FAIL! (Petitions to Secede)

ivantherussian03 · Nov 13, 2012

I always thinking about these petitions as completely laughable and oxymoronic. Come on ......are the States really asking to secede........no. A few disgruntle people might be, but not the States them selves, that would require to do something official. Anybody can start a petition. These petitions never go any where, they never cause real debate other than their novelty. If a state did "secede" it would require the citizens to actually do something, and something would be considerably more than signing a silly petition. Everybody says Texas has special rights in this regard. Texas may have had special rights in their original 1845 constitution, but I am guessing they lost after the Civil War when a new constitution was written, Hawaii and Alaska don't either. But please keep discussing it......I love reading the bunk house lawyer logic because of the laughable value.

homepark · Nov 13, 2012

As I recall, territorial matters are up to the Fed, according to the Constitution. These petitions send a message. The Civil War started about States rights. Slavery came to the forefront when Lincoln needed the issue, later on.

gawarriorqueen · Nov 13, 2012

Troke said:
The South thought it was over slavery. That has been shown many times on this forum. As for the balance of power, the
South wanted to make sure the Senate stayed with enough slave states to prevent abolitionists from getting creative ideas.. Thus the savage fights over the slave status of new states.

The South fought over states' rights as conferred by the Constitution and guaranteed by the 10th Amendment. Slavery was the catalyst. The war did not become about freeing the slaves until Lincoln's army began having trouble getting volunteers in 1862. The slaughter just to keep the South attached to the union didn't seem worth it to most northerners. Lincoln needed a moral reason for northern men to fight, and so he freed the slaves in January of 1863 and, through obliging preachers spread the word that this was a war deemed justified by God to free the slaves.

What it really boils down to is that all governments, everywhere, derive their power from the consent of the governed. The South no longer consented to government by the folks in DC and seceeded. The fight, before Lincoln's moral decrees, was strictly about a state's right to be self-determining.

NoName · Nov 13, 2012

momof23goats said:
that is correct, s othe states can gete out if they want.
well since Texas has the names now and others are coming in close, and will probably make it, lets see ewhat ole bummer will do now? knowing that people would rather go it alone with out him, that is a huge hello!!!!!!
the senate, should make him stand down , then arrest him, you all pick the charges cause there is a long list. -

Don't care about obozo anymore, I want freedom for Texas, my family and those who would join us in liberty.
ETA (DD now #73,239! )

bethshaya · Nov 13, 2012

SIRR1 said:
It's on Yahoo now, 20 states have filed.

Secession petitions filed in 20 states.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/secission-petitions-filed-20-states-190210006.html

In the wake of last week's presidential election, thousands of Americans have signed petitions seeking permission for their states to peacefully secede from the United States. The petitions were filed on We the People, a government website.

States with citizens filing include Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas. Oddly, folks from Georgia have filed twice. Even stranger, several of the petitions come from states that went for President Barack Obama.

The petitions are short and to the point. For example, a petition from the Volunteer State reads: "Peacefully grant the State of Tennessee to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government." Of all the petitions, Texas has the most signatures so far, with more than 23,000.

Of course, this is mostly a symbolic gesture. The odds of the American government granting any state permission to go its own way are on par with winning the lottery while getting hit by a meteor while seeing Bigfoot while finding gluten-free pizza that tastes like the real thing.

An article from WKRC quotes a University of Louisville political science professor who explained that these petitions aren't uncommon. Similar petitions were filed following the 2004 and 2008 elections. Still, should the petitions garner 25,000 signatures in a month, they will require an official response from the Obama administration.

SIRR1

NY went for Obama, but more specifically, ONLY New York City went for him. The rest of the land mass known as New York State did not. So the city with its minions took over the voice for the rest of the state. If they succeed, it is likely that NYC is "carved out" of that land mass "formerly" known as New York State.

The same happened in New Jersey (NY Metro), Florida (which several cities took over) and Michigan (Detroit).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember something unique about Texas and Lousiana that is different than the rest of the states. Texas specifically. If I remember correctly, they had some kind of provision in their charter when they became a state about succeeding.

bethshaya · Nov 13, 2012

And why would financial problems be a reason to back away from the whole process?

This is crazy.

They could just start issuing their own currency--just like the DC thugs.
What makes DC monopoly/ponzi-scheme money any better than the currency uttered by a state that declared its independence?

Answer: it wouldn't.

Also the independent state could declare a "jubiliee" and that all debts inside that state are washed away--and that they are no longer responsible for any share of DC's national debt problem.

Because once the ties to the FEDERAL government are severed, all financial obligations that the government funded for the citizens would be null and void...no Social Security, no Medical, Welfare, Food Stamps, Government pension etc. The states would now be required to take on these obligations.

Couple that with any loans that the state had taken with the government, would need to be paid in full.

All subsidies that the government funds for schools and localities would also stop. Defense would need to come out of the state coffers. No National Guard, no army, no navy, air force, etc. I think the only state that still funds their own army is Texas. All others signed that right away when they became a state.

