on my "mommy" hat, sat her down and told her that *nobody* bothers to buy a cow when they are getting the milk for free! I didn't really think that would change anything, since she's been living with her SO for a couple of years now, in his parent's (otherwise Christian) house.

However, a couple of days after our talk, my daughter called home and told me/us that she had moved into her own bedroom in his parents house (they offered), and is now paying $300 a month in rent plus paying for her own food etc. No more sleeping together, until they are married, period.

Her SO has since told her he'd be "honored to have her as his wife," and they plan to get married in about six months. I don't see a ring yet, so I'm still in a "wait and see" mode on that one, but at LEAST our daughter is moving in the right direction. (Thank You LORD!)

My point in telling you this, is to say that by sticking to your guns (beliefs) and *not* compromising, you may just be helping your son *and* his SO more than you think.

Every situation is unique of course, and I don't presume to tell you what you should do with your own son. I *do* feel strongly that it's important *never* to put family before GOD though Bev. There are family members I have lost because of my stance as a Christian, - most of my relatives in fact. It isn't easy, but then Jesus told us this could happen, didn't He...

May GOD grant you the courage and the peace to do what you understand to be the right thing to do, - no matter *what* it costs you.

I say this with all the love in my heart Bev. May GOD be with you all.

Dee.

Bev, it sounds to me as if this girl is running the show. If you don't do things her way, she'll keep him from coming, or let him go alone, or maybe not at all. If she has issues now, she's gonna have issues forever. She's selfish, bottom line. I feel sorry for you and your son, both.

Re: BN...

MinnesotaSmith said:

"When does it become acceptable?"

When they marry, or sleep elsewhere. If I was 90, and had 65-YO children who brought boy/girlfriends/fiances/whatever with them on a visit, I'd still expect them to be married, sleep in separate rooms, or to sleep in someone else's dwelling.

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You are totally right.

I wonder if you and DH stayed at your son's place, now they would expect YOU to sleep in seperate bedrooms?

You get to make the rules in your own house. If they get married and you want them to have separate bedrooms anyway, then they get separate bedrooms. Your house, your rules.

If they don't like your rules, they don't need to visit. And of course, it's their rules when YOU visit.

Re: Linttrap...

MinnesotaSmith said:

"How could choosing to love, trust and connect with your son as an adult be "screwing up?"'

Because "choosing to love, trust and connect with your son" is not remotely incompatible with deciding basic policies in one's own house. It's her house, not her son's shack-up's house. Bev pays the rent, and makes the rules there. You've heard of the REAL Golden Rule? "He who has the gold makes the rules." The son's GF can make whatever rules she wants in dwellings she controls. She can leave her attitude, and her expectations about being treated as something she is not (married) at home. She will be a guest, and should act as one, and a guest takes a host's lead on accomodation details.

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Oh my gosh!! I would never have believed how much I agree with MS on this one over and over again!!! Who would have thought?!!!!!

Well, Imagine...

I've made no secret that I believe celibacy outside of marriage is the best policy. Likewise, noone should feel under compulsion to "enable" behavior they don't approve of; if anything, the reverse. Glad you liked the way I put my judgements on this situation.
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Oh, and Flint, you are being preposterous. You are perfectly aware that societal norms are that marrieds can sleep in the same room when they are guests in someone else's home. You might as well have said that Bev would have been within her rights to insist that they join her on Saturday nights in worshiping her death by bloody animal sacrifice; it would have been as useful a comment (that is, not at all).

Smith:

Obviously you wear the skirt and not the pants in your house. "Gee, I can't make the rules in my own castle, what if they don't match <i>societal norms?</i>

Sorry, inside your door societal norms apply only as far as you can't overcome them. If you require your guests to join you in animal sacrifices, this is your right. Of course, you probably won't have many guests. But it's YOUR house. Get some pants!

Flint...

try making a point instead of a flame. Other than your insults, there was not one clear bit of substance in your last post. So, do you believe that Bev has the right to insist upon 2 BR for her unmarried visitors, or not?

Smith:

Having reading comprehension problems?

It's her house. She gets to make the rules. If her potential guests don't like her rules, then they don't visit.

Personally, I'd be indifferent to how many bedrooms they'd prefer, but if Bev cares, that's what counts. For myself, I'd prohibit chain smokers from smoking inside my house, because I'd find the atmosphere a little too tempting...

So I'll keep making the same point with every post until you can find it. It's Bev's house, guests follow her rules or don't visit. That's pretty damn simple, and that's all there is to it.

Rude or not, NO ONE is allowed to smaoke in my house or car!!!

got to agree with flint on this one (but i also agree with MS...funny, huh?). what if societal views were that it's GOOD for unmarried people to share a bedroom...would bev then have to change her views to accomodate society? not!

Continuing...

As I posted on the duplicate thread on this question:

"Marriage is how people demonstrate a commitment publicly. Unmarrieds have made no public commitment, and you have to go by what they have made public (which for unmarrieds is officially zip). Sleeping together in households other than their own (or some peer friends') houses is a priviledge that comes with being married. Unmarrieds sleep apart in relatives' homes."

7 replies should just about do it wont it MS?

I think Bev got the point.

And yes I did go back and count your posts on this.

As the famous helen of TB2K said in another thread,let it go MS.

Timbo...

I'm making different points in each post. Do you think that people should be limited by the system to only be able to post once on each thread?

CforI:

Yes, societal values are a smokescreen. Within Bev's house, it's <i>Bev's</i> values that matter. It's HER house. It's not society.

Thank you everyone for your posts - please keep them coming! DH and I are enjoying reading everyone's opinions and experiences. We learn a little with every post.

DH and I have prepared two bedrooms. All decked out with Christmas decorations and everything! Based on what our son said the other night, about them being more comfortable in separate beds, we are planning on them using both rooms. Funny how this has evolved.

I'm wondering now whether the real issue (for us) was really one or two bedrooms, or the thought of them possibly having sex in our house? I'm thinking it was the latter. When he told us that they were committed to celibacy before marriage, we agreed to them sharing a room. Now that things have changed a bit, to where they'll be in separate rooms, we are quite happy.

We all need to have principles and stand by them. But DH and I have never had a situation like this come up before now. It really threw us! We did a lot of soul-searching and praying, sat on the fence for a while, read all your posts, then came to a decision. Maybe it was the wrong one, but we feel like it has turned out well. I'm sure God has His hand in this too! We'll be having some in-depth conversations with our son (and his girlfriend) during their visit, about this and other issues.

The important thing, I think, the real BOTTOM LINE is that they know we're trying really hard to "walk the walk." I guess we'll get better the longer we try?

Bev: 2 rooms
I'm 26. My thoughts:

A. How long are they going to be there anyway? It shouldn't be such a big deal. it will be what, 3 nights of their lives they would have to sleep apart? I think the girlfriend is trying to make an issue because she doesn't want to come.

B. I think perhaps your son agreed with her because he wants you to trust him. Yes, it is certainly possible that they are not having sex. There is no call for the Christians among us to doubt the fervor of his commitment to God's laws. Maybe you should make it clear it is not a trust thing. Of course, then he'll ask why it matters. Tell him it's because we have always tried to do what is right, and in this instance, two rooms is right. Does he have other brothers, sisters, cousins, etc., that might get the wrong impression? Friends, even, that may see, just as all those on here have, and think he is not holding on to his convictions.And make note of what I mentioned above as well.

I think for me the most important thing I would show him if he were my son would be the responses on here. My mother has always told us girls to "Be, but also seem." You must present to people an accurate picture of the life you feel you lead. These people sincerely believe that your son and his girlfriend are having sex. I believe as Christians, it DOES matter what other people think. They may be BEING good, but they SEEM to be breaking God's laws. And their friends probably feel that way too, in their hearts -- they probably belive more is going on, even if it's not. That hinders their ability to witness. If he is serious in his commitment to Christ, I would say he needs to show it in his lifestyle.

And at the very least, he can show it among his family that loves him.

Newsgirl

P.S. -- I'm not trying to say I always live up to that myself -- I have made my own mistakes, but it is still something I try hard to put into practice -- as hard as I can. And it is good advice from my mother, who is wonderful.

I think for me the most important thing I would show him if he were my son would be the responses on here. My mother has always told us girls to "Be, but also seem." You must present to people an accurate picture of the life you feel you lead. These people sincerely believe that your son and his girlfriend are having sex. I believe as Christians, it DOES matter what other people think. They may be BEING good, but they SEEM to be breaking God's laws. And their friends probably feel that way too, in their hearts -- they probably belive more is going on, even if it's not. That hinders their ability to witness. If he is serious in his commitment to Christ, I would say he needs to show it in his lifestyle.