The states would now need to come up with the funds to provide for these.

Which means the PEOPLE of that state would then be taxed higher to make up for that deficit.

NoName · Nov 13, 2012

ivantherussian03 said:
I always thinking about these petitions as completely laughable and oxymoronic. Come on ......are the States really asking to secede........no. A few disgruntle people might be, but not the States them selves, that would require to do something official. Anybody can start a petition. These petitions never go any where, they never cause real debate other than their novelty. If a state did "secede" it would require the citizens to actually do something, and something would be considerably more than signing a silly petition. Everybody says Texas has special rights in this regard. Texas may have had special rights in their original 1845 constitution, but I am guessing they lost after the Civil War when a new constitution was written, Hawaii and Alaska don't either. But please keep discussing it......I love reading the bunk house lawyer logic because of the laughable value.

The Texas Constitution (in reguard to those protections) has never changed. Jonas was correct that you don't ask permission, you just do it. But what the petitions are doing is providing a vehicle to motivate like minded folks in a way that in my 15yrs in the movement I have never seen. Texas does have a provisional government in place, and while it may not come to pass in my lifetime, or even my childrens, some day Texas will be free again, my GGgrandchildren will know what I once knew, and I'll be buried in it. That's what this is about.

NoName · Nov 13, 2012

bethshaya said:
Because once the ties to the FEDERAL government are severed, all financial obligations that the government funded for the citizens would be null and void...no Social Security, no Medical, Welfare, Food Stamps, Government pension etc. The states would now be required to take on these obligations.

Couple that with any loans that the state had taken with the government, would need to be paid in full.

All subsidies that the government funds for schools and localities would also stop. Defense would need to come out of the state coffers. No National Guard, no army, no navy, air force, etc. I think the only state that still funds their own army is Texas. All others signed that right away when they became a state.

The states would now need to come up with the funds to provide for these.

Which means the PEOPLE of that state would then be taxed higher to make up for that deficit.

Texas has recently requested that the gold bullion "in safe keeping" in New York, be returned to to the state capitol. It is sufficient enough to begin the states own script issuance. Texas does have a standing state recognized militia in addition to the Texas State Guard (national guard), some of which is currently federalized. The ecconomics of seccession is indeed an entertwined point. In talks with the Provisional President and staff the feeling is that it can be done with a minimum of hardship for Texicans and a considerable hardship for the Washington, DC. We've got a long way to go, I've seen many false starts, more fools and jokers than I care to mention, some remain in prison as a statement to zealots. But perhaps Obozo is in a way our champion. Fervent expectation.

bethshaya · Nov 13, 2012

NoName said:
Texas has recently requested that the gold bullion "in safe keeping" in New York, be returned to to the state capitol. It is sufficient enough to begin the states own script issuance. Texas does have a standing state recognized militia in addition to the Texas State Guard (national guard), some of which is currently federalized. The ecconomics of seccession is indeed an entertwined point. In talks with the Provisional President and staff the feeling is that it can be done with a minimum of hardship for Texicans and a considerable hardship for the Washington, DC. We've got a long way to go, I've seen many false starts, more fools and jokers than I care to mention, some remain in prison as a statement to zealots. But perhaps Obozo is in a way our champion. Fervent expectation.

Yes, because Texas is a unique situation. They were wise enough when they entered into the "contract" with the US Government to put provisions in place and forsee a time in which they might want to back out.

All the other states are not so fortunate. Their dependence is ingrained. While it might be the right move, the people need to know that the decision will not be without GREAT sacrifice on their individual parts. Things will not get "better" for a while and may in fact be worse on an individual scale than if they stayed.

I'm sure the same could have been said for the colonies. The price of freedom needed to be paid, and I'm sure the first generations after that struggled much to make this country what it became.

NoName · Nov 13, 2012

bethshaya said:
Yes, because Texas is a unique situation. They were wise enough when they entered into the "contract" with the US Government to put provisions in place and forsee a time in which they might want to back out.

All the other states are not so fortunate. Their dependence is ingrained. While it might be the right move, the people need to know that the decision will not be without GREAT sacrifice on their individual parts. Things will not get "better" for a while and may in fact be worse on an individual scale than if they stayed.

I'm sure the same could have been said for the colonies. The price of freedom needed to be paid, and I'm sure the first generations after that struggled much to make this country what it became.

Stories of the years following Santa Anna's defeat are grim at best, I can't in any reality expect we would fair any better, but I balance that with the bright future we presently face with Obozo

ETA: Did I mention we have our own power grid? LOL

FAIL! (Petitions to Secede)

ivantherussian03

Veteran Member

homepark

Resist

gawarriorqueen

WWG1WGA

NoName

Veteran Member

bethshaya

God has a plan, Trust it!

bethshaya

God has a plan, Trust it!

NoName

Veteran Member

Attachments

NoName

Veteran Member

bethshaya

God has a plan, Trust it!

NoName

Veteran Member