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Newsgirl, thanks for your post!

I have thought of having him read all these responses. I have not sent him a link though. Maybe I'll have him read them while he's here.

You are right, of course, that Christians are essentially on display for others to see (and judge). We need to think of how we SEEM to others, how we APPEAR to be. We certainly don't want to be giving the wrong impression, and hindering our witness to others.

My son is NOT serious in his commitment to Christ. He was, about 15 years ago - really on fire for the Lord, then just gradually fell away. He is now "into" Eastern-type philosophies, and does volunteer work at a temple of some kind. I admire the volunteer work, but, as a Christian, I worry that he is being drawn further away from Christ. I'm not sure I buy into the "once saved, always saved" philosophy. I'd like to - I'd feel better! But I'll just keep praying for him.

Does he have other brothers, sisters, cousins, etc., that might get the wrong impression?

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Our other child is 22 and lives with friends from college (locally). She, her boyfriend, and her 2 female roommates (one with boyfriend) will be spending Christmas day with us, so yes, there are others that might get the wrong impression if my son and his girlfriend were to share a room. So that's another reason I'm glad this has worked out the way it has - for two rooms.

My sister has two younger children still at home and said that if my son and his girlfriend were to visit them, she would put them in separate HOUSES!

sis, my understanding of the issue of losing salvation is, you can't lose it through works, just as works won't save you to begin with. you can however CHOOSE to leave God, and thereby give it up of your own free will. God gives us all the freedom to choose, and unfortunately some choose wrong. so no, once saved always saved is not true, but you still can't lose it by "being bad" only.

The relationship with this present girlfriend might end. You are setting a precedent with the decision you make now. Not only for this son, but also for your other children. Is allowing the sharing of a room something you want to keep as a general rule from now on? Look beyond the here and now and realize that you ARE setting a precedent--and your children WILL remember.

peachfuzz

Bev, I haven't read all the responses to your dilema, but according to the poll, and the different responses it looks like 2 bedrooms is the major opinion.

I think part of your worry is that your son may get angry if you don't let him "bed down" with his girlfriend and that it would seem as if you don't "believe" him about not having sex.

He already knows your values, so you don't have to go into it with him, but they do have to be aware that it would, like Peach Fuzz said, "set a precedent" and that for the sake of not having to explain the "platonic" circumtsances to EVERYBODY, it would be best to adhere to the normal, Social and Christian codes of conduct. (Seeing you're from Louisiana and not California, the "Social Norm" is still a big thing, here.)

He and his girlfriend should respect you and your husband's wishes with dignity. If they don't, then oh well, they'll survive.

Put on a smile, show your son where his bags will go, then escort his girlfriend to HER room with some well-placed flowers and gift soaps are displayed. Then, forget about it and ENJOY YOUR CHRISTMAS!!!

I don't understand why your son and his girlfriend ever put you and your husband in such a decision. As they are both adults and are aware of your values and beliefs I am astonded they would think you would be comfortable with them sleeping together unmarried. I think they should have discussed this beforehand and if she had a problem with the seperate rooms then he should have either come alone, not come at all or aquired other sleeping arrangements while they were visiting that would not have compromised your values. I have always known where my family stood on such matters and would never make them compromise to accomodate me and anyone to whom I was not married. I do hope you enjoy Christmas and do not give in to your beliefs for their comfort. It will not kill them to stay apart for a few days. Once you drop the bar on your values there will be others in the future that expect the same treatment. I am still at a loss to understand why they ever put you in such an uncomfortable position in the first place.

Dixie, it is ridiculously clear why. They are "adults" in age only, not in maturity or wisdom.

bev, does your son's eastern religious beliefs lead him to reject the notion of respecting his elders and honoring his parents, because that is exactkt what he is doing. It is irrelevant that he holds different values.

As far as the idea of "trust" about what they are actually doing, well, maybe they aren't having "sex" in the same sense that Clinton and Monica weren't having "sex". I doubt that bev and DH have a no-bedroom policy simply to avoid intercourse. It does at least sound as though maybe they are taking measures to make sure she isn't prematurely pregnant. Timbo, you may be correct, but I think it is very possible that the son has conveniently redefined the situation to pretend to be within the house rules.

bev, I'm so sorry. Your son is incredibly immature. I hope you are able to salvage the relationship nonetheless